New PETA ad...

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by Nomad, Aug 19, 2009.

  1. Nomad

    Nomad Guest

    I heard about this from a friend this morning, googled and found it.
    A PETA "save the whales" campaign...it is disturbing! I guess it is meant to get us talking...which has worked! So, take a look. What do ya think?

    http://www.feministing.com/archives/017289.html
     
  2. Star*

    Star* call 911........call 911

    Years ago - YEARS I was a member of Greenpeace and PETA. I have long dropped both as they became too radical and lost the true sight of what they were tryign to accomplish. I have remained a life-long member of the ASPCA and picked up the WWF which have kept true to their ideals.

    PETA has literally lost sight of what they were trying to do. This ad has nothing to do with saving whales. It's tasteless, crass and inappropriate.
     
  3. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Well...its PETA...what can one expect? They just gave Micheal Vick a "get out of jail free"card because of who he is. Blah! So what if he is a super quarterback? How many regular people with felony convictions can walk out on parole (is he even on parole? How does that work with away games?) and get a million dollar job?

    Im a sickened. He has never actually said he fought the dogs. He has danced all around it. He has said he maintained the residence to keep the dogs, he killed the dogs, he knew about the fighting...blah blah blah. He has never once said he fought them. OH BS! I, and ever person who knows about dog-fighting, knows that if you are that involved, are fighting them. And you dont fight them unless you are fighting them for money which is against the football leagues gambling policy which would have made him completely ineligible to ever play again which is why he can never say he fought the dogs.

    That is why he will never utter those words and why no one will make him. They would have a Pete Rose situation and Micheal Vick would never be able to go into the Hall of Fame. I am just sick that he has been allowed back into football and sick that PETA has him wandering the country to "teach" people not to be mean to animals. Yeah right. That is like letting Ted Bundy out to teach people not to murder people.
     
  4. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    I'm not surprised. I also don't think this works - not only because it's hurtful, but the connection is too distant, it's too obscure. Vegetarians tend to be skinny because it's a lot more difficult to get ENOUGH of the right nourishment if you're vegetarian.

    I went off PETA back when they decided to have a go at Aussie farmers for mulesing. This is a practice which involves removing a patch of wool-covered skin below the tail. Yes, it undoubtedly hurts and it leaves a patch of scar tissue on which wool doesn't grow; but farmers wouldn't do it if the alternative were not far worse. We have blowflies in Australia, they do a lot of damage to sheep that haven't been crutched or mulesed. A sheep dying from fly strike dies a painful (agonising) and long-drawn-out death. We're trying to breed sheep with fewer skin folds so mulesing won't be needed, but until then, it's by far the most humane way of handling the problem.

    Pink is a regular visitor to Australia, but for a while she was very vocal in her protests over mulesing of sheep. Until she was actually here, and someone took her to a farm to show her why it is done, and exactly what it involves. Since then she has reversed her opinions on the subject. She is very popular here, and a big reason for this is she was prepared to look at the evidence and to think about the subject further.

    Since then I've been taking note of PETA's propaganda, and my earlier disappointment in them has been turning to distaste and downhill from there.

    Marg
     
  5. Fran

    Fran Former Site Owner

    I'm not a joiner and never have been. I'm too cantankerous or oppositional. LOL.
    What starts out as a good idea eventually grows to have it's own agenda that is different from the stated goals and/or becomes so militant that it's just crazy.
    I'm all for humane but it is inappropriate for me to tell sheep farmers how to do their jobs. Someone who does that work should teach a better way but it's ridiculous for me to sit in my family room and tell someone how they have done their work is wrong.
    In my head the phrase "tin cans rattling" keeps going around.
     
  6. donna723

    donna723 Well-Known Member

    Don't even get me started on PETA! Anyone who thinks they are real advocates for animals should google them and see what kinds of things they have REALLY done! These are the people who have come to high level dog shows and let valuable show dogs out of their crates, many times to run loose in the streets! Some were hit by cars and some were never found. They have even poisoned the drinking water of crated dogs left unattended at dog shows because they think that they're better off dead than to be crated and be subjected to human ownership! They're a bunch of ravin' loonies and give legitimate animal rights organizations a bad name!
     
  7. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    :disgusted::wince::rolleyes:Oh, gawd. That's just their style. I don't expect classy ads from them.
     
  8. JJJ

    JJJ Active Member

    I don't think I'm going to watch the ad. PETA just seems to go for shock value.
     
  9. DazedandConfused

    DazedandConfused Active Member

    I'm opting out of the watching the ad. So, I can't voice an opinion about it. I can't even watch Animal Cops because it gives me bad dreams. I've raised animals for slaughter as a kid, and even watched as it happened. It was quick and humane, in my opinion. Heck, I've even plucked headless chickens.

    (Janet, I'm disgusted about the whole Vick thing, too)

    PETA has gone completely to the fringe and have lost credibility with just about everyone except for the looney radicals.
     
  10. Star*

    Star* call 911........call 911

    Well, I worked a Summer on a Sheep farm and we just took these very tight rubber bands and put them on the lambs tails, sprayed them with purple antibiotic spray and they fell off. They do the same things with tails of some dog breeds here. They would fall off in the field. I would never have told the farmer what to do either.

    I also can't watch the Animal Cop show. I have in the past, but even the Humane Society commercials with Sarah MacLachlin showing that big brown and white bulldog in the cage shivering from fear make me cry - everytime. I would adopt him tomorrow if they said - here.

    With regards to Michael Sick. He's a jerk. The Philadelphia eagles can go inhale raw eggs. What a publicity skunk. I think the Humane Society made a very bad call having him be anywhere NEAR an animal again. I saw the interview where he said he spent many nights crying. BULL. Cried all the way to the bank with a new contract.

    I support and will continue to support my local Humane Society because they really DO do a good job for the community. There are also several rescues that ask for donations and volunteers if for nothing else - just come visit our "inmates" and walk, talk, throw a ball - pet them. I can do that for free. Save newpapers, or get an extra gallon of bleach. Save my old towels and blankets. Give $5.00 a month instead of eating a sandwhich and challenge my friends to do the same to a shelter.

    There is a lot you can do - to help. ;)
     
  11. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I cant watch that Sarah MacLachlin ad either. I just want to go adopt all the poor animals.

    Dont be so hard on the Animal Cops shows. Those ACO's have hard jobs. I watch the shows once in a while so I know more of what Jamie really does because he wont tell me all the bad stuff. He only tells me some of the funny stories. Once in a blue moon he tells me of a really bad thing that happens. Not often though.

    Being an ACO can be harder than being a cop. People do such awful stuff to animals and animals are so helpless. They cant tell you who did it to them. Its kind of like being a Special Victims cop.
     
  12. muttmeister

    muttmeister Well-Known Member

    Well, I'm an animal rights person but I agree that PETA has a history of going too far. But as somebody who's a vegetarian (most of the time) and a little overweight besides, I didn't find the ad as offensive as you all did. I actually thought it was kind of funny.

    And on the Michael Vick thing: we all know he's a jerk BUT I do believe in second chances. He served his time; he says he's remorseful. Yes, I doubt his sincerity but I have screwed up royally a few times myself and I'd hate to think I was going to be banned from the world forever with no way to redeem myself. Maybe he learned a lesson; maybe not, but I suspect a lot of other people learned from the incident. I'm willing to let him have his chance and see what happens. If he's like a lot of other jocks, he'll end up in trouble again anyway, but if not, more power to him.
     
  13. donna723

    donna723 Well-Known Member

    The thing about Michael Vick ... I believe in second chances too but I would sooner give a second chance to Charles Manson than Michael Vick! He's not sorry he did it - he's sorry he got caught and he's sorry he went to prison. He didn't just use these dogs for fighting. He tortured the losers to death and apparently he enjoyed it! He burned some of them to death. And some had the terminals of car batteries attached to their ears and were then thrown into his swimming pool to drown while he watched! They said there's big gouges out of the sides of his swimming pool where these desperate dogs tried to claw their way out of the pool! It takes a very sick and twisted individual to do that! NO WAY has his attitude changed after a short time in prison! Right now he's saying what he thinks he needs to say to get back in to football and start raking in the big bucks again! There has to be some huge personality defect in someone who could do what he did! I work around 1,500 convicted felons every day and I guarentee you that 99.999% of them wouldn't have done what he did! I have seen a few very scary pure sociopaths in my day and they have done some really horrible things, but with them, they are very matter of fact about what they did, but they didn't really ENJOY doing it - they just did it! Michael Vick enjoyed torturing these animals to death and that's just nauseating!

    In no way has he 'paid his debt'! His sentence was waaaay too short. He should have had done to him what he did to those dogs and then, maybe, his 'debt' will be finally paid. And now he is back in the NFL again making the huge salary and back in a position to be a role model to children! That makes me sick to my stomach!
     
  14. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    I'm wondering if it's something about football culture, in your country and ours... we have problems with our footballers too, especially in their dealings with women. When you think about it, footballers tend to live sheltered, exalted lives away from a lot of the social rules that our teens usually get immersed in. They get plucked form obscurity and elevated to the staus of gods, almost, and are encouraged to do some fairly horrible things in the name of "team bonding". None of these of course publicly admitted to, but some ex-footballers have come forward and told their stories. But when these often imprssionable boys grow to be men, their attitude to women and anything lesser than them (in their eyes) is one of degradation, of enforcing that sense of degradation and of asserting their strength and virility.

    Obviously not all of tem. But some of them, certainly.

    We have a large number of Aussie footballers who are falling from grace. None stands out more than any other although a couple of teams specifically, keep coming up in the discussions of the depths of depravity. I used to face-paint for one team (painting with easy child 2/difficult child 2) and while our team was OK (and still hasn't got nay scandal associated with it) the team with the really bad name caused us a lot of trouble. We didn't see any of the players, but their fans were horrendous also. The police presence for that game was much more obvious and alothough we were placed well away from the other team and their fans, we still had osme problems with the other team's fans finding their way to us and causing trouble.

    One player, Barry Hall, is just one example of a player not fully understanding when he's done the wrong thing. He was for a while the pin-up boy for the entire football code, the TV ads encouraging promising young players to come study at the (fictional) Barry Hall Hall. He was chosen for the campaign because of his reputation as a decent person as well as a top player. The occasional incident (head-high tackle, striking, etc) was dealt with as, "these things happen, all players can be in the wrong place at the wrong time."
    Then we all saw on national television, Hall punched out a rival team's player. It was classic, it was obvious, it was a haymaker of apunch that felled the other player like an ox. The cameras caught it all. But what the cameras also caught was the crowd's shocked gasp, which was met by Hall's angry shrugging gesture which clearly implied, "What? Is there a big deal or something? Get over it!"
    When later questioned, his first comments were, "he was shadowing me too closely, I reacted out of instinct."
    The response of the football officials was, "if that is your instinctive reaction, you need to do something about your instincts."

    He is only one player. He is actually one of the better-behaved players!

    So I did read up on Vick and what he did, I was just as horrified. But I say the same thing - punishing just him is not the way. You need to look deep into the entire football cutlure, of the way stardom is created while boys are still too young to handle it. They're not equipped to cope with the fame, with the adulation, with the hero worrship and it goes to their headds and they think they can do no wrong.

    It's been said that some Aussie football teams are encouraged to have group sex with whatever female tey can persuade to assist. Some women are coming out and saying (afgterwards) that it was rape. Or that they agreed to have sex with one, but suddenly they found the rest of the team in the room and were too scared to say no. These women all reported attempts made to silence them afterwards, by officials trying to shield their team from the results of their own actions. And it happens over and over, with the same teams. We hear news reports, then the woman says, "Sorry, I made it up." Not beleivable, but what can you do?

    So we need to look at culture to bring about bigger change.

    For those concerned about the ad - it's a photo of a billboard. It has a picture of a person on it, not of an animal. Don't be afraid to look at it. But I do find the expressed fear of looknig at it, to also be an indictment on PETA.

    When are the models of the world gonig to wake up?

    Hmm... culture again?

    Marg
     
  15. donna723

    donna723 Well-Known Member

    Marg, I think part of it is related to the atmosphere of professional football and the whole macho "god complex" thing. But I think that a lot of it has to do with the gang culture and the fact that pit bulls have become sort of a status symbol among certain groups. Every little punk, thug and drug dealer has his pit bulls 'for protection'. A lot of them use cruel self-styled 'training' methods to try to turn them into guard dogs and to be able to use them as weapons. A pit bull is seen by these people as the ultimate 'bad dog'. Everybody is afraid of the pit bulls. So, in the eyes of someone like Michael Vick, HE conquered the pit bulls which makes HIM the most powerful of all! At least, that's my theory.

    There has always been a dog fighting culture and while they certainly are cruel and heartless people, probably even they did not torture their dogs to death for their own amusement! There just has to be some type of emotional disconnect, some human element missing in anyone who could do such a thing!
     
  16. gcvmom

    gcvmom Here we go again!


    Ditto. PETA does not have any of their own animal shelters. They would rather see an animal euthanized than kept as a pet or livestock animal. They are behind many of the MANDATORY spay/neuter laws that are being shoved down local government's throat in the guise of humane treatment. They are out to eliminate ALL domestic animals. Cats. Dogs. Cows. Pigs. Sheep. Chickens. They should all be set free, right? Don't get me started...
     
  17. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    Perhaps because we're less touchy on the topic of government controls, Australian government has laid down rules (becoming stricter all the time) on certain breeds of dog, getting banned. American pit-bulls are now banned from being imported, even half-breed pit bulls are controlled. Certain types of dog may not be on the street without being leashed and muzzled.
    It's still not enough and there are still people who have guard dogs for various reasons. But it's increasingly getting tightly controlled here. Guard dog training is carefully controlled and anybody caught training a guard dog with anything inhumane is in trouble. It's recognised here that the best guard dogs are the ones trained humanely, so they're at least 'nice dogs' for the handlers. Our police dogs are a great example - no crim faces our cop dogs with equanimity, but they are the gentlest things when out in public with their handlers, and not actually tracking anybody. Kids often go up to a police dog on display and give it a cuddle. The handlers take them home and the dog lives with the family.
    So if cops can do it, ANYBODY should be able to use humane training on their guard dogs.

    We also have dog fights here in this country. Those poor dogs are often pets that have been snatcvhed, or been bred by the dog fighters from other canine victims of this. However, it's difficult to keep breeding stock of fightring dogs when neighbours dob owners in to RSPCA and cops.

    But we have other 'entertainments' of similar sort (cane toad races, camel races, cane toad 'golf' which RSPCA is against) because people can always be inventive. When it comes to gambling, most Aussie males would bet on two flies crawling up the wall.

    I think your analysis of a man who 'conquered the vicious fighting dogs" is exactly right. But why would someone so successful in such a macho capacity, need to do this?

    You're also right about the really serious dog fighters - a winning dog is to be valued and bred from. A losing dog - it COULD fight again and do well and there's no reason you can't breed a fighter from it. But a serious fight organiser hasn't got the time to waste, torturing a dog. They don't do it for the enjoyment, it's just a business for them. A losing dog (especially an injured one) gets a quick bullet (or throat cut) and gets dumped.

    The problem with a lot of the legal cases you mention - you have to have proof. The people behind PETA use emotion to drive their campaigns but they don't seem to like evidence to get in the way of a good story. And they ALWAYS need funding, so if someone donates enough, maybe they will find something else to campaign about... just a thought, of course. SOMETHING has to explain their actions!

    There were times when even Greenpeace were doing some pretty ratbaggy things. These days they're a lot more politically aware and scientifically responsible. But then - I remember when Greenpeace first got started! (crikey, I'm old...)

    Marg
     
  18. donna723

    donna723 Well-Known Member

    Another problem I have with PETA is that a lot of shallow, empty-headed publicity hungry 'celebrities' make a big show of supporting it without having a clue what's it's really all about! They just think that supporting an 'animal rights' organization will make them look good and will be positive publicity.

    And anymore the HSUS is becoming almost a branch of PETA! The local organizations are mostly very good, the national organization seems to be completely losing track. THEY are the ones who are now pushing the idea of giving Michael Vick a second chance and practically making him the anti-dogfighting spokesperson, the poster boy for animal rights! I got their email about all of this and promptly took my little self right off of their mailing list! Gimme a break here! His fake 'sincerity' is sickening - and his whole TV interview about how sorry he is about what he did was done with a little smirk on his face! Am I the only one who noticed that?
     
  19. Nomad

    Nomad Guest

    My first recollection of PETA was many years ago when someone from their organization drove through our city in a "Weiner Mobile" and a bullhorn shouting something about how weiners were killing us.

    Now Janet, correct me if I'm wrong, but I heard through the grapevine that The Humane Society is supporting Michael Vick and that PETA is not. What I THINK (emphasis on the word T-H-I-N=K) may have happened is that both organizations wanted to Vick to do public service announcement denouncing dog fighting when he got out of jail, HOWEVER, PETA wanted him to under go a brain scan and psychological testing FIRST and I don't think the Humane Society wanted him to do these things. So, Vick refused to take the testing PETA wanted and agreed to do some work with the HS.
    Perhaps the Human Society just wanted him to serve his time in jail and nothing more. Nope...personally, I don't really care for this either. Perhaps in time...I would feel differently. It's just too soon and the sincerity is not clear. I would prefer it if he did some supervised community service at a dog shelter for awhile.

    Here is one article http://blog.peta.org/archives/2009/01/michael_vick.php. Has anyone heard more details on all of this???? So, I think I really don't like any of it, but perhaps PETA was asking more of him...although my guess is that they were going to use the results of these tests against him (possibly).

    I don't watch much news. Who knows the scoop? Another thing I have heard that doesn't make ANY sense is that the team that has hired him has a reputation for NOT taking athletes with criminal records. Well, this DOES NOT make any sense at all. I'm sure the fans will NOT like this one bit. However, I guess it gets him a place to start and then he can get traded. Something seems "up."

    With reference to the advertisement below $%#@...where is the People for the Ethical Treatment of Women????
     
    Lasted edited by : Aug 20, 2009
  20. donna723

    donna723 Well-Known Member

    The whole Michael Vick thing aside, lately the HSUS seems to be aligning themselves more and more with the ideas and goals of PETA. This has been happening for a long time, way before the Michael Vick thing even happened.

    And not that I am some big football fan because I loathe football ... but I too am surprised and disappointed that the NFL would welcome back a convicted felon with open arms! Like it or not, kids look up to these guys and make role models out of them. They are given the hero treatment and showered with attention and money! There has to be some sense of responsibility there, some conscience about who they are putting out there to be glorified.
     
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