Can't take it anymore

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by miche, Jul 22, 2008.

  1. miche

    miche New Member

    I have visited here before. About 2 years ago? I starting suspecting that something was wrong with my now almost 5 year old daughter. Now I'm sure. She is a textbook definitinon for ODD -- everything on the list is HER exactly. We saw a physchologist for a while, that was useless. Finally after getting kicked out of 2 daycare centers for tantrums we hired a nanny and were great for almost a year until the nanny had to leave for health problems. Our accomdating neighbor spoiled her for about 8 weeks and now the worst behaviors are back. We have an appoint ment with a behavioral developmental pediatrician but not until October. I don't think I'll make it until then. I've lost all control and I just can't stand my daugther anymore. My husband feels the same way. Any advice for how to cope until October?
  2. SRL

    SRL Active Member

    Hi Miche, sorry to hear things are deteriorating.

    There's likely something underlying these behaviors--I'm glad you have the developmental pediatrician appointment lined up. What I would suggest to begin with is to call and ask to be placed on their cancellation list. Tell them you are very flexible, then if they do call, drop everything and go.

    If there's anything obvious in the developmental departement (such as speech delays or differences, problems with motor skills or sensory stimuli) you can also request to be referred right away instead of waiting until after the dev pediatrician's appointment. That can help shave off some time in getting a full picture.

    If she's heading off to kindergarten in fall, I'd also advise writing a letter to the local public school district and requesting an evaluation. Once school starts a lot of kindergarteners hit that list fast and it would be good to her name on it. Often in those cases they'll wait until the dev pediatrician's report comes in but it will set the wheels in motion.

    For right now, I'd suggest pulling your copy of The Explosive Child back our and rereading it. Try thinking of her as a child who has something possibly amiss in the neurobehavioral realm, not a child who is trying to make you nuts.

    Are you getting time away from her on a regular basis?
  3. miche

    miche New Member

    There are no obvious developmental problems, except for the ridiculous tantrums. She is above grade level on academic skills and speaks like a teenager (literally). I am already on the dev. pediatrician's cancellation list, and I have been calling them every day at 9am to see if there are any new cancellations. I figure if I'm a big enough pain they'll fit me in :)

    What kind of evaluation should I request in Kindergarten? Although she was kicked out of 2 daycare centers, we had NO problems at all in preschool. Not a single phone call nor complaint. Her end of year report noted some social problems (being bossy, etc) but nothing they felt was out of the ordinary. I hesitate to start her off with a label in school if she might be "ok" there... Know what I mean??

    Being home for the summer, it's just me with the kids. It's hard, especially seeing my 2 year old "copy" her sister at times, not knowing what she is doing. I just want to send my difficult child away. My sister did offer to take her for a "vacation" for a few days to give me a break. I might just take her up on it, but I feel guilty.
  4. SRL

    SRL Active Member

    If she's talking like a teenager and having tantrums and some social issues, I'd suggest that you do some research on Asperger's Syndrome, which is the highest functioning of the Autistic Spectrum Disorders. It's very, very hard to pick up in young children, especially if they are atypical or borderline in symptoms. Also compounding the problem is that some issues don't become pronounced until the child reaches school age and is faced with higher demands in the social and functioning realms. They tend to be little professors in their speech, but there's a wider range of other traits in real life than what the criteria would suggest.

    Obviously we are just parents here and can't diagnose, but we can give you some ideas of where to search.

    In your letter to the school district request a full and complete evaluation. Tell them she is scheduled to be evaluated by a developmental pediatrician in fall. Nothing more needs to be said in the letter. It will take some months to get through the evaluation process. If they offer a label and services, you can decide at that time to accept or deny. If you don't request now and she winds up having problems, often it's into second semester before they finish the evaluations and get services underway. Sometimes they will offer accomodations without an IEP for borderline children.

    While I wouldn't rely on the school district totally for an evaluation, usually it means a number of staff members getting a look at her, and some can offer some very valuable advice.

    Please do take your sister up on giving you some relief! You need it and it sounds like your little one could use some Mommy time. Call her now!!!
  5. miche

    miche New Member

    I have suspected Asperger's, but as a teacher, I have had several students with AS and she does not seem to fit what I've observed. She does have a problem with "personal space", and social situation, but doesn't fit the other criteria such as improper gaze, sameness, or preoccupation with particular activites. She is also not clumsy at all (a cheerleader and gymnast).

    I will talk to my husband about the school evaluation. I'm not worried right now about a Special Education label but rather the "bad child" label being given in Kindergarten.
  6. SRL

    SRL Active Member

    I thought I remember you mentioning that. A child who is borderline on the spectrum often will display some, but not all, of the traits. Or the traits may ebb and flow depending on the situation. Or a child who has a very involved, intuitive parent may get the equivalent of early intervention at home so that symptoms may be minimized?

    Are you seeing any signs of sensory integration problems?

    Two other things to check into would be Nonverbal Learning Disability and Tourette's Syndrome. Both tend to have a lot of overlapping symptoms with AS.

    This is why I suggested a pre-emptive strike. If it's not needed, fine, but if it is needed, then your bases are covered. Also, in my opinion, school is in the ideal position to help with social skills.
  7. miche

    miche New Member

    She doesn't have any sensory issues that I have seen, I will keep researching, but I feel helpless until I have an actual evaluation by a doctor.
  8. karif

    karif crazymomof4

    wow Michelle, I can sympathize with you. My son was just diagnose with ODD and Intermittent Explosive Disorder (IED) and Conduct dissorder. HE is only 3 and I know I am slowing losing my mind also. Just hange in there and at least we know we are not alone. IT IS NOT BECAUSE WE ARE BAD PARENTS!! You are a wonderful mom who just wants to help her child. Remember that the next time she is biting you and screaming at you or you have to leave the grocery store because she has just knocked over every display in the plasce. May God bless you and your beautiful children.
  9. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Wow. To me, not a teacher but a mom of a child with very high functioning Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) who is also exposed to other kids who have it in our social support group, she sounds classically Aspergers. Is there some reason you don't want her tested? Frankly, I'd take her to a neuropsychologist. ODD rarely stands alone. I think all our kids are textbook that is rarely the only thing going on. Your child has lots of red flags for Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD)--I'd look into it. Can't hurt to test her (it's hard enough to get young ASDers correctly diagnosed, may as well start now). If you don't test her, that's what may hurt her. No two kids with Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) act the same. If she acts out in school, she IS going to get that "bad kid" label. Best to find out why she acts out to avoid that too. She could be helped A LOT if she is that bright. Good luck.
  10. AmyW

    AmyW O.D.D Mom

    Hi miche. I hope they can fit you in before October, what a long time to have to wait and deal with all the problems. Hang in there and vent to us as often as you need. If anyone understands and empathizes, It's us! Big hugs to you and good luck!

  11. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Hi and Welcome Back!!! I remember you!!

    I tihnk that you need to go ahead with the school evaluation. You can find sample letters on the sp ed archives. I think your daughter will be LESS likely to get a "bad kid" label if she is tested and identified, and MORE likely to get that label if you don't figure out what is wrong.

    At lot of the disorders seem very similar in a child her age. But it is only in very very rare occasions that it is only ODD. ODD describes a set of behaviors but gives NO insight into why the behaviors are happening. Aspergers, bipolar, Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) (atypical autism), autism, ADHD - these all describe behaviors and give insight into WHY the behaviors are happening. This is why it is important to keep pushing to find the correct diagnosis. Keep in mind that as she grows and matures she will show or develop other symptoms of whatever is going on. This is part of why many kids don't get the "right" diagnosis at first. But this doesn't mean that you should skip having as complete an evaluation as you can get done on her.

    Good luck, I understand how frustrated and upset you are. Take your sister up on the "vacation" - and try not to feel bad. You are overwhelmed and we ALL get that way and need breaks.

  12. miche

    miche New Member

    We still have the evaluation in October by the developmental pediatrican. I am almost positive it is not Asperger's or Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD). I've done the checklists with the doctor and she doesn't fit at all. She is such a "normal" kid otherwise, it's just when she gets angry that she flips out.

    School is already a nightmare. I specifially requested to have an experienced teacher for obvious reasons, and she gets stuck with this brand new but older teacher in her first year. This lady lived in a bubble for 12 years homeschooling her own children and then decided that she could be a teacher. So I think she has a warped sense of what "real" kids are like anyway....she's never had her kids in school.

    Anyway, now daughter HATES school. She is in trouble, yes, but for RIDICULOUS things, like talking during naptime and wiggling on the carpet during storytime. She is actually getting put on "Red" and missing recess for typcial 5 year old behavoirs (as are other kids) and it is setting us back. She is NOT flipping out, which is wonderful, but I'm sure it won't last long. She has nowhere to go but there since even when she is being good she's not getting noticed for it at school.

    Again, husband is adamant that we don't tell the school what a nightmare she is at home, as he thinks it will make them single her out and treat her badly.

    I am so frustrated. To make matters worse, she is getting tested now for reading/math levels and is HATING school so much that she is just saying that she doesn't know the answers -- I am sure of it.

  13. mstddybr

    mstddybr New Member

    Hi Miche,
    I'm new here but I read your post and your daughter seems so much like my son. He flips out when he's angry but he gets angry quite easily and doesn't know how to handle frustration. Anything that doesn't go the way he planned it in his mind or any task that he's asked to complete at home will send him into a rage sometimes. However, he does well in school and gets decent grades. He has never been kicked out of the private schools he's been in but he was having a hard time in public school. He was constantly in trouble and came home angry everyday. I had just had my 1 year old when he started second grade so I had to deal with a brand new baby and his rage on a daily basis. My doctor even prescribed Xanax so that I could handle picking him up from school everyday. I pulled him out and sacrificed some things in order to pay for private school again. He had a complete turn-around and passed to the 3rd grade with mostly Bs and some As. He has never been diagnosed and we have been from therapist to therapist with no real results. I have been doing my own research and he fits into the ODD "mold." He also talks like a teenager and enjoys the teen kinds of t.v. shows. Anyway, I don't really have any suggestions or advice but just wanted to let you know that you are not alone. I too struggled with putting a label on my son but now I'm at the point where I wish I knew what is causing his behavioral issues.
    I am a teacher (6th grade) as well and I agree with you that your daughter's teacher has probably no clue on how to deal with "real" children. Take care and lots of hugs.

    difficult child - 8 year old boy - no rx
    15 month old baby boy - dealing with daycare adjustment
  14. SRL

    SRL Active Member

    husband's reasoning is faulty. If you don't mention the fact that you're looking for answers about her behavior it's MORE likely that the school will think of her as a kid with bad behaviors and/or a result of bad parenting as opposed to a child with possible neurological issues who is having a hard time adjusting.