any ideas

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Jena, Feb 4, 2008.

  1. Jena

    Jena New Member


    any ideas i know i posted this once before but figured id give it another try all of you usualy have such good ideas i cna't think outside box now

    i can't get this kid out of the house in the morning. usually i can get to the point whree she's dressed then i talk her into it. today it went to a whole new level she refusd to get out of bed she had terrible sleeping night fell asleep at one in the morning then was up middle of night she's exhausted adn nasty

    i've tried weekly rewards i've tried daily rewards. her response i do not care i am not going you can't make me........

    so here i sit totally frustrated i'm strating to get truly ****** to be honest. i can't live a normal life not at all. i don't wnat to scream at her which i just did out of sheer frustration or man handle her into truck to get her to bldg.

    is that what i'm suposed to do now carry her into truck screaming and crying?

    i'm confused adn tired i fear monday's every sunday of what waits ahead

    thanks for letting me vent any ideas i'l take them

  2. Coookie

    Coookie Active Member

    Hi Jen,

    I apologize for not being totally familiar with your situation but if this is the 14yo it would be pretty tough to carry her to the truck. Natural consequences comes to mind. Do you call the school and tell them she is sick? or do they call you? I think I would just be honest and tell them she won't get up and go. I know how hard that would be and how tough it would be on me.... people thinking I couldn't handle my own kid, but in reality... I couldn't.

    My difficult child is older and the hardest thing for me has been to step out of the way and let natural consequences be his teacher. I always seemed to run interference and if I had it to do over again I would have stopped a lot sooner.

    Like I said, I am not familiar with your situation and if I have spoken out of turn please forgive me but if your difficult child has to deal with the school she may look at things a little different. We can hope.

    Hugs for your weary heart.
  3. LittleDudesMom

    LittleDudesMom Well-Known Member Staff Member


    I believe you are talking about your little difficult child, the 8 year old? If I didn't fall asleep until one and then got up during the early morning hours because I could't sleep, I would be nasty too!

    There is no way that this little one can survive going to school with such little sleep. I know you are at your rope's end, but let's talk about ways to get her to sleep. I'm going to assume that it is not school that is the issue, but the lack of sleep and difficulty getting up in the morning as a result.

    I know that you are in the diagnosis progress, so there may be some help in this situation with medications soon.

    I think it's important that you have a structured bedtime routine that is not deviated from. It may take you away from other things in the evening, but it will be totally worth it if you and your daughter get a good night's sleep. Try setting a time, like 8, when she has to be in her room. If she has to have a shower or a bath, then start a little earlier. I would suggest a nice, quiet routine in her room. Perhaps the two of you could lay down in the bed together and you could read. I always had difficult child read to me for a little while, and then I would read to him. I would make sure that he was cuddled up in the covers and relaxed when I began to read. We always had a really good chapter book that we both could enjoy.

    After I read, it was lights out. I would stay about ten minutes with him and talk about or days, perhaps rub his back. Then I would go and he knew that he needed to stay in bed. No reading or playing or getting out of bed.

    This worked wonders for him in regards to his mood the next day. After several weeks, he got adjusted to the routine. We did this from second grade through fifth grade. Now his bedtime is a little later, but we still read and talk before bed and it really does relax and calm him.

    I hope some of these suggestions help.

  4. nvts

    nvts Active Member

    Have you tried the "Explosive Child" by Ross Greene?

    Try working it out with her. Try the phrase "what can we do that will make us both a little bit happy?"

    For example: "I'm not going to school and you can't make me". Well, we all know that you can make her (so does she! lol!). Instead of it turning adversarial try validating her feelings. "I know, I hate getting out of a nice warm bed, and I know that you haven't been happy with school. However, I have my job which is "insert whateveryou do here" and you have your job which is to go to school to learn cool new things so that YOU can teach them to ME!".

    NEXT: "Now, what can we do that will make us BOTH a little bit happy?".

    If she can't come up with something, give her suggestions. "I know, you go to school, I go to work, and then you and I will have some time alone when I get home so that you can teach ME all of the cool stuff that you learned today!" Be enthusiastic! If she comes up with "how about we paint our nails, try a new hair style or something else", go for it! What you want her to do is start giving YOU ideas so that she can work out better things for herself.

    Give it a shot, the worst thing that can happen is going back to the normal routine!

    Good luck! (Just to let you know, my nine year old is now using this tactic on ME! lol! )

  5. Jena

    Jena New Member

    hi guys

    thanks for the thoughts. i'm pretty upset today, it took a long time then when i got her in i had mtg. at school with pyshcologist who said to me you aren't helping her........i almost flipped out.

    they said you've weened her off medication's she has no therapist now what are you doing to assist her right now? i said i am brining her to columbia soon for testing.

    they said it doesn't matter what she has you are too caught up in that?! what matters is you help the symptoms. i said ok but i need clarification as to what she has. they said well it doesn't matter. i said yes it certainly does matter. i have two doctor's saying BiPolar (BP) and anxiety adn Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) another saying something else. they basically told me that the neuro pysch was a waste of money adn time and to get her to therapy.

    i walked out of school feeling deflated to say the least i parked truck on side of road and lit a cig. called office it was now going on twelve by the time i got her in. my boyfriend went drinving by he's off today and saw me and said wha'Tourette's Syndrome wrong? i said the usual. he said we're going out to lunch. he took me into his truck we sat i drank oh man new problem, right?? i had two margarita's and he spoke what to me is the truth blunt and honest shockingly so i was a bit taken back and lost my breath. he said

    there's nothing you can do to prevent this from happening

    you love her and do a great job and are so patient

    but she has several issues, you go do your testing but it is true you need to help the symptoms don't get so caught up in the diagnosis of it all

    she needs therapy to help her along to give her tools to deal with it all don't wait till you go to columbia.

    ok i'll write soon gotta go get her and yes was talking about little one.

    thanks....... :)

  6. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Jennifer, in my opinion (maybe some disagree with me, but it's my experience) School Psychologists are pretty clueless. How dare he say you "treat the symptoms." HOW? You don't even know what's wrong. I made a decision, early on, not to let the school get involved with my child's mental health. Most of that was due to how silly they were with my older three kids who didn't even HAVE disorders--the few times I tapped into the school system for help, they were far more clueless than me and not helpful at all. I'd ignore him. Seriously. You have an appointment. and you're doing the best you can. I would refuse to listen to his babble. He just wants your child on medications and easy for his teachers. And he has no right to suggest your child needs medications. Not all disorders need medications and not all parents choose to medicate (see Alternative Treatment). Sure, if you drug up your kid, the kid will be easier, but that may not be in the child's best interest. And until you know what you're dealing with, you don't know if medication is a good idea. Maybe I'm a bolder person than've never had any problem telling teachers, educators, anyone at school what I think of their advice. Basically, my attitude is, "I'll help you help my child. It's your job to educate him and I'll give YOU the advice." Trust me, nobody ever tries to tell me what to do with my kids, especially since, in the end, I was always right about them (it's amazing how some professionals think they know your child better than you do). I fought hard for the supports I got for my son--it was easier after his diagnosis.--but I had supports even before that. I wouldn't let what this man said ruin your dinner. I'd put it on "disregard" and wait for the real professionals to evaluate your child. Then I'd fight for the appropriate IEP. As for therapy, in my opinion until a child is stable and you know for sure what's going on, you may just get confused listening to a therapist's opinion of the problem (I know I've had so many therapist and really only one was good). You can try it, but don't expect any real progress/miracles until you know what is wrong with your child. I do think the label is important. It explains things and gets you help. A bipolar child and an Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) child need two different sort of treatment--and what works for one usually won't work for the other. There are many reasons your daughter may be the way she is. (((Hugs))) I sure know how intimidating school personnel can be--you have to learn to get rhino skin and not let them scare ya.
  7. Shari

    Shari IsItFridayYet?

    I guess I tend to agree with you Jen. You can treat symptoms all day long, but if you don't get to the underlying cause, you're never going to "fix"
    the problem at its root.

    In my experience, dealing with difficult child's has been a combination of dealing with symptoms to keep them as functional as possible right now, but looking at the bigger picture as the key to the long-term solution. I know school's an issue right now, but I'd want Columbia to see her in her un-inhibited glory so they can get a full view of what you're dealing with.

    If you have a brain tumor, and they only treat the headaches you get with aspirin, might make the headache go away for a while, but... You get the idea, I'm sure.

    Hang in there.
  8. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    I agree, as well, Jen. The school is looking for a quick fix to solve THEIR problems. True, some symptons might be able to be helped right now but it sounds like you are already doing the best you can with that. Other types of symptons- how can you know what will solve them if you don't know what is casuing them? We're dealing with similar issues with the school, too- just hang in there. It might help you to go talk to a therapist, start checking some out for your daughter, too, but don't delve into any specific treatment until you have a better feel for what is going on with her- JMHO!! :)
  9. flutterbee

    flutterbee Guest

    Two things:

    1. I was like you and refused to treat the symptoms until we had a somewhat firm diagnosis. I was not willing to just see how she would react to something. She was already spiraling hard and fast. A bad reaction to a medication would have put her over the edge. In hindsight, I can't say whether it was the right thing to do, but I went with my gut.

    2. I wouldn't give any weight to the school psychologist. They don't have the same training as a psychologist in private practice. Our school psychologist didn't know what lexapro was and thought that her anxiety was stemming from her panic disorder, when actually panic disorder is a severe form of anxiety. The school wants her medicated to make it easier for them. For a while our SD refused to acknowledge there was anything wrong with difficult child, but that didn't stop them from recommending medications. How stupid is that?

    Ok. 3 things. All the therapy in the world isn't going to help if you don't know what you're dealing with. If you don't know what you're dealing with you could find out that are using therapy to deal with symptoms that really have an underlying cause and until that underlying cause is addressed, you're just going to be spinning your wheels on working with the symptoms.

    That's my two cents.
  10. flutterbee

    flutterbee Guest

    Honestly, I would turn this around on them. If they are insisting that she is ill enough to needs medications and therapy to function in school, I'd be asking them why they haven't started the IEP evaluation. The teachers can refer for that, as well. It doesn't have to be the parent.

    Anything beyond school issues is none of their business.
  11. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    That's a good point Heather- I don't think they can - legally- give Jen a hard time at all if they haven't even started the IEP process, as they would be obligated to in this situation.

    And, at least here, school psychologist aren't really psychologist.
  12. Jena

    Jena New Member


    thank you so so much. i felt so deflated when i walked out of that bldg today.......and believe it or not i tend to be pretty this particular pyschologist i can't stand to be perfectly honest.

    she made it seem as though i wasn't trying to "help" my kid. wow that blew me away if they only knew. i said to her i have 2 antipyshcotic medications left that i haven't tried i am not medicating her any further till i know what the deal is. she said your looking for a "magic" answer that is never going to come. that not having her in any type of therapy right now is so so wrong and i haven't had her in any etc. (which i have repeatedly) i said first of all she was doing fine until november, she had 3 good months after taking her off seroquel then suddenly she crashed again without warning. i said i took her to dr. new pychdoc as soon as school said uh oh she needs immediate intervention and then she was diagnosed with bipolar and Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) and anxiety disorder the medication they prescribed didn't work. so hence we took her off.......which is where we are now.

    this is all new to me i must admit, yes i've been handing for 2 years yet we switched schools this year so a whole new staff to put in their place and iguess i'm just tired and i have to find my so to speak b*lls again (excuse the french).

    i was so so so mad and upset when i came out of there at her suggestion that i wasn't doing anything for my kid. it took him seeing me and all of you know the horrible ups and downs in our own personal relationship (boyfriend and i ) thru all of this, it took him sitting me down being as blunt as could be spelling it out for me and reassuring me that i am ok that i will figure this out and tha ti was doing the right thing.

    the school is amazing unless you have a "perfect" child right away their flipping out. then wait she commented on why do i not get her to school on time..........i said hmmm it certainly isn't because i want an extra cup of coffee in the a.m. i said this mornign she refused to get out of her pajamas it was a horror show boyfriend just says do you need my help i say no unless we're going to throw her in truck crying. so he doens't know what else to do he just comes and hugs me (his way of supporting me) i guess. he's had to remove me the past two nights from the floor in her room. i try to get her down yet it's very very hard then i give up i wind up falling asleep on her flr. then he wakes me gives me advil adn transfers me to our bed where difficult child comes in the middle of the night.

    i guess because i've tried so very many different medications and doctor's that now i feel weakened and somewhat vulnerable so when these ridiculous school pyschologists turn around and say this stuff Occupational Therapist (OT) me i let it impact me. i truly shouldn't.

    i;m going to try much harder to shut them off in my head. by the way my mom went at me again today also with the whole maybe it's her environment........ugh you'd think after years of this she'd just stop

    jen :)
  13. timer lady

    timer lady Queen of Hearts

    You're in a tough situation, sweetie. There's really no right or wrong way to do this. For me it came down to ....which came first the chicken or the egg?.... Well, I had 2 pretty looney chickens on my hands with no diagnosis & a lot of pretty outrageous & at times, dangerous behaviors.

    Having said that, I didn't have time to "wait out" the diagnosis & all the testing involved to get there. I had a husband, a home, a job (albeit pretty part time) & a family on my hands. The world could not shut down waiting for that diagnosis.

    Of course I used the book The Explosive Child by Ross Greene; pulled what I could use with the tweedles & put that into play here. With that I mixed in Parenting with Love & Logic (one of the most recommended for children with attachment/adoption issues) & things settled even more. Not that we were walking on a bed of roses but at least we had a firm bed time (or room time) establised, medications taken - no questions asked & a firm rule in place for physical, verbal, emotional aggression or abuse.

    Everything else was, like finding the diagnosis, a work in progress & remains so until this day.

    I'm here to tell you - we've been through countless medications; countless diagnosis's. It all came down to the psychiatrist, his specialty & his comfort level treating certain illnesses, disorders & syndromes.

    While a neuropych evaluation is a wonderful tool - there are times it's a bust. wm's last neuropsychologist evaluation could have been flushed down the toilet given wm's lack of cooperation, his trying to control the administrators of the evaluation & his outright meltdowns because he didn't want to do this again.

    After the first hour each day the evaluation was stopped & finally cancelled on the 3rd day. Then wm wanted to go back because of the prizes at the end of each day.

    Jen, thoughout this entire journey, we're flying by the seats of our pants. We may be working with a viable diagnosis, we may not.

    I look at what is working for kt or wm. If it's working - let's keep going, even if the psychiatrists & their ilk are calling it pregnancy. Don't give a hoot anymore. If it's not working - let's do more research & find another word for pregnancy.

    I'm sorry the school is giving you such a difficult time. They have their time constraints & federal/state reports they must fill out to justify this & that, yada, yada yada . Also there is that "self importance" to throw in a parent's face, just in case they arent' feeling bad enough about their children or themselves as a parent.

    Don't let it get to you.

    Day by day, one step at a time, on breath at a time. You will get past this stage......
  14. Jena

    Jena New Member

    thank u and you are very correct. it truly is flying by the seat of your pants, keeping fingers crossed, etc.

    i think all of you are teaching me patience to be honest, i like immediate gratification. i have a hard time staying in the moment and i'm being forced to by all of this which i guess is a good learning tool for me.

    I am depleting fast to be honest, it's taking alot out of me. I also have older difficult child who will be 15 who's giving me a run for my money at this point. she's totalling failing school. i can't drop ball on her at all either.

    so my therapist said i'm in crisis mode right now, she also said boyfriend is trying the best he can adn has made improvements where i have requested, that he is always there to catch me support me and be there that i need to accept his support and stop fighitng it so much. he has sense made an enormous attempt wtih both my difficult child's to be kinder quieter a bit etc. which has helped so much just in a matter of a few nights. the kdis responded well also.

    i also have this job that's really far away so i struggled everyday to get there via train today i drove 2 hours.

    i am still to an extent chasing my tale with the job thing, yet i'm so afraid to leave. boyfriend tell sme to quit that i could find local job for same money adn not get so stressed everyday by this as well yet im afraid really afraid it's the one constant in my life. yet it is causing me great stress everyday getting there. i'm not there or here as much as id like to be or should be.

    thanks for letting me ramble.