Daughter reached out- I responded-Having hard time

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by Blindsided, Aug 22, 2019.

  1. Blindsided

    Blindsided Face the Sun

    A short background since I am fairly new. 40 y/o daughter addicted to alcohol, adderall, gambling. Doesn't work. Couch surfing for past 3 years or so over . She in Nevada. Currently we are in Missouri, our home state but will be in AZ winter/spring.

    She sent this.

    I thought this was our song? What happened? I miss my mom.
    I'll Be reba mcentire i'll be - Google Search

    I replied

    May, I have learned I cant control, change, or cure anyone's thoughts or behaviors. It's too painful to me to hear my daughter give up. That's why I have had to distance myself.
    I am still here to support your efforts to be healthy, affirmative, and independent.
    I miss my daughter. I love you

    Her response

    You will probably never see the daughter that only listens to your illness anymore

    ----------

    I am having a really hard time. It just never changes. Very sad ANY support, advice, welcome.
     
  2. WiseChoices

    WiseChoices Active Member

    Hi! Welcome! I don't know a lot of the background story here, but you tagged personality disorder. It is very common for Borderline (BPD) patients to accuse others of having the disease. I was reminded of that when she said that you would never see the daughter that only listens to your illness anymore .It sounds like she is projecting.

    We cannot change others. We can only change ourselves. I am working so hard on acceptance these days, radical acceptance . I have learned with my daughter that anything I say that points towards me wanting her to change is pushed back on . My inner workings of detachment etc don't need to be disclosed to her . I tell her I love her and that's it . It is up to her to want to change, to get help, to do the work - or not. I have to be ok with either , because I have to make it whether others do or dont.

    I used to wait for the break through, the right words from her that signaled hope and change. But that is what I needed to feel ok and eleviate my fears. When I truly let go and trust my Higher Power , I can move myself out of anxiety without anyone needing to change .
     
  3. BusynMember

    BusynMember Active Member

    in my opinion you did the right thing. Your 40 year old daughter is a middle aged woman now. Mine is 33 and same. Your daughter is doing what mine does when she wants something. She gets nice after shutting me out and keeping my grandson away from me. I have learned that she only reaches out when she wants a favor, usually meaning money. If I act in any way hesitant, then she blasts me and rejects me again. It hurts but I have accepted that this is who she is right now and I no longer chase after her. At all. And I feel better when she is not trying to get something from me. For us it is never about Kay wanting her parent's company. It is only about if we will give her our money or we can disappear.

    I do not know if this is your dynamic or not. Your daughter went from being sentimental about you to saying you complain too much and she will never again be the matyr who listens to you complain.

    These are only my observations. You know your daughter and I only know mine. Mine has stabbed me in the heart once too many times for me to trust her. If she reached out to me I would instantly think she would be making nice to her father and I to work up to asking for something.

    I do not know your daughter's motive. What do you think she wants?

    God bless you.
     
  4. JayPee

    JayPee Sending good vibes...

    I guess we can’t really know this for sure but if your daughter is addicted to alcohol and pills could she be speaking to you under the influence?

    I spent many years living with an alcoholic scratching my head trying to rationalize statements that made no sense. I did this over and over again most of the time it was when I was in denial about his drinking and sometimes when he told me he wasn’t and I believed him (still denial).

    We get lost in what’s real and what’s not. We try to understand and make logic of their speech and thought process when in fact they probably couldn’t explain what they meant either.

    As someone mentioned we don’t have the full picture here but something that resonates with me from reading your post in my experience is that addicts create a crisis (big or small) to divert the attention away from themselves so you won’t question their behavior/alcohol/drug use.

    Her last comment to you seems like that diversion.

    Keep posting and when your ready share more. It will bring you healing.
     
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  5. Blindsided

    Blindsided Face the Sun

    Thank you for the reply. I hadn't thought of her projecting about my illness. I do live with immune related chronic illness and pain. The thing is, I am lead author of five books on coping with chronic illness and pain, my co-author is a PhD psychotherapist. I am positive on overcoming. I never thought about that being her projecting. I wish I had a therapist that understands borderline. Despite physical challenges, I ave never been a depressed person. I do now.

    You are right, I too need to quit waiting for the breakthrough. What will be, only I can change my journey. I am saving your phrase as an affirmation. "I will move myself out of anxiety without anyone needing to change." I pray everyday to have the faith to let go and let God. Thank you again.
     
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  6. Blindsided

    Blindsided Face the Sun

    Thank you for the blessing and may God bless you.

    I have kept up with your posts about Kay. You are right. I quit giving money in 2016, had to, she would drain us of every penny and not think a thing about it. May has been with many men and used her good looks. I think she behaves the way she does for many reasons all rooted in self-esteem. She has jumped from abusive men since reaching adulthood, the last for 4-5 years. They all paid for her financially. I begged her to at least get an education, the last one was willing to pay for it. He even put her up in her own place for two years. He gave her a Lexus with the promise to sign it over when paid off (business write off for him, they have all been wealthy). She couldn't pay for upkeep, insur, etc. So, I did, thinking she needed transportation for when she went to work. She spent all the money on gambling, etc. etc. Credit card debt, AGAIN! I am sure this, as always, was her playing on my emotions. She is very manipulative.

    May was a quiet, high achiever, and when a teen, she had a great work ethic. What she wants now as a middle aged, very mean, alcoholic is someone to take care of her. Thing is, for the past 3-4 years her relationships last a nano-second.

    I posted once before about her deceased dad's brother's wife, her opinion, etc. etc. May said later in our exchange that her aunt S will be the one to notify me about anything I need to know. Aunt S, hasn't a clue. She is about 10 years too late. Aunt S refuses to acknowledge personality disorder. May is self medicating with alcohol for her personality disorder. May is also bolemic and her labwork shows malnutrition. Aunt S said if I didn't intervene, my daughter was going to die and it would be my fault. My son (his aunt too) contacted her and told her to lay off, that she hasn't a clue the way May has treated me, the extent of her problems, or the numerous times the family and some of her friends have intervened. The fact is May has to want it, and she doesn't. We are all worn out with trying again and again, major personal sacrifices to help May help herself (no family in Nevada and now her friends there moved back to their hometowns.) She will eventually treat aunt S the same way, that is if aunt S is willing to make the sacrifices all the rest of us have made. I think aunt S cares, but she is not equipped to help May. I know May needs serious mental health help. There are therapists not equipped to care for Borderline (BPD).

    The rest of the texts escalated and I stopped responding when she told me if she has cancer (she named all the tests she was getting and none of them are for cancer, they are all for liver function/damage) she does not want me around her, she forbids me to cry, because I don't deserve to. Knowing her death is near if she doesn't get help for her personality disorder (not formally diagnosed, but my sibling is a mental health nurse practitioner) and alcoholism (detoxed once with my siblings help to get her there), makes it so hard. I stress over and over again that we are all here to support her, but only if she makes healthy choices. She refuses to take responsibility for her choices. She is a victim. I get so made because there are so many who can't change their health but chose to live a positive life, seeing adversity as opportunity, and May can get better, but won't.

    Sorry to unload with a book.
     
  7. BusynMember

    BusynMember Active Member

    Oh, I felt your post in my heart and soul. There are many similarities. I suspect shamefully, but can not prove, that Lee has approved of Kay prostituting for money. She is also a beauty. I am sure they also sell pot, maybe more. If not, they would already be on the streets because Lee's salary from delivering pizza does not come to enough to pay $795 (I think) for their apartment which is in a very bad neighborhood in a very dangerous city. Think St. Louis. Think Detroit. These are not where they live but the crime is scary. Even scarier, Lee and Kay are not afraid! Me, living in.upper middle class suburbia in the next state over feels guilty, like we should live there too. Make sense?

    I would love for Lee's parents or my daughter to take Jaden. Both are willing. But CPS will not remove a child just because the neighborhood is dangerous, and nobody has been able to prove that Lee and Kay have committed crimes and Jaden is well fed and healthy, if hyperactive and unvaccinated and homeschooled. None of that will get CPS to remove Jaden. Nor will pot use since they both have medical marijuana cards.

    My biggest fear is that the two of them will become homeless and grab Jaden and run off far away, to maybe California, and live in a car and not tell us. We lived in California for many years...there is an appalling homeless community in many cities and some.live in cars. California is not near us now.

    Meanwhile we are going to Al Anon and therapy and were doing well until Kay's friend called us to berate us. We are recovering from that guilt trip.

    My son is ready to take over our business so we plan to move to a serene place without telling Kay where we will be. We also plan to travel in our camper with our precious dogs. We will do better, but Kay will never be completely wiped from our minds. My dream is that one day she changes her life. I give it a 1 percent chance.

    I am almost certain that Kay has borderline personality disorder but she doesn't agree and won't get help. Pot is her cure for everything. That is all she will use.

    Not all of our difficult children improve. i hope ALL of yours become functional, even if Kay won't try. My prayers are out to all of you. Be well. Don't let them kill you.

    Much love.
     
  8. Blindsided

    Blindsided Face the Sun

    Gosh, thank you JayPee. I gave more information in my response to BusynMember. It's a bit of a book. The text exchange continued. I tried really hard to remember to address feelings and reinforce boundaries. As you say, that only escalated her delusions. I figured it would, and after therapy for myself, I know before I say/text something, I must be prepared for a response that doesn't look like anything I was hoping for.

    You are spot on, May thrives on despair and chaos. If someone passes away that she really doesn't know, you would think it was her best friend. She has described how she wants me to orchestrate her funeral. I put a stop to that conversation by setting boundaries. I have all the tools for striving to live affirmatively, but they have no value with this. How can anyone be logical with someone who is delusional?

    As for being impaired, I don't think she draws a sober breath. My husband and sibling intervened on two separate occassions. But, May tried to physically hurt me while I was on the phone with the Mental Health Help line. They heard it and dispatched the police. She is still convinced I called them. May was able to manipulate her way out of the whole situation. That was the first letdown, ~6 years ago. I got into therapy again and my therapist told me it would not be safe to be in ANY interventions. Now, he tells me I am not safe, yet the emergency mental health person was maneuvered by the mentally ill person???? About 3 years ago my husband and I emergency drove from AZ to NV because May threatened suicide, couldn't stay awake on phone, wouldn't tell me where she was, but I tracked her down via a friend. She had to leave the place the last boyfriend was paying for because of mold and she was in fly-by-night motel. Friend couldn't get her to answer. I called police back (they will not trace someone by their cell phone) and gave them location. They did well check and she answered the door. By then we were half way there. We tried to get her come back with us, said she would but needed $$$ to get tires (a 5 hour drive). We said when you get there. CAlls when we get home to say she is staying with a new boyfriend and needs to money to help him with rent. She raged and ranted and my husband gave in. Three years ago my step-daughter-A (blended family for 38 years) insisted May go back to MO. She thought she could help, I warned her, but I don't think anyone can understand until they experience it. "A" said she had vodka in her coffee in the mornings, wanted to bring men back to her tiny apartment around my grandson, and brought her 2 little dogs that have never been trained, even though A was not allowed to have animals. "A" eventually had to call the police to get May removed. May had gotten her first job in 15 years (part of the requirement by A), but she was fired after 2 months for attendance issues. She temporarily lived with a friend and her friend's dad had May removed, then some people I don't know. May drove back to Nevada (on 4 bald tires I paid to have replaced not once, but twice, dumb me) so she could get Medicaid. Before that her wealthy friends flew her and dogs across country. They told me they never saw anyone drink so much. They even tried to get her into treatment and were going to pay, otherwise she had to leave. I know her friend who called me. May's side of the story was completely different and it did not shed a good light on these giving people who opened their home to her.

    We have been going through this for ~15 yrs, but there was no support back then and I was clueless. We do have bi-polar in the family and that is challenging but manageable and my peeps are managing well. This personality disorder thing is a totally different beast. May needs serious mental health. I have repeated this over and over to everyone, including family members that were in denial. Now everyone is on the same page except aunt S, who recently entered the picture.

    I am so sorry for what you have been through. I am so glad you are able to help others by sharing your story. Thank you so much for the insight. I am filled with gratitude for that.

    Blessings
     
  9. Blindsided

    Blindsided Face the Sun

    [These are not where they live but the crime is scary. Even scarier, Lee and Kay are not afraid! Me, living in.upper middle class suburbia in the next state over feels guilty, like we should live there too. Make sense?]

    It makes total sense. My husband and I decided to downsize in our home state and get a second home in our retirement. We now have as much family (on both sides) in AZ as we do in MO. And, it is better for my health. I sometimes think we should have stayed in the house we lived in for 25 years. That maybe if I was closer to May things would be different. (I guess in a way I actually did that. When we decided AZ, May was living there and that did affect our decision.) But, in reality that is ridiculous thinking. May moved away in her early 20s and never had any intentions of living in MO again.

    [My biggest fear is that the two of them will become homeless and grab Jaden and run off far away, to maybe California, and live in a car and not tell us. ]

    May was not able to conceive. I was with her at the gyn who told her if she would gain some weight that would probably change. In the end, it has been a blessing. I cannot imagine the pain of knowing my grandchild was in jeopardy and there was nothing I could do. I am sorry. The only thing I can say is that I am learning to fight off thoughts of "what if". My internal dialogue is changing. When I think "what if", I ask myself, "Don't you have enough to deal with in the here and now?" It really is wasted energy, but I understand, totally.

    [Meanwhile we are going to Al Anon and therapy and were doing well until Kay's friend called us to berate us. We are recovering from that guilt trip.]

    Like aunt S, they don't know $#%! The friend, like aunt S are only getting one side of the story, the delusional one. As for the MMJ, I don't knock it. I have seen it work in some. That said, it can also exacerbate delusions. Gratefully, that has not been an issue with May, it is prescription adderall, which she abuses (I]

    This is great news. Yes, we do share unknown things. We have been camping our entire lives. Something that drew us to each other. We started in a tent. We just returned from our annual respite. I call it marriage therapy in God's country. Our entire married life we have taken an annual camping trip to the CO Rockies. Started out as a long weekend and now we are there for 5 weeks. Thing now is we are in our 7th decade of life and discussions have started regarding how much longer we can do it. I said 3 years ago, until. We are still on until by the grace of God.

    Therapy helps me too.

    Many blessings.

    [We also plan to travel in our camper with our precious dogs. have seen it) and alcohol. I believe both have completely altered May's brain circuits because of the long term abuse.
     
  10. Blindsided

    Blindsided Face the Sun

    P.S. I too wonder how May gets money. But, I also know my imagination is probably way worse than the reality and even if it is real, it doesn't affect them the same way. They simply see it as a means to continue a life they like and are familiar. They don't have it together enough to realize our worry is STDs, resulting cancer, rough crowd, etc.
     
  11. newstart

    newstart Active Member

    I am so sad after reading your post because I have walked in your shoes. I am praying for your broken heart because of how deeply this hurts. Do not let her give you hope just to knock you back to the ground. I am so sorry.
     
  12. Blindsided

    Blindsided Face the Sun

    Thank you, newstart. I cringe when I see May's face (tried taking the profile picture off, but the empty avatar was worse). I havent seen her, or pictures of her, since 2016.

    I understand that Borderline (BPD) type behaviors can go from intense love to intense hate. That is what has happened here. My son and his wife are done with her because they have heard me cry like a wild animal. I hate that anyone has to know that intense pain. I am sorry you know it.

    I cant seem to completely detach though that's what my other children wish I would do.
     
  13. WiseChoices

    WiseChoices Active Member

    I can highly recommend the book "Stop walking in eggshells" for better understanding of and learning to deal with Borderline (BPD). Also Al-Anon meetings. May clearly has a substance abuse disorder which is often one of the symptoms of Borderline (BPD).
     
  14. Blindsided

    Blindsided Face the Sun

    Thank you so much. I have read that book twice. It is very insightful. I have others too. I try to address feelings and set boundaries, but even though I think I am prepared for the response, May finds a new way to hurt me. This is how the texts proceeded after my initial post.

    Me
    you feel that way. But, I cant change it. I love you.

    May
    Reba McEntire - I'll Be
    I have always loved you.

    If my tests come back with cancer I don't want you there. Do you. That's all you have ever done.

    Me

    Stop the attacks on me, all they do is put me in defense mode. That is not kind and helps nothing.

    I feel you are lashing out because you are scared. I am scared for you. But, you dont get back with me. I am still waiting to hear what doctor said about your liver tests. What is this test?

    May
    You really NEVER cease to amaze me with your selfish ways. Really? Liver test or colonoscopy, endoscopy, fibroscan, lactose malabsorption test, [etc. These are liver function/damage tests] Plus pages of blood work I have to get done. You're so smart but thank GOD Aunt S has been there for me therefore if something very bad about comes up you will be informed and that's all I want is for you to be informed.
    Do NOT cry for me because you DO NOT deserve to cry. I love you. You're my mom. You should have been there for me and you never have been.
    Sad.

    My son and his wife say to block her. I tried that a few years ago and all I did was wonder if she tried to reach out for help. My sibling is a mental health NP who understands Borderline (BPD). She has located a great program which we can all support, but May has made it clear she is not up for any mental health treatment because her problems are all physical. She will not acknowledge her body is sitting down from bohemia and alcoholism. She abuses adderall, which I think exacerbates her delusions.
     
  15. WiseChoices

    WiseChoices Active Member

    I see what's happening there . I say this with respect for you and love, and I am NOT saying that you are to blame for her responses but you are not really validating feelings .

    Rather than "you feel that way" try getting behind her eyes a little . "This must be so difficult for you". "I understand how you feel" ." Oh!" - these all leave her feelings intact.

    I see a lot of hurt and resentment on your part and that is understandable, but those feelings are for you to work through.

    When she said "If my test come back with cancer, I don't want you there" , validating might be something like "I understand why you might feel this way".

    When she says "you have not been there for me" , empathy might say "I am so sorry you feel that way".

    Detachment with love is key! She is mentally ill, not bad. Her mental health issues have led her to make some bad choices, and her solution (alcohol, Adderall) is adding to her problems. Pushing against her will never ever lead to a desire to change. The desire may never come either way, but there is a small chance she may seek treatment one day if you detach with love. Her feelings, thoughts, actions and their consequences belong to her . So do her lies and her manipulations. Your property are only your feelings, your thoughts, and your actions. You can set boundaries when you need to, and be detached but loving .Someone said to treat an adult child like it was someone else's adult child . Would I say this to my girlfriend's adult child? And if the answer is no, don't say it .I think that illustrates detachment pretty well .
     
  16. tamarann

    tamarann New Member

    Sorry
    So sorry you find yourself here. Hugs to you and know that taking care of yourself is top priority. ❤️
     
  17. Blindsided

    Blindsided Face the Sun

    Thank you so much. And the same to you.:flowers:
     
  18. Blindsided

    Blindsided Face the Sun

    That is such good advice. I never know how to respond. I read and read and read and I just cant remember. Everything you say makes sense and I have read it, but the way you explain it us very helpful. "Treat May like she is someone else's adult child" that I can remember and apply.:angel:
     
  19. Blindsided

    Blindsided Face the Sun

    Wise choices, I feel better prepared and I do want to detach with love.

    I have not responded to those last texts. It pains me that May could see it as abandonment. May dominates my thoughts everyday, which is not fair to the rest of the family.

    I do better when I don't know the particulars, but I think I want to know. A therapist I was seeing after the first failed intervention, told me not to reply if I cant emotionally detach because he was concerned for me and he was not treating May.

    I came close to admitting myself last year when we had our last phone conversation. I learned I am not strong enough or prepared to do that again.

    I was able to keep tabs on May, but now she has run off all her friends many who have tried to help her too. Now she really is alone in a state far away from all of us.

    Her deceased dad's sister in law, aunt S, contacted me via FB with her worry because her son met up with May where she is. He reported May has bloating and other signs of liver failure. I knew this would probably be the case because May had sent pictures of bruised legs and gave me access to her lab account. At the time I tried to explain her liver was showing signs of failure from the alcohol and malnourishment. (I am a retired RN). At the time I asked May if she had food (I would have sent money even though we said no more), and she replied if I really cared, I would know she is on food stamps. I have suggested if she was too sick to work, she needed to consider applying for disability. That did not go over well.

    I tried to give aunt S the Readers Digest version and told her my therapist said it is not safe for me to be part of anymore interventions. There is so much more. Where May is she has Medicaid, but in MO, where her cousin and aunt S are and we are too right now, she doesn't qualify. So, aunt S, told me I needed to drive to Nevada, get May's 2 little aging poms and become responsible for them. I declined (we have been doing this for 15 years, we are elderly, and we would like to make the most of what time we have left. We also have a place in AZ, (May was living there at the time, which influenced our decision). That many miles back and forth across the US is not possible, nor is caring for 2 aging dogs that have never been trained. Aunt S told me if I was unwilling to go along with her plan, then I needed to be prepared to bury May after a long and grueling "expensive" death. (Thise words sou dedicated like they cane right out of May's mouth). My son told his aunt S to leave me out of it because all she knows is what May has told her. He told her I am a trigger for May and we have all done all the things aunt S suggests. And, that May has to want the help. Aunt S has not reached out to my son, and she has doesnt correspond with me anymore, so I am clueless. My son has detached other than to respond to May with one or two words.

    That last text was the 22nd. I wonder if I should respond now or let it go until the next event. I dont want to open a can of worms, but I dont want May to think I dont love her. This is so hard.
     
  20. WiseChoices

    WiseChoices Active Member

    May knows you love her. The problem is not that she feels unloved . Her game with you is to make you feel guilty (e.g. "if you cared you would know I am on food stamps").

    I would not respond to anything at this point. Try to catch a little break for yourself. Tend to yourself physically, emotionally, and spiritually. So some things that bring you joy and distract yourself . Start training your mind to think of things other than what is going on with May. Everytime you think of her say to yourself "I send you love, May, and I let go". This is for your own sanity and well- being .

    The Aunt is controlling and manipulative. Don't let her fill you with guilt .your daughter's liver condition is the consequence of May's choices, not yours .

    All you can do is take really good care of yourself and pray. See your daughter safe in God's big loving hands . We have to make it whether the loved one does or not .

    Do you attend Al-anon? They have provided me with invaluable support and love .