Difficult Child in hospital

in a daze

Well-Known Member
He went in yesterday...this was really a planned admission to 1. detox him off this quasi legal supplement called Kratom, which has opiod properties 2. stop the brintellex for a week since he cannot tolerate doing it outpatient and switch him to Ensam, which is an mao inhibitor patch.

He's been going to work for the most part since July when he was suspended x 2. However, all he does is take this stuff and go on the computer. He stopped working out, went to only the minimum meetings, etc.No antidepressant has ever been able to touch his low motivation and drive. So he's going on the mao inhibitor, which is used with treatment resistant people.

He was up to some funny business Sunday. He came down to go to his friend's baby's christening. We dropped him off with the understanding that he would get a ride or take a cab to the train, since we weren't going to be around. Instead he stayed overnight at a friend's and didn't call us, giving us the excuse that his phone was dead. He was supposed to get advance notice to spend the night away from his sober house. Instead, he's a no call, no show. So I get a call from the house manager yesterday. We finally track him down at the hospital, where he was waiting for a bed in detox. He told me he had stopped the brintellex antidepressant on his own 3 days ago hoping to speed up the process, and that made him kind of loopy and manic.

Sounds real fishy to me. But I have no proof.

I told him, you know they would have dropped you had you gone to the house before going to the hospital. Your story just doesn't add up. I said, can't you see how suspicious this is? Well, he said, I wasn't thinking straight, I figured I was going into the hospital the next day, why even come home.

He insists he wasn't drinking. Not convinced.


Well-Known Member
If I had a dollar every time my daughter swore her phone died and she was not drinking/pot smoking I would be rich. Never mind that everyone else she was with had a phone. Hope he follows through on the sober house.


Well-Known Member
I hear you!
That's the sad part--our kids could be telling the truth, but it doesn't add up, and they've lied so many times, wouldn't this be a lie, too?
So sad. So self-defeating.


Crazy Cat Lady
Kratom is an herbal extract that binds to the opiate receptors in the nervous system.

It is NOT a "supplement". It is a "drug" used to get high and is highly addictive.

He will go through a heroin-type withdrawal from the kratom. In fact, heroin and other opiate addicts use kratom to ease withdrawal from their drug of choice, and many wind up addicted to kratom instead.

The fact that he is using kratom would raise a few red flags about his contacts in the drug world, as those who have access to synthesized kratom extracts very often also have access to syntesized "research chemicals" which are drugs developed to provide powerful highs while not being detected by currently available tests.

The developers of these drugs stay ahead of the laws by tweaking a molecule here and and a molecule there.

These RC's are readily availble on what is referred to as the "dark net", a part of the internet not easily accessible to the average user. The now defunct Silk Road is an example of a dark net business that some of you might have heard of.

I would be very concerned that your Difficult Child has moved well beyond typical street drug use. I hope the detox works and that he is able to begin to get his life together.

I've been extensively researching modern drug culture and it is a sad place indeed, as well as being very frightening.

in a daze

Well-Known Member
Aw, thanks Pasa and RE!

Yes, if their lips are moving, they are lying.

He will go through a heroin-type withdrawalfrom the kratom. In fact, heroin and other opiate addictsuse kratom to ease withdrawal from their drug of choice, and many wind up addicted to kratom instead.

Read more: http://www.conductdisorders.com/community/threads/difficult-child-in-hospital.61127/#ixzz3nHV7AUIb

Yes, they are doing the standard opiate withdrawal protocol on him (decreasing doses of oxycdone over 5 days.)

Yes, he was getting it online or at a "smoke shop".

He has been one to kind of do what he can do to stay off the radar, and this is a perfect example. Although the episode this past Sunday was pretty blatant and not characteristic of his actions for the last two years.

One positive thing is that he's been completely honest with the doctor, and his caseworker, about his use of this stuff.

Husband and myself agree he needs a budget and plan on having him pay more of his expenses. Then he won't have as much money to spend on it. It is expensive.

Tanya M

Living with an attitude of gratitude
Staff member
Never a dull moment with a Difficult Child.

I hope the detox goes well and the new drug regiment will help.


in a daze

Well-Known Member
Never a dull moment with a Difficult Child.

That's for sure! Would prefer a boring, stress free life...lol.

Spoke to his caseworker. She said Difficult Child has been honest about his struggle to stay off the stuff and was considering going in the hospital. Psychiatrist talked him into it. This is a good sign, as addiction thrives on secrecy and evasiveness.

in a daze

Well-Known Member
Saw him tonight. Being discharged Monday. He's pretty depressed. Can't start new MAO inhibitor AD till Thursday. Sleeps most of the day. Calling the psychiatrist (who is not his regular doctor, just managing him while he's hospitalized) and leaving a strongly worded voice mail.

Of course intensive outpatient is being set up, but that's only 3 hours.

They are discharging him, and his antidepressant hasn't even been started. He has excellent insurance. Well, maybe not so much. How could they do this?


Well-Known Member
I've been following along. I'm so sorry to hear that they are discharging him. Is there no long-term rehab he can go to? It seems insane to detox someone and then just put them out, even with outpatient follow-up, especially with such serious drugs...not that they aren't all serious.


in a daze

Well-Known Member
Sorry....He lives in a sober residence and SW mentioned names of a few that were more structured but he wants to stay where he's at because it is conveniently right across the street from the hospital, and he'll be attending IOP there, and it's convenient to work. Anyway, the one guy who is his roommate is the house manager and a medical professional and he'll keep an eye on him.

Now they are discharging him on Ativan, 4 days worth, till he gets on the new antidepressant. It's a benzodiazepine and it's not good for an addict to have. Left another voicemail with the attending psychiatrist. Spoke to two nurses and left voicemail for SW.

Not happy with this discharge.:(


Crazy Cat Lady
Well, 4 days worth of Ativan likely isn't enough to get him addicted to it, though it is enough to give him a helluva high if he takes it all at once. It would've made more sense to discharge him on a less abuse prone medication than Ativan for anxiety such as Buspar.

I use Ativan daily and have for years, and in that time, my dosage has not increased, but I am not abuse prone. At the same time, I am definitely dependent on the drug and suffer rebound anxiety if I miss a dose, which is a polite way of saying I suffer the beginnings of withdrawals.

4 days of Ativan is also likely to make him want more benzos, and the benzo he is likely to want is Xanax, which is the most popular of the benzos on the street because it hits hard and fast. It is also the most addictive because it hits hard and fast and has a very short half life, which means it lasts a few hours and leaves the user craving more.

Bad, bad, idea.

in a daze

Well-Known Member
So no Ativan after all. His Walgreens records get sent to my email. The doctor ordered vistaril instead. So he listened to me.

So now he's talking about going back to work tomorrow. When I talked to him at 4 pm, he was having a panic attack. A lot of mood swings, it looks like. Hasn't said a word about the Ativan, and I'm not going to bring it up.


Crazy Cat Lady
Well, vistaril, an old line antihistamine, isn't good for much, in my opinion, but better that than benzos in your Difficult Child's case.

Hopefully, he'll manage to hang in for hte few days until he sees a doctor aain.