Sent home again...
- Thread starter Shari
- Start date
DammitJanet
Well-Known Member
You need a self contained classroom Shari. This is so over with now. Its done. Stop beating a dead horse.
I dont care where they have to send him to get it, thats what he needs. Obviously they cant make one up at this school so he has to go somewhere else.
I dont care where they have to send him to get it, thats what he needs. Obviously they cant make one up at this school so he has to go somewhere else.
Shari
IsItFridayYet?
Reply from principal.
"At recess, Wee was throwing rocks at another child. Morning Para asked him to sit out for throwing rocks. Wee was able to sit out for a few minutes. Wee then choose to get up and walk away. He went underneath the playground equipment.
When the whistle blew for recess to end, Wee would not line up. When I went outside, Morning Para was standing on the green top and Wee was throwing rocks at her from underneath the playground equipment. I saw him throw rocks three times at her. When I arrived, he threw rocks at me two times.
SpEd Teacher came out shortly after, within 2 minutes, and Wee threw rocks at her. He then came out from underneath the playground equipment, pushed SpEd Teacher and myself and sat down on the bench outside. SpEd Teacher asked Wee if he was okay and he said, "No!" and then she asked if we needed to call mom. Wee replied "Yes" and SpEd Teacher said "Okay. Let's go inside and call." As SpEd Teacher began to walk by him to go inside, Wee spit on her. I proceeded to come inside to call you.
Wee eventually walked inside, following SpEd Teacher into the school. He then turned around and pushed her and then came into the office. Wee began to bang on two boxes in the office with his hands. Wee then sat down in the office chair. SpEd Teacher offered him a blueberry muffin from his backpack and he ate the muffin. He was then able to sit in the chair, eat his muffin and ask for a drink of water. He then helped clean up the crumbs on the chair and on the floor.
Because of the spitting and pushing, he is suspended on Monday."
The Cardinal Rule for dealing with Wee - if he goes into hiding, LEAVE HIM ALONE!!!!! God I'm angry.
"At recess, Wee was throwing rocks at another child. Morning Para asked him to sit out for throwing rocks. Wee was able to sit out for a few minutes. Wee then choose to get up and walk away. He went underneath the playground equipment.
When the whistle blew for recess to end, Wee would not line up. When I went outside, Morning Para was standing on the green top and Wee was throwing rocks at her from underneath the playground equipment. I saw him throw rocks three times at her. When I arrived, he threw rocks at me two times.
SpEd Teacher came out shortly after, within 2 minutes, and Wee threw rocks at her. He then came out from underneath the playground equipment, pushed SpEd Teacher and myself and sat down on the bench outside. SpEd Teacher asked Wee if he was okay and he said, "No!" and then she asked if we needed to call mom. Wee replied "Yes" and SpEd Teacher said "Okay. Let's go inside and call." As SpEd Teacher began to walk by him to go inside, Wee spit on her. I proceeded to come inside to call you.
Wee eventually walked inside, following SpEd Teacher into the school. He then turned around and pushed her and then came into the office. Wee began to bang on two boxes in the office with his hands. Wee then sat down in the office chair. SpEd Teacher offered him a blueberry muffin from his backpack and he ate the muffin. He was then able to sit in the chair, eat his muffin and ask for a drink of water. He then helped clean up the crumbs on the chair and on the floor.
Because of the spitting and pushing, he is suspended on Monday."
The Cardinal Rule for dealing with Wee - if he goes into hiding, LEAVE HIM ALONE!!!!! God I'm angry.
smallworld
Moderator
I'm wondering why SpEd asked Wee if mom needed to be called. I don't understand why they don't let him calm down and then return to class.
Shari,
From the response you got from the principal, it appears they did leave him alone. Wee came out on his own accord, but continued physical behavior one or two more times before settling in the office to have a snack.
He really needs to be in a self contained classroom Shari. The poor child is falling so far behind because they cannot and do not know how to help him. I will mention this one last time, but I have been right where you are only mine started with being kicked out of daycares and we knew before going into school he was going to need help. I never thought he'd be where he is at his age but he's getting an education and learning the tools to help him cope and interact appropriately.
Wee needs a highly specialized program, tailored specifically for him to help him succeed. The school has to provide this and if they cannot then they have to find a place that can and pay for it. I really don't know who you have to rattle there. How high have you gone up on the food chain? Or is all of this still being handled within the immediate school? You should have a Director of Special Education for your district. If this person is not in on what's going on with-your child and this school then you need to be in that person's office yesterday.
My heart breaks for both of you...
From the response you got from the principal, it appears they did leave him alone. Wee came out on his own accord, but continued physical behavior one or two more times before settling in the office to have a snack.
He really needs to be in a self contained classroom Shari. The poor child is falling so far behind because they cannot and do not know how to help him. I will mention this one last time, but I have been right where you are only mine started with being kicked out of daycares and we knew before going into school he was going to need help. I never thought he'd be where he is at his age but he's getting an education and learning the tools to help him cope and interact appropriately.
Wee needs a highly specialized program, tailored specifically for him to help him succeed. The school has to provide this and if they cannot then they have to find a place that can and pay for it. I really don't know who you have to rattle there. How high have you gone up on the food chain? Or is all of this still being handled within the immediate school? You should have a Director of Special Education for your district. If this person is not in on what's going on with-your child and this school then you need to be in that person's office yesterday.
My heart breaks for both of you...
Shari
IsItFridayYet?
Morning para was on top of the playground equipment trying to get wee to come out to go inside when recess was over. He handled his punishment (sitting out on the bench), and when it was over, he dealt with it as Wee does, he holed up somewhere. Which was fine (they left him alone), til the whistle blew, and then he had to perform on cue....that's where they screwed up. Again. By the time they actually left him alone again, it was already game on, and too late. One would think they'd know this. If they'd left him under the playground equipment and let all the other kids go in and let him come out of his own accord (as they've been instructed REPEATEDLY), he'd likely be at school right now.
Wee was booted from the daycares in town. He was sent to an early intervention preschool by this discrict from age 3-5 (where he was a model student, by the way). When he started kindergarten, this school district was not going to allow him one iota of assistance til he failed in their mainstream room, which was 26 kids to 1 teacher, no aids, so we pulled him and put him in the private school that had about 12 kids to a teacher. It went well til he ran into a teacher who was as inflexible as he is...then he was thrown out of that school, and we came back to the home district, for lack of any other place to go. They spent all of last year sticking him in a closet during the 3 hours he was at school....
I know he needs help. I can't make them get how to do it. I can threaten them with the law and penalties and whatever else, but that still doesn't make them "get" it. And all I can do right now is wait til Monday, anyway. I have busted my hiney to get him a TRAINED para who is with him consistently. They still refuse, they claim they don't want that para "wasting her time" being with him when he's working 1:1 with the counselor or the Occupational Therapist (OT) or the SpEd teacher or whatever. I'm shocked she was even with him today at recess...she hasn't been going to recess or lunch with him (another waste of time).
The situation now may be too far gone to be salvagable...but I can't do squat til Monday comes.
Wee was booted from the daycares in town. He was sent to an early intervention preschool by this discrict from age 3-5 (where he was a model student, by the way). When he started kindergarten, this school district was not going to allow him one iota of assistance til he failed in their mainstream room, which was 26 kids to 1 teacher, no aids, so we pulled him and put him in the private school that had about 12 kids to a teacher. It went well til he ran into a teacher who was as inflexible as he is...then he was thrown out of that school, and we came back to the home district, for lack of any other place to go. They spent all of last year sticking him in a closet during the 3 hours he was at school....
I know he needs help. I can't make them get how to do it. I can threaten them with the law and penalties and whatever else, but that still doesn't make them "get" it. And all I can do right now is wait til Monday, anyway. I have busted my hiney to get him a TRAINED para who is with him consistently. They still refuse, they claim they don't want that para "wasting her time" being with him when he's working 1:1 with the counselor or the Occupational Therapist (OT) or the SpEd teacher or whatever. I'm shocked she was even with him today at recess...she hasn't been going to recess or lunch with him (another waste of time).
The situation now may be too far gone to be salvagable...but I can't do squat til Monday comes.
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Shari
IsItFridayYet?
Straight from the BIP (which is not very good, by the way....) - When encouraged to complete an undesirable task or transition, the goal is to comply with minimal reminders.
Inteventions to be utilized to acheive the goal - If he is not distracting others: allow him space, speak briefly to encourage him to return to task, and do not require immediate compliance.
Maybe I'm off my rocker.
Inteventions to be utilized to acheive the goal - If he is not distracting others: allow him space, speak briefly to encourage him to return to task, and do not require immediate compliance.
Maybe I'm off my rocker.
confuzzled
Member
i really dreaded opening your thread.
i'm sorry for both of you.
in a perfect world, this should have little bearing on the situation...but i think you have to acknowledge that wee's behavior has
become injurious to others. the school has a duty to all of its students, manifestations of disability or not. i know you are trying to
gather all the facts for monday, but honestly, other than for that, the "whys" no longer matter. its happening, its a reality, and it needs to be dealt with immediately, for wee's benefit.
and while he does does seem to be falling further behind academically, i cant see how that should be your primary focus right now. from an outside perspective (and maybe i'm not here long enough to know), it seems like his behaviors have escalated to an extreme level. academics are important, but you cant put the cart before the horse---without some stability for wee this will continue, whether he's at his current placement or not.
has he seen the psychiatrist recently?
i know you are overwhelmed--anyone would be. i think, along with your information gathering for monday, you need to have a clear set of priorities and expectations. i read all your posts, and truthfully, i find your train of thought very difficult to follow...i thought you were happy to find a neighboring district which may have appropriate programming, then the next thing i see you are looking forward to a stay put. (i'm assuming its like a "streaming conscious" type thing where you post to think things through, and guessing you are very different in real life--i do the same, which is why i'm usually excellent at following along, LOL). i do think you are trying to address A LOT of things at once because of the situation, and i get it....but the school probably "wont get it" and will have their own agenda, and both parties will walk away really frusterated. its easy for someone to say "figure out the priorities"...waaay harder to do in practice. but time is now of the essence, and with dangerous behaviors in the mix, a very clear and strong plan has to be put in place....
and it does seem to me that regardless of what iep changes may be made as a result of monday, its nearing an impossibility to accomplish it at this school
i hope wee feels somewhat better now that he's home...
i'm sorry for both of you.
in a perfect world, this should have little bearing on the situation...but i think you have to acknowledge that wee's behavior has
become injurious to others. the school has a duty to all of its students, manifestations of disability or not. i know you are trying to
gather all the facts for monday, but honestly, other than for that, the "whys" no longer matter. its happening, its a reality, and it needs to be dealt with immediately, for wee's benefit.
and while he does does seem to be falling further behind academically, i cant see how that should be your primary focus right now. from an outside perspective (and maybe i'm not here long enough to know), it seems like his behaviors have escalated to an extreme level. academics are important, but you cant put the cart before the horse---without some stability for wee this will continue, whether he's at his current placement or not.
has he seen the psychiatrist recently?
i know you are overwhelmed--anyone would be. i think, along with your information gathering for monday, you need to have a clear set of priorities and expectations. i read all your posts, and truthfully, i find your train of thought very difficult to follow...i thought you were happy to find a neighboring district which may have appropriate programming, then the next thing i see you are looking forward to a stay put. (i'm assuming its like a "streaming conscious" type thing where you post to think things through, and guessing you are very different in real life--i do the same, which is why i'm usually excellent at following along, LOL). i do think you are trying to address A LOT of things at once because of the situation, and i get it....but the school probably "wont get it" and will have their own agenda, and both parties will walk away really frusterated. its easy for someone to say "figure out the priorities"...waaay harder to do in practice. but time is now of the essence, and with dangerous behaviors in the mix, a very clear and strong plan has to be put in place....
and it does seem to me that regardless of what iep changes may be made as a result of monday, its nearing an impossibility to accomplish it at this school
i hope wee feels somewhat better now that he's home...
gcvmom
Here we go again!
I don't understand why the SpEd teacher didn't probe further to find out WHY he was not o.k. Is calling mom the default for handling EVERY problem situation? Why can't they try to find out what the trigger was in the first place? By the description of how he behaved after eating the muffin, I might guess that his acting out was fueled by hunger -- a VERY common trigger and a VERY easy thing to fix.
I'm so sorry, Shari. They truly seem like a bunch of boneheads to me.
I'm so sorry, Shari. They truly seem like a bunch of boneheads to me.
Shari
IsItFridayYet?
I do realize this. My frustation lies in the fact that this scenario has played out time and again. In the beginning, the behavior was not so severe...but they continued to poke the bear, so to speak, when they knew dang good and well what would happen when they did, and he just ups the ante each time.
Again, I realize. I have spent too much time worrying about it from that perspective. I should have said the heck with Mallory and fought for what Wee needed with regards to that situation, but I was worried about that little girl, too. or worried about putting too much on the teacher, etc.
Wee's inability to read or be accepted by his classmates puts a huge amount of pressure on him from the beginning of the day. HUGE. Stablity is priority number one. School agrees, yet won't "waste their time" to help him be stable in their enviroment before pushing academics. Last Friday is a perfect example of that. Principal SAID that... At this point, it s a catch 22 for sure. The anxiety about being a failure won't go away til he can read and be accepted by his class...that won't come if he can't stay at school...members at the school don't "get" the plan that's been laid out, thus don't do it, and there's a good number of times I feel they don't even try.
me, too. I'm pretty sure I'm crazy. Venture a guess Aspie would fit. But I digress.
The neighboring district's alternative school has repeatedly told us they will not take Wee. They do not take out of district kids. Without that option, God only knows where they'd have to send Wee, so I was/am happy to at least think that there is a way around that. I am not looking for a stay-put. I will just not accept what the advocate initially thought would happen, which was homebound and 5 hours (tutoring) a week as a solution. Homebound for 2 weeks while they work out logistics to place him elsewhere? Fine. Homebound as a solution (which is essentially what they did last year)? No.
Agreed. The good rapport he had with the SpEd teacher is waning at this point. And once Wee loses that trust, gaining that back is very hard to do. I fear many of these behaviors are becoming maladaptive responses and habits now.
I hope this makes more sense.
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DammitJanet
Well-Known Member
There has to be a school someplace within driving distance of your house that has a self contained classroom for ED 7 year olds. If not, then your school district is going to have to grow one from the ground up just for wee. Or pay for a private school or private boarding school. Their choice.
I wish I had known more of this information when mine were young to be honest. I would have fought harder.
I wish I had known more of this information when mine were young to be honest. I would have fought harder.
Shari
IsItFridayYet?
Yes, actually, it is.
If he so much as growls, they usually call me.
Oh, and he's still Star of the Week next week, even tho he's now gone at least 2 days...that'll help.
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confuzzled
Member
i was in no way suggesting that wee is not YOUR only priority--other students be dambed.
(in real life, i really don't care much about another kid, only mine!--i just kinda pretend to be empathetic, but do try to be reasonable)
but its unreasonable for a school to make him their only priority--the safety of any and all students should be.
and i'm in no way suggesting wee not recieve a FAPE...but its clear he's not, and it seems pretty clear (in short of a miracle) that this school cannot provide it at his current placement. and again, there are a gazillion levels between where he is and homebound. and they need to find them.
i get what you are saying about the reading (by the way, i'd guess the star student was a misguided attempt to bolster self esteem!). i know nothing about dyslexia, but i saw you got good advice on the other thread...a change in a curriculum that isnt working is reasonable, if thats the issue. but it seems to me that its not a realistic goal right now. but i'm also going to guess that the school isnt going to be too interested in this componet right this second....don't fool yourself into thinking behavior isnt the star of mondays show, which appears to be a one-act right now...
as for the poke the bear part, well, again--theoretically i agree with you. i still think there are entirely too many people involved to consistently implement any kind of BIP effectively. you are asking laypeople to implement strategies that go against human nature...thats difficult for experienced professionals to carry out, let alone some part time para. it sounds, in light of the situation today, that she went on instinct, and yes, the wrong thing to do, but it makes her part of the human race, not an evildoer. again. from the other perspective....life has rules, and at some point, we are expected to conform to them...disability or not. its not reasonable to expect the whole school to resume the day and let wee hang out alone under a slide by himself til he calms down...the rule is, the bell rings, its time to leave the playground. (understand--i'm simplifying for brevity sake and trying to make a point,obviously he has safeguards, along with a personal aide standing right there...in place to help him with these things for a reason--but some level of conformity *is* a necessity in life)
and, by the way---you actually answered your own question as to what he needs (on the surface, anyway). its very telling that he was a model student in an EIP....unless its very different where you live (and, LOL, it very well could be!), i'd imagine it involved a small group placement with trained staff, that relied heavily on theraputic interventions, and lots of adult involvement.
depending on the model of his private school placement (12 kids), i can imagine how it could be disasterous, small group or not...especially if it was a parochial school that is very rule heavy and rigid--probably academically weighty too.
and i might be inclined to start digging around my file cabinent to find documentation from the old EIP to support my theory ;-)
(in real life, i really don't care much about another kid, only mine!--i just kinda pretend to be empathetic, but do try to be reasonable)
but its unreasonable for a school to make him their only priority--the safety of any and all students should be.
and i'm in no way suggesting wee not recieve a FAPE...but its clear he's not, and it seems pretty clear (in short of a miracle) that this school cannot provide it at his current placement. and again, there are a gazillion levels between where he is and homebound. and they need to find them.
i get what you are saying about the reading (by the way, i'd guess the star student was a misguided attempt to bolster self esteem!). i know nothing about dyslexia, but i saw you got good advice on the other thread...a change in a curriculum that isnt working is reasonable, if thats the issue. but it seems to me that its not a realistic goal right now. but i'm also going to guess that the school isnt going to be too interested in this componet right this second....don't fool yourself into thinking behavior isnt the star of mondays show, which appears to be a one-act right now...
as for the poke the bear part, well, again--theoretically i agree with you. i still think there are entirely too many people involved to consistently implement any kind of BIP effectively. you are asking laypeople to implement strategies that go against human nature...thats difficult for experienced professionals to carry out, let alone some part time para. it sounds, in light of the situation today, that she went on instinct, and yes, the wrong thing to do, but it makes her part of the human race, not an evildoer. again. from the other perspective....life has rules, and at some point, we are expected to conform to them...disability or not. its not reasonable to expect the whole school to resume the day and let wee hang out alone under a slide by himself til he calms down...the rule is, the bell rings, its time to leave the playground. (understand--i'm simplifying for brevity sake and trying to make a point,obviously he has safeguards, along with a personal aide standing right there...in place to help him with these things for a reason--but some level of conformity *is* a necessity in life)
and, by the way---you actually answered your own question as to what he needs (on the surface, anyway). its very telling that he was a model student in an EIP....unless its very different where you live (and, LOL, it very well could be!), i'd imagine it involved a small group placement with trained staff, that relied heavily on theraputic interventions, and lots of adult involvement.
depending on the model of his private school placement (12 kids), i can imagine how it could be disasterous, small group or not...especially if it was a parochial school that is very rule heavy and rigid--probably academically weighty too.
and i might be inclined to start digging around my file cabinent to find documentation from the old EIP to support my theory ;-)
Shari
IsItFridayYet?
This particular school sent Wee to this particular EIP. I have asked and asked and asked that they at least attempt to set him up in with something like that, and they just don't have the time or the resources or whatever. My next best solution was a full-time para that would be with him 8am-3pm. Its written in the IEP, but, until today, I know the para hasn't been going to counseling, Occupational Therapist (OT), morning SpEd pullout, recess, or lunch with him for at least a couple of months. He needs that continuity. It won't help now, but it may have prevented things from getting this far.
I've also had some personnel from the EIP in contact with the school...the EIP is actually helping me right now with info.
Oh, and the paras have never seen his IEP or BIP. School policy. I've given the paras info, but the school doesn't. They aren't included in the meetings, either. How can they expect them to be effective with no info???
I know I'm dogging some personnel. But I also realize the group of people there this year actually do care (last year's? no, they didn't.) But they are in over their heads, have been for 3 months, and haven't been willing to admit it or do anything about it except just get rid of him repeatedly. We keep having meetings, they write some cool things down on paper, and the same dang thing happens the next day.
As Fran's famous saying goes, 'do what you've done, get what you've got'.
Only some of them seem to think that today might be the magic day that throwing him out works again.
JJJ
Active Member
Shari,
Since your advocate seems useless, it sounds like you need an attorney with Special Education training.
In searching, I am shocked at how weak Missouri Special Education is. Any chance you can move to Illinois?
In Tigger's case, they basically created a classroom for him. We started this school year with just Tigger and one other boy and a third boy joined recently.
Technically, if it is needed, they need to create a classroom just for Wee. Was EI in a different building than where you are? Was EI a private school or a public school? If it is a different building, I would push HARD for them to create a classroom there for Wee.
Since your advocate seems useless, it sounds like you need an attorney with Special Education training.
In searching, I am shocked at how weak Missouri Special Education is. Any chance you can move to Illinois?
In Tigger's case, they basically created a classroom for him. We started this school year with just Tigger and one other boy and a third boy joined recently.
Technically, if it is needed, they need to create a classroom just for Wee. Was EI in a different building than where you are? Was EI a private school or a public school? If it is a different building, I would push HARD for them to create a classroom there for Wee.
