Got testing results for oldest daughter. Would appreciate input if you have time : )

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Otto von Bismark, Dec 22, 2011.

  1. Hi,

    I have been away from forum for a few weeks due to surgery. Glad to be back. This is kind of a two-part post.

    A while back I posted on my son's testing results and you wise folks brought up a few questions, which were echoed by a developmental pediatrician. Here is thread:

    What I did with those results was to see devel. pediatrician. who said the testing was complete bunk. She didn't like how it was boiler-plate. The report read badly, and some of the test results were incompatible with other results, according to her. She urged me to get testing re-done ( at 2500$) through someone else. She also gave me a name of a "sexual deviant" specialist. Then she said she would NOT take my son as a patient.

    What I did with that was to contact the sex specialist. We qualified for a grant for intensive therapy -- they come to house 2x week, once for therapy for difficult child, once for family therapy. Then we get a group one time a month! It's totally affordable. We are not retesting because we can't afford it. The therapist is very good!

    I am telling you this background because the same testing psychology group tested my daughter (at a VERY reduced fee, because the guy was trying to help our family -- see link to my other thread if needed).
    We did testing for daughter before we got son's results.

    Due to my daughter's anxiety of getting test results, we just got results yesterday -- she just turned 18 and had to give me permission to get them, and she didn't want to go to appointment.

    My daugher, who is very bright, HATES these results, because, honestly, in her immaturity, she can't see big picture and was just looking for some Adderal so she could focus.
    The results showed that she has no ADD/ADHD at all, but instead has severe anxiety (sarcastic surprise!) and a decent case of depression. The doctor said her IQ results were impaired and basically not valid, because of anxiety.

    In elementary school, her IQ tested at about 140. Yesterday, her composite was 107. The doctor said she watched her get the right answer almost every time, then change it at the last second in a panic. The parts she did well on were at 127. The parts that caused her the most anxiety were at 88. The doctor recommends therapy and short dose of anti-depressant for the depression and anxiety. I think the kid is so depressed and anxious that she can't tell she is.

    Is this possible?
    Remember -- this is the captain of the Lacrosse team, and class president. She is applying to ivy league schools. I have seen attention and cognitive drop this past year. She is having a very hard time writing essays for college apps. I DO NOT WANT HER TO GO AWAY TO SCHOOL LIKE THIS.

    Problem -- my daughter doubts the validity of the testing since there is so much controversy over her brother's testing.
    Other problem -- she believes she "only" has ADD, not anxiety or depression, even though I gave her reading material that explained how anxiety/depression can cause attention problems and mask as ADD.
    She claims she has no anxiety, yet she called me FIVE TIMES while I drove home from doctor, asking for results over the phone, even though I said no. Poor kid.

    I don't even know what to do. She is unwilling to accept anxiety/depression treatment. She wants to quit applying to all colleges because she "only has a 107 IQ." She is 18. We didn't even go in for IQ testing. I don't care what her IQ is, I just want her to get help. Nothing like another crisis to piggyback our last one, in case I ever take a breath and assume things will be easy for five seconds!

  2. buddy

    buddy New Member

    uggg, I hate IQ tests. Never mind for difficult child's...... there is so much controversy for them period, and when you add a diagnosis, these tests were not standardized on people with these kinds of diagnosis so they are not valid.

    Her not being able to see those big picture things is going to be such a huge obstical. She is stuck in the black/white thinking of depression. When there is such a range of scores like that in a child who did not previously test like that, obviously a problem. The doctor should not have reported the scores. THAT is the thing she should not trust in this testing, not the anxiety/depression. When a test is not valid, then they are not supposed to record them. Simply state tehre was a wide range of scores in subtests and the test was judged to be invalid due to depression/anxiety symptoms.

    I am sorry they did that to her. So now, will she participate in any therapy from a therapist who understands BOTH ADD and depression and then she can have someone help her sort through her concerns and see what is what? That way her concerns are not dismissed and same is true for the depression. Does she know that some antidepressants are used for ADD? Maybe that kind of medication choice would be acceptable to her? I hope she can get some cognitive therapy help to help her change some of her mixed up ideas. Logically, adhd is a permanent issue, she is better off working on anxiety and depression which can be relieved and sometimes permanently helped. Does she see depression as a character flaw or something? why is she so resistive to it? I am asking because at 17 I refused (thru paralyzing worry, constant crying episodes, not wanting to get up, yet still going to college and maintaining an A average.... so used that as proof I didn't need help, duh) to admit I had depression. Now looking back I would never let myself get to that place. Any little hint of those kinds of feelings being on going and I go to doctor.

    How does she account for the symptoms you describe if she only thinks it is ADD? the constant worry, the obsessions, the giving up on things...that is not directly from ADHD which is easy for us to see, but in her chemically challenged brain right now she changes her thoughts to the hopeless side of things. Poor poor girl. My heart aches for both of you. Can she put off college for a year to get healthy? Sounds like she might be having troubles with this huge change in life... what is that called??? adjustment disorder or something like that?
    Well I wont ramble, sorry not much help, just letting you know I really feel badly for you and for her. It must be heart breaking.
  3. TeDo

    TeDo Guest

    It sounds like you have two VERY different opinions regarding your son. Do the retesting when you can. If you can get services that work for your son, the diagnosis aren't as important. Just because one professional says it's "bunk" does not mean it is. That is one professionals opinion and it is only an opinion unless THEY can PROVE the results are incorrect. Don't fret it. Take the services you can get and ask for more if needed. After all, it IS all about the services not necessarily the labels.

    I hate to say this Otto but she is 18 and there is nothing you can do except provide information and support. If she would be willing to do what Buddy said, great. Have you tried to explain that what the dev. pediatrician. said is an "opinion"? Why is she SOOOO convinced (obsessively so) that it's ADD/ADHD and why does she specifically want Aderrall? If you could get someone else to tell her the "truth" about the various diagnosis's they might be more believable because they aren't MOM. I don't know, it sounds like a tough call but it al boils down to her being a legal adult and there's not much you can do.

    {{{{(((HUGS)))}}}} to you all. It sounds so tough. Having done the anxiety/depression thing personally, she is in a very tough spot.
  4. confuzzled

    confuzzled Member

    its interesting (read suspicious) that she only thinks she has adhd and wants an rx for she having issues with drug abuse by chance?

    to answer your question...not only is it possible to not self recognize anxiety/depression symptoms in yourself, its common. unless her symptoms are drastic (panic attacks, exhaustion, etc) it CAN be hard to ferret out what symptom goes to what, and it certainly can look and feel like adhd.

    there is a story about muhammed ali's wife in which she goes to a dr because she KNOWS she has adhd and cant focus--and promptly falls asleep in the waiting room.

    the doctor figures out immediately that she doesnt have adhd, she has "caregiver syndrome" and CRS because she's exhausted and anxiety ridden.

    my point is that a grown woman, presumably with enough medical background from caring for a disabled husband, didnt recognize, or have words for, what was actually wrong--it looked and felt enough like adhd that she assumed that was a reasonable diagnosis.

    it takes an excellent diagnostician to tease out symptoms...where i see your daughters point is that there is a confidence issue in the doctor. it might make sense to humor her and see if you can do some quick testing for adhd to rule it out/in with someone she trusts. easier said than done, i know.

    i feel for her.
  5. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    This is very interesting: The doctor said she watched her get the right answer almost every time, then change it at the last second in a panic.
    That's a great observation.
    With the worsening of her condition, I, too, wonder about outside drug use. She does not know how to "use" properly because she cannot diagnosis, and everyone I know who self medicates just makes it worse. That's what doctors, dxes, and monitored pharmaceuticals are for.
    I don't know what to say about your son.
    Wish I could be of more help, but you are on the right path and are doing a good job.
  6. gcvmom

    gcvmom Here we go again!

    Her last-second answer changing on the tests sounds very much like my difficult child 1, who also has anxiety and depression and therefore is getting a generic "mood disorder not otherwise specified" label on our most recent psychiatrist superbill.

    That said, the answer to your question about whether one can have anxiety and depression and not realize it is a resounding YES. Perhaps if you explain it this way: it's like being a frog that's put into a pot of water, and the heat is very gradually increased. The frog acclimates to the temperature change up to a point before it succumbs to the heat. On the other hand, if you suddenly immerse a frog into a boiling pot of water, it's going to immediately try to get out of that pot. The difference between the two is that the former situation builds so gradually you don't realize you're in trouble until things are REALLY bad.

    I, too, have anxiety that has morphed over time into depression when left untreated. Once I started medications, it was like a veil had been lifted and I remember telling someone that I never realized just how badly I was feeling until I started to feel good again, thanks largely to the medications ( I had therapy too, but without the two together, my recovery would not have been as quick).

    Another though for your daughter is that medications might be just a temporary support if she'd be willing to go to therapy/counseling to learn better self-awareness and coping skills. Things will only get more stressful in college, and this would be a really great way to prepare her for those demands.
  7. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I dont think its drug abuse. I do think its anxiety but she thinks she has attention problems due to being anxious and depressed. She probably doesnt know about it at all. My doctor has put me on adhd medications for attention and helping with alertness.

    I also freaked about my IQ when I found out that mine had dropped. Mine was due to a brain injury but I didnt take it well at all.
  8. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Now, now, Janet dear...
    Word from our old therapist...
    IQ does NOT change. How well you are able to test - may change.
    So there.
    Your IQ did NOT drop - just your ability to do IQ tests.


    Otto - maybe let your daughter know that, too!