Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by klmno, Mar 16, 2009.

  1. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    difficult child got commitment to state juvy. My show cause had not been processed yet so it only came up when attny's told the judge that it was filed because I refused to obey her order. difficult child testified about cutting and so forth- he did himself more harm than good- his attny should have prepped him better about wording. I testified that I only needed a Certificate of Need to have him admitted directly into Residential Treatment Center (RTC).

    While I was on the stand, the CA asked me questions that I thought odd but after I was offf the stand and heard about the memo that PO had just sent out, they make sense. The CA asked about a week difficult child had missed school prior to Dec. I told her it was due to physical illness, I took him to dr and submitted a note from dr to school. She asked about previous mst order and I explained that we did cooperate, then I had MDE done and brought recommendations to court and mst order was removed and judge allowed us to pursue those treatments recommendations on out-patient basis. She asked when they stopped. I said they didn't stop- they continued until difficult child was arrested and when he was held, I had to call and cancel scheduled appts. She asked if when difficult child was in psychiatric hospital in Dec and Jan, did I notify the PO. I said yes I had called the day after both times, and the second time the psychiatric hospital had tried to contact her but she never responded. She asked if difficult child had ever been tdo'd from school. I said no. (I should have thought to tell them that they had called me before and told me to come and get him because he was completely out of control.) She asked if he'd only been tdo'd from home. At first I said yes, then I corrected that because I remembered that his first two stays in phhosp had been by a parental placement and tdo when we were physically at the county mental health dept.

    Then, the GAL brought up that the PO, who was not there, had sent a memo to all the attny's this morning that said the local detention program would not accept difficult child because of the charge being considered violent. She also said I had been uncooperative and refused services they had tried to offer and that I was more of a problem for difficult child than a solution. They seemed to all think- even the judge said- that the PO had gone out of her ways many times to go to batt for difficult child. (I am completely clueless how they justify this- those statements from the PO are lies and maybe people just assume she's telling the truth.)

    The GAL said that dss would be required to place difficult child with a family member- so the GAL was wrong about that before. She ssaid she did not think that would be appropriate and that since it appeared that "the mom" was the type of person who made things her way or the highway, she was concerned that I would pull difficult child from Residential Treatment Center (RTC) if I didn't like their program. Actually, I'm not sure if she was trying to relay that as her concern or the PO's. In any case, the GAL said the only other option was commitment to state juvy. So that's what the judge did, with an order that they treat difficult child for mental health. Whatever that means. They would have had to keep a psychiatrist minimally involved for rx's anyway, so I don't see that order mental health doing anything any different. He will be on parole when he gets out.

    Oh- the GAL said that I had done a lot to try to address difficult child's mental health issues but had not done anything to address my own and they thought that was a problem. Notice how when I was on the stand, she didn't ask me IF I was doing anything for my own and she made that statement afterwards, knowing I could not speak to it. She does know that I've been seeing a therapist. Maybe this was her way of giving the judge a doubt that difficult child doesn't deserve state juvy, but GAL didn't bring up any other option so I guess things turned out the way she wanted.

    difficult child's defense attny asked me if I wanted him to appeal, he said he doubted he'd win an appeal, the time to wait for it would cause difficult child more time in juvy, and the only option another judge would consider would be to turn difficult child over to dss/family. I told him to leeave it up to difficult child. difficult child said don't appeal.

    I asked defense attny if I could get a copy of the memo from the PO. He said he didn't think so because I'm not privy to statements made by officers of the court. He said that the problem with Residential Treatment Center (RTC) was that the court had no faith in me. I said that's why I wanted a copy of that memo- if there are things in it that aren't true, how can I address them? How can the issue of my competency as a parent ever get addressed if it never gets to a point where specific questions are asked to determine which one of us- PO or me- was making good or bad decisions or who's telling the truth. He said he's not my attny and cannot address that.

    So, I will get an attny assigned for the show-cause. I'll ask him/her. It might not get anywhere because that person will only be involved for the one court order I broke. Plus, a court appointment attny might never doubt the word of a PO. The GAL said that the psychiatric evaluation could have revealed "what's really going on at the root of the problem but mom refused it" and it was too bad. Obviously, they are trying to make me feel like difficult child being committed to state juvy is all because of that refusal. I will never buy that. (Keep in mind- what was going to be given was a written personality test to see where I deeviate from the norm- no personal history or interview/oral assessment.) Sending him home with a court orders for me was not the right answer for this. Plus, they already had those opinions of me, anything that might have showed up on that test would have made that worse and could have gotten difficult child into dss if they had some diagnosis that made me look horrible. Plus, if it had come back not showing anything major, it would have made difficult child look worse. I have no idea why the GAL felt it was better for difficult child to be committed to state juvy than to allow me to place difficult child into Residential Treatment Center (RTC).

    It is so hard for me to believe that she really believes that. She told me herself that she had tried to talk to PO and that PO was a person who just didn't believe in mental health issues. She also told me on the phone just this past Friday that she agreed that Residential Treatment Center (RTC) was the best and most appropriate place for difficult child. So why go in there and portray it like I might not cooperate and pull difficult child from Residential Treatment Center (RTC)? And say that I wouldn't deal with my own issues? It sounded like she was speaking for the PO.

    The judge said regardless of the issues between PO and me, difficult child was on suspended sentence and if he couldn't go to local program then he was committed to the state. She said she had to protect the public.

    Supposedly, they are doing a mental health evaluation on difficult child today to see if he should be tdo'd. It seems like another situation where someone- the PO- waited until right before court to submit something to shake things up and no one had time to look into the truth of things first.

    Am I off-base in thinking the PO wanted difficult child committed to state to get back at me? Any ideas why gal would go along with this? Was she just putting on a he11 of an act when she talked to me on Friday?

    Ok- I have known all along that PO has always thought all difficult child's problems were just me. Look at the parental choices she told me to make- that therapist/psychiatrist disagreed with and supported my decisions about. Why didn't the GAL look into this stuff before today? She knew this conflict existed.

    Sorry this is so long.
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2009
  2. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    I am so very sorry. Sending support and gentle hugs.

  3. smallworld

    smallworld Moderator

    I'm sorry things turned out this way. We will continue to be here for you.

  4. bran155

    bran155 Guest

    Oh klmno, I am so sorry. You tried so hard. You did your best. I think that PO had it out for you from day 1!!!! It's always the parents fault!!!!

    Hang in there.
  5. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    You know, the judge ordered that local detention program last year for difficult child, knowing that difficult child was not old enough for it and could not get in. She wouldn't let his attny appeal the decision and we all wondered why. Then, she called us back into court one day, changed her order and released difficult child right then.

    I will be appearing for court regarding this show cause. Is there any chance they are doing this to force my hand and that judge is going to reverse this too? EVERYONE in that court room agreed that difficult child has mental health issues that need addressing. It seemed like the nig issue was if I was causing them or not. So why commit him to state juvy? Although, the defense attny said it was because the judge had no viable option- that there was too much doubt about me for judge to allow parental placement. I just can't beleieve that the GAL lead it to that.

    A lot of this should come out at my show-cause hearing. But what then? Unless the judge reversed her decision it would be too late. Another thing I find interesting- all attny's and everyone else went in that court room before me to talk to the judge and they were in there probably 15 mins "briefing the judge on what has gone on" wiithout me or difficult child in there. Am I the only one who thinks there is something fishy about this? There was a cop in there, too. Not a bailiff- a cop- and I found that odd because this was difficult child's sentencing- he had already plead guilty. Maybe that just do that when there is a chance that a kid could get turned over to dss, I don't know. Also, there were about 3 other people in there, sitting separately who I have no idea who they were, but they were all in there the enitre time- even when difficult child and I weren't.

    Actually, I'm not sure the judge can reverse an order to state juvy- once the state accepts him, I guess it's done.

    When difficult child was on the stand, the CA asked him if he took medications and if he actually did take them. difficult child said yes. She asked if if they helped and difficult child said just a little. She asked difficult child why he preferred to be in psychiatric hospital right now instead of coming home and he told her because he was afraid he would do something to get locked up again. The defense attny pointed out that difficult child had fresh woulnds and asked difficult child how he did them, and difficult child said his fingernail. He asked difficult child if he had told me that he wanted to commit suicide and difficult child said yes.
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2009
  6. CrazyinVA

    CrazyinVA Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I'm so sorry. I wish I had answers to your harder questions. I can only answer the simpler ones... there are usually other people in the courtroom when I've gone, usually they are other attorneys just sitting in and observing. They're allowed to do that. There is also always a cop in the courtroom in my county. Not that either of those answers/comnents helps you whatsoever.. but there they are.

    If I could find a windfall of money so you could get an attorney for all this, I'd give it to you ... it's a great example of the neediest people not getting proper representation in court becuase they can't afford it. It's incredibly unfair.

    I'm here if you need me.
  7. I'm so sorry. I can't imagine what you are going through.
  8. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    How long is his sentence? They will evaluate him for mental health problems before placing him in general population. There are psychiatric wards in the longer term state facilities. Its not the ideal situation but it appears to be what you have got right now. Here in NC we have what are called Training Schools which are the juvenile jails. Detention centers are for short term incarceration under say 6 months I think. Maybe less than that. They are local county facilities. Training Schools are state. Actually they can be a help. Treatment does happen in those places. There are different ones for different type problems. We actually used to have a member here who had a son who went into a training school in NC and her son did well there.
  9. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    It might be enlightening to ask when you could get a copy of the court transcripts. As an interested party you should be permitted to get a copy, though you may have to pay for it.

    I don't know anything about proper procedure. During out court appearances the other people in the room represented the county DHS (Dept of Human Services - our foster care name) and the State DHS. They only spoke up if asked something directly or they saw a glaring problem.

    I honestly think this system has been rigged against you from the start. The PO is downright EVIL, in my opinion. She has been pulling strings behind your back for a long time. GAL is not impressive either - she seems 2 faced.

    I am so very sorry. Hugs.
  10. CrazyinVA

    CrazyinVA Well-Known Member Staff Member

    In Virginia, the Juvenile court is a "court not of record" .. so there are no transcripts, no court reporter is present. All you can get copies of are orders entered by the court. Things are typically pretty informal, at least in my county .. they follow standard court procedure but are also flexible with people asking questions etc.

    There is a central intake center here that evaluates you before you are committed to juvenile detention .. that is supposed to weed out psychiatric problems etc. I don't have a lot of faith in it, though, based on what I've heard from others who've had kids that go there. Then again, that was about 4 years ago... it might be better now.
  11. rejectedmom

    rejectedmom New Member

    I am sorry things did not go the way you had planned. I hate seeing a boy as young as yours going into the system. I hope he gets the care he needs and that there is a good outcome.

    I am not sure if you will be able to get copies of the court transcripts since it is a juvinile case and those records are usually sealed. I know that when my son got in trouble as a juvie we did get some records but they were censored. with paragraphes blacked out.

    Good luck in your own upcomming court issue. -RM
  12. CrazyinVA

    CrazyinVA Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Janet... the alternative placement recommendation would probably be decided upon by the intake center (it's listed on that page, also). Assuming difficult child goes there, the best bet might be to be sure those people talk to the psychiatric hospital staff and get that information.
  13. rejectedmom

    rejectedmom New Member

    Janet I read that as a good thing. Bran said that they stated that "it appeared that "the mom" was the type of person who made things her way or the highway, she was concerned that I would pull difficult child from Residential Treatment Center (RTC) if I didn't like their program."

    By remanding difficult child to juvie and letting juvie decide to place the difficult child the "mom" element was removed. I think that Bran's son will get into a Residential Treatment Center (RTC) eventually but like mine will have to wait till a bed becomes available. During that wait he will remain at the juvie facility not unlike my son who waited in county (adult) prison for his bed. -RM
  14. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I noticed when reading that page where some of those places are located. Intake and one of the placements...actually the placement that I would hope he would get if not the "alternative placement" are in the backyard of where I grew up. I think You are one county...perhaps two...down from where I grew up. I used to ride past that facility all the time but back then it was co-ed. My mom used to threaten me that I was going
  15. Star*

    Star* call 911

    I'm so sorry things didn't turn out better for you both. We're here for you!
  16. totoro

    totoro Mom? What's a GFG?

    I was kind of thinking like Janet.
    Maybe they will be forced to evaluation him further. Maybe they will see that he truly needs help and that these issues are not *caused* by someone.
    Do you know how the medications are supplied and given etc. Will he continue to take what he is on?
    Sometimes they do a psychiatric evaluation and change them up. Which should be interesting?
    I am so sorry. No matter how they try to beat you down, do not let them.
    You did not cause his issues.
    Even if after all is said and done, if they still think you are to blame.
    You hold your head up high.
    You are so much more than a Warrior Mom.
  17. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    I am sorry that the PO doesn't believe in mental health issues. Grrr.
    But I like RMom's idea, that your son will get Residential Treatment Center (RTC) eventually when a bed is available. It could all work out in the end, as convoluted as it has been.
    I hope difficult child gets the mental health care he needs in juvie after the evaluation. I've got my fingers crossed.
  18. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Oh I agree RM...if court ordered into a Residential Treatment Center (RTC) with the intake center saying it is what is needed and the state psychiatric hospital backing that up, MOM is out of the picture except for court ordered family therapy and visiting days. She cant yank him out. Honestly, this sounds like it may be a good thing.
  19. KTMom91

    KTMom91 Well-Known Member

    I'm sorry it didn't turn out as you hoped. Sending hugs and prayers that difficult child will get the evaluation and the help he needs.
  20. JJJ

    JJJ Active Member


    I too think this may be a blessing in disguise. PO is out of the picture for now. You can probably get your son's therapist/psychiatrist to send a report to intake. I hope he eventually ends up in a court-ordered Residential Treatment Center (RTC) as well. This could be very good as he will know that you can't pull him out and you can just be his mom with others being the "bad guys".