Healing from Narcissistic Relationship: Very good article

Discussion in 'Family of Origin' started by Scent of Cedar *, Dec 17, 2015.

  1. Scent of Cedar *

    Scent of Cedar * Well-Known Member

    In this morning's reading, I learned that Narcissism is indeed rated on a continuum, from Healthy to Malignant. The article cited here addresses the anger we will feel as we begin healing. Which is a relief, because I am always spooked by how mad I get. I read somewhere too that when we experience our anger, we reclaim energies once used to create depression.


    Very good article. If we add to this the mantra: Pray for their peace and therein, find our own, we will be able to bring ourselves through with compassion.

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  2. New Leaf

    New Leaf Well-Known Member

    Hey Cedar thanks so much for this. I am researching narcissistic siblings and am finding out a lot there, especially since there are different levels of this, a spectrum, really...... Learning of it is shining the light on many incidences in my past. I am having an ah ha moment......narcissister
    Mahalo Nui
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  3. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Cedar, have a sibling and one parent with narcissistic traits as well. Thanks.

    No longer angry, feel validated, feel sorry for the one who is still alive.

    Also someobody, in the comments, mentioned "tiring." It is exhausting to be with narcissistic and otherwise difficult people who mean you ill.
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  4. New Leaf

    New Leaf Well-Known Member

    I am going through something weird right now, kind of a dazed out of body experience. I think all of this FOO work has exhausted me. It is not only tiring to come through FOO, it is exhausting to examine the history of it.
    I wrote that my experience was not as bad as some who have written here, and it was not blatantly, outrageously bad.
    But you know what? It was underlying, insidiously, slow drippy, water torture bad. So, bad that by my teen years, I just wanted OUT.

    Now I am wondering if I have been in denial about that, because I feel somewhat in a battered state. If I am not making any sense on this, it is because I am in sort of a shocky state? I do not know. I have been so throughly gaslighted through all of this.....
    Examination does not change the history, neither will it change the people who are my FOO, who I love dearly, but it is doing something to me.
    Not just mentally, but physically.

    I feel as if I have woken up from a troublesome nap, a deep sleep occurring too early in the day, when one is confused whether or not the clock reading 7:00, is am, or pm?
    I am in a FOG, friends, isn't all of this supposed to give me some sort of validation?

    Well, it isn't, it is invalidating my entire concept. I am running through the tape reels of my past, and saying, yes, uh huh, really? NO!

    It must be me, I am insane, I am imagining all of this? Am I?
    Who am I, what am I anyways?

    Did any of you go through these feelings?

    It is as if I am that child again, in my room, after being teased and tormented by my sister, and Mom has just told me to toughen up, don't be so sensitive. I am in my room thinking what is wrong with ME?

    But, I am 56, saying, no, you have got it wrong, you are over imagining things, over thinking it. I will tell you, it is not a good feeling. It is a horrible feeling. I do not want this to be true.
    But I see it. I SAW it, I lived it, and am still living the repercussions of it now.

    So, how do I come out of this? This entirely uncomfortable floaty, surreal feeling?

    I am thinking that Cedar, when you were going through the "uglies" it is something like this.

    So, I will work, the benedictines work, the simple act of doing, may help to bring me back, whoever I am. Whatever I am.

    Music, too, I will listen to soothing music, calm myself.

    I am not supposed to be feeling this way during the holidays. UGH.

    My FOO will never understand this.

    I am alone in this with them.

    weird, strange, floaty
  5. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I didn't deny it happened, but for a long time I was in the fog about whose fault it was. I thought all the dysfunction and my being ostracized was my own fault, even when I was an infant and child. I gave no role in my own family play to anyone else. I was the bad guy, period, although, in the back of my mind, I somehow couldn't really see anyone in my FOO as a GOOD guy, but I had such low self esteem that if somebody said I was bad, mental, selfish, stupid etc. it HAD to be true. It took me a long time and lots of therapy to see th at I was only one small part in one big dysfunctional family that has no well-balanced people in it.I didn't realize it until I was older and got to know my sister better...the REAL her...the one she hides from the world and is good at her acting. More about that in earlier posts. Done repeating about her. Like you said, it's exhausting!!!

    So much more on my journey, but I'm on my way now to see my granddaughter and daughter for Christmas in the NW Chicago burbs.

    Everyone have a serene and happy weekend!!!!
  6. New Leaf

    New Leaf Well-Known Member

    Oh Serenity, how lovely for you! Have a wonderful time, my sister.
  7. Scent of Cedar *

    Scent of Cedar * Well-Known Member

    I think that happens when we are forcing ourselves to confront denial. Once we break through it, we are without anchor or guidelines. We feel spacey which turns into spacious, into open: Into free.

    All we have then to guide us is whatever moral structure we've devised to see us through it the first time.

    It is like that saying I am always quoting: "What of him who has nothing? He will lose what he has."

    When the tiles of that mosaic first composed in blood on stone
    fall seamlessly together
    revealing no face but her own....

    Like that, I think Leafy.

    Perhaps you are coming alive. Or, like an avalanche victim, perhaps you are thawing out.

    This is stellar, New Leaf.

    I am happy for you. It helped us to hold compassion for ourselves, and for our families, as we came through. There was a time in my own process when I refused compassion for my mother in order to see what I needed to see. But I knew I would come back to it.

    That is why the Conduct Disorders motorcycle. It seems so strange to those who do not understand that need to be protected which turns out to have been the need to protect, all along.

    There is nothing noble about it.

    Sometimes, the stories are very ugly.

    No. They say that if we begin this quest, we must begin it with the intensity of someone whose hair is on fire.

    We are dismantling the self in a way, Leafy. We will need to dissolve old belief systems and that will make us naked and unsure and it will be very dark for a time ~ maybe, for a long time. It is best to have access to a therapist. If you continue Leafy, the feelings will intensify.

    They are overwhelming.

    If we are doing this right, the feelings are overwhelming.

    Find a therapist in your phone book New Leaf, and call to learn how long you would need to wait to see the therapist if you felt you needed her. If you have no access to a therapist then it might be best to wait before going further in your healing process.

    The deeper we go, the more the feelings intensify.

    It takes courage to listen, New Leaf.

    There is nothing you have to do. Holding an intention to be kinder to myself helped me.

    We are meant to be whole, and to heal. These tapes have been hissing away all along. The difference now is that you are hearing them.

    You re strong enough to hear them, now. We do not give ourselves more than we can take. Trust yourself. Keep the number of the therapist close to hand if you should go too far and get into trouble with one aspect of things or another. Take very good care of yourself now, New Leaf. We are people on an anonymous internet site. We can share the journey with you, but you may need eyes on contact with someone who knows how to help if you elect to go further.

    You need to be responsible to yourself, New Leaf.

    Each of us has had to learn that. It was very hard, but it was a beginning.

    It helped me, Leafy.

    It has to do with stilling the mind through concentration on simple work. Then, we understand there is something beneath and around and above the chaotic panicked place and...we can rest, there.

    And so, somehow, we come through.

    You will too, Leafy.

    We have been where you are.

    It will help you I think Leafy to see it as an honor. For us, there has never been a time we were supposed to feel whatever we did feel. That is why, sometimes, we develop other, acceptable names for feelings we are not supposed to have.

    And it gets all messed up with denial and judging and the awe/patronization circle and sometimes, we wish for the safety of not knowing.

    You are being brave, New Leaf.

    It is a very hard thing to dissolve our own defenses. But at the end of it? There you will be, maybe, for the first time.

    Don't forget or neglect to seek out a therapist to help you, if you should need her. It would be the best idea to see a therapist now anyway. It is part of taking care of ourselves, New Leaf. And taking care of ourselves, and valuing ourselves enough to do so, that is part of what we are all here trying to accomplish, too.

    We are those who generally take care of everyone else.

    But never, ever, ourselves.

    This is the first step to valuing our selves, our true selves, for real.

    I think you are doing fine, New Leaf.

    A therapist will help very much during this time. Someone who can validate "sane", because it does feel very much like insanity to come through this.

    You need to be able to make that decision to care for yourself enough to take care of yourself, New Leaf.

    This has not been easy for any of us. It required almost superhuman commitment to ourselves and to healing.

    We came through it.

    You will, too.

    But it is very hard.

  8. New Leaf

    New Leaf Well-Known Member

    The things I am remembering and thinking of Cedar, I feel bad, for feeling what I am feeling. BAD.
    Like I am dishonoring my FOO.
    Like I am over dramatizing, projecting things which didn't happen, but deep down, I know they did.

    It is not molestation, or violence, or anything like that.
    But my soul was violated......
    I could not be myself, I did not have a self........

    And, I am supposed to "Just get over it, Leafy, you have to get over it....it was the past, get your head out of the past...."

    So, when I speak with my FOO, interact with them, it has become this rote feeling. A feeling of going through the motions......

    Why do I have to be the one? Why?
    Why do I have to be the one to NAME this?

    My brother is messed up Cedar, all he ever yearned for from my Dad was validation, a pat on the back "Good job son, I am proud of you."
    Dad died, never giving that to my poor brother.
    Now he is just lost. He is a great father to his daughters, but his wife only complains of him not being able to emote, just distant.
    So, I see my brother mimicking my father, in his non-relationship with his wife. But, he is terrific with his kids.
    My lil sis, fared much better. She lived the better part of her life, with just my parents, doted on. Did all the right things, went to business college.

    My Dad, who we all loved and respected, became this silent enigma.

    It is so weird.

    Opening up this book is so weird....

    Thank you Cedar, I will think about seeing someone again, to try to help me walk through this.

    My FOO filters everything. I think I have learned to filter things the same way, with them. Put the blinders on. I have to be careful what I share with them.
    It is a weird cross between reality and looking at everything through rose colored glasses.

    I feel as if I am betraying them. I am at war with my memories and the picture that has been painted.

    I know Attilla is using that against me, now with Mom.
    So, when she calls I speak with the rose colored filter, because I have to.

    "Yes, the Kings robe is beautiful, oh my, look at the delicate weaving, the bejeweled hem."

    In my head screaming all the while, HE IS NAKED!!!!!

    "I am fine, everything is wonderful...."

    Well, I am not fine, it is not wonderful, I am struggling, dammit!
    My people do not have to struggle with me, just be empathetic, compassionate, understanding.

    Empathetic, turned around to pathetic-- Isn't her life PATHETIC?
    I do not want them to feel sorry for me, Cedar.

    A bit of understanding would do.


  9. Scent of Cedar *

    Scent of Cedar * Well-Known Member

    If you read earlier posts from our beginning time here, you will find posts for each of us where we needed to decide who the liar was. Was it myself, or...could it be that my mother told lies? It was an impossible place. It was like the Lion and the Tin Man and the Scarecrow confronting the witch's keep to save Dorothy.

    To save Dorothy.

    That is why you are engaging yourself at this level, Leafy.

    To save Dorothy.

    She is who matters. We are anonymous here, and so are you. No one knows you, no one knows your mother or your sibs. This anonymity guarantees safety and a safe place to heal.

    You are not bad, Leafy.

    You are Leafy.

    Good and bad, and trying to know how to live a life, like everyone.

    Like me, too.

    Like Serenity and Copa and all of us.

    Doing the best we know, and failing sometimes and coming through sometimes and continuing on because we have committed to saving Dorothy.

    Some bad things happened to me Leafy. The worst bad thing was learning to see myself through my abuser's eyes. It was not the other things. It was the truth of who I was, through the eyes of my abuser. The essence of what we are doing here (to me, anyway) on FOO Chronicles is learning to see our abusers through our eyes, and to learn never again to see ourselves through theirs. That is the essence of internal, versus external, locus of control.

    Seeing ourselves through our own eyes, and never through theirs again.

    That is harder than it sounds, but there is no finer feeling than reclaiming ourselves in this way, New Leaf.

    That is the essence of it: What happened to you was wrong. In a better world, such things would never happen, not to you and not to me and not to anyone, not ever. Because what happened was wrong, you never have to believe it again and there is not anyone, there is no one at all ever again, who can make you believe those wrong things about yourself or anyone else.

    But we need to be very brave to do that, to stand up to the horrible things our abusers taught us were our secret truths.

    They were wrong, Leafy.

    All along, all those years, every morning of your life...they were wrong.

    Now, you reclaim yourself.

    You are naming yourself, Leafy. Nothing to do with them.

    That's why. You win.

    Nothing to do with them.

    Each of us has to do this for him or her self.

    I'm so sorry, Leafy...but your people will fight you. Our families are not okay, Leafy. That is why we go into denial.

    Our families of origin are not okay.

    We believed that if we hoped and believed and held faith that we could all pull through this together and have that dinner I am forever posting about. That is the nature of my denial. That is what I sacrificed for and believed in and still cannot give up for once and for all.

    Whatever it is for you, that will be why you have sacrificed yourself to their interests. Whatever dream you hold about your family of origin, that is what you (and I do too) need to understand, to somehow come to terms with never having.


    If they could have given us what we needed, they would have.


    I want family the way I know people around me have family. I know such incredible things as healthy families exist because I see them, with my own two eyes, all the time.

    But pretending what we have is okay because we are working toward and believing in something that does not yet exist is lying, Leafy. I lie to myself about that possible good thing that could happen for me. But it is never going to happen, or I wold not have been hurt as I have in the first place.

    That is why this is so hard.

    That is what I mean when I post that quote: What of him who has nothing? He will lose what he has.

    And once we lose what we have, Leafy?

    We are free.


    In families like ours, where there are undercurrents we will never in a million years see the value of, we are being hurt or manipulated or used to justify someone else's power position. Or something. We are never going to get it, or understand it. According to my D H last night, we are not going to win. There is no win. The sacrifice is the sacrifice and they will need another, tomorrow. They will be looking for new blood, for someone to ally with and against and it will never stop.

    So, we need to stay present. We need to stay steady state. If you are upset by what you find as you come through Leafy, remind yourself to stay steady state.

    That was helpful to me.

    Do not allow hatred.

    No blaming.

    Anger is fine. Naming what happened is fine. Hatred or blaming will destroy us. I read that somewhere yesterday. Not in those words, but in these: Stare into the abyss and the abyss stares into you.

    It was a Nietzsche quote, more beautifully written than what I wrote above.

    Here you go, Leafy:


    Nietzsche also said that we love breathing because love comes first.

    Love comes first. Making ions from nothing and doing all kinds of other things and I know that you know that.

    Love came first.

    That is how we know you are meant to heal, and so am I.

    Because love was, first.

    Then, came the hurt.

    We are meant to be whole.

    Love came first.

    Damaged, not defective.

    Love came first.

    I'm sorry, Leafy. Your people are the ones who hurt you in the first place. Your healing has nothing to do with them. If they were able to give you what you need, they would already have done so. Know how I know that? Because love came first. It is a Universal Law I think, probably. Know they love you the best they can. Know also Leafy that you love them the best you can.

    Then, do better.

    Would you like to discuss how their thinking hurts you, Leafy? In my Family of Origin, that is the heart of the game. Jealousy, judgment that would never be even a potential behavior continuum in a healthy family, exclusion and favoritism and the whole, rotten gamut of emotional and personal and ethical and moral and physical betrayal.

    We are anonymous here, Leafy.

    We can work through what we need to with one another and come through it.

    Our lives are as we have created them to be, Leafy. Whether we find joy there or feel we have let ourselves down, that is our business to determine. It has nothing to do with our families of origin. If there is that kind of judgment there and if you feel the sting of it then you are seeing your life through their eyes. That is the wrongness. Not what they do Leafy, but what you allow.

    Your life is precious, Leafy. Just to breathe, just to be, that is so lucky, lucky a fortunate thing to have happened to any of us and there is no possible way our living and being alive could be construed as pathetic.

    Stop listening to that negative tape.

    This is a good beginning.

    That is a wrong tape, hissing away.

    Now that you know? You never have to listen, again.

    It was a lie the first time you heard it and it is a lie, today.

    Out it goes.


    When we know better, we do better. For sure this is true, this true thing that Maya taught us. If you envision Maya Angelou listening to the voice speaking those terrible words that your life is pathetic Leafy what is the expression on Maya's face? What does she think of your family of origin for speaking such stupid, pointless, obscenely evil words of something so beautiful as your life into the tiny, shell pink ears of that little girl that was you?


    You will be free of that one.

    There will be others.

    Take all the time you need. There will be gratitude where before there was that wickedly evil word: pathetic

    That was a lie.

    Like all lies, there is no truth to be found in it, no matter how many times you turn it over. Its only purpose was to hurt, was to do murder.

    Out it goes.

  10. New Leaf

    New Leaf Well-Known Member

    I hope this is where I am going Cedar, truly. I want to be free of all of this. Free to be me, and to accept myself as I am. But in writing this, I am realizing that I feel far from me, right now. Like I am looking at me, outside of myself.

    It is not even about seeing myself through my sisters eyes.

    Yes, I think this is part of the answer, as well as busy work.

    Finding grounding and foundation through the simple necessities of daily work.

    I will put this in my back pocket for now. I don't even know what I would begin to say to a therapist. Perhaps when I get further through this fog......

    I guess that is why I am hesitant to go seek out therapy, for now, what is real, and what is imagined? What do I want to accomplish, in all of this searching? What will I do, when the fog lifts?

    Yes, I think I have started to view things this way. It is a weird feeling of what in the world happened? The strange thing is, I am thinking this all correlates with what is going on with my d cs- you know? From the guilt and searching for answers with my d cs, to examining my past.
    Has my experience with FOO, filtered over to affect, infect, my children?

    Yes, I have been reading about the narcissistic continuum, Cedar, did you know about the term flying monkeys? Is this the reason for your avatar?
    I love the "Wizard of Oz", and have often felt that children's stories and literature is perhaps written by survivors of dysfunctional families, certain characters personified from actual family members, and their experience.
    It is a safe way to write of ones hardship, without identifying the source, also these stories have lessons and warnings for the readers.
    Flying monkeys, those who do the bidding of the narcissist. I do believe I, at one point, became a flying monkey. I didn't know it then, but I see it now. I was not Switzerland, though I thought I was, I was just a pawn, a flying monkey. I think my sister, has been trying to keep me from talking with my siblings, because if we all put our heads together, the gig is up.
    So, I called my lil sis, and encouraged her to read about narcissism.
    She said "You know J (her daughter) thinks Attilla is bi-polar."
    I said, well, that could be true, the point is, we need to be ready to deal with whatever is coming around the bend with mom.
    Yes, Cedar, I am wanting to get to this point, I thought I was, then boom, this stuff just whacked me upside the head.
    I feel like one of those bobble heads, in the back windshield of a car.

    I think I was trying so desperately all of my life to understand,to have the tormenting, gas-lighting stop, even then, I still wanted to get to a point of friendship with my sister.
    It comes at a very heavy price, I have found.
    This is true. I think in my parents case, it was easier to ignore the situation, then to try to deal with it. Not trying to excuse it, but I see that. My sister controlled a lot of things growing up.

    I have to remember to breathe, Cedar. I have been agitated, anxious, unbeknownst to me, hyperventilating. Or not even taking in deep breaths, it wasn't until my body physically rejected my state, that I realized what I was doing.
    I do not recall feeling so anxious, or besides myself, before.
    Maybe it is an accumulation of all that has been going on.
    Did I feel this as a child? Has this brought me back to occurrences I have long ago buried?
    Is this why I am out of my body-looking?
    I woke up this morning, head pounding, disoriented. I looked in the mirror, I had fingernail marks on my chin, my left cheek.
    I slept with my fingernails digging into my face, how weird is that?
    I was the broken one, Cedar. It was always me, there was something wrong with me, how else could I explain being alone in my room, most of the time? I stayed there, to protect myself.I went out and played, but each time, I was driven back to my room. Ostracized. I can't believe it as I am writing it. Am I just picking out a few times in my life? Remembering only the bad things?
    It happened, over and over again.
    I think the reaction was that there was something wrong with me.
    I think my sister denied things she had done, and they believed her.
    If I was so broken,
    why did they not get help for me?
    Why didn't anyone sit me down and say "What is wrong dear Leafy? Why are you so sad all the time? Why do you keep yourself in the room so much?

    "You can't keep living in the past" sister hisses.
    Mom repeats this, in a somewhat exasperated, weary, kind, caring tone
    "The past is the past...."
    Yes, the past is the past, it is, but there are some ugly, confusing, debilitating memories that I have.
    My feelings were denied then, and still are now.
    I am overreacting, over sensitive. Etc., etc., etc.
    Stop crying leafy, just stop crying. Stop feeling. What is wrong now?
    Rolling eyes and sighs.
    I was so alone, and lonely, for so long.
    I didn't like myself, thought something was wrong with me.
    Which translates now, to, is there something wrong with me?
    Life is precious, I agree Cedar.
    Blessed, I am blessed, in so many ways.
    I had this picture of myself, just pathetic, sad, miserable, low self esteem.
    I would walk for hours, as a teen. Just thinking, and dreaming, and wanting to be free. I could not figure it out, what was wrong with me.
    I didn't fit into my own family......how was I supposed to fit anywhere else?

    It was not my whole FOO, it was my sister. She had such power, dominance, control. I can hardly believe it myself Cedar, but it is true. Everyone just seemed to dance around her. I was stuck, scapegoated. I was the target. I was her target for so long. That was my existence.
    I suppose my parents bear some responsibility, because she was not stopped.

    How is it possible that one child can have so much control?

    Why didn't anyone see what was happening? Or did they?

    Questions just beget more questions.

    There is no one but me to answer them Cedar.

    The trick is now,
    to be able to believe myself.

    I will read through the early FOO writings.

    Thank you for your help Cedar,

  11. Scent of Cedar *

    Scent of Cedar * Well-Known Member

    I think the fog does not lift. We learn to navigate without stars.

    That is trust.

    Not knowing how we are getting exactly where we are going, but a sense of already being there, and motion.

    We are not reaching for ourselves anymore. We are here.

    This, for me, this has to do with that concept of internal, versus external, locus of control.

    We began this process, began what would later become FOO Chronicles, to become stronger people; to become stronger, more centered mothers. (Or fathers, though we have yet to welcome our first male.)

    It is working. In the process, we seem to be saving ourselves.

    It's like a circle.

    If we are ethical, if our intentions are good, then healing and wholeness incorporate with woundedness. Just like if we fall and skin our knees, we don't need to monitor or think about which cells are healing and whether we will ever grow skin again. Of course that is what will happen.

    It makes sense that emotional woundings will heal the same way.


    We just have to set our intention (and this is where the moral questions come in, I think, and the ethical ones) and believe ~ which is why ethical choice matters. This is what all myths are about, really.

    If we are not ethical, then healing and wholeness take longer. But we are meant to be whole; we are meant to experience ourselves as whole beings, capable of great joy in the simplest things. I think this is true. I am not finding so much joy in constructed or complex social interaction kinds of things lately.

    Everything is too jangly.

    But I am loving that Christmas music I have been playing.


    I did not know that, Leafy. The red slippers represent menarche ~ the young girl becoming a woman. Our rite of passage. My choice of avatar has something to do with that. With self reclamation: "This lady was all like 'Gimme yo shoes" and I was like "Witch, please."

    In the beginning, one of the imageries I worked with had to do with which aspects of self had been "given" or allowed, by my mother and which were intrinsic, not only to me, but to being alive ~ to being a living human female, with all the power that implies.

    And there is a great deal of power in being a human female ~ or a female of any species.

    And a great deal of vulnerability.

    I work so often with images of whore.

    Not very pretty, is it.

    True, though.

    Little pieces of integrity sold off, sold away, disbelieved, at the behest of my abuser.

    I was a child. I do not understand now, as an adult, how to understand the nature of the wounded places.

    But we are doing fine. The answer is: Learn to hold that little girl that was you with honor. That is compassion.


    There is power too, for the abusive, unethical, narcissistic mother, in her daughter's coming to power. It changes the victim/oppressor dynamic the abusive parent will have set up. Narcissistic mothers will try to get those shoes with all their might. But they are aging, and the daughter is birthing children of her own.

    So this avatar has to do with legitimacy of self and purpose, then, in the way that imagery of the whore bathing in the sun had such intense meaning for me, too.

    The "lady" being discussed in my avatar is my mother. "Gimme yo shoes"

    "Witch, please."

    So, my avatar is about self-reclamation.

    When I change it, it will be to the strong, well-muscled foot of the ballerina, on pointe.

    Then, we will know I am healed; that I am whole and my own, again.

    Why the back windshield, Leafy?

    Who is driving the car?

    That is good. It was happening all along, but you were not able to trust yourself enough to know.

    Trim your nails, journal, respect yourself and everyone in your household. Practice humility. The defenses will have been built around pride and humility and judging and forgiving. Around loving and rejection and rejecting.

    You can do this, Leafy.

    If you decide you wish to change, you will change. That is the risk we all take, Leafy. That is the discomfort, the reason we go into denial: We believe the abuser. If we can be tricked into believing they protect us from some horrible something that is true about ourselves, they will have created the opening through which they stride to claim what is rightfully ours for themselves.

    For the stupidity and emptiness of grandiosity.

    That is what I mean when I post that we need to see ourselves through our own eyes, and never through theirs, on any level, again. It turns out to be more complex than we knew, but we are doing well. We are coming through beautifully, and you will, too.

    For us, the levels now have to do with resolving questions of integrity.

    The first question, the one we return to again and again, on every level, is: "Who is the liar, here. Me, or my abuser?"

    Because the abuser believed it to be you, and because we were only little girls (or little boys) when these terrible things happened to us, we believe the abuser was correct. These belief systems were sealed beneath layer after layer of mortal fear or we would not find ourselves in the predicament of having deserted ourselves for most of our lives. We are like soldiers, taken captive and brainwashed into believing lies.

    Only the soldiers knew if they survived, they would be going home.

    We were home.


    That is why we may need a Maya or the black lady from Matrix or Lisa Vanderpump to witness for us.

    Or maybe, we need God to witness for us.

    A blind and savaged Child recall
    its first and bloodied tears
    copper colored fears

    As we heal, we realize our complicity in believing the abuser was telling the truth about us. Once that happens, it becomes only a matter of courage. We have been very brave, all of our lives. The word we were given for our bravery by our abusers was: Coward. Or, Fraud.

    Once we get that part though? And we realize it is only going to be scary and dangerous?

    We saddle up and in we go. We have been afraid all of our lives...but of the wrong things. That is why nothing makes sense. Our abusers were wrong about every smallest thing. And certainly, they were wrong in how they met their responsibilities to their own children.

    Given the choice of loving of victimization, they chose to victimize.

    We only need to see that.

    Then, we can begin self-rescuing, which involves the way we see and think.

    If you haven't read Joseph Campbell and his writing on the Hero's Quest Leafy, this will be a good time for you to do that. Just do an internet search. Charles Williams is the writer I most respect in all the world. Read: Descent Into Hell, if you can. That is my favorite book, and I read a great deal. Read Patricia Evans on Verbally Abusive relationship. Eckhart Tolle has interesting things to say about how we interpret reality. Frank Herbert, Bill Ransom, Stephen King, Anne Rice. all of them, interesting takes on how to see. Simple Abundance, by Sarah Ban Breathnack will bring the sincerity of gratitude.

    And once that happens, we begin to heal with a bullet.

    It isn't about them, New Leaf.

    This is for you.

    The key thing I think is to learn where we are seeing ourselves through their eyes. Call in witness; if you are wrong, change it. If there has been cruelty and torture, choose love.


    All those are really simple words but impossible things to accomplish.

    None of this is easy.

    No one fits anywhere else, Leafy.

    You need to be your own center.

    That is what we are doing, here on FOO Chronicles.

    Reclaiming the center of self. The abusers were wrong from the beginning. They never were right. We are there, waiting for ourselves. All we need to do is show up determined to love the child that we were.

    That's it.

    The hard part is confronting the feelings our abusers convinced us were true.

    The liar is my Mother, Leafy. I love her. The question becomes do I love her more than I love me? So, my job is to love me.

    That is all we are doing, here on FOO Chronicles.

    Learning to cherish ourselves.

    Easy cheesy.

    In retrospect.


    I don't know any answers, Leafy. I only know that when I make accusations, I am on a wrong path. I am other directed when I do that. We need to be self directed before we can heal. It isn't about the sister. It is about loving the little girl that you were, whoever the abuser was.

    It is not about accusing anyone else. It is not about blaming or finding a villain or a village to pillage. It is about loving you.

    This will be harder than you think.

    If you are able Leafy, and you set an intention of health and wholeness and of compassion for yourself now and for the little girl you were then, I think you will come through beautifully.

    This is not about the sister, Leafy.

    You are angry at yourself.

    You are seeing yourself through the eyes of your abuser. This is retraumatizing you. You have been hurt too many times already. This has not helped you or anyone else.

    Stop doing that, New Leaf.

    Love that little girl that you were.

    There is no other answer.

    Nothing to do with the sister.

    Everything to do with you, and with how you decided to see yourself.

    Very hard to get there.

    You can do it.

    You are asking the wrong questions, New Leaf.

    "How do I go about saving (which has to do with seeing her with compassion instead of repulsion), holding strong for, believing in, that little girl who was me."

    That is the question.

    There is no other question.

    Think of IZ.

    How did he do that.

    How did he feel comfortable and appreciative and entirely present as the woman cared for him, groomed and braided his hair.

    How did he do that.

    That is where we are going.

    That place.

  12. New Leaf

    New Leaf Well-Known Member

  13. New Leaf

    New Leaf Well-Known Member

    Honor, compassion, build on that, rather than what happened, I cannot change that. I can look back and say I came through a tough time.

    I had to think about this for a bit Cedar. At first, my answer was..... the imagery from the bobble heads I have seen in the back windshield of cars, just that. That was how I was feeling. I was sick with a weird right side headache, almost a migraine, but not, when I wrote this.

    Now that I think more of it, my sister is driving, but so am I, in another car following behind......is that strange?

    Thank you Cedar, I will do these things.

    I like this imagery, we are like soldiers.
    I have had many moments of feeling strong and real, then moments of self doubt and role.
    I think when I am down, that is when it all creeps back in...

    This is true, Cedar-fraud. So, if no one else in our FOO understood, or believed, how were we to? We were just little girls. Stuff I buried is surfacing, and I am made to look at it. It is not that I live this every day, it bubbles up now and then. When it does surface it is undeniable.
    I have to look at it, it screams at me from my insides.
    I didn't make this up.
    Unfortunately, I didn't make it up.

    We have to be our own witnesses, don't we.
    But it will be okay, we will get through this, at least there is a name for it.
    I cannot go back and fix it, but I can move forward.I am hoping that each time I experience this weirdness, this fog, I can come out of it a little stronger and more trusting of myself.
    It helps to be able to share this.
    Thank you from the bottom of my heart, for your posts and kind responses, Cedar.
    This is true. It was about power and control, more than anything. I do not understand the win of it, but it is what it is.
    I was not deserving of the ill treatment. I was a child.

    You are correct, Cedar, there will be no verification, not ever.
    I will have to trust myself and my memories.
    I will have to regroup again. I have done it before.
    I seem to be going about by life fine for awhile, then bam, here it comes again, like a tidal wave.
    It knocks me off of my feet.
    Usually, I just sequester myself, hard to do when I am working.
    You know, some days I get up and feel a bit out of sorts.

    I have found through periods of my life, I need alone time.
    I am alright with being in solitude.

    Embrace the inner child. I have to get back my "muchness".

    True, there is nothing I can do to change the past. It's the flashbacks....and the flash forwards, I will still have to deal with my sister.

    I do think I need to educate myself on this.
    Finding better ways to respond to her now, or in the future, when I go back to help my mom.
    I do not want to battle with my sister, there is no point in it, neither do I want to lose myself.
    Can one prepare? Keep conversations simple.
    I think the more I bolster myself,
    change my response patterns, just like towards my d c's.....

    You are right Cedar, I do recognize that I have repeated patterns, and become a victim even in my adult life. I would think, geez do I have a kick me sign? I have involved myself in situations, on community boards and such where after the true colors appeared, I really should have just walked off.... I think I am learning to be better at saying NO, being more careful about how I spend my time, who I trust.
    This means to me also, seeing how others treat me, and other folks for what it is, too. Standing up for myself, as well as recognizing unhealthy situations, and not signing up for volunteering when it is too much. Volunteering is good, but when it overtakes too much of your life, no good.
    I was talking with one of Sons coaches, such a nice, kind person. He has had some pretty bad experiences with some wolves in the paddling world. People just taking advantage of his kindness and generosity.
    So, I am not alone in my experience with this.

    It is all about continuing to learn and grow.

    "As a single footstep will not make a path on the earth, so a single thought will not make a pathway in the mind. To make a deep physical path, we walk again and again. To make a deep mental path, we must think over and over the kind of thoughts we wish to dominate our lives."

    I wonder too, if I am cycling, because the last "funk" I was in, was about a month ago. Hormones?

    I really appreciate your help and knowledge Cedar.

    Thank you so very much for taking time to guide me through this.


    "There is no value in life except what you choose to place upon it and no happiness in any place except what you bring to it yourself."

    If we will be quiet and ready enough, we shall find compensation in every disappointment.
    *Henry David Thoreau
  14. New Leaf

    New Leaf Well-Known Member

    This We Have Now
    This we have now
    is not imagination.
    This is not
    grief or joy.
    Not a judging state,
    or an elation,
    or sadness.
    Those come and go.
    This is the presence that doesn't.

    I am trying to concentrate on this, Cedar, what I have now.
    Coming out of the foggy feeling.......to this

    Mahalo nui for your kokua
  15. rebelson

    rebelson Active Member

    SWOT, how is your "real" sister vs. what she shows to others?
  16. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    rebel, we have reconciled and promised not to discuss this anymore. I will say I am very happy right now in every aspect of my life.