Daily schedule/credit system/rules

[sunxstone]

Hi.. sorry this post is kind of rambly. I just wanted to share what my partner and I have been working on for difficult child. I would love to talk to other parents who are using a credit system like what is used in Transforming the Difficult Child.

difficult child wants to control everything, he is defiant, argumentative and basically just wants his way and thinks he is entitled no matter what.

Some of this I have been using with difficult child currently, the credit system, for the most part, will be instituted after the move. Starting fresh.

This is what we've got so far.. still working on it. I know there are other things he can / does do during the day.. It's hard to look for the little things when it's big things all day long.

Using a bit of a few different things. I read about The Dilley family rules (they have sextuplets..sometimes difficult child feels like six lol) and they're very simple, seeing as there are only three of them, so we've been using them for a while. They are Be Respectful, Be Gentle, and Be Responsible.

Then we have the behavior chart from the last behavior therapist we had. (I loved her!) On that is listed. These are the "big" issues:

Helping Others (Be Respectful/Responsible)
Cleaning Room (Be Responsible)
Fun with Sister (Be Gentle)
Nice language (Be Respectful)
Hygiene (Be Responsible)
Talking with mom (Be Respectful)

These are the "no" behaviors, which we've reworded so they aren't "not otherwise specified" as difficult child loses it if he even thinks he's going to hear it. These all pretty much fall under "Be Respectful". These are The House Rules

No hitting/pushing/shoving (Keep hands and feet to self)
No yelling/screaming (Use quiet voice)
No threats (Speak nicely)
No arguing (drawing a blank here lol)
Be Respectful towards others things (no taking or using without permission)

We are using Transforming the Difficult Child by Howard Glasser and the credit system. I also found a few videos by a woman on youtube using sort of the same system and I used her example as well.

Basically difficult child will earn credits he can then later spend on anything from sodas, snacks, easy child or tv time, or he can save up for big rewards like a theme park, etc.

My boyfriend and I have come up with this much so far.. I'm still not sure about the amount of credits for each one. I know I want easy child time to be expensive, because I don't want difficult child earning so much that's he's got enough to spend hours on the easy child at a time. We want him off the easy child as much as possible.
We're thinking one hour a day weekdays, two hours on weekends, *if* he has the credits for it.

I've also laid out his day ala Flylady and the control journal, so it's more organized for him and he can see how his day is laid out

MORNING ROUTINE
Friendly, responsible and respectful toward family and pets 100

SHOWER (wash with soap, wash hair)
Shower 100
Shower without a reminder 25
Shower without a fuss 25
Hang up towel 25
Dirty clothes in hamper 50
Brush hair 50
Brush teeth 50
Brush teeth without a fuss 50

PUT ON CLEAN CLOTHES (pants, shirt, undies, socks)
Dress to shoes without a fuss 75
Without a reminder 25

MORNING RESPONSIBILITIES (Chores.. it's a trigger word.. so using responsibilities instead)
Bathroom floor clean 50
Toilet clean (swished and flushed) 50
Sink and counter wiped down 50
Bathroom done without a reminder 50

Make Bed 75
Make bed without a fuss 25
Make bed without a reminder 50

SCHOOL DAY (he earns a % based on his behavior, and that % we convert into credits)
100% - 100
90% - 75
80% - 50
70% - 25

Friendly, responsible and respectful toward family and pets (after school) 100

AFTER SCHOOL RESPONSIBILITIES
Hang up coat 50 (ok my boyfriend laughed at me for this one, because its *Cali*)
Hang up backpack 50
Shoes off at front door 50
Score sheet signed 50
Eat snack at dining table 50
Clean up table and counter (+ dishes in dishwasher) 75 (this may be worth more)
Books on your desk (not on floor) 25

HOMEWORK
Do homework without fussing 100

DINNER
Eat what is offered for dinner 100 (this, too, may be worth more in the beginning as it's such a huge issue now.)
Help clean up table 75

BEDTIME ROUTINE
Clean up for bed 75
Dirty clothes in hamper 50
put pajamas on 50
Brush teeth 50
Brush teeth without a fuss 25
Brush teeth without a reminder 50
Pick out tomorrow's clothes to shoes 75
In bed at bedtime (9:30/10pm) 75
In bed at bedtime without a fuss 25

The troubling behaviors such as the wetting and smearing I'm not sure how to address. He does it when told no or just angered in some way. The videos suggested taking credits away as a fee for cleaning up messes, but the book says do not take them away. He's not capable of cleaning up after himself for these behaviors. Someone suggested rubber or plastic mats and washable carpets on his floor to cover carpeting, which I think is a marvelous idea. We can perhaps tape just above the baseboards and cover the entire floor with them. Much easier to wipe / scrub clean. So that may be our answer.

Also want to add every day chores such as washing clothes, bedding and helping out with our weekly flylady duties. difficult child can clean up his hot spots, declutter. Debating an actual money allowance for above and beyond such as yard work. He also has the option to trade in his credits for a small amount of cash. 100 credits for a dollar, for example.. Still working that out.

Anyone else go with a system like this? How did it work for you? Any suggestions on what I might add, or anything?

Thank you!!

 

[Andy]

Hello! I am that type of system gal!

I set up something very similar with my son when he was 11 years old. It seems like ages ago! We made three lists on poster boards. One list for how to earn points, one on how to loose points, and one on what points can be turned in to. The how to loose was very very short and consisted on specific behaviors we were working on like touching the car door handle to open it before the car was in park. We did not focus or use that one much.

You are on the right track of taking away as much negative wording as you can. On your list you had two that still needed help figuring out: "No arguing" can be "present your concerns in a calm manner and accept the final answer" (make a habit of saying "Final answer" when it is given) and "Be respectful towards other's things" can be "Ask permission to see and use someone else's things."

I would be careful about starting something out with a large amount of credits to be lowered in the future. That is not going to go over well. Instead, you can add another smaller item of "stress free meal time" meaning that he behaved appropriatley and followed your home's meal rules. Similar to what you are doing regarding the brush teeth.

For the troubling behaviours of wetting and smearing, you are correct that it should not be punished. I can also see where it would be overwhelming for him to clean it on his own, however, since he is 12 years old, he is old enough to HELP you clean it up. Stay calm when you find it, "difficult child, I see there is a mess here, Can I help you clean it up?" Start by having him fill a bucket with soapy water and watch as you do the cleaning. Teach him how to dispose of the dirty water and what do you do with the rags you used? After awhile of him helping set up the cleaning process and cleaning up the products you used, he can be asked to help wash.

Working along side of him in as many of the chores as you can (or everyone cleans their areas at the same time) will help also. He will pick up a feeling of team work instead of him cleaning by himself.

I have to run now! I will try to check back soon to see how things are going and to offer more support!

 

[Andy]

Quick note: We used poker chips to pay each night. Three different colors had three different point values. (white = 50, blue = 75, red = 100 or something like that) Also helped in reinforcing math skills.

 

[sunxstone]

Quick note: We used poker chips to pay each night. Three different colors had three different point values. (white = 50, blue = 75, red = 100 or something like that) Also helped in reinforcing math skills.

Ok, I love this idea!! We were going to use little colored stones (usually called dragon's tears at renn faires) but this sounds much better. Thanks!!

 

[sunxstone]

Hello! I am that type of system gal!

I set up something very similar with my son when he was 11 years old. It seems like ages ago! We made three lists on poster boards. One list for how to earn points, one on how to loose points, and one on what points can be turned in to. The how to loose was very very short and consisted on specific behaviors we were working on like touching the car door handle to open it before the car was in park. We did not focus or use that one much.

You are on the right track of taking away as much negative wording as you can. On your list you had two that still needed help figuring out: "No arguing" can be "present your concerns in a calm manner and accept the final answer" (make a habit of saying "Final answer" when it is given) and "Be respectful towards other's things" can be "Ask permission to see and use someone else's things."

I would be careful about starting something out with a large amount of credits to be lowered in the future. That is not going to go over well. Instead, you can add another smaller item of "stress free meal time" meaning that he behaved appropriatley and followed your home's meal rules. Similar to what you are doing regarding the brush teeth.

For the troubling behaviours of wetting and smearing, you are correct that it should not be punished. I can also see where it would be overwhelming for him to clean it on his own, however, since he is 12 years old, he is old enough to HELP you clean it up. Stay calm when you find it, "difficult child, I see there is a mess here, Can I help you clean it up?" Start by having him fill a bucket with soapy water and watch as you do the cleaning. Teach him how to dispose of the dirty water and what do you do with the rags you used? After awhile of him helping set up the cleaning process and cleaning up the products you used, he can be asked to help wash.

Working along side of him in as many of the chores as you can (or everyone cleans their areas at the same time) will help also. He will pick up a feeling of team work instead of him cleaning by himself.

I have to run now! I will try to check back soon to see how things are going and to offer more support!

You are amazingly helpful, thank you!! I love your suggestions for wording. The wetting/smearing has been a problem for a long time, and I never thought to *cover* the carpet with something easily cleanable. Hard to see the forest for the trees!

Can I ask what you would designate for credit amounts? I know something like 5/10/20 will not get his attention, where as 25/50/75/100 seems like more to him, even though we are charging more.

 

[Andy]

I think we did the 5/10/25 but then my son was younger. You need to do what will work with him and the amounts will be fine as long as you find that appropriate balance of "cost" for the rewards. Staying in tuned to how this will be a positive activity for him is important. (I noticed that I refered to your son as 12 years old - I am sorry! - He is 13 isn't he? much more into bigger numbers than an 11 year old).

Keep in mind that there is no telling how long this will work. I think for us it was about three months before he started getting bored with it. In those three months I got a LOT of house work done (especially the bathroom and washing floors) as he looked for ways to earn chips. I had a long long list of options for household chores that he got to choose to do. I think a few days he did nearly everything on the list.

The limiting of easy child hours is a great idea - he can purchase as many as he wants but can only redeem so many each day. Another way to teach budgeting. Does he want to purchase them ahead of time or take the chance he won't have enough credits when he needs them.

Set a specific time for "pay time" and "purchasing time". You do not want him asking all day to purchase something - it has to be within "banker's hours". I would suggest at the end of each day go over what he earned that day. He can either trade them back in for the "reward" or you can reopen the bank at breakfast time when he has thought about what he wants. You can also set various times throughout the day for days you are all home.

You can actually pay him as he earns or just keep a running total to pay him at the end of the day. I found it easier for me to pay at the end of the day - it takes time to dig out the chips and calculate, ect.

He can RESPECTFULLY ask for exceptions to whatever is set up. He must be polite and expain clearly why he wants to do this outside of the set hours.

I think it would be fine to have some items be ways to earn cash. Especially the yard work. It is important to a 13 year old to start handling some of their money. You may want to make one stipulation that this can only be earned when other responsibilities have been meet. Or you can state something like, "Once you have earned ____________ credits, then you can work on something that will pay you cash." Otherwise he may only be interested in the cash duties.

 

[susiestar]

This is quite a list of items to work on. It may seem overwhelming at first, depends on your child. A system like that would make perfect sense to my daughter, but Wiz would be overwhelmed. Not sure how thank you would react. Make sure it makes sense to your husband. If you make your list on posterboards to hang up and also make a set of charts with a large size font and a space to write an amount in, you can put them in sheet protectors and use overhead projector markers on them. If you use alcohol in a spray bottle you might be able to use dry erase markers on them. They should wipe off but if they don't, or someone uses a sharpie, you can use alcohol to wipe them off.

But overhead projector markers wipe off with water. Staples has them. (My mom was a univ prof and used a LOT of overheads before powerpoint was invented. She brought these methods home with her.)

There is one thing to watch out for. Your son may decide he won't do ANYTHING unless you pay him. There was a boy with Asperger's in Ireland who wrote a book when he was 9 (it was published when he was 12). He described how his mother and therapists used the credit system. It didn't follow into his teen years where he refused to do anything, even get out of bed, if he wasn't paid for it.

This was a problem that reared it's ugly head with any credit/coin/token system we tried with Wiz. He would decide he should be paid for more things, and more and more things. And that he should be paying less for rewards or that his rewards should be bigger and bigger. If we offered a $3 book, he would want a $5 book, then 2, then 3 or 4 of them. This increase could happen in as little as 6 weeks. Going from one book worth $3 to 4 books worth $5 each happened in less than 9 weeks. He was 10. By the time he hit age 12 no reward under $15 or $20 motivated him to even brush his teeth. Quite literally he once said he would brush his teeth once a day for a week if we gave him $20 per week. He mean school week, not calendar week. He was incensed when I laughed. It was just ridiculous that I would pay him $4 per day to brush his teeth.

It was at that time he realized his teeth were not straight. A girl noticed. He then demanded braces. He still refused to brush, though his teeth were so yellow it was amazing mold didn't grow on them. Literally. Braces were not medically necessary so I refused to pay for them because he still refused to brush.

Be aware that he may demand bigger and bigger rewards for the same work, and that he may demand more and more payment. Not sure how to prevent it, but be aware it may happen.

Instead of "No arguing" maybe "We don't argue." It will keep YOU from arguing with him also. You can also use the word "Justification" when he starts to go into why you should or should not have him do something, or let him do something, or whatever. When my difficult child was in the psychiatric hospital it was one of the useful things we learned. After that time when he started in on us we would just say "arguing" or "justifying" and end the conversation.

We did NOT tell him "No arguing". We just said "arguing" and if we were on a point system we removed points. with-o telling him. He knew when he was arguing and that it would cost him points. We just mentally made a note that it would cost him points and wrote them on the daily chart later. We REFUSED to even discuss it when we tallied points for the day.

As for the wetting/messing, is he smearing on purpose because he is mad? They make those clorox disinfecting wipes. I would make sure he had them to use and then make him clean anything he smeared on. You can stand and supervise, maybe - MAYBE- help him start. But he is old enough to know not to smear his waste and old enough to not do it. I think it is vastly different than wetting (unless he goes and pees on things when he is angry) and he should experience some displeasure when he does this. The displeasure comes from cleaning. It is simply disgusting. Is he wetting the bed at night, or wetting the floor when he is mad? It is different to have encopresis and not know when you poop than it is to smear poop on things because you are mad, or even to poop in your pants because you are mad. Making sure he has enough fiber in his diet I am sure you are doing. Maybe giving credit for drinking miralax or a fiber supplement, or just using benefiber and not telling him might help. One member says her son told her the miralax pooped for him, he couldn't hold it. He had problems that stemmed from constipation. But if your son is pooping on things because he is mad that just seems different.

Though the casein allergy could contribute to encopresis if he is not avoiding casein. Is he also allergic to gluten? Many find that helpful, though you have probably tried it.

If the wipes get too expensive, maybe he should be using his credits to help pay for them. Or you could use paper towels and a mild bleach and soap solution or ammonia and soap solution (NOT bleach and ammonia in the same solution!! It makes toxic vapors.) to clean. Use a baby wipe container to hold paper towels folded in half and pour the solution in on top of them to make your own wipes.

Or use baby wipes. They are made to remove feces.

These are just thoughts. I hope some are helpful. Please ignore/discard those that are not - it will not offend or bother me. Promise!

 

[sunxstone]

Susie, I've taken a lot from your post, thank you for replying!! The way we are approaching this is, difficult child claims he is almost an adult, so he should be treated like one. Except he doesn't want any of the responsibilities of an adult. So he will basically be earning a 'pay check' for daily things, is how we are looking at it. He wants pop tarts, or a new game to play? Totally earnable, but if he's completely defiant and oppositional, he's going to have less credits to spend on these things. They are there, but it's up to him to earn them. He has such a sense of entitlement. Other family members have played into it. If he decides he doesn't want dinner, or wants something after dinner, he calls up his grandmother who will rush things right over as if we're starving him. :/

I woke up this morning thinking about those clear plastic painters tarps or covers? Going to look into those today. They would work I think for what we need to cover the carpet. Yeah, he smears and urinates when he's mad. We've had to throw out toys, books, his dresser, and now he's concentrating on one spot on the floor. On one hand I know he does it when he's mad, and on the other, I think its "I really like this show/movie, and I don't wanna get up to go to the bathroom". He did it with the easy child too until I moved their easy child into my room. We've tried hourly bathroom breaks but he fights me. I've thought of having him record everything on DVR and only watching things he can pause.

I've never heard of "justifying", I'm going to look into that, thank you! I do take away 'points' during the day - I give ask him nicely to stop (tormenting his sister, for example). If he still does it he gets a warning. If he continues I take 30 minutes of his easy child time away. easy child time is the only incentive he strives for. That's all he wants. Usually losing 30 minutes is enough to get him in line, other times he'll rage and end up losing more. Other than the big behaviors, I don't ride him on chores. I will ask him to do something, then walk away and drop it. I will check to see that he's done it, so if he asks for *anything* - easy child time, a snack, a soda, anything - "Yes, as soon as you finish what I asked you to do". So he's learned that he's gonna hafta do what I ask eventually. Same thing with the credits.. he may get bored with them, but if he wants his extras over love, shelter and food he's gotta get what we ask done. I think if we keep credits/prices the same and don't lower them we won't have too much trouble with him trying to negotiate.

We avoid casein at home. I tell the friends and neighbors, give the adults a hand out of what ingredients he can or can't have - then his friends give him chocolate or ice cream or something.. I send food with him, tell them make sure he just eats what I send, but they are 13 year old boys.. :/ I dont know if he's allergic to gluten. We had celiac testing done and it came back negative, but I want to get him completely re evaluated in California - psychologically, medically, allergy, everything.

difficult child is chronically impacted. The GI gets him cleared out with laxatives and 6 weeks later he's impacted again. It's behavioral, but no one seems to want to or be able to address it. We've had behavior therapists since he was 7 I think? And all of them have just gonna shrugged their shoulders. He's been phospitalized three times, and they didn't address it either. Just had him shower and change constantly..

I like the idea of using credits to buy the cleaning materials!

Sorry this is so messy and rambly. I'm posting quickly between kids off to school. lol
Thanks for your help!

 

[sunxstone]

Andy - thank you for the idea of 'bankers hours'. I know that's going to help a *lot*! That's part of what we are working on now, is what can he spend the credits on and when. We want to spend more time outside the house, get difficult child off the easy child and out from in front of the tv, so putting a limit on his 'electric fun'. Still just working all that out. An hour easy child time a day, an hour on the wii or playstation (we play with him), for a total of 2 hours electric fun time max per day? That seems like a lot.. I like 1 hour, and he can decide on one or the other. easy child time or Wii time? Make them cost the same.

Where I'm getting stuck is - we want to get out of the house more. If we tell difficult child "you have two hours max of electric fun time" - he's gonna want that two hours. Every day. Without fail. But what if we want to go ride bikes or hiking, or just go out and walk the dogs, or go shopping? There may not be two hours free every day. And that's where I'm sensing the tantrum will come in. "You have two hours max on days where that time is available" won't fly with him, I know. He will *expect* it to be available. Charge him double for an extra hour? I don't knooooow. This is where I'm making myself crazy! What we want to do vs what he wants to do adds up to not enough time and lots of tantrum. 10 hours of electric fun time per week (not counting weekends) sounds like a lot, right? I don't want to save them all up for the weekend either. Unless we do early mornings weekends. Argh! I don't know! Early mornings might work. difficult child is an early early riser. 2 hours a day per day on the weekend, one hour a day during the week? That's what I keep coming back around to.

Thanks for the heads up on the credits vs cash - I hadn't thought that through, and that makes sense.

You guys are *really* helping me with this, I appreciate it!!

 

[Andy]

Susie makes a very good point about how many kids will grow into wanting to be paid for everything they do and wanting more and more. Every kid is different. I didn't have that problem with my difficult child. It may be because once that list was finalized no changes were made - we never added more points to an item or made anything cheaper. We didn't add anything new to the list that he can earn points for. We had the "you have to list" of basic chores and then added the "You can if you want to earn more chips" list. The list can have a one week probation time to make any adjustments. Once he got bored with the list as it was then it was the end of the list - no arguing over it - if you don't want to do it that way, then you don't get to earn rewards. Then it is on to someway else to get the chores done. Your son has to be involved and interested to make this work. If he is still resisting what you are hoping the chart system does, then it will not work for him. If he starts trying to manipulate the chart, then it is of no use. I would say, "Looks like this is not working anymore. You can cash in the chips you have earned but you are no longer earning any because you choose not to use this as it has been set up."

To figure out the cost of items, add up the total that he can earn in one day and go from there. How much of that total do you feel is needed to earn 1/2 hour easy child time? If the total is 10,000, you will not want to have easy child time of 500 since you KNOW that is what he will do, purchase 20 times. I would make easy child time atleast 75% of the total.

I think another thing we did to help avoid the "gimme mores" was to make the rewards more about things that don't cost money such as family time activity. A trip to the zoo, a board game night, a movie night at home (he can purchase popcorn and pop seperately), an extra 1/2 hour of play before bedtime, an afternoon bike ride with mom and dad, ect.. I don't recall "wish list" of things such as games for the Wii, ect. Those he is on his own to purchase with the $$ earned for yard work, ect.

 

[susiestar]

Sunxstone,

Those clear plastic painters tarps are one idea. You could also use shower curtains. Those can be tossed into the washing machine with cleaner and then air dryed - if you cannot put them outside you could put an extra rod up in your shower and then hang them up, or toss them over the rod you already have in the bathroom. I don't know if the painter's plastic cloths can be tossed in the wash, or if they will stand up to the daily activities of a teen. Have you considered putting laminated flooring down in his room? You can get the wood looking floors for less than $1 per square foot. My mom got really nice laminated flooring for my kids' rooms (because they have asthma) for $0.89 per square foot. It was at a closeout place, but I am sure you can find a deal somewhere. Or look at a carpet place's outlet for a piece of cheap vinyl flooring. If you want to keep the carpet you could probably just slide it between the carpet and the furniture. We almost did that to Wiz's room because he kept taking food out of the freezer and keeping it in his room until it rotted. Pounds of cooked hamburger, etc.... He got tired of food poisoning after 2 attacks, the last one really really bad before we had time to buy the flooring, so we didn't do it.

One member here describes her method of parenting as "Do to Get". Essentially if her son's want it they must do something to get it. Not the basics, but extras or for her to do something. According to the law you must provide a mattress, pillow, blanket, lamp or ceiling light, clothes and food. You can do a mattress on the floor, but it sounds as if that might get really gross really fast. Unless you put it in one of those plastic bags for mattresses. No room of his own, even a door is optional - though privacy for bathing and dressing is mandatory. Members here who have removed doors have hung curtains in the doorway to provide some privacy for others who's rooms the difficult child's can see into. That is not mandatory.

Clothes do NOT have to be ones they like. They can be thrift store clothes. When my difficult child was in the psychiatric hospital we had HUGE entitlement issues. Though we were on a very very tight budget all his life, my mother sent a box with clothes, books and toys at least twice a month (the size of a box of paper or larger). Often she sent boxes weekly. The first 4 years of difficult child's life we spent less than $100 on his clothing and shoes. Of our money, of course. Jessie did not get as many clothes, nor did thank you, though thank you got a lot more than Jessie did. We lived less than a mile from my mom until difficult child turned 3 and she literally could not go to the grocery store with-o buying something for him - usually clothing. She brought him a toy at least 2 times a week those first 3 years. He felt that he deserved all that new stuff, and if we held it back from him my mother would ask him if he liked it. Then it was a rage. She finally did quit asking him, but he was 10 and we were living with her while husband was in grad school when she realized the problems it had caused. Or at least more of it.

The psychiatric hospital was HORRIFIED to learn this. My mother did not feel the history I gave them was complete, or that it fully explained him. She sent her own letter, that I was to deliver and it was sealed so I could not read it. The psychiatric hospital gave me a copy. It was amazing the spin she had on things. It was my 3rd grader's fault he kept trying to kill her. (He LITERALLY tried to kill her by choking her while she was asleep and couldn't get away from him and we were asleep!) It explained his entitlement and justification issues far more clearly than I ever could. To both the psychiatric hospital AND me. Her understanding of his life was something out of a bizarre novel.

The psychiatric hospital said the state requirements (6 years ago) were for a child to have 7-10 complete outfits and 1-2 pairs of shoes. These were to be replaced 2 times a year with a clothing allowance of $50 every 6 months. That included shoes. The psychiatric hospital took children that were in foster care to the local Goodwill to purchase their clothing. THAT was the mandated amount of clothing. I think they each got 2-3 sets of pajamas/nightgowns each included. I know that the max spent per child was $50. The Goodwill store verified this when I asked. (by the way, my mother was HORRIFIED to think that difficult child couldn't have new clothes a couple of times each month while in the psychiatric hospital. What if he got tired of the clothes he had? It was a MAJOR deal to get through to her. She even bought some stuff and took it to him with-o my knowledge when she went to visit him. She was NOT. HAPPY. when they asked her why he needed them and said he had enough clothes and couldn't have them (the shirts had dragons and swards, etc... on them which were big problems and the pants had legs that zipped off so they were not allowed, plus he had plenty of clothes already). I heard about how they were depriving him for weeks after that. (Even difficult child thought she was dumb to be that upset!)

Anyway, that is pretty much what the state requires, and part of our saga (LOL). Oh, food is required but food they LIKE is not. Fast food or restaurant food definitely is NOT required. So that is the minimun required. Any extras are just that - extra. Handy info is your child starts off with the "deprived" routine or threatens to call Child Protection to say you are neglecting or abusing him.

Hope you have a good day! Hugs!!

 

[sunxstone]

Susie

We are looking at the vinyl option, but we're going to be in an apartment for the next year, so it would just have to sit over the carpet. I'm thinking maybe double over the drop cloth and tape it down. My boyfriend found .. only way I know how to explain it.. saran wrap for carpets. lol Maybe put that down first, then tape the drop cloth over it. It will protect the carpet AND make it an easy clean up for all of us. Or a vinyl square with the plastic over it so he couldn't pull it up. We're considering both options. I'm just glad to have a possible solution to the effect atm if not the cause.I would love to go into this new apartment showing difficult child some trust to not do this behavior, but I just can't take the chance. His current room is *destroyed*. We took out the bed when he kept shoving food and poo underneath with toys, clothes, etc and urinating behind it. We have a loft bed with an open bottom with a small corner desk for him for Cali, so that takes care of that problem! (knock on wood!) Also removed the door about two or three weeks ago, he's got a blanket covering it. So we are *there*!

He does have a mattress on the floor at the moment. He will not leave anything on it, mattress protectors, sheets, nothing. He takes them off as soon as I put them on. I take the mattress out of his room once a week, wash it down, odoban it and let it sit in the sun til bedtime.

difficult child hoards food as well, I check every night before bed and every morning when he leaves for school in case he got up during the night. I never know he's learned the combination to the kitchen until I find something in his room. :/

I'm doing a light version of "do to get" now. He must finish what I ask him to do before he gets easy child time after school. It's usually every day type stuff that he cut corners on to begin with - wash hair, pick up dirty clothes and put them *in* the hamper, not *next* to the hamper, put clothes in washer/dryer, scrape plate out and put it in the sink, etc. All difficult child wants is easy child time. He plays an online game and he obsesses over it. It's all he talks about! So I use that to get him to do what he needs to pretty quickly. easy child time starts at 5, if he's not finished he doesn't get that time back. He really doesn't ask for anything else besides fast food, music cd's or easy child games, those are his things. He could care less about clothes (he'd rather wear his school uniforms than casual clothes, and the uniforms are NOT moving with us! He won't need them!) and he has no idea about brand names or anything. Good to know what we are legally liable for in case he does pull that on us. He had soo much stuff, but he ruined or broke most of it. He took a baseball bat to one of his plastic toys the other day in the yard because he was "bored with it" and didn't want it anymore. :/ I've explained we can garage sale that kind of thing and he'd have money, but he said he didn't want to, he'd rather break it.

We used to get all our kids clothes from a resale shop and I'd get 2 or 3 bags full for less than $100 and it would last a couple seasons or even a year, but they carry mostly baby/toddler sizes, so don't go there much anymore. My ex mother in law sounds much like yours, but I think you got the rougher deal! I'm sorry you had to go through that. It's very aggravating when they *see* this stuff but they don't *get* it. Ex mother in law would hand casein allergic difficult child a piece of candy and send him to me to check it and tell him if he could have it. Turn it over and see M I L K in big letters on the back. It's not that hard!! Big rage from difficult child, and I'm the bad guy.. yup.. been there! We lived with ex mother in law for 6 years, then moved just 2 miles away. 1500 miles distance CANNOT come fast enough!! Ex mother in law believes neither child gets enough to eat ever. Kids don't like what's served for dinner, they call Gramma and she brings them McDonalds or subway or whatever they want!

I heard that before, about "We are legally required to feed you. We don't have to make sure you like it." We offer healthy food, most times difficult child just chooses not to eat it, even if it's something he likesand Gramma rushes in to the rescue. :/ Why is difficult child gonna eat home made food if fast food is a phone call away? Distance and cooperation will help that. My boyfriends says "Watch him try that with my parents.. Their phones will mysteriously stop accepting calls." So that's good!

There is *awesome* stuff at Goodwill/thrift stores! I'm not worried about that. What do you suggest though, for difficult child who often goes through a pair of shoes in under a month? He tears them apart and pokes holes in the soles with pens, etc. Would you recommend he replace these himself with cash he earns? We'll buy two pairs of shoes per six months, and anything beyond those two pairs is on him?

And yeah, he's threatened to call CPS on us several times all ready for threatening him (This is a threat to difficult child: "If you do not get your dishes in the sink like I asked, you will not get your easy child time." "STOP THREATENING ME!!!") and for denying/neglecting him (not buying pop tarts. This is an ongoing thing.)

So.. fast food/going out to eat.. credits? Can we go out to eat as a family on us as a reward or is that messing with the system? It seems so complicated I just can't wrap my head around it all. I *know* this will work for him. I just gotta get it laid out in clear terms for *all* of us.

 

[Andy]

easy child times can be set - If you choose to use your easy child or Wii time today, you have from 6:00 am - 7:00 am or 8:30 pm - 9:30 pm. On non-school days, you can add another time during the day such as from 2:00 - 3:00 or 3:00 to 4:00. Keep each session at 1 hour.

Is he good about getting off the easy child when asked to? Sometimes those early morning activities cause more tension and fights when the kid will not stop when time is up. If you do use the early morning slot, let him know that as soon as there is an issue of him ending when he is suppose to then that option will be eliminated. I always told my kids that if I can not get them to stop something than I would not allow them to start it.

 

[sunxstone]

Andy -

Getting him off the easy child is sometimes easy, and sometimes he tantrums. I never really know how it's going to be. He does not like updates on his time (You have twenty minutes to go), but I know he'll be more upset if I just 'pull the plug' on him at 7, because then I'm 'rushing him off'. But I've instituted that if he gets off *after* his finish time of 7 PM, say, 7:15, I will double that, meaning he does not start the next day at 5:00, he starts at 5:30. It's working, but there's still back talk and bad mood. He's got good days and off days.. If he's having a really off day and just raging constantly I'll take his time away completely and he can try again the next day.

Week days he gets on at 5 PM - 7 PM. We tried mornings before school and he would rush the shower, not wash his hair, not eat breakfast and then run late for the bus, so.. no more mornings. Weekends he gets his time out of the way early. I'm more lax on the weekends, if he wants to get himself up at 5 am and stay on til 8 or 9 when I get up, as long as he's playing quietly, it's fine. This will change with the credit system in place, and he is *not* gonna like it!

I *do* like the one hour increments, and I'm thinking 500 credits, or 1000 credits per hour is good. I need to sit and add his points up and see what he's capable of earning on a single day. The list isn't finished yet, I'm still adding to it so it's iffy still.

 

[Andy]

So it does sound like before school is not going to be an option. Maybe on school days during the winter 5pm - 7pm was o.k., however, I would push it closer to bed time on non-school days and the Summer. Those can be some prime family time or helping with supper or outdoor time for non-school days. That is where you will run into the problems of "But you said" and you are trying to say, "But we want to do ...... tonight". Make easy child time as far away from any other possible activities as you can. Usually later in the evening when you KNOW that no one in the family will be running anywhere and you will be less likely to ask anything of difficult child. I would have it end atleast 1/2 hour before bedtime. (I hope this is making sense)

I do like how you deduct time used over and beyond from the next time slot.

If he has done well during the week, I would consider allowing him to have more time on Saturday mornings with the rule that once YOU are up for the day the easy child gets turned off and he joins the family in Saturday morning responsibilities, errands, exercising, whatever you have planned for that day. It will be hard for you to regulate otherwise. As long as he is not disturbing the household, let Saturday early morning be his free time. Maybe don't even make him pay for the easy child or other quiet activities he chooses to do before the family's day begins on Saturdays. We all have to feel some freedom in our lives.

I am leaving tomorrow morning for our Easter family trip. I don't know if I will have a chance before Sunday evening to check in again. Have a GREAT weekend.

 

[sunxstone]

Have a safe trip and a great weekend Andy!