New here and need advice

[thegoodmother]

I'll try to make this short but give some needed details. My son who is in his 30's lies more than he tells the truth. He started smoking pot and shop lifting in middle school. I had him very young and with my mothers help gave him a good life. The problem is, my mother has gave him everything from money, free vehicles, even a house and to many other things to name. She has always "bailed him out" financially when he was married and supported his children. I am still fairly young but work full time and don't have time to raise his children on a daily basis. The mother of the children (his ex-wife) isn't fit to raise them but does have custody of them. My son who is ordered to pay child support will not pay the support and even went as far as making up fake receipts and showed them to me so I would think he was paying his child support! He faked a break in at his house and even filled out a police report. He actually stole the items and pawned them and didn't want his girl friend to know. He went as far to steal my jewelry and my mothers jewelry and also pawned it. Unfortunately is was melted down before we noticed it missing. I pressed charges and so did the police for filing a false police report. All he got was a week in jail and drug counseling for a month. He wanted to better his life so I took him in to live with my husband and other children about 6 moths ago. We gave him a car that he was to make payments on so he could work. Well..everything is the same as it was before. Nothing but lies and more lies....stole money from me which he still denies and found pot in his bedroom which he knows isn't aloud in our home. I want to kick him out but the problem is my mother keeps pressuring me to let him stay and making me feel guilty! He's been in counseling for depression but quit going. I've gave him chances over and over for years and this time I'm done. He has lived with his father but did the same thing to him, so no more support there. I just don't understand the constant lies! He is ruining my family and seems to have no remorse. I have other children to care for but it seems all of my time is focused on him. Am I wrong to tell my mother to but out and just put him out of the house this time?? Any advice would be so great.

 

[DDD]

Of course you are not wrong! I don't think you need to tell your Mom to but out, lol, but I think you need to simply say "Mom, Jr. is not getting any more mature or honest and the years are rolling by. He will no longer be welcome at my home and I hope and pray he can find the help he needs." Just make a simple truthful statement and be prepared to stick to your guns. I know it will be hard but it is the right thing to do. Hugs DDD

 

[thegoodmother]

It's going to be hard to tell her but going to do it. Thank you so much for your advice!

 

[BusynMember]

i would not let him live with you. it isn't up to your mother or anyone else. He is a middle age man with his own family and he is also committing crimes.

Do you get any support independent of your family? Sounds like you guys may be overly involved with one another...your mother does not still have control over you and you do not owe anything more support or housing to your son. You can't control him or his ex or what the courrts order them to do with the kids...in fact, you can only control one person...yourself and your reaction to other people.Your mom can not make you feel guilty unless you allow her to. I would start to tell her that you aren't going to listen to her talk about your son. You can say it kindly, but be firm. I would start keeping her separate from your son.If she starts to talk about him, well...there's somebody at the door. You have to go. Or you just remembered you have to pick up something at the store and you have to go. Do not listen to her tell you what to do or even talk about your son. At the same time, you can not control her if SHE decides to enable your son. Focus on yourself and your loved ones who are kind and loving to you. Abusers and control freaks are toxic.

Do you ever take care of yourself? Do you go to any twelve step meetings to get help in dealing with your son? Do you have your own therapist?

I recommend a really good book that got me thinking of myself for the first time in my life: "Codependent No More" by Melodie Beattie. please...do yourself a favor and read it. You deserve better than the abuse coming from your mother and your son. Relatives or not, they are not treating you well and are trying to control you and you don't need that.

You have done everything possible for your grown son and he has not turned into a nice or caring person...this is a very hard thing for mothers to admit. It isn't your fault. He is old enough to decide how he will be toward others. Faking child support payments is pretty bad, but there isn't anything you can or should try to do about it. It is his problem. He did it. Let him deal with the natural consequences. you don't want him to be fifty and still unable to make an adult decision because everyone always bails him out. in my opinion it's best to stop it, regardless of what anyone tells you.

So sorry for your hurting heart. Glad you found us; so sorry you had to though...

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

It is hard to face what our kids are really doing, who they have really become. It seems to me that you see who he is, but Grandma is having a hard time admitting it to herself. I agree with DDD that this son has to go. I like the way DDD phrased what you might say to Grandma.

I feel badly for both of you. It's heartbreaking to think about turning your son out, I know.

I agree with DDD that this grown man needs to leave your home. He has no right to expect you to harbor him while he abuses both drugs and your hospitality, and cheapens whatever relationship the two of you had left by stealing from you.

I'm so sorry this is happening. I know how painful everything about this is.

Cedar

 

[Echolette]

Goodmom,
I completely agree with the others. Why are you letting your son stay in your house? Are you hoping that by showing him kindness and loving support he will learn it by modelling? Are you hoping that by using the same approach you have presumably used for 30 plus years (being responsible and caretaking) that he will suddenly become different? Because if it didn't work for the first 30 years it isn't going to work now...you know that.

I agree with MWM's recommendation to read Co-dependent no more, if you haven't read it. It is shockingly eye-opening about our own behavior. I think you will find it freeing, and it may give you the strength to take the next steps. If it helps, when I read it I DIDN"T EVEN KNOW WHAT WAS WRONG with some of the vignettes they told to illustrate severely dysfunctional co-dependent behavior! You may find the same.

I'm sorry your mom is making it harder. My mom, who was generally very loving and supportive (dead now for 4 years), tried really hard to help with difficult child..she genuinely loved him and saw the good in him. When we took the step of sending him to military school in a desperate attempt to give him structure, she said (and this was harsh cricticism from her) that we weren't being very nice, that we were just throwing him out because he didn't fit our needs. That still hurts. I'd still like to get her to see my point of view...but I can't. And likely you won't be able to either.

I'm struck by his making up receipts and showing them to you. Why does he need to show them to you? You aren't the law...what is he trying to prove? Is he just lying so he can stay in your house? Is he manipulating you? The whole relationship is messed up there...you shouldn't be in the middle of child support issues, its between him, his ex, his kid, and the law. You have no role there, and he shouldn't be draggin you in, especially in a completely fabricated manner.

He needs to leave. As fast as you can get him out. Keep posting..we will help you through this, cause we all know that it is very very very hard.

Echo

 

[Nomad]

Of course you are right. He is 30......?.... This has gone on too long. Talk with your mom. Cut him off. Encourage him to get a job (or more hours???h and maybe offer him some small, well thought out incentive if he gets one and keeps it for six months; like a dinner out. (And things are still going well at the six month mark!) But quickly and swiftly move away from all of this. Read the book recommended and anything else you can get your hands on regarding enabling. He will feel so much better about himself if and when he learns to be self supportive. If he is rude to you, don't speak to him AT ALL until he can get his act together.The fact that he stole from the people who love him and have been so giving to him says a lot! Good that you called the police. That says a lot too. Let him know you expect better of him. Let's see if he understands things have changed, you expect him to do better and wont settle for anything less.

 

[recoveringenabler]

I agree with the others. He is a grown man and has to be held accountable for his choices. You and your mother have enabled him and in order for YOU to take your life back, you have to stop. There is a good article on detachment at the bottom of my post here, you might find it helpful. It is imperative for all of us here on the PE side of the forum to stop the flow of money to our adult kids. As for your mother, it is time to tell your mother what it is YOU want, it is time for both you and your mother to stop enabling your son and allow him to begin the process of growing up, or not. But whatever he does, it is not your responsibility any longer. It is his. It is usually important for those of us here to seek professional counseling or some method of support to learn how to detach from our adult kids. We need to change old patterns we've been acting out of for a very long time and that usually requires help. Find some support for yourself to make the changes necessary to detach from your son and your mother. Wishing you peace. Keep posting, it helps.

 

[Echolette]

I'll just add...you cannot control what your mother thinks, or what she says to you. All you can control is your own reaction to that. She may keep saying what she is saying. You are the one who can change the dynamic around that.

 

[thegoodmother]

I can only say thank you all so much for your advice. I feel so fortunate that I stumbled across this forum a few days ago. To find people who can give me straight forward, honest advice is amazing. The reason for the child support receipts is because I told him that he couldn't live under my roof unless he took care of his children. That is why I was asking for the receipts. Of course it blew up in my face. I had an honest discussion with him and he was told the games were over....lying at his age is embarrasing and he isn't even good at it which makes it worse. He was also told that he has a couple weeks to find his own place and there will be no excuses. I also told him my energy needs to be focused on my 11 year old and my daughter that just moved away to college. I feel pretty good about it and not feeling guilty anymore. I just want to say that all your advice is great and it made me feel so much better and making him move out. Echolette made the comment that I cant control what my mother says or thinks and I need to control how I act to it. That really struck me because that is absolutely right. I have actually been encouraging her behavior because I know now that I've been feeding into what she says by talking to her about it when she calls. Thank you for that because it opened my eyes! Also, I am ordering the book that was suggested and cant wait to read it. Unfortunately where I live there is no counseling for me to go too. I will continue to come here to seek advice that has already helped me so much.

 

[Echolette]

I just want to point you down the road of detachment with adults...you wrote
"He was also told that he has a couple weeks to find his own place and there will be no excuses." I'd encourage you to simplify that...he just has to get out. That is simpler than "he has to find his own place, which he may or may not choose to do, and in fact may NOT do so that he can continue staying with you. All you can require and enact is that he get out. Did you set a date? If not you will find that weeks and months will pass and he will still be "looking for a place." Dates are critical when you get to the place of moving them out.

Read more: http://www.conductdisorders.com/community/threads/new-here-and-need-advice.56313/#ixzz2rnO799eF

 

[BusynMember]

Before you focus on your two easy child kids, be sure to focus on a very important person...YOURSELF You deserve a happy, sane life even if this young man is making horrible choices. You are not him/he is not you. He is choosing his own path. Chose yours
I would refrain from talking to Mom about this child or asking her advice. In fact, I'd actively change the subject if she brings him up. You do not need or want her advice!!

Hugs!!