Back in pull-ups

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Sintori, May 30, 2008.

  1. Sintori

    Sintori New Member

    My daughter's daycare director insisted that I put my daughter back in pull-ups when she is there. After 2 years of fighting with her about pottying, they finally gave up. My daughter was upset when I told her she had to wear one to school. I told her that she didn't have to tell anyone she was wearing one if she didnt' want to. She goes to a new Psychiatrist on Thursday. I hope he is much more efficent than the last. After that I guess I will have to notify her school about her problems before she starts in August. I'm still in disbelief that we are at this point. I kept hoping it would be something she would outgrow. Her defiance gets harder and harder to deal with each day. I don't know what else to do.
  2. gcvmom

    gcvmom Here we go again!

    Well, if it makes you feel any better, I have easy child/difficult child daughter who started having nocturnal eneuresis at age 7 after two years with no problems. She's STILL having problems. Our psychiatrist thought it was anxiety because it all coincided with some specific family stressors (major illnesses), and she's got a history of phobias as a toddler, so he put her on low dose Lexapro. It seemed to work for a while, and now she's having consistently wet nights again, despite my waking her at midnight to go to the toilet one more time.

    It's VERY frustrating.

    Her older brother wasn't able to stay dry until he was about 10, so I'm hopeful this will end soon.

    Daytime issues are a whole 'nother problem. Often it's a result of not listening to their body (my difficult child 2 had this problem even in 4th grade).

    Does your daughter take any medications?
  3. Sintori

    Sintori New Member

    Her last Dr had her on Folcalin CR for ADHD, but she quit responding and the Dr was a moron. I took her off of it in March. I'm hoping the new Dr will help us with the rest of her problems instead of ignoring them. The problem is that she not only urinates, but also deficates during the day as well. She's also done it on the floor twice--once at home and once at daycare. She pooped in her pants twice yesterday, which is extremely unusual. I don't know what else to do until I can see the Dr. next week.
  4. smallworld

    smallworld Moderator

    Katie, I didn't have a chance to welcome you on your other thread so I'll welcome you to the board now.

    Sorry for the questions, but your answers will help us help you:
    What kind of doctor diagnosed your daughter with ADHD/ODD?
    Is she taking any medications? If so, what?
    Does she have any sensory issues (for example, sensitivity to clothing tags, food textures, loud noises)?
    Any speech or developmental delays?
    Has she seen a gastroenterologist and/or urologist to rule out physical conditions?
    How does she do at school, both academically and with peers?
    Any mental health issues or substance abuse in the family tree?

    I'm thinking you need to get at the root cause of her defiance and pottying issues to put the right interventions into place to help her. And yes, you should contact her school prior to the fall to have her evaluated and see if she qualifies for Special Education services. That might make the difference between a good and bad transition to kindergarten.

    Again, welcome.
  5. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    in my opinion, you should be looking into sensory issues, and possibly more than ADHD, rather than calling the child defiant. Many kids potty late--often it is due to sensory problems--not realizing when they have to go and/or not caring or feeling it if they are dirty. This is common with autistic spectrum disorder and some other problems too. I'd want to see a neuropsychologist. Late pottying is a red flag that something is wrong, not that the child is willfully disobeying. If ADHD medications didn't help that is a further red flag that it may not be due to ADHD. ODD just means definiance--it doesn't tell you why. I'd look deeper into the cause of the behaviors that you are explaining. Just as a precaution, I'd have the pediatrician check her out for a physical cause, however it probably isn't that. My closest friend had a son who held his poop until it was compacted. He had potty issues until he was in his teens, but he had a diagnosis. of Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD)-not otherwise specified. He is an adult and his issues have pretty much resolved, but he needed interventions, not just medications and therapy. Good luck.
  6. Sintori

    Sintori New Member

    We've been there done that with the Pediatrician. Other than an ultrasound on her kidneys--which would cost me nearly $500 out of pocket--she seems fine otherwise. The potty accidents don't happen everyday. If they did, I would think that it was the case. She still wets at night too, which doesn't bother me in the least. She can go shopping with us or run errands and go potty with no problem. Within 5 minutes of walking in the door at home she has wet herself. You can also "remind" her to go, and she will go, but will still wet herself 5 minutes later. At first we thought this was because she wasn't taking the time to fully empty out her bladder (caused by ADHD). My husband had an immature bladder until age 8 or 9, so that was our first suspicion when this started happening. But since it wasn't happening all the time until as of late, it led us to believe that it was psychological. Her therapist diagnosis that it was not physical by the mannerisms and things she was saying. For the first month on the medications she did wonderful! She started trying to please us again, which is something she had not done in months. She's not constipated. She goes to the bathroom regularly. Her grandfathers on both sides are alcholics (my father and husband's father). husband's father is the most active in her life and still drinks regularly. She has no sensitivity to loud noises, things touching her, etc. When she was smaller she did have a phobia about having things touching her hands (lotion, dirt, etc)--she outgrew that. She's behind in preschool because she was very disruptive and wiggly in the classroom. The teacher became so frustrated that she would just let her do her own thing while she taught the rest of the class. difficult child's classwork was never done and she is behind, obviously. We have no history of mental problems in our family. Me and my father have depression problems, but have never been treated with medications. I've learned to deal with them on my own. No developmental delays other than behind acedemically.
  7. Sintori

    Sintori New Member

    She was visiting a Psychiatrist and Psychologist Nov-Feb.
  8. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Well, jmo, but depression IS a psychiatric problem, whether or not you take medications and substance abuse is a big red flag for mental health issues that are self-medicated. I'd still take her to a neuropsychologist. The therapist can only guess and doesn't know for a fact that she is doing this because of defiance. That's the problem with these issues--there are no blood tests. As of now, si nce she is not getting better, I would take her to a neuropsychologist for a more complete evlauation (and, trust me, it WILL be more intensive than any she's ever had). Perhaps she still has poor bladder control, can hold it in while outside, but it comes out when she's home. Whether she has ADHD or not, in my opinion she probably has more too and the entire picture should be treated for maximum benefits. At any rate, that's what I'd do if it were my child. Good luck, whatever you decide.
  9. Sara PA

    Sara PA New Member

    Call me old and out of date if you want, but the concept that someone can be "behind in preschool" just goes against all I ever learned in early child psychology. The variation during preschool years from child to child about what they are ready to learn and the length of attention span is far to great. I am sure those inappropriate expectations are a major reason for the amount of ADHD being diagnosed.

    Age inappropriate expectations for behavior can lead to anxiety disorders.
  10. Christy

    Christy New Member

    Sorry that you are taking a step backward, so to speak. We've been there and is some ways are still there. My son (now 9) still has frequent nighttime wetting and occassionally daytime accidents. He wet himself almost everyday in the third grade. Like gvcmom mentioned in her reply, my son just refuses to listen to his body when he is engaged in something or over-stimulated by his environment. We have him wear pull-ups when he's going somewhere where he is unlikely to stop and use the toilet (like a party or his tae kwon do lessons). They are not noticable to others, pull-ups even makes the Goodnight brand that look like underwear on the outside. We got him a wristwatch with an hourly timer and had him try the bathroom everytime it beeps. We have just gotten to the stage where he will got to the bathroom without being prompted, but still has accidents when he is really focused on something like a lego project or an exiciting movie.

    I understand your frustration and concern but also agree with what SaraPA said about a developmental range so maybe your daughter needs more time in this area. Try not to make it a big deal for your daughter and just tell her they are needed until she is able to keep dry on her own.

    Good Luck,
  11. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Maybe it is time to see a developmental pediatrician?You say she is behind, though I reallyhate even teh concept that a child can be behind in preschool, or that they are "teaching" to preschool.

    Maybe a montessori preschoolll (a good one) would be helpful. My kids were in one for a number of years. With Jess they finally came to me when she was 2 1/2 and ASKED for us to get panties for her - she hadn't gone in the pullup for weeks. My oldest potty trained at 3 1/2 so I wasn't even LOOKING for potty training yet, LOL! (Blind mommy moment).

    I really do nt know if this is defiance. I would push for some testing, because there are too many red flags with this.

    Depression is a mental problem. Period. doesn't matter how you treat it. Alcoholism is usually a red flag for mental illness. Many alcoholics are self-medicating other problems.

    It may even be that being around an alcoholic is causing problems for her. She has to know something is not normal, kids always know, even when we think they don't.

    Personally, as the toileting issues came back suddenly after not being a problem, I would see a pediatric neurologist. You have seen the gastro, and don't think it is a problem with her urinary system.

    I am really wondering about the possibility of seizures. A sleep deprived EEG done by a GOOD pediatric neuro is really important. It used to be that anyone with an ADHD diagnosis got one of these tests to rule out seizures. With my kids, we went for the test when ADHD was suspected.

    Guess what?? My daughter, who NO ONE expected to show any problems on the test, has epilepsy. the siezures are almost unnoticeable, but they are there.

    Seizures will cause all kinds of behaviors that you wouldn't think were seizures. Heck, they are even starting to think migraine headaches are a type of seizure in blood vessels.

    I know how hard this type of problem is. Stick around, and please know that any suggestions/advice are meant to have you take what will help and leave the rest.


  12. Sara PA

    Sara PA New Member

    Abdominal seizures, a form of partial seizures, can effect the bowel and/or the urinary systems. I know that for a fact.