He wants to spend the night.

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by in a daze, Jul 29, 2015.

  1. in a daze

    in a daze Well-Known Member

    Difficult Child says he never does anything fun any more. So he wants to come here Saturday night and spend the evening with his old friends. He says he will b home by 11 pm.

    He wanted to go to a concert last week and spend the night here, come in like 2 am. I said no. So he didn't go to the concert.

    I told him I have PSTD from when he lived at home and that my mental health was very important to me. He told me I don't have it. I told him u have no idea how your actions can affect us. He spent the nite a few months ago, and got home at 1 30. I was a complete wreck, did not sleep all nite. I don't care that he stayed sober...it brought back some very bad memories.

    You need to start doing stuff and make new friends in your neighborhood, I said. He said, no, I can't do that.

    I think I'm telling him...no.
  2. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Every time I relent, I regret it.

    In our case, my son can be hostile and aggressive. He seems to do the exact opposite of what we want in terms of cleanliness or any other thing.
    This infuriates me. Who is he to tell you about your own psyche. Right off the bat this sounds bad. Complete disrespect and invalidation. He could care less how you feel. He wants what he wants no matter what it costs you.

    My son is the same. I think I have developed an ulcer from stress with my son. When I am around him more than an hour or two I have excruciating pain. Actually, I am getting it right now thinking about it. It used to just feel like acid was being poured down my esophagus. Now I double over. It only happens with him.

    I would not let him over. I would try to learn not to tell him things that he can use against you to hurt you. He does not get a vote about your pain and PTSD symptoms.

    My son will not be allowed again to stay at our home. Last time he broke a broom. He said it was an anger management technique so that he did not do something violent to us.

    Take care of yourself please. Do not let your son hurt your spirit. That is not loving.

    I will try very hard to take better care of myself, too. Thank you for sharing. It helped me.
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    Last edited: Jul 29, 2015
  3. in a daze

    in a daze Well-Known Member

    And thank you, Copa, for validating my feelings and seeing this through my eyes. Those who have been there like yourself get it.

    I have been following your story. I pray your son follows up on his treatment and you obtain peace of mind no matter what he decides to do.

    And now, if I could only get to sleep.....
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  4. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    No I.so a complete sentence.

    It is him invalidating your truth that he gave you p t s d. He has no right to tell you you don't have something you have.

    You can get into plenty of trouble by 11.

    I'm guessing that it's best if he isn't around his old friends. Don't help him see them.

    Trust your instincts. Even though it's hard, stand strong. We are with you.
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  5. in a daze

    in a daze Well-Known Member

    Thanks, SO T. Now he's done a few things with them before, concerts and a party, and stayed sober, but I don't care. This is the way I feel.

    My therapist thinks he's trying to sedge way his way back into the house. (She doesn't know about this latest request). He would LOVE to come live with us again.
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  6. recoveringenabler

    recoveringenabler Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Your feelings are valid IAD. I felt angry when I read that he told you you don't have PTSD. My reaction was, "how dare he say that."
    The issues many of our kids have is so draining and depleting for us and they appear to be oblivious to the impact their behavior has on others. That doesn't make it not real, it is very real. I think you saying no to him is an excellent boundary. You are taking the necessary steps to take care of YOU. Good job.
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  7. Tanya M

    Tanya M Living with an attitude of gratitude Staff Member

    His ability to have "fun" is not your problem.

    The last time you let him stay you were a nervous wreck, that alone is reason enough to say NO.

    This can also be a way for him to "crack" your armor. If he can convince you to let him stay again, then again, then again, and before you know what happened he's living there.

    For him to tell you that you don't suffer from PTSD is another way to "crack" your armor, if he can make you doubt yourself. At the very least he doesn't want to acknowledge his role in why you suffer from PTSD.

    You deserve to have peace in your own home.

    ((HUGS)) to you.........................
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  8. Childofmine

    Childofmine trying to do this thing one day at a time Staff Member

    IAD you are practicing the I am 51% he is 49% rule. When we can do that, I believe that is a very good day for us and for them. It is a complete mindset change for we parents about our adult children. It is a very healthy change for all.

    If you get a knot in your stomach about dealings with your Difficult Child that is a sign to pay attention to. An intense feeling of dread used to come over me when DCs name would flash up on my phone. That is a sign. It is valid to recognize. Feelings aren't facts but our feelings are our feelings.

    Also I believe most of us on this board have been touched with PTSD. We have been at war, in the thick of combat, for years. Living with this kind of dread and fear and not knowing is simply awful when the person who is in a terribly destructive pattern is the person we love so much.

    Of course he poo poos that. The best defense is a good offense. Don't worry we get it here. We're on your side. Hang tough.
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  9. Jabberwockey

    Jabberwockey Well-Known Member

    Several have said this before but it bears repeating. This attempt to invalidate your condition brought on by his actions is him trying to manipulate you. He is trying to minimize his impact on your life to try to sell the idea of him moving back in to you. He is a grown man and if he wants to come back to visit friends then either they can put him up for the night or he can get a hotel.

    I will have to explain this next part a bit so bear with me. When I first started with Corrections it was at a Maximum security prison. When the offenders went to meals, we were running close to half the prison at a time so there was close to 1000 offenders in the dining hall at any given time. You could be standing right next to another officer, shouting at the top of your lungs, and still might not be heard it was that noisy. The quieter it got, the more likely it was that a serious incident was about to happen. If it got truly quiet, someone was about to die. The quieter it got, the more hyper-vigilant aka paranoid staff became. Its like that for me when our son comes home. Granted, not the someone is going to die paranoia, but I tense up and become much more vigilant. I have to force myself to not follow him into other rooms to make sure he isn't doing anything he shouldn't be. I know Lil has a similar feeling when the phone rings and its him. Several times we have both commented something to the effect of "Well, so much for a quiet night" when he calls.

    The point is that we deserve peace in our own homes. If having our difficult children spend the night disturbs that peace then tell them no! I love my son dearly and it breaks my heart that I cant trust him but that is his doing, not mine. Remember that. No matter how much he cries, whines, argues, cajoles, wheedles, or whatever, ITS ON HIM!
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  10. in a daze

    in a daze Well-Known Member

    Thanks, Recovering. I'm sure he's clueless as many of our difficult kids are to the affect they have on us.

    Tanya, his inability to have fun because of his depression and his social anxiety used to really bother me. Last spring, he would text us every other Saturday night around 5 pm "hey u want to come up and get some dinner?" (We never took him up on it). How sad that a 28 year old guy would want to hang out with his parents instead of people his own age. Now my daughter likes getting together with us and enjoys our company and has gone on several vacations with us, but she's not one to call us up on a Saturday night because she has friends and a LIFE. This doesn't bother me as much as it used to maybe because he seemed to be getting a little more social lately.

    Child, they have no idea what they do to us emotionally. My heart sinks when I see his name flash on my screen. Now he calls my husband most of the time, so when i hear that iPhone ringtone my heart rate goes up a little bit.

    Jabber, I know the feeling. He's spent the night first time last Christmas eve and I was a complete wreck because we had 25 family members over for dinner and there was all this booze around which easy child and husband somehow hid or something. And then he was up and down, looking in the fridge, in the garage smoking. I got no sleep. Just because he was home. It's that hypervigilance that u mention happens at the prison, and I think it is triggered by a combination of him being up and down and all those bad memories. Then he stayed over at Easter and it wasn't bad because we told him be quiet and no running up and down and he complied. Then he stayed over the last time and came home at 2 am. That was not good.

    So now he's campaigning his dad to stay the night and doesn't want to go out with his friends anymore. Tired of living in the sober living residence. So he's compromising just so he can stay here this weekend. He is really getting pathetic.

    My husband says he doesn't mind if he spends the night every few months. He said, don't worry, he'll never move back here, I won't allow it. I don't mind, either. It's this going out with the old friends and staying out which causes such anxiety and flashbacks to me.

    I may just tell him no, even though he's not going to see the friends.
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  11. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    I hope you do, in a daze.

    Maybe I am imagining my own son here, but I fear he will punish you in some way or another. You have nothing you have to prove.

    This is your weekend, too. You do not need to subordinate your own tranquility because he is guilt-tripping you.

    Do you really want to see him? Or do you feel like doing something else, like read, relax, be at home with your husband alone? What is best for you? Do it.

    We do not help them by playing into their martyr scripts, their desire to be dependent or rescued. It is demeaning to them. They hold it against us. We pay one way or another.

    We can choose to get off the treadmill. It is OK. Do what you want. You will get stronger. So will your son.
  12. in a daze

    in a daze Well-Known Member

    You are so right, Copa. In a way it's playing into his dependency tendency.

    I'm a little ticked at husband because he told him he could come down tomorrow to see his grandfather 95 year old who is recovering from a bus accident. When the plan was to come down Sunday, visit grandpa and celebrate easy child's birthday.
  13. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    I like this turn of a phrase, in a daze. Very apt.
  14. pasajes4

    pasajes4 Well-Known Member

    Your D C is still being very childish. He is playing one side against another. You and hubby need to get on the same page before you my dear daze go up in flames.
  15. in a daze

    in a daze Well-Known Member

    I ran out for an hour and when I got back husband was on the phone with him, telling him he had wanted him to come down earlier. I got on the phone and said "ok, buddy, it is getting kind of late. Come down tomorrow. Maybe u can come down earlier. How was your visit with the new therapist?"

    He said, "It was ok."

    I said,"good..Try and work on some of what he tells you. I gotta go. Do something fun today. Bye!"

    I had told him in an earlier text the other day that we would see him Sunday. His dad wanted him to come down earlier today, Saturday, and they could both hang out, but we had agreed last night that no spending the night.

    My son's big complaint is that he doesn't know how to fill up.his leisure time. Of course we send him lists of things to do. He lives in an area where there is a lot going on. But he'd rather hang out with his parents. Like I said, it's just pathetic.
  16. in a daze

    in a daze Well-Known Member

    Pasa, husband is sort of on the same page as far as the overnight thing and he says he will go with what I say.

    I'm not totally against it but I would like to see him working on his issues more and doing what MD and therapist tell him, start researching careers, and continue to not miss work (three weeks has gone by since the suspension) before he stays overnight. I may bring this up if he mentions it again. Of course, if he does, rules will be in order (no friend visits)'
  17. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Why go there? He has his own living

    I am assuming he lives within 45 minutes or so away from your house. That is distance where he can visit and comfortably return to where he lives, in the same day or evening.

    He is depressed and with social anxiety. There are treatments for this.

    He is a 28 year old MAN. He may be your son but he is a MAN.

    Have him over for a BBQ and he can go home. Invite him to go out to Pizza and a movie. He can go home.

    There are all kinds of ways to be family and close that do not compromise you and your space. The thing is, buying in to the idea that he needs you and your husband and your home in order to be complete is not good for him.

    In a daze, you are strong. Trust your instincts. You are right.
  18. in a daze

    in a daze Well-Known Member

    Yes. Thanks, Copa. This overnight thing has become a theme of his the past couple of weeks. Of course he can go home on the train or with his sister when he visits.

    Yes, there are treatments for depression and social anxiety, the trouble is, non of them have worked that well. We have been going through this with him for 12 years. Yes, he does take his medications and sees his therapist and caseworker every week.

    And you are right, staying here is not good for him.

    I wish he would get a life.
  19. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    I totally get the "12 years". been there done that. We have ended up getting totally different dxes than what we thought we were working with. Came with a change of doctors and therapists. And finally we are starting to work toward some progress.

    How certain are you that the dxes are correct? Who did them, and how thorough was the testing? Just wondering... because if he's medications and therapy compliant and it isn't really working, maybe the wrong dxes are being treated?
  20. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    I read and reread your post and my answer to you. I wonder if I am being hard on your son, on you, distorting the situation by viewing it as my own.

    My son's life gets smaller and smaller. Of family and old friends nobody anymore tolerates him.

    He too has diagnoses of anxiety, social anxiety and mood disorder. He has body dysmorphia too. He says he thinks he is ugly. I am not sure that this is really the case. I think he manipulates himself, so as to have an excuse to not risk.

    The thing is everything in life is a risk.

    I think this may be what frightens your son so that he prefers to come home, rather than try his hand to make a life, whatever it might be.

    I think our sons might be afraid to cut loose. They fear what might not be there. Instead of embracing possibility.

    The more that I think about it, the more I think the issue pure and simple is dependency. I think that the hostility, anger, and resentment my son directs at me, results from his over-dependence on me.

    He has sought to compensate by finding others upon whom to depend, and for some reason, had fought hard to not develop self-responsibility. Or possibly, he is unable to do so.

    My son wants everything handed to him on a silver platter. He doesn't feel he has to work for anything. He believes dependency is his right. He trusts that there will always be somebody to fix things for him. While his belief has proven to be false, he still clings to it.

    The people in his life have all tired of this attitude, that they are responsible for him.

    My son was charming, intelligent, handsome and sweet. People told me I had done such a good job. Lots of people wanted to help him. Now they don't. They gave him a hand and he bit it.

    The fact that your son is treatment compliant is major. That shows that he can enter a relationship with an attitude of learning. He is showing he is willing to open himself to take in something from another person. That he continues with the halfway house and does not fight you on it...to me show he wants to go in the right direction. Slowly but surely.

    My son refuses to do one thing outside of his comfort zone to help himself. To him, going outside of their comfort zone is for others to do, to help him. He sees others as no longer having good feelings for him. Not once has he thought about what others might need from him--whether gratitude or kindness or respect or consideration. He moves from place to place seeking a more advantageous, comfortable and undemanding situation. The problem is he has less and less.

    There will be a time when our sons will be alone. If they have a chance to move beyond what they are and have, it is now. The thing is, by saying this I am really cheating.

    I am not pulling back from my son to help him. I am doing so to help me. I have decided to learn how to put myself first. He can learn to take care of himself as he can.

    Until just recently I would have recoiled from those words. Now I do not. I am proud.

    I wish this was all easier. I think I am getting somewhere, but to maintain any sanity at all I am posting night and day. If I do not, I fear I will sink into a pit.
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2015