Answer to KJS

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by janebrain, Jan 29, 2009.

  1. janebrain

    janebrain New Member

    Hi KJS,
    saw your question about young moms on another thread. I was very happy to read your story. My dtr is 20 and had a baby boy in November. She seems to be at the very beginning of perhaps following a path like yours. I am hoping that her baby will turn out to be the best thing that has happened to her. She has dumped the boyfriend and she says she would not have been able to do that if it weren't for her son. She now has something and somebody to live for and she seems to be enjoying the sense of responsibility that she feels for him. I think her baby may be the catalyst for changing her life.

    So, in general, I think a young girl having a baby is probably not the ideal thing but in some cases it seems to be the thing that forces her to grow up and can be a wonderful thing!

  2. rejectedmom

    rejectedmom New Member

    I do not remember the author but there is a quote that always stood out to me it goes something like this "Parenthood is our last best chance at becomming an adult". While it does have alot of truth in it I do not think it should be applied to teen pregnancies or those involving a difficult child.

    That said having been a foster parent for many and a child advocate for over 30 years I have to say this. I do not think any child should carry the burden of being the catalyst for a difficult child to turn around their life. Far too many difficult child parents fail to make the nessessary changes and the child suffers tremendously.

    I worked with newborns and their single mothers for over ten years. I never pressured the parents one way or another that was not my job nor is it ethical. I had many mothers surrender their babies for adoption and I can honestly say that none did it easily but they definately did it out of love for their baby. Of those that did there were only two for whom I wished would have kept thir baby. I wished this because I felt they would have been very good mothers. They had good support systems and were good young adults that had unfortunately gotten pregnant under the wrong life circumstances.

    I had many difficult child mothers that kept their babies that should not have and most of these children were eventually put into the foster care system or placed with relatives other than the parents due to neglect or abuse.

    I have to ask isn't an unplanned pregnancy and a surrendered child enough to turnd one's life around if one is so inclined to change? I believe it should be and should catalize the change without putting an innocent child into a very difficult situation. -RM
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2009
  3. dreamer

    dreamer New Member

    I would like to chime in here. My mom was 15 when I was born. She was 17 when my brother was born, 30 when she had boy girl twins and then my youngest brother is 30 years younger than me.
    I have a male cousin that became a father at....13. Most of my cousins became parents between 15 and 20. One of my cousins owns a Fortune 500 company. Another is a doctor, highly respected with a lage practice.
    I was 30 before I became a husband was 40 when our first child was born.
    I was a difficult child, lived out on the streets from age 12. I worked several jobs all my life, and attended college classes continuously from HS graduation and into my 40s.
    When my mom had the twins, she was midddle class, and when my last brother was born, mom had achieved a level of wealth.

    My easy child is 18 and due Feb 22. My easy child was registered at a private university on full academic scholarships. She has been with her boyfriend almost 4 years now. Becuz she got life threateningly ill with her preg, and spent considerable time in hospital in July, aug, sept and oct, she transferred from the university and is now in our community college and living at home. She got straight as first semester and has been doing this semester online, and has already finished this semester in prep for birth. with straight as. I swear if one more peson asks me if I was surprised it was easy child who got preg and not difficult child, my head might pop off.

    Around here, it is alarming how many girls are mothers or who are preg. Last time I counted (last week) I think between my 2 daughters, 15 of their friends are mothers or pregnant. My girls run in entirely seperate social circles. There is some question about the oral birth control used. Possibly the low dose pill maybe.....rather than stopping pregnancy in some, instead provides just enough of whichever hormone to actually encourage pregnancy rather than prevent it? I don't know.

    I do know that the outcome can be unpredictable. People you might think have it "all together" do not measure up as a parent, and people you assume will fail miserably at parenting can surprise you greatly. I know far too many 30 yr old married women in high power careers that are not so great parents. And they get pregnant "not on purpose", too. And they need someone to help them thru the preg and child raising, too.

    I was jealous of my youngest brother. My mom was dirt poor and just a child when she was my mother. She was wealthy and secure when he was born. She was not playful at all with either of us, she was NOT a playful or fun person AT ALL. She was FAR more rigid and strict with me. My youngest brother is jealous of me. I had mom till I was MUCH older than he had her. My kids knew my mom, my youngest brother was not "of age" wwhen mom passed away (and his dad passed away when he was 11)
    Our middle siblings seem to be the least compassionate of all of us. But it is they who had "the best" of everything.

    When my easy child came to tell me she was preg, she was scared, sad.....nervous. I was, too. I still am and so is she. BUT I was going to be here for her to go to university, I am still here. I woulda wanted to be here for her when it was time to have a baby. And I am. And she still is getting education. And she plans to go back to her same job after delivery. (out on disability due to her illness) What "might have been" is not what IS. So very early in this preg we decided this is what is.......and overall Life is good......and new babies are precious gifts.

    I am amazed most days. These young girls are more supportive of each other than anyone was when I had MY children. On any given day there will be 1-3 young mothers and babies here visiting....the babies all appear healthy and happy. They are always clean. I live across the street from they tend to come here on WIC day. I also live on the route to the community college, so they also stop in on their way home from classes....
    These girls share babysitting and spend free time together with their babies in the yard in nice weather.....and the non preg non mother girls also still come around and join in the fun. So do the young daddies and daddies to be. When the weather is not so good, they are inside....and I get to snuggle the babies, too. Surprise, I have NOT changed a diaper...nor fed a baby....(unless I requested) and the girls have NEVER asked ME to babysit. they usually go so few places without their babies. They share the outgrown clothes and supplies and equipment. They go to classes. They work. About half have their own apartments. Thye are ALL under 20.
    One had a preemie, 3 mnoths early. The girls pitched in and took turns driving the new mommy to the far away special hospital to see her baby.
    One girl was homeless before she got preg, so young......15.....and her mom was a druggie (and also homeless, the preg girls dad died of an OD years ago). That girl has since gotten an apartment, and registered back in HS and has a job. The girls and the babies all seem so far to be doing good. One of the "babies" is already 5 years old.
    Maybe this is not what anyone would have chosen, but......Life goes on and everyne seems to be handleing things fine and the babies and parents all seem happy. Healthy. And on good paths.
  4. Genny

    Genny Worlds Best Nana

    I often feel that my grandson saved difficult child's life. She was 18 when she got pregnant, 19 when he was born. The baby's sperm-donor was difficult child's very abusive boyfriend. Even after the baby was born she tried to make it work, she wanted her son to have a father. But the night he tried to kill her - had her write a note for her son for after she was dead - she did what she needed to, testified in front of him and a jury, got counseling and never looked back. She had his parental rights terminated so that he can NEVER have any claim to T (though it will be 2015 before he is released from prison). If it had not been for her son, I honestly believe she would be dead. He gave her the strength she needed to get rid of her abuser...I don't think she would have been able to do it just for herself.

    difficult child is a wonderful Mom - she is a full-time college student, works part-time with autistic kids, and is always concerned about her son's development and well being. She takes him to museums, soccer, music class... she wants the best for him and works her butt off to provide it. I am so proud of her. And I thank Gd daily for sending T into our lives. He is just sooo excited about every moment of every day (really! it cracks us up). He is a blessing to us, and more importantly to difficult child. And to think - when we first learned she was pregnant we thought it was the worst thing that could possibly happen ;)

  5. dreamer

    dreamer New Member

    2 of us must have been writing our post at the same time. no I do not advocate any person difficult child easy child or otherwise to have a baby with intent of baby fixing or cureing anything. I only meant that if a baby is already on its way......sometimes things can be either direction. life is full of all kinds of surprises good & bad. all we can do sometimes is to make the best of things.
  6. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Great stories.

    Dreamer, your comment about the low dose BC pill terrifies me. Do you know any more about that?
  7. dreamer

    dreamer New Member

    I wish I had more info....but I don't. I know my easy child was on it.....i took her to appts to get it & it was paid thru our insurance......& several of the other girls were on the exact same......sadly easy child & at least 2 other girls also swear they also used additional protection at all times..........believable cuz we have a box of the additional protection here.....but.....who knows? as far as I know it is still just speculation.
  8. janebrain

    janebrain New Member

    I, like Genny, thought my dtr's pregnancy was a terrible thing--no way would she and the boyfriend be good parents or stable enough to raise a baby. I really chewed her out when I found out about it, said some nasty things to her too. But as the pregnancy progressed I realized that it didn't necessarily have to turn out so bad--that difficult child was raised in a stable, "good" family and she was talking as if that is what she wanted for her child. I had no illusions about the boyfriend--he already had fathered 2 children that he didn't see or support.

    It looks as if instead of being a bad thing my dtr's pregnancy turned out to be a good thing. I think she is a good mother and she loves her son. She wants what is best for him and this has given her the courage to leave an abusive relationship.

    I don't think her child is carrying any burden--he just happens to be what changed her life. I don't think he would be better off if she had given him up for adoption, he has a mother who loves him and is providing for him and putting him first, like any good mother would. I guess I didn't express myself very well--I am the one seeing his birth as a catalyst for his mother changing. His mother didn't have him for that purpose, it just happened. She could have gone the other way and continued in her gfgness. I'm glad it worked out well for both of them.

  9. rejectedmom

    rejectedmom New Member

    One thing that stands out in all your happy stories is the vast support group these young mothers have. They are hooked up to programs sich as WIC for formula and food for their child ad themselves if they are pregnant, They have accepting older adults around who open thier homes to them to socialize, they go to college and some have apartments of their own. I am not discounting the accomplishments of the girls you mentioned or others like them. I am truly glad that the stigma that kept so many unwed mothers living in poverty in the past no longer holds young moms down.

    In what follows I am not talking about any of your children so please do not take offence. I am just speaking to teen pregnancy in general since the initial request was for input and ideas on teen pregnancy:

    Teen pregnancy is on the rise at alarming rates. I do not believe that it can all be attributed to the lifting of old taboos. Nor do I think that it can all be attributed to the increasing sexual bombardment by the media. I truly believe that if teens realized that their lives would be so very difficult if they got pregnant before they were settled into adult roles they woud be more vigilant about preventing it. The fact is that many sexually active young adults are not using precaution or are not consistant in using it. This in spite of it being free and easily obtainable. Mulling this over in my mind I came to the conclusion that teens must think that getting pregnant is no big deal. The quetion then is, Why?

    Perhaps because over the years we have made things available to young mothers through social programs aimed at getting them out of poverty. I feel that these programs ARE necessary and DO NOT advocate abolishing them. But I wonder if by taking care of these young mothers needs we have created a Pandora's box. Could it be possible that young people today have realized that they can get assistance in the form of apartments, food and educational grants simply by becomming a parent and therefore are less cautious about getting pregnant?

    Indeed for some poor kids these programs and assistance actually put college and apartments within reach when it was not a possibility before the baby. What young adult would not want to live away from their parents in an apt of their own? But until they are of legal age and earning a decent wage they can't be on their own unless... they are parents themselves. Then they become eligible for program housing. So is the very thing we put into place to help our young parents also an incentive for them to become parents before their time? Something to think about. -RM
  10. dreamer

    dreamer New Member dtrs scholarships have nothing to do with her preg....theyre due to her academic accomplishments & her fathers military service. the one girl who was homeless no longer is not becuz of any agency but dueto her work her job & her childcare is thru co op with the other young girls/moms. wic is available for a huge eligibility pool....& many non teen non single mothers also get wic. yes these girls .....& the guys.....have found support.....first in each other.....2nd from adults parents aunts etc who know parenthood is the hardest job a thankless job but also a priceless labor of love & gift. & yes on occasion from public agencies & help from others who may have been there done that. is far from ideal. it is not what most hope or wish for. but it can go a little smoother if once one finds themself in the position to try to pitch in & make the best of things. I agree to advocate abstinance & prevention. I agree wholeheartedly. but once the horse is out of the barn you have to go from there forward. once a person....difficult child or easy child married or not no matter the age...... you cannot turn the clock back then. at that time 'what might have been ' or 'what could have been' is kinda moot. you have to work with what you've got... sure my pcs baby deserved a married settled financially family to be born to......but last ii knew babys wind up getting born to all kinds of families in all kinds of situations. & any situation can change....good or bad...even in the blink of an eye. I gladly open my door & my arms for anyone willing to try. willing to learn. whether it is learning how to be a parent or something else. when speaking of such young people it is true they are not yet adults. yes they do still need all kinds of parts of life. learning is lifelong.
  11. Ropefree

    Ropefree Banned

    Fertility is a sign of health in females and males. Reproduction is for women what her bodies are designed to achieve and her ability to do that is evident through the ages in the soil around the globe.
    For todays youth we have an on going situation where the adults who are leaving an environment that is destroying the conditions that are essential for all life.
    It is extremely competitive environment that we have co-created here on this globe and the youth who arrive ready to reproduce as have all befor them are faced with this condition. and she and he who will do it are mostly those who do not use any protective intention whatsoever to do otherwise with their own gift of life.
    Does the wic or welfare or even the famine relief "cause" a girl to become a mother? It is the old chicken and egg question. The gun or the hand with the gun question. The fact is that inorder to get pregnant requuires only that she is healthy and that she is impregnated. For all females past menarch wiether married or single or able or willing fertility itsself is just not a healthy factor for a girl or woman to base her future on in terms of when and with whom to reproduce.

    This generation has more options in SOME countries. And she, who ever she maybe, is under pressure from the environment: be it a male, or a theological system, or even her own biological and emotional urges.

    That there will be parents is given. There is no forseeable down turn on that. The charts today go straight up the graft. If all fertile females in a decade unanomously chose not to reproduce the graft will not correct by much at this point in time.

    As we are grasping the reallity of world population on whole the predicament any female who is fertile is facing as a future is daunting.

    What I feel needs to be done to aid these important considerations is how to create a lifestyle that is heathfull for females and allows their healthy condition of biology (the estrogen levels that are raised with regular sex with one partner that are what protect her health and quality of life) and also so that she is well occupied in pursuits that are meeting her needs (which include relationships, that is our unique female forte) and work...because history and currently women are renowed for her long hours of work everyday. without continuing to demand her to either reproduce in jeopardy of the planets resources, or to demand she desist reproduction (as in China with the mandates to abort/ or Indias abortion to achieve male births which are 1000 male births to 28 female due to use of ultrasound and abortion in the second trimester).
    The screwy situation for todays youth is compliments of the absteniance only lessons and the fact that it is way beyond a teen to see her female role in context of her own lifetime or the big globbal picture.
    As for males they are under extreme pressure as well as they have natural healthy bodies that are fertile and compeling and they need to have the self awareness and controls or what happens? They are fathers and they are not involved with those families. And they resent it. The burden, and the relationships that they were not intending and did not want. Including with someone who did not prove to be what they hoped. Men abandon their families across the globe, particularly when their wives are middle as well.

    When families do make the desition to support a couple in early teen years one hopes it is in consideration of the youths themselves. And in todays world having our childrens sexuality and relationships be healthy and not oriented to reproduction given population increases are not the best choice. Again not because growing a family is bad..but because the population density is no longer suited to big growth. those thirty five years women have of fertility are way beyond what is helpful. And we need girls and women who are aware of that and who are making THAT choice if and when they do it TO HER and TO HER CHILDS
    If the father is going to go all homocidal on her, then he is MR. WRONG. And plenty of females who are single and having children on welfare are doing that to protect herself and her family. Why? Because she was a chicken? Because she didn't have her hand on the gun? Because she was younge and cute or ugly?
    We have to HONOR the women and girls who are not having babies and we need to be there for the girls and the women at risk of unintended pregancy and we have to be more conserned for the welfare of babies and children who are being born for profits OF ALL TYPES. The wealthy are brokering babies...lawyers make some big bank on it. Surogates are doing it as well.
    If anyone is pushing welfare and wic to intice reproduction in girls it was the access the agenda of the abseniance and anti-birth control sectors do.
  12. rejectedmom

    rejectedmom New Member

    Dreamer please re-read my post. I did not advocate not helping kids in this position and I clearly stated that I was not refering to anyones child in my additional comments. The fact are such that in many states grants and opportunities are available to young mothers (as they should be). I was merely musing on how this MIGHT be attributing to the increase in teenage pregnancies.
  13. dreamer

    dreamer New Member

    rm .... my apology
  14. rejectedmom

    rejectedmom New Member

    Apology not necessary, I just didn't want you to be hurt. -RM
  15. dreamer

    dreamer New Member

    alls good. : - }
  16. Ropefree

    Ropefree Banned

    Rejectedmommy: Hooked on support? Like what farina in a cup? Fifty is a long long way from 12,13,14,15,16 and that age group that studies do show after grade 8 if educated and with access are likely to value their educations and futures and choose to protect their futures.

    with 35 years of fertility per girl it is a very very long streatch to blame wic and welfare for reproduction. Most states and most caring professionals will help a new mom get a birthcontrol system that will work for her if she slips throught the education process befor her first baby.

    nothingnothing will interupt ignorance and theological pressures on girls or women and it is cruel and extreme to target females as if their fertility is a comodity and sell her babies,broker those babies,or to squish her in the poverty of today over her fertility.

    Women are the most competitive of creatures and it is only we and our educations that will help make sure we do not fall for the supremist redoric that leads to war and massacre to make room for female fertility.

    Fathers do not take care of huge numbers of their own children alive today and women do need to educate themselves befor letting the men in polotics and in power to decide that yeah, we are encouraging them by letting them live.(eat,live iin doors ect)

    You may feel that cutting wic and welfare will 'make girls think' what will make girls think is an education and to get one you have to have good food. Not just cheap junk. Food, education, access and thinking people are moving ahead. it takes time. And the last eight years we had abstinance programs and access gag rules.
  17. Genny

    Genny Worlds Best Nana

    I think the main misconception is that teenaged pregnacy rates have increased. In fact, they have sharply declined by 49% between 1990 and 2004 for teens aged 15-17,and by 29% for thosed aged 18-19 for the same time period.

    The help that is offered - WIC, scholarships, daycare subsidies, etc. is hardly motivation to get pregnant. Unless a girl is living in extremely dire circumstances, having a baby isn't going to increase her standard of living. by the way, our difficult child has her own place because we help pay for it. We also help with tuition so she doesn't have to take out as much in student loans. She does get food stamps and help with day care - but her daycare subsidy is about to run out. We are fortunate that we are in a position to help her. Otherwise she'd have no choice but to either live with us or be on the streets. She could probably get on a list for Section 8 housing, which in this area is in a gang-infested high crime area...not where I'd want either of them to live.

    I don't mean to sound argumentative, just wanted to give my two cents - the idea that the programs offered are incentive to get pregnant is absurd.

  18. everywoman

    everywoman Active Member

    Meanwhile, my daughter is home recovering from a knee surgery she recieved while in the army, trying to serve her conntry, and she is without any income, any medical insurance, and no support from anywhere---it angers me that she tried to do the right thing---while her peers who chose to have babies as teens are attending college, living in apts/houses, sending their children to daycare, having all of their needs met on my tax money....
  19. rejectedmom

    rejectedmom New Member

    Genny your data is old. In the year 2006 teen pregnancy rose up alarmingly . CDC is not sure why at this point but cintinues to track the trend.

    2007 data is not yet available.

    As far as you comments about assistance as contributing factor being ludicrous, I suggest you look at the many studies done on welfare and how many people worked the system having more children in an effort to increase their benefits becaue it was easier than trying to find a job that would support the exixting family. Those studies are precisely why there are now incentive programs that are aimed at getting people off assistance and back out into the work force.
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2009
  20. Kjs

    Kjs Guest

    I really enjoy all the point of views here. And I can agree or disagree with any comment. For me, I don't know where I would be or who I would of become. I didn't have the chance to find out. I DO know that I worked very very hard and missed a lot of easy child's younger years because I was working so HE could have more. I wanted more than anything to make him proud of me. But, look, where I am now. Not in a very good situation. I have a good job. Thought I would get married, have a baby, thought I might even be able to be a stay at home mom. Instead, difficult child came into our lives. I was 32 years old, married, saved for the baby, had a home, planned pregnancy. Yet he is the biggest challenge I ever faced. I love my boys more than anything in this world.

    Now, I DO believe Welfare and programs are there to help. I had friends that told me to quit my job, live on welfare. I had a friend that bought a house while on Housing allowance. Yep..(before section 8) Get her HOusing check and turn it over for house payment. Yet I was working my butt off and went without many things.

    The system was there and helped me when I needed it. A short time. I do not think the system should be there to raise a family.

    Of all the things I have ever done, I am proud of how far I have come, from where I started. My parents were not poor. Good upbringing, good home life. Yet, they did not give me any money. They did not babysit. They pointed out programs, educational opportunities and I used those opportunities. Most included child care.

    I agree, children should never be used to turn around a life. Unplanned pregnancies are just that..unplanned. But you cannot dwell on that. You need to decide where you go from there.

    I know people that keep having babies so they don't have to work. And I see young mothers who work hard, get educated and become someone amazing.

    What would of happened to me back then if easy child was a difficult child?