It is getting worse

AnnieO

Shooting from the Hip
What did the police say about the SEXUAL ASSAULT that your niece suffered???
Mom said she didn't get a chance to tell them about that yet. I guess the cop was a jerk to her. She needs to call back tomorrow and talk to someone new.. or with the same one, but about the different situation. I don't know if maybe she is afraid to tell the cops about it- maybe she is worried what Niece may do because of it? I have no idea.
Cops can be jerks. Tell her to talk to another one. This NEEDS to be done. Does not matter what niece might do...
 

JJJ

Active Member
She needs to call the main number. Tell that person that her granddaughter was sexually assaulted and she needs to speak with someone to report it. Don't ask for juvenile. Don't get into the granddaughters behavior. Call TONIGHT and report this. The longer it goes on, the more likely that your MOTHER coud face charges for failure to protect.
 

orcaauntie

New Member
OK, maybe this is going to sound a bit harsh, but keep in mind that I have a daughter (step actually) who was sexually assaulted by an adult at ages 11-13.

Your niece's friend did not "make" your niece do anything.

Yes, she could have set up the situation; but niece could have said no.

HOWEVER. The 15-y/o boy COULD have raped her. From what you've said, it doesn't sound like it. STILL, he took advantage of a CHILD.

Your niece is culpable, but - at age 12 - she canNOT make adult choices like that. Not legally. Not with that maturity level. NOT at ALL.
Agreed. I guess we can't say the friend "made her", but she definitely set the situation up, and encouraged her.. pressured her. The girl constantly said "F*** him", "Do him", etc. over, and over about many different boys. Yes, niece could have said no.. but friend should not have put her in that situation where she felt pressured to do anything like that. Yes, the boy is TOO OLD for niece. I truly wonder what the laws are in their state. I will try and find out.

Simply put - your mom MUST crack down. There are inexpensive door/window alarms at Wal-mart, Lowe's, Home Depot. If she's up for diversion with the court? Don't expect it to work... (Hope, don't expect.)
We definitely hope. Hope, hope, hope. We do not believe she sneaks out at night or anything. Mom checks on all three many times each night and she's always there. But, it may come to a point where she starts doing that.

As part of diversion - she does something like vanish again? Cops need to be called. Not the juvenile officer, the regular PD. Document. Petition the court for CHINS (Child in need of services). She keeps the runaway act up, eventually they will do something. It will probably be a slap on the wrist; but she will be in the system (should be, already, with the Diversion). If she has a probation officer? Talk to them. (Better actually to have your mom do it, since she has legal custody - you don't really have any rights, any more than I do to my stepkids.)
It stinks that I don't really have any rights- except they would be in my custody if anything happens to my parents, as I am the god-mother of all three. Unless somehow they would get put back into my sister's. Niece doesn't have a juvenile/probation officer. She is not in the system-yet. Her friend is though, for beating up some girl and the Mom pressed charges. It was either diversion, or the "friend" got put into placement out of her parent's home. I am actually surprised that the diversion program is even considering Niece for the program since she hasn't been in legal trouble. Maybe they looked at my sister's record and said "OMG, we don't need another of these!". LOL.. ha..ha.. ha.. ok, not funny.
My sister had a CHINS on her when she was younger. Honestly- not sure it did anything. She never got better and never obeyed a darn thing. The cops would be called often because of the fighting, and even her physically assaulting myself and my parents. She went to juvenile hall for a few weeks once. Yay. Maybe my mom wasn't good at enforcing things with her? I am not sure.

I'm sorry... I don't like to see anyone having problems like we did with O - but she is headed down a dangerous path, and we were too lenient and inconsistent... Due to fear of her mother regaining custody.
Do you think being too lenient and inconsistent contributed to her behavior? Because from what Mom told me last night, she said she was that way with my Sister. Maybe Mom being anything BUT lenient and inconsistent with Niece will make a difference. I have my doubts though.

by the way - once a parent is determined to be unfit - getting custody back is highly unlikely for years. Unless everyone concerned just "gives up".
This makes me feel a bit better. Thank you. Except that I worry that perhaps if my parents send her to placement, or to me, that would be considered "giving up" and my sister could use that against us to get custody back somehow.
At the moment I am thinking that- if she is going down such a dangerous path, maybe her moving here is not such a bad idea. She was not behaving the way she is now while she was here. Then again, she wasn't half as bad as she is right now towards my Mom, before she left. So who knows, really. But if she were here then she'd at least be way from this toxic friend, or her siblings. She really dislikes her little sister because she thinks she is a "princess". The exact way my sister used to feel about me. Most negative thing is that both hubby and I work full time. So she'd be alone for a few hrs after school every day.

And, lastly - :hugs:
THANK YOU!! :) :)
 

AnnieO

Shooting from the Hip
If mom was too lenient with sister, it may not have changed behavior, but it certainly didn't help.

O did not sneak out... at age 12. Started age 13.

Peer pressure is bad... worse on a child with self esteem issues.

And... if, heaven forbid, something happens to your parents, you will have to file for custody. Our legal system doesn't recognize godparents. Ugh.

Sorry so short. Posting from cell phone lol!
 

orcaauntie

New Member
If mom was too lenient with sister, it may not have changed behavior, but it certainly didn't help.

O did not sneak out... at age 12. Started age 13.

Peer pressure is bad... worse on a child with self esteem issues.

And... if, heaven forbid, something happens to your parents, you will have to file for custody. Our legal system doesn't recognize godparents. Ugh.

Sorry so short. Posting from cell phone lol!
I bet at some point Niece will start sneaking out. It just comes with the territory of the path she is on. Today she left after Mom said no again. At least with a different friend. This friend isn't perfect, but at least she isn't the other one!! Mom was so surprised that she still left without permission though. They had such a good day, spent time together talking and doing their nails and such. Niece said she was going out, Mom said no, Niece and friend bolted out the door. Mom calls it into the cops every time she goes out without permission just to have it on record for when she starts the diversion program.
Oh and she is also calling the Chief of Police to report and/or discuss the unprofessional behavior of the juvenile officer. I told her not to be surprised if nothing comes of that because police are all corrupt. LOL ;)
Mom also is meeting with another cop (who coincidentally was the cop that the toxic friend and her Mom lied to my niece about wrecking their house) and Mom is showing her all of the proof she has of the friend pressuring her (I know.. Niece could have said no!) and the proof of the boy's age, date, etc. and see if there is anything that can be done regarding that.

Oh- I do know I'd have to file with the courts for custody if something were to happen to my parents- but I think I'd at least be the one that they'd go to on the interim, considering Biomom lost custody and the whole god-mom thing.. I very well could be wrong, but really since my sister and the kids' father do not have legal custody- where else COULD they go? I wouldn't LET them go anywhere that wasn't family, and probably would fight against them going to their Biomom.. I'd fight that till I died! :)
And no worries on being short, my messages need to be shorter! LOL
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
I don't believe fifteen is an adult in any state.

When my kids were sexually assaulted (and they really were...they were six and three years old)...we were told that in order for a child (and fifteen is a child) to be charged with an actual sex crime, the child has to be six years older than the person he assaulted. I doubt this will come to anything especially since it sounds as if she was willing and because he is also so young.

I really think the emphasis should go to helping her so that this doesn't happen again rather than trying to press charges that probably won't go anywhere. This girl has problems and desperately needs help and blaming her friends or the boy in my opinion won't make things better for her.

When my daughter was doing drugs, she used to let me kiss her good-night then take out her window and climb out and run around town. She kept the radio on. SHe got away with it a few times before we caught on. THEN we called the cops to bring her home. It never stopped her from going out again. She stopped being a difficult child when she decided that her life was horrible...not a minute before that. And since it was her decision, she's done a great job of turning her life around. Sometimes I think it really has to come from within them...
 

InsaneCdn

Well-Known Member
I know it varies... but HERE... if one of them is at least 2 years older than the other... it WILL go to court. They don't lay charges if they are "true peers" ... e.g., a 14yo and a 13yo... the age difference is so small they are practially equals. But at 2 years apart... the older one is deemed to be more responsible. It wouldn't be adult-level charges... there are juvie equivs. Its not treated as "sexual assault", but rather as "statutory rape" or "statutory sexual assult" or "statutory sexual relations with a minor"... and the "statutory" label is what changes the outcome... unless an ADULT is involved. In which case they throw the book at them.
 

memeliza

New Member
Today I picked up my 13 y/o grandaufgter eary from shcool just because I spoke too her coach and he said track practice was cancelled, fearing that Grandaughter would go to her friends house or go down the st where her friend goes to have sex, g-daughters friends mom has no clue where her children are she is so drugged up she sleeps all day. my GD other friend (summer) stopped by to talk to mr GD, I said you may come in but my GD can not leave, I was putting away laundry and they both took off, at 330 pm my time I was bringing my GS to soccer practice I see my GD with her friends down the ST which seems to be the new hang out. I called the the parent down the st said yes she is there I asked her to send her home she said after I talk to her(she apparently gave her a speech) my GD friend constintly butted in the convo, and said my GD can do what she want she is not going home. Parent told her it was not her decision her GM want her home she goes home. my GD friend said no she dont, Parent told friend just go I am takling to (KC) friend continued to intervene in the conv, I went back home and peported her as taking off, so file will be in record. GD came hoem st 9:30 pm acted like nothing, I went in her face abd told her look you nedd to stop running off, she started calling me vulger names.I did slap her on the face. I called the police to settle her down, she was totally flipping on me swearing I gave her a choice either chill out or talk to the police she continued calling me a c*nt, nasty fat ***** and on and on, I said call me what ever it does not hurt my feeling. so she picked up a bottle getting ready to throw it at me, the dog bit her in her crotch(my dog does not like aggression) she was hitting the dog with the bottle I told her well he needs to defend himself. Police came spoke to GD, she continued to swaer, cop said what is your problem she said them f*C&^rs. police man explained to her well if you disrespoect they are your guardiand you need to listen to them wether u want to or not so what r we going to do right now he saod to my GD she agreed to go in her room and not leave again. I am enrolling her in the court diversion on friday. its like a tough love all provlidges ar taken away and need to earn it all back I get to tell them whom she can not haang with and she needs to follow through. I hope this works I am so upset with her lack of disrespect I am crying now
p
 
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AnnieO

Shooting from the Hip
MWM, I think it varies from state to state - here, it is 3 years IF the child is 14 or older, and 1 year if the child is under 14...
 

DDD

Well-Known Member
Memelisa are you Orcaaunt's Mom? If so welcome to the Board. It sounds like you have decided on a course of action that you believe is the best choice...or the only choice available. As a Grandmother who has raised a couple of boys I understand that it is difficult and am sending you a hug. by the way, one of the sayings I kept in mind that helped me alot is "never let them see you sweat". Remember the old commercial? Whether it is crying, yelling or hitting it does not work and, I believe, reaffirms in their mind that they can mimic that behavior. I know it is easy to react to terrible choices made by a teen but save your emotional outbursts for your pillow...your tears for quiet release in the shower alone. Whether it is teenage defiance or mental health issues that are triggering her bad and erratic acts she will (and has been) watch you as a role model. Many of us have lived in extremely stressful cir circumstances with out of control kids. The difficult child's feed off of parental response. Inside your head slowly count numbers, say a prayer or internally repeat "I will be calm and strong". Whatever works for you. It takes practice but it should defuse the very volatile atmosphere and allow you to set the examples you want her to follow. I'm sorry you are having such a hard time and hope that with a consistent calm course of action you will soon have a more peaceful home. DDD
 

orcaauntie

New Member
I wasn't going to respond until Mom did. Yes, memeliza is my wonderful, strong and beautiful Mom. :) Clearly she was very stressed and upset when she typed her post. It seems to me like she had a moment of weakness with Niece- probably because of Niece running off after being told "No" all week. All three days, Mon., Tues., and Weds. Yesterday seems to have been the worst since my parents have "had it". Mom has been doing very well with trying to remain calm and not fight back.

Another thing to note that I haven't mentioned is that Niece has stated many times that she feels like she "can't control" her anger at my Mom. She said she tries real hard then she just explodes. She says reading, drawing or listening to music doesn't help her. Also she has stated that she runs off because she got mad. However yesterday, that was not the case because she was not mad. Her and Mom had a good afternoon and she still chose to run off after being told "No", so I think that one may be an excuse. But I am concerned with her saying she cannot control her anger even after trying so hard. I worry there is something else buried in there and that is why I keep mentioning to Mom to get her into a Comprehensive Evaluation by a NEUROPSYCHOLOGIST. I don't know what type she had before, but we need a new one. She needs a new medication and I think, a more thorough and proper evaluation. and diagnosis. ODD is not a true diagnosis as I've learned from all of you.. so there is some other underlying issue- other than ODD and ADD.

I am hoping Niece being spoken to by the cop will change her again. It worked last time- but she was also younger and not feeling the way she obviously is now.

DDD- Thank you for your response and tips. I hope Mom takes them seriously and tries them. Sometimes all it takes is taking a DEEP BREATH and telling yourself something to keep calm in a moment of weakness. Do any of you suggest that since Mom did smack niece across the face, that maybe she take an opportunity to apologize to her? Or should she not bother with that?

I only ask because I agree with you, DDD, that physical aggression will get you nowhere. I remember when things got physical with my Sister- she would throw a huge fit, throw things, hit things, break things, and hit myself and my parents.. and we'd almost always "fight" back to try and stop her. We wouldn't HIT her, more so try and restrain her to get her to stop and hold her arms and legs back. I've even gotten in th middle of fights with her ex-boyfriend (the kids' father) because they would get physical and if it was in front of me I'd restrain her to try and keep her from doing something that would get her arrested. In essence- that was probably encouraging her to be physically aggressive and only lent itself to escalating her self-destructive behavior.
 
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DDD

Well-Known Member
So much depends on the exact situation and the pattern of communication. If I recall you have said that your neice often did have "good days" or "parts of days". Those calm moments would be when I might say something short and sweet. "I want you to know I feel badly that I lost my temper the other day. It was a poor choice and I'll try not to respond that way again." Period. No details of what was said or done that triggered the response. BUT each of us has to chart our own course based on the specific situation and our own personalities. All of us parenting difficult child's wish there was a simple manual that we could use to look up "the" answers. Sigh! I'm glad your Mom joined in. DDD
 

orcaauntie

New Member
Mom finally got Niece to counselors today- niece had run off or had to cancel for one reason or another over the last few weeks. They diagnosed her with TEMPER DISORDER WITH DYSPHORIA which is a lifelong disorder and said that the medication she is currently on is the only treatment, but doctors are actively researching other medications that will reduce the outbursts. Doctors performed a study on children who were diagnosed with bipolar, using the typical medications like seroquel, depakote, etc. and saw no changes in behavior. TDD essentially, from my brief reading, seems to be a derivative of bipolar, but is different. The information I am reading now also states how many children diagnosis'd with bipolar may not have bipolar- and rather, they may have TDD. They have increased her dosages of the Vyvanse and Intuniv however, to the maximum for her age and weight. So now she holds the "labels" of ADD, ODD and TDD.

I guess her counselor also had a talk with her about how she must obey authority- expecially Meme and Grampy, and that Niece is not the boss. They explained to her that hanging out with the wrong crowd will end up hurting her in the end, and how the "friend" we all have issues with would essentially, leave her to take the blame if anything were to happen (the counselors apparently know this friend quite well themselves..) Unfortunately we also found out that Niece had an outburst at school last week, where a kid in class was annoying her so she kicked him. She was sent to the office- but NO ONE contacted my Mom!!! I can't believe that. Mom will be contacting the school to find out what happened. I certainly believe they should have contacted my Mom.

Niece still won't tell Mom about the incident with the 15yr old boy. Mom told her that she can tell her anything and Mom will not judge her or hold it against her. She still won't come clean about that though. I hope one day she will get the courage to be open and honest about it.

The cop last night also had a nice talk with her and calmed her down. He kept asking her "what is going on." because he's been called to the house for her a few times recently. She kept saying "nothing", but finally, she said she was mad because Meme and Grampy don't let her go to her friend's all the time, whenever she wants. He told her that she must listen to them even if she doesn't want to. They provide her a nice, loving home and she should be grateful that they have taken them in, out of their past situation. He told her how he has 5 kids and if they ever acted how she was, they would never leave the house. Between the cop's talk, new diagnosis and talk with the counselor, my Mom seems very hopeful that we are going in the right direction. Niece had deleted Mom as a Facebook "friend" because she was mad at her last week, and today she added her back. Mom told her that she would tell the court diversion lady to delete her entire account and would see to it that she never got it back, and Niece added her back :) Such a small, but exciting feat :)

And I am also happy to report that the family will begin going to church on Sundays again. My younger niece is beginning in the church choir so they will make the extra effort to go every Sunday as a family, to see her. :)
I am so happy right now I could dance!! I just hope all of this "sticks"!!
 
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AnnieO

Shooting from the Hip
Great start... And I really hope it sticks... I don't want to burst your bubble but... She is a teenager...

O can go quite literally months where everything's good, she's an angel, and then...
 

DDD

Well-Known Member
I'm glad that the family is feeling better. With all due respect remember the common CD mantra "Hope for the best but stay prepared for the worst". Almost all of us refer to life with a difficult child as a rollercoaster ride. Personally I am hoping that she meets a new friend who doesn't have issues...maybe at the Churtch? That would be the quickest way for her to separate from her troubled friend. It's something to pray for. Some of the local churches have outstanding youth groups with alot of fun planned activities and dynamic youth leaders. Fingers crossed. DDD
 

orcaauntie

New Member
I'm glad that the family is feeling better. With all due respect remember the common CD mantra "Hope for the best but stay prepared for the worst". Almost all of us refer to life with a difficult child as a rollercoaster ride. Personally I am hoping that she meets a new friend who doesn't have issues...maybe at the Churtch? That would be the quickest way for her to separate from her troubled friend. It's something to pray for. Some of the local churches have outstanding youth groups with alot of fun planned activities and dynamic youth leaders. Fingers crossed. DDD

The youth group idea is great. We will look for one in the area. I know there was one years ago, but not sure it is still around. And I totally agree with you, hopefully she meets a new friend.. that definitely would help. And hopefully hearing that this girl is bad news from two separate "neutral" authority figures gets through to her. Both the cop and the counselor told her the same things. Since it didn't come from myself or Mom, she may actually believe it. She usually just brushes off what we tell her.

StepTo2- I totally understand. And I think we've already experienced one of these times. She was great for many, many months. She had some outbursts but they were far between. Then she came to visit me for 2 months, went home, and all heck broke loose. It reminded me of when my sister was moved to my Biodad's home in Florida when she was 12. She was getting into so much trouble so Mom sent her there. It lasted almost a year. She moved back home and all heck broke loose- her behavior was 10x worse. But the issue was that my Biodad treated her like crud and did some horrible things while she was there.

But, if we can get a good few months out of Niece then that would make me happy. It's just getting through the bad few months and getting her back on track that might kill us. :)
 

keista

New Member
It sounds like a good diagnosis, but I'm still concerned about her medication.

Intuiv and Vyvanase are both for ADHD. What I've read about TDD states that protocol is for a stimulant (Vyvanase) AND and SSRI ( an antidepressant) AND Cognitive Behavior Therapy but also not ruling out adding an antipsychotic.

This is from NAMI on TDD

http://www.nami.org/Content/ContentGroups/Policy/Issues_Spotlights/DSM5/TDD_Paper_4_13_2010.pdf

Also, I'm not sure if it's "officially" in the new DSM, but that part doesn't really bother me because in my opinion there are things in the DSM that shouldn't be there and I'm sure others that should be (like TDD - it does sound like a good 'different' diagnosis for kids who don't 'offcially' fit bipolar) So, also keep in mind that TDD is "new" and hasn't had full studies or clinical applications on a mainstream scale.

I'm very sorry, but I still don't get why the niece seems to be falling through the cracks. The other two are on Risperdone and it seems to be working for them and yet she's not on it, and her symptoms are what Risperdone is often rxed for.

As you can see by my sig, I'm not wrapped up in labels. They are useful for getting the right help, so I really don't care what the disorder is called if the help is good. I am also a big believer in medications, but if they aren't helping, or worse, CAUSING problems, then they are absolutely useless. It does not seem like the current medications you niece is on are helping at all. In fact, they may be making things worse since your posts about her seem to be escalating.

Are the other two seeing the same psychiatrist? If not, does niece's psychiatrist know the dxes of the other two and what medications they are on? Seriously, looking at your sig, it just does not make any sense to me - ESPECIALLY knowing that bipolar runs in the family. Yeah, many psychiatrists don't diagnosis it in kids - not a problem, but sheesh! treat the existing symptoms.
 
L

Liahona

Guest
The Bipolar Child has some great charts for keeping track of mood swings and energy and sleep and medication changes.
 

orcaauntie

New Member
I'm very sorry, but I still don't get why the niece seems to be falling through the cracks. The other two are on Risperdone and it seems to be working for them and yet she's not on it, and her symptoms are what Risperdone is often rxed for.
I do agree. I pushed Mom to see if the docs would put her on the Risperdone. I assume there is a good reason they didn't. I'll have to clarify. You mentioned that often with TDD they prescribe a stimulant and SSRI- aren't SSRIs not good for younger people? And Risperidone is not an SSRI I do not believe, or is it? I know they prescribed Vyvanse partially because there is no risk for dependence or anything like that. Maybe since she's a teen they don't want to put her on anything that poses a risk for substance abuse. Not sure of course.

Mom can't log in for some reason. Her password isn't working and she said she's waiting for a new one?? Otherwise she could clarify as necessary.

As you can see by my sig, I'm not wrapped up in labels. They are useful for getting the right help, so I really don't care what the disorder is called if the help is good. I am also a big believer in medications, but if they aren't helping, or worse, CAUSING problems, then they are absolutely useless. It does not seem like the current medications you niece is on are helping at all. In fact, they may be making things worse since your posts about her seem to be escalating.
I agree- but I guess we'll just have to wait and see. They have just increased her dosage. Maybe it will help. If not, I will push Mom to get something like Risperdone again. I'm sure she's gonna love me! :)

Are the other two seeing the same psychiatrist? If not, does niece's psychiatrist know the dxes of the other two and what medications they are on? Seriously, looking at your sig, it just does not make any sense to me - ESPECIALLY knowing that bipolar runs in the family. Yeah, many psychiatrists don't diagnosis it in kids - not a problem, but sheesh! treat the existing symptoms.
They are all seeing the same doctor. And I completely agree that it makes no sense, especially knowing bipolar runs in the family. I truly believe it's all in the answers to questions the doctor asks.. and since Niece likes energy and not being tired, she maybe answered ?s tailored to what she thought they needed to hear to keep her on the ones that give her energy? No idea if this is true but it's what I think is highly possible.
 
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