Janet, I'm pretty sure pulling down pants and using a switch doesn't count as a simple spanking. I really don't care if parents swat a two year old on a padded butt for almost running into traffic (if the child is too young to understand). Using weapons and pulling down pants will get you an abuse call if you are caught. One day at a grocery store my husband saw a woman slap her child across the face. He is ten years military and no softie, but he walked up to her and told her to stop it, that it was abuse and that she's lucky he wasn't calling CPS or the cops on her. You don't use a tool to slap bare skin or ever touch a child that way around the face/head.
I hope one day we outgrow the practice of spanking, period. Spanking too easily leads to beating, which is what Adrian Peterson did. Do I think it a kid is spanked on his clothed butt he will become a monster. Nope. Do I think it is a useful punishment? Nope. No evidence it is. Do I think the beating that Adrian Peterson gave his son is abuse? Yes, I would agree with the Judge and the doctor. Janet, I am sure you have never done that to your boys. You love them too much. I understand that you are not talking about what Peterson did.
I think people who have had it happen to them think it is more normal than those who did not. I have extremely verbally abusive parents, but they didn't hit me. Therefore, I act and think like an abused person, but I don't think and never did think of hitting my kids as a good option to reign in behavior. Heck, once kids get older many of them will slap you right back. But, Janet, your kids adore you. I know you are not an abusive parent This is not about you.
Actually Pam, I probably was abusive. I dont think we ever pulled the kids pants down to spank them but they got either the switch or even sometimes the belt as they got older. I stopped spanking the boys when they were 2 and 4 because I had delusions where I saw blood dripping down the walls and I thought it was my boys blood. I didnt know I was bipolar at that point and I was afraid to tell anyone what I was supposedly thinking but I knew it wasnt normal and I was afraid I might hurt them. I turned the physical punishment over to Tony. Instead I screamed. I think the things I said were far worse than the times Tony whipped them.
I didnt have easy kids. Well Billy listened pretty well and he was only spanked maybe twice in his life and it was for something normal. Cory and Jamie were simply hard. Nothing else got their attention. I couldnt do anything that made a difference. No TV? They didnt want to watch it anyway. Time out? Try wrangling two hyperactive boys at the same time into corners. Jamie grew up enough that by the time he hit jr high he didnt need spanking anymore but honestly, I would beat the hell out of Cory today if I could.
I have to admit I threatened to spank Jamie when he was in the Marines because he did something rude to me and he just bent over...lol. His friends thought it was hilarious. He told them he would never be too old for me to spank!
In my opinion, people REALLY need to see the pictures before they put out their opinion on the subject - especially when taking up for the piece of koi. I have seen it all over FB. People sticking up for him saying that is how they were raised and then they see the pictures and say, oh, yeah, that is not discipline. The little boy was 4!!! The father is a FOOTBALL player with more strength than any of us and he used a weapon! NOTHING that baby could have done warranted that beating. For goodness sake, he was whipped in his private parts!!!!!!!!!!!! Are you effing serious???? Goodness this subject gets me SO riled up and SO angry.
I understand everyone has a different way to parent, but I have never, ever believed in hitting children. I do not think it teaches them anything but to lash out physically when they are angry. Would my daughter have turned out differently if I smacked her around? No, I highly doubt it. If anything, it may have made her act out worse...
He has been accused of child abuse on another one of his many children (with his many girlfriends) too. It was found unsubstantiated, but I wonder. I mean, if he does that to this kid, he probably beat his other kid too. Agree about looking at the pictures before drawing a conclusion.
SOMEBODY, however, is not happy with Peterson. So maybe some Babyboomers, like me, were beaten on the bare butt with a shoe or belt or piece of wood...that does not make it right. People always want to think they were raised right and came from a good family, etc. etc. etc. We don't know these people who stick up for Peterson's behavior. Maybe they did the same thing and maybe they are just crazed football fanatics who think anything a football player does is ok. There are plenty of people like that.
Janet, you are a brave woman. I understand how hard it is with difficult kids. 36 was a problem from birth and, trust me, if I had known spanking in my life, I have no doubt I may have done my worst on him. You stopped it early though. Big LOLOLs on Jamie!!!! I can see 36 doing the same thing...lolol.
PatriotsGirl, if I had done what Peterson did to 36, I have no doubt he'd be in prison. As it is, he's not a great guy, but at least, like me, it isn't in his makeup to think "spank" and he has never hit my grandson. In fact, he thinks ex is abusive for putting tobasco sauce on his son's tongue when he gets mouthy. Or a bar of soap. Those things are alien to him and I don't think doing those things to him would have made him turn out better. He was born different...why push it and make it even worse? Whatever "it" is.
Oops. Now I can't edit and I typed too fast...lol.
I meant to say, somebody isn't happy with Peterson. The team must be getting flak somewhere because he has again been deactivated and you know they don't want to do that. They may not win another game without him. But there must have been pressure to have him removed again...
I'm glad. Maybe he'll think about it next time he holds a switch.
I am from the South and I was raised getting a spanking when I did something wrong. I didn't get beaten. Yes a switch was used on occasion. I rarely got more than 2 or 3 swats with it and it never ever drew blood or left horrendous welps. I am sure it left a slight mark but nothing horrid.
I guess I abused my children as well because they got spankings when they were young. A swat on occasion when they weren't listening and put themselves in danger. Once or twice they got spankings for running their mouths waaaaaaaayyyyyyy to much! I never spanked their bare butts. I personally dont feel that in those cases I was abusive but by some definitions I am sure I was.
I did feel abusive the two times I slapped my oldest daughter in the face and the 1 time I slapped her leg. I did it way too hard and left an imprint. In both instances difficult child was behaving extremely badly and in one case was physically hitting me. I was attempting to snap her out of it before she hurt herself and us. It worked. She will never forgive me for it and I understand! I will never forgive myself because it isn't something I want my child to remember about me.
I have seen the pictures and what Peterson did was wrong. That child was beaten. Even if he was attempting to discipline in a manner he was used to he went well above and beyond the norm. No 4 year old child does things that require corporal punishment. If it gets to that point the parent needs to be seeking some parenting help and some mental health help for their child. They probably have a child with some serious mental health issues.
As for Rice the video says it all. He abused the woman and she continues to stand behind him. I can't support that.
In the case of Peterson and Rice's careers I believe the NFL has a morality clause for their players. Even without abuse being listed in it specifically I would imagine it is broad enough to extend to issues where their actions effect the league. Do I think he should lose his career? No, I think he should receive therapy and be monitored just like any of us would if found guilty. Being abusive is a problem that can be fixed with enough therapy and the will to change.
I think the deep south (or certain parts of it, as I don't believe it is everywhere) need to play catch up with the rest of the developed world. Nowhere else is it legal to take a switch to your child. Only there. And I'm talking about other first world countries as well as other parts of the US.
Having said that, I agree that therapy should be offered to the abusers. If they want to quit, they will. Just like drug abusers, those who think there is nothing wrong with a bruising to a defiant child's body will continue on, therapy or not. If it continues, Peterson's career will probably be over. The sponsors have spoken and were going to pull out of sponsoring the Vikings if Peterson played. If for no other reason than he wants to play, I hope he has learned and that other players will be abstaining from this sort of punishment against children and against domestic abuse in general. These guys signed up to be role models and kids do look up to them.
Like I've said before, if you want less scrutiny give up the millions and be an accountant or a janitor or a clerical worker. Don't put yourself "out there" where your every move is watched. But I am glad the issue of abuse of all kinds is being addressed. Many of us were abused. If not us, and in my case, my girls were both sexually abused.
It's time to punish abusers of all stripes in my opinion. It is new that we discuss it at all and I feel it is a good, positive change.
dstc, I meant no disrespect to you. I am sure you did not traumatize your children, as I am sure Janet did not. It's just that that sort of discipline, with a switch, can easily turn to a serious injury if one is inclined toward violence and overkill as in the case of Adrian Peterson, unlike dstc and Janet, who are not angry abusers trying to weld power over children they rarely see. Both of you have high engagement with your children (adult) and always did and I do know, and will say again, that Janet's boys adore her...her kindness is the reason. Adrian Peterson was probably not quite so kind.
I just hope all the laws are changed one day to ban using weapons while spanking a chld and to keep the pants pulled up. It's in my opinion a step in the right direction. I'm sure some farmers in my neck of the woods in Wisconsin still use switches on their children. I refuse to villify the majority of the southern part of our country. Really, so much about the south is wonderful and caring and friendly and warm. Rural areas, all over, are apt to lag a bit behind in social issues.
My trip to the southern part of the US, was filled with warm people who really seemed to care about our family. Bad people live everywhere. And clueless people do too.
MWM, I realize that you qualified your statement but it still reeks of stereotypes. I don't think child abuse is endemic in the deep south nor do I think child abuse happens here more often than any other part of the country.
I also don't think that the deep south is some third world country that needs to "catch up" with the rest of the developed world. That really is offensive although I don't think you meant to be. Please be mindful that there are members from all over the country on the board and I don't think it is constructive to put down where other members live.
Kathy, read the posts above it. I was trying to say I did not believe these behaviors are southern...that they are everywhere. I do think it would be best to ban this type of corporal punishment throughout our country, but do not believe the south has a monopoly on child abuse. If it came across that way, I apologize to anyone living in the south. I must have, once again, put my foot in my mouth, when I was trying to be a bit sarcastic. There is severe child abuse way up north, right here in Wisconsin. We have some heinous cases pending right now near where I live...I most certainly do not believe it is a regional problem. It is an ugly problem all over the US, which has been swept under the rug.
Two posters from the south intimidated this was common in the south. I do not think it is uncommon anywhere. Nor am I sure it is legal in any state to do what Peterson did.
Yes a 4 year old can do something that requires corporal punishment. Mine did often. I dont mean beating them bloody but corporal punishment means spanking. Exactly what would anyone do when their two year old snuck out of the house while you were going to the bathroom and wandered into traffic almost getting hit? How about the day he road his bike into oncoming traffic on a road with a 55 mph speed limit and a woman almost hit him? He was 6 at that time. What would you do when your kid was sneaking out of a self contained classroom, walking home, breaking into neighbors homes and stealing things? The neighbors were so over it that they were threatening to shoot him the next time they caught him in their homes.
Both parents worked in this situation and grounding him didnt work. He certainly wasnt going to ride the bus home and go to his room with no tv. If I just grounded him from everything when I got home, our trailer was so small he could see the living room and the TV from his bedroom. I wasnt allowed to do many of the things I wanted to do. He would sneak out of the house through his bedroom window at night. I wanted to put a 6x10 dog cage inside his bedroom and lock him in at night. Not allowed. I wanted to force him to run laps but in order to do that and not run away I would have to tether him...not allowed. You cant take away food. He didnt care what we ate, he likes everything! Liver? Loves it.
In the end, Cory spent most of his teen years in group homes but he behaved the same way there and they kept sending him home.
He will tell you today he never got a whipping he didnt deserve.
Oh and the other day I heard statistics on spanking in this country. 83% of blacks have used it, 81% of whites, 75% of hispanics and 72% of Asians. The highest incidents of corporal punishment happen in the southeast and midwest.
Janet, I think if a child misbehaves that much, and is so young, it is probably going to take some good help rather than a spanking. That's my opinion and it is what I did. My son was no peach, trust me on that. He was more subtle, but far from any better. Nobody threatened to shoot him (that didn't happen in our area), however many banned him from playing with their children and teachers just hated him.
My son spent most of high school trying not to go to school at all, even though he has a very high IQ. High school was a really scary time for me and 36!!! Yikers!!! He only lasted at home a few years after high school. I get where you are coming from and maybe if I had had corporal punishment used on me, it would have been my feelings to use it as well. God knows, many parents would have! I think it helped him though that I didn't, especially in regards to parenting his own child. Just like me, his go-to reaction for discipline is not to hit him. Considering how angry 36 can get with anyone but his son, that is in my opinion a miracle.
As for our country and corporal punishment...the truth is, we are the only developed country that allows it to the extent that we do and I don't think that says much for us, really. At any rate, Adrian Peterson did not spank his child. He beat him because his son did something annoying to his brother. Peterson also had another abuse charge on another child of his...it was deemed unfounded, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen...just that it couldn't be proven. This child he is currently charged with abuse on has been seen by a doctor who did say it is abuse. I am glad the NFL is taking action. I know they are only taking action because of the sponsors threatening to pull out...lol...but, hey, good for the sponsors (at least in my eyes).
Janet, Sig is right though. There are plenty of abusers who are not in the limelight and who don't get caught. It is a big problem. My way of thinking is, if it's not ok to assault a woman (and, at one time, it was common), it is not ok to hit a much smaller little human being either. But it is ok to agree to disagree. I really don't consider normal spanking abuse. I just wouldn't do it myself, that's all. It is not something I have ever been comfortable doing myself. I know other people spank and it really doesn't bother me at all unless it moves from spanking to beating. There's a huge difference.
Janet, I do not consider you a child abuser. We had different rather unpleasant upbringings in different states and maybe were brought up with different types of not-so-great parents, but with all our mental health issues we are actually not that different and I respect you a great deal. You have overcome a lot and your boys and grandkids adore you.