A child in our daycare who bites, bites, bites

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by MidwestMom, Sep 29, 2011.

  1. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Anyone have a guess at a diagnosis? She is hyper and wild and bites everybody. One mother complained to me that her kid got bit three times by this child yesterday. I have seen and read about a lot of problems, but never chronic biting. She has to have a one-on-one, but she still manages to bite.

    Of course the people say, "She has no discipline at home."

    I hate when people say that. A lot of k ids have no discipline at home, if it's even true, and their kids know better than to bite everyone in sight. Something has to be very wrong.

    If my kid was in the same class as her, I'd probably pull my child out. Hitting and kicking is one thing. Biting would bother me more. She breaks skin. I feel so sorry for her. She must be miserable.
  2. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    First - we don't know the home situation. Which makes it much harder to make a call on this.

    Second - the statement could be true - maybe this kid has nobody who ever really cared for her - not so much in terms of "punishment" (which is what most people mean when they say discipline), but in terms of care, and teaching, and so on. Which could mean a diagnosis of something like Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD).

    Third - it could be something really horrendous - like child abuse.

    If my kid was being affected by this one? I'd be calling CPS or mental health or social services or somebody... just to make sure that the kid/family is getting whatever supports are needed, because they could be falling through the cracks in the system and have no idea where to turn. If it ends up being a worst-case scenario and they have to pull the child from the home - that wil be their call. But... one way or another, help is needed.
  3. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Oh, since she goes to our daycare, I'm sure CPS is already involved with the family. The school is very good about reporting and then working with families. And it's true, we don't know anything else, but even kids who are abused don't necessarily go around biting everyone. She is a very strange child.
  4. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    I am sorry you have to deal with it, esp in the idiotic school you are in where you can't say no. Is that stupid rule still in effect?

    If my kid were one that was bitten, and school was doing nothing to stop it, not moving her to another class, not working to figure out what was going on, not even saying NO to her, I would call the police and file charges. Against the school for not protecting my child and against the child.

    NOT NOT NOT because the child needs to or would gain anything by going to juvie, but simply because no one was doing anything and the kid needs help. So maybe a judge would see something was seriously wrong and order evaluations, therapy and/or whatever.

    Speculating on the problem here isn't going to help. What do the parents say about this? Are they searching for help or do they think it is "normal" or even cute/funny? Yes, some parents think it is cute when their child is violent.
  5. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Well, I've learned that as they get older, there is a tad more sensible discipline, but basically yes. And our school isn't the only one using the idiotic method.

    I don't know that the police can or would get involved. But I would not let me child go to school with this child. in my opinion she really needs to go to a very special school where the other kids can be protected. These are mostly "normal" kids and there are a lot of them. I have a feeling she won't be there very long. They already transferred her from one center to another one.
  6. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    I truly don't know what you can do about the problem other than report it straight up the line. Using behavior modification techniques is not going to work unless it is uniformly used at home and at the school. Personally I think I would make sure to document every incident and then take it to the Director as proof there is serious reason to be concerned. Sending hugs to you and prayers for the little girl. DDD
  7. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    How are her verbal skills?

    How are her interactive skills with both kids and adults?

    Is the biting a form of retaliation (as in "fighting back) or invading personal space? Or is she just randomly biting?

    Depending on the answers to these questions, and probably many more I haven't thought of, very low functioning autistic perhaps?

    However, having run a daycare for years.........I've seen profound abuse/neglect in the home produce similar behaviors. Actually, in my opinion it was more the neglect than the abuse that brought it about, they treated the child more like a pet than a child.

    I've seen Evan do this, and worse. True he may have something wrong with him. But I tend to believe it mainly stems from a total (and I do mean total) lack of discipline and very minimal socialization. Actually, his poor kindergarden teacher is dealing with the same situation with him right now. :(
  8. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    She breaks skin?

    OK, that's pretty dang horrible. If the daycare does not call CPS... Someone must. because let me tell you, from personal experience, you can get nasty infections from others' teeth.

    Something's up. Maybe it's learned. Maybe abuse or neglect. But something.
  9. Steely

    Steely Active Member

    I don't know she sounds almost autistic. Have you read Temple Grandin's books? It sounds like her at that age. She was beyond wild, just like a feral animal.

    Poor girl. You are right, there is something very wrong somewhere. Can someone talk to the parents and see what help they have gotten her?

    What kind of daycare is this? I don't know any daycare that wouldn't have already expelled her. In Dallas biting in daycare was the deal breaker, especially if they broke skin..
  10. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    Yes, I have to say I am a little confused, MWM. What happens when the little girl bites someone? Surely she is not just allowed to do it? Why would it be necessary to call CPS or the police - surely she should be strongly redirected at the daycare centre? When J was about 2, I used often to hear about children biting each other, and seeing it - but not seriously, breaking the skin. How old is the little girl? Certainly her behaviour seems to demonstrate some disturbance.
  11. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    I'm w.DDD. If it's not backed up at home, it's hard to deal with.
    How old is she?
    Obviously, past the biting stage, iow, 2 or so.
    Strange child, indeed.
    Yes, if she breaks the skin, that's usually the beginning of the end.
    I feel badly for everyone in that daycare, but also, for the kid, who doesn't seem to be getting anywhere fast.Except kicked out.
  12. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    yes, how old a child is this? When one says day care you can be talking about a child who is just learning to crawl around to get to their peers and bite back when another baby takes a toy. I seem to vaguely remember mine doing that to each other a time or two but when the other one bit back...they stopped. I have never had to deal with true biters. I would think if this child is older than 18 months or so and does not respond at all to a firm..NO, we do not bite here...then there is seriously wrong. Ok, if you cant use the word no, how bout Susie, biting isnt nice! Stern voice.
  13. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    If a child comes home with teeth marks from another child, esp if it happens more than once and/or it breaks the skin, the parents CAN insist the police file charges of assault against the other child. Just because it happens at school does NOT mean parents have to let school deal with it. Some would let school deal with it the first time, some won't do that.

    It worked in OH when one kid first stabbed Wiz in the arm with a pencil, and Wiz was NOT a problem in the class at daycare at that time, not EVER (that came later). The other boy would just roam around the room hurting one kid after another - tackling with no warning from behind, biting, stabbing iwth anything at hand (he broke the skin on a child's arm with a CRAYON at one point. A regular, crayola type crayon. This is how violent he was. they said they couldn't kick him out because he had a voucher from social services to pay for daycare. I called BS and the cops because NO ONE assaulted my five yo child repeatedly with no consequences. They did go to the daycare and said that either they kept Wiz and the other kids safe or got rid of the dangerous kid or the child's parents would face the judge and so would the adults running the daycare. NOT just the teacher or head of the daycare, they would ALL be cited and taken in front of the judge.

    Here, when a boy kept attacking Jessie (had a crush on her) in 2nd grade, and not only ruined clothes (ran a marker up the seam on the seat of her pants while she was at the water fountain was the last straw) but had hit her several times the week before, I got the police involved. Each time I tried the teacher, the principal and the parents, but could get no response that protected my child. So I went to the police as a last resort. The pants taht were ruined were not cheap, but I told Gma not to buy them (why would you give a 2nd grader white pants in the first place? esp when the child was NOT a neatnick!) so that wasn't the issue. The problem was that he put circles around where he thought her privates were, and that is sexual assault here and is a BIG deal. We had enough going on at home with Wiz' violence, and were hip deep in help for him and for the other two. I did NOT want someone else's kid bringing in more problems. As it was, Jess had to take a water bottle to school because she almost passed out from dehydration because she was terrified to use the water fountain. I was beyond irate, esp after three calls to the family got NO results. I finally called the father's work - another parent knew he worked for a certain company. I insisted to the person at the company that he either called me or else I was calling the cops and he had that evening to get in touch with me. Dad waited three days, and then was angry because I called hte police. School was too, but what was I supposed to do? THe kid had been after her for months and nothing school did made a difference (and he got detention, no recess, no gym because he would go after her, all sorts of things were tried but nothing worked because mom thought it was "cute" and gave him more ideas.

    the cops did NOT think that drawing on my daughter's pants while she was wearing them was "cute". The mom had told the teacher that he liked her, no harm was done, and I needed to not be "so uptight". She told that to the cops too. They told her that her son was looking at a placement for sexual offenders because it was sexual assault and it had harmed my daughter and if she wasn't real careful ALL of her kids would be removed because they learned that all five of them did things like this to other kids.

    the parents very much CAN call the police. They may have to be insistent, as many cops look at things with kids as stuff school should handle. But if school can't/won't, they have EVERY right to insist on pressing charges. Frankly, if I were you I would advise a few parents to do this.

    I didn't go to police right away. I probably should have done it sooner, but I gave school a chance to handle it. Parents wouldn't cooperate and support the school, so the kids didn't change. So I did what I had to and protected my kids. I hated it, and I knew the other kids needed help and not punishment, but with-o the police/court forcing things they would not have gotten help.

    Learned last week that the boy who hurt Jess ended up living iwth his father about six mos later, as dad left mom and took the kids because she was telling them to do this type of thing. Now he is a teen, works at a local store and is the nicest, most polite young man you could meet.
  14. KTMom91

    KTMom91 Well-Known Member

    Maybe it's just because Californians like to sue people, but I'm surprised no one has filed suit against the parents and the day care, and possibly each teacher responsible for the child, for the damage, both monetary and emotional, caused by the bites. I'd be up in someone's face if my kid was getting bitten and the school didn't put an immediate stop to it. There's some definite liability issues here.
  15. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    This is a state run daycare center that has social workers involved with every family so CPS knows. She is probably 4 years old and has speech. I hear her screaming "I want to go home to mommy!" She does not bite in retaliation. In fact, she is kept away from the other kids, but sometimes pulls away from her aid and bites. She is almost like a feral child. Autistic? She could be. I doubt if that's all going on and, of course, I have no idea what goes on at home. I"m sure the school knows, but they aren't going to tell the teacher aids. The social workers deal with the familes.

    Our kids are all low income. If somebody tried to sue any of the families, there wouldn't be much there. I'm pretty sure that if the police could get involved, the school would not take her. She is such a rabid biter that she has bitten many kids and staff already and nothing has happened.

    She DOES remind me of a feral child. She has absolutely no control. Often her 1-1 aid is chasing her down the hallway. They do not punish her for biting. Our school does not punish. They get down to her level and say, "Biting hurts." in a stern voice. About it.
  16. keista

    keista New Member

    And the kid's thinking "Darn right it hurts! That's the effect I was going for you dodo bird!"
  17. Steely

    Steely Active Member

    Gosh, poor kiddo....she must be tormented inside to no end. Temple Grandin talks about feeling feral, and the only thing that would calm her feral instinct was to be wrapped up tight in a blanket. That is why she developed her own squeeze machine, which later lead to her great discovery in the cattle industry. I hope someone can truly reach that child....any chance you can work with her?
  18. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    LOL keista Unfortunately that's true.

    If Evan had his front teeth, I think his kindergarden class would be in trouble. He is totally out of control. Hitting, kicking, screaming, escaping the classroom, climbing on everything......... Poor teacher.

    This also reminds me of a great niece. She was a holy terror (seriously) by the age of 3. Every daycare in town had thrown her out because she was such a danger to the other kids. She was suspended from kindergarden endless times for violence and thrown off the school bus. Never did find out if hers was her mother (seriously a major difficult child herself) or a diagnosis or three. But she's like 16 now and it's not gotten any better. :(
  19. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Just because the cops haven't gotten involved doesn't mean they CAN't get involved. It means no parent has called them. Or pushed hard enough. I had to go to the police station and ask the chief what he would do if HIS daughter came home with her brand new favorite jeans had these marks that a boy made while she was at the water fountain? He asked why she "let him do all that" and I told him that he held her head down into the water while he did it. Circles around certain areas made him see red, esp when he realized the school didn't do anything but call Mom and take recess away. All the lack of police/legal intervention means is that either the other parents don't care that their kids are being used as chew toys or that they don't know how to push to get the police to care.

    As this is state run, there are HUGE pockets to dip into for a lawsuit - and I would be surprised if no one filed a suit. Heck, I know parents who would tell their kdis to stay near the biter so that they could sue the school district and the state. I am surprised that isn't happening where you are!
  20. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Well, I don't know the laws. And I really don't have much to do with this child unless I am subbing in her classroom.

    I have no idea the extent of services being provided to this family...just know that I'm positive they are on the radar of CPS.

    I have truly never seen anything like this child. I hope she IS autistic because, if so, there is hope...if she gets enough of the right interventions and if her family has a clue. In the meantime, it is hard to see her. It hurts my heart. At the same time, I fear for the kids in her class.

    Sometimes it's hard to work at a day care center. Because ours is state run, we can not refuse to take any child with a disability so we do see a lot, but this is by far the worse. It's liked she's trapped inside a wild animal...(sigh)