Copa, I agree. My relationship with God is the only thing that keeps me sane and not in complete despair. Although I've been shocked by the way his life has turned out at this point, God is not shocked. Thirty-five years ago this week, God knew what was ahead for us, and in His wisdom, He has allowed it. I cling to that and I cling to what I know to be true of His character.
Hello?
- Thread starter Beta
- Start date
KSM,
It's funny you should say that because the last few days I've been thinking about those of you who DO have regular contact with your adult child and deal with their mental health issues, addiction, etc. on a regular basis. Of the two circumstances--having to bear the absence and silence of your child and not knowing where they are or how they are and having to deal with their manipulation and abuse, I think the latter is the more painful. I miss Josh and I am afraid for him but I don't have to have his addiction right before my eyes every day as many parents do.
Yes, I keep busy too. The hard times for me are at night, especially in the middle of the night. I wake up several times throughout each night unfortunately, and my thoughts always go to Josh. I pray for him then.
Yes! That hits the nail on the head. That's where some of the shock comes from I think.
So Very Drained
Member
Oh my gosh, I so feel your pain in your writing. And I am so sorry for it. God bless you.... Waiting for answers to the "why" can be very difficult.... Hugs.
So Very Drained
Member
Wish there was a "hug" emoji.
Thank you SVD for your words and your virtual hug. Back at you!
Wow. I have an extremely similar, if not the exact same feeling. I feel used, manipulated...like she thinks of me/us as a creepy bank in life there to support her whims. Not like a caring, loving, giving parent...who has done so so much, yet it's very unclear if it is appreciated at all.. IF there is even ANY gratitude or respect. I often feel like it's simply a tragedy...I don't know how else to describe it sometimes. I keep on praying.
I would agree--I feel we've been used as an ATM machine by our son. I have had doubts about his love and gratitude for at least the last ten years, as I look back on the things we've done for him just in that time. Yet, when we have needed him, he's not been willing to be available. It's been two months since he learned of his dad's cancer diagnosis from a friend of his, and still no word from him.
Sometimes I wonder when we became objects to be used and manipulated for his needs.
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
With my Joseph, I can't see anymore any of what I knew to be his character until his early 20's. He is a year older than Josh.
He is mean. He is a user. (of people and drugs.)
He was the sweetest child. Just the most loving. I would almost say pure.
He did not have in him the way to mature, hanging onto his goodness. It is hard to hope anymore.
I fought so hard to hold onto that goodness. What is it, 10,000 posts? The thing is, he didn't or couldn't.
New Leaf
Well-Known Member
Hi Beta and everyone,
My apologies….again and again, for not posting sooner, I have been busy trying to catch up with my jungle garden, spending time with family, and actually putting my artist hoard to use, back to painting.
I don’t see Tornado and Rain very often, and when I do it is…..distressing, disturbing, and makes me sad. The feelings cascade through me, but I can’t allow myself to despair over their lifestyles, as I have no control over their choices and going to the edge of the rabbit hole is a terrible ordeal. Looking back at these long years since they have fallen into addiction and the consequences there of, there is this distinct pattern of them disappearing into their using, then reappearing with some sort of calamity, health and abusive boyfriend issues for Rain, and Tornado, in and out of jail, rehab. My participation in that patterning is slowly dwindling, I still go through a process when I see them, but not as devastating as in years past. Am I calloused? I think a bit, one has to develop some sort of thick skin in order to survive. Rain is still living under a bridge, Tornado is someplace in hiding as she has a bench warrant. She says she is in a house with her ex boyfriend’s family, who knows? It’s been a long stretch of time and misery for the family, so at one point, it becomes a macabre routine, a continuous loop of sorts. The only way to survive is to find pathways to pull out of the loop, stop knee jerk reacting and learn and relearn responses to maintain sanity. Not an easy task. I find giving them to God over and again has helped me tremendously, but do have to work at avoiding the slippery slope of regressing into overwhelming circular thinking and feeling. Beta you mentioned how difficult it is to be far away from your wayward son, but also how hard it is for those of us who have had to see the twists and turns of addiction and homelessness up close. I think both are equally difficult. These are our beloveds, no matter where they are, it is a heart wrench to know the degradation of their choices.
I do have hope, but the years, the history of encounters and repetitive same old same old have taken its toll. How does one balance faith and hope with the harsh, in your face reality and ugly truth of what our beloveds have become?
I am traveling northeast in two weeks, my Moms health is fading and my sister does not think she will be here for my usual fall journey. I can’t tell my two that I am going to visit their grandmother. I worry that they will take advantage of my absence. I suppose, Copa, that is a sort of labeling them “bad”. It is also a cognizance of what has happened in the past and what they are capable of. How sad to have to set such boundaries with one’s own adult children. To recognize and understand that they have lost so much of what is good and decent, to be able to see me as an opportunity, more so than see me as their mother. I believe it is coupled with their own self degradation, their own demise into their addiction and lack of boundaries and self care. If they do not have self love, self respect, how can they love or respect others? When Rain had her health scare in January, I had her come to my home, I think I posted of it. Her boyfriend, Mumbles showed up and I felt entrapped and scared. I do believe she called him, and when I texted my well children they came on the fly to talk with her about it. She was confrontational and spouting about us living in our “comfort boxes” whilst she and others like her struggle on the streets. She defended her abusive boyfriend saying how “he is the only one that shows up for me.” Etc. How we can just “go to the ATM and get money, while they have to struggle to survive. It’s all turned around in her head. We are the “normies” and they are the outcasts. We are despised for what we have, but at the same time, a convenient place to pop up for a shower, a change of clothes. Sigh.
Tornado recently posted on Instagram “The world is better off without me.” I called her and asked her “What is going on?” She laughed and said she’s okay, that she is too self absorbed to do anything drastic, that she just wanted to see who would respond. Who the heck does that? Tornado, Tornado does that and it’s a pretty twisted thing to do.
Got to keep building that toolbox and keep the armor shined up.
God help us all.
Much love to you dear friends. Keep up the good fight. It is not an easy battle, that’s for sure.
We are worth every effort to uphold and maintain our dignity, peace and joy.
Nui ke Aloha,
New Leaf
My apologies….again and again, for not posting sooner, I have been busy trying to catch up with my jungle garden, spending time with family, and actually putting my artist hoard to use, back to painting.
I don’t see Tornado and Rain very often, and when I do it is…..distressing, disturbing, and makes me sad. The feelings cascade through me, but I can’t allow myself to despair over their lifestyles, as I have no control over their choices and going to the edge of the rabbit hole is a terrible ordeal. Looking back at these long years since they have fallen into addiction and the consequences there of, there is this distinct pattern of them disappearing into their using, then reappearing with some sort of calamity, health and abusive boyfriend issues for Rain, and Tornado, in and out of jail, rehab. My participation in that patterning is slowly dwindling, I still go through a process when I see them, but not as devastating as in years past. Am I calloused? I think a bit, one has to develop some sort of thick skin in order to survive. Rain is still living under a bridge, Tornado is someplace in hiding as she has a bench warrant. She says she is in a house with her ex boyfriend’s family, who knows? It’s been a long stretch of time and misery for the family, so at one point, it becomes a macabre routine, a continuous loop of sorts. The only way to survive is to find pathways to pull out of the loop, stop knee jerk reacting and learn and relearn responses to maintain sanity. Not an easy task. I find giving them to God over and again has helped me tremendously, but do have to work at avoiding the slippery slope of regressing into overwhelming circular thinking and feeling. Beta you mentioned how difficult it is to be far away from your wayward son, but also how hard it is for those of us who have had to see the twists and turns of addiction and homelessness up close. I think both are equally difficult. These are our beloveds, no matter where they are, it is a heart wrench to know the degradation of their choices.
Glad to “see” you Dad, focusing on the good things and prayer helps me too.
Hi Nomad, oh my gosh, you have been through so much with your daughter. God bless and keep you and your husband.
Im glad for her, ksm. I hope that she continues.
I am amazed at your strength in caregiving for your great grandson. He has love and stability with you and your husband. Tornado is much like your granddaughter. She is in a disconnect with her children, and now 4 grandchildren, through her eldest son. But, she wants to know they are “there” for her.
I’m so sorry for your loss, k. May God carry you through this difficult time.
Wow. Oh my.
Prayers going up for your health Nandina.
How I know those feelings Letgo.
It is a hard road to travel, Beta, but you are so worth the effort to live your best life, despite what your sons choices are.
This. Tornado used to talk of “unconditional” love and I know I’ve written of it many times. Her definition of that is that her family should be there for her, no matter what she does. She has completely bypassed the hurt she has inflicted with her choices. No apologies, just pops in and out.
I think I have gone through (and still go through) a myriad of levels, emotions and posts trying to reckon circumstances with my two. I know what they are capable of, and am on edge when they are in my home. I don’t trust them, not one bit. Is it that they are “bad”? Well, yah. Who the heck just comes with so many expectations, but no remorse, no natural affection, the list goes on. I have to see them for what they are, what their choices have been, how far they have stooped in my home.
I see you Nomad. It is like some sort of awful game.
This seems to be my two as well. When they were very young, loving decent little humans. Looking back, the changes I saw were around puberty. They have become unrecognizable through these years. My well daughters often say that they are not “them” anymore. They are in the same shell, but not the same sisters they remember. They give me the grace of going through the process I need to when I have had contact, but they are more stoic. Tornado and Rain are not who I knew them to be. They are too busy chasing dragons. We are just potential victims of their manipulation.
I do have hope, but the years, the history of encounters and repetitive same old same old have taken its toll. How does one balance faith and hope with the harsh, in your face reality and ugly truth of what our beloveds have become?
I am traveling northeast in two weeks, my Moms health is fading and my sister does not think she will be here for my usual fall journey. I can’t tell my two that I am going to visit their grandmother. I worry that they will take advantage of my absence. I suppose, Copa, that is a sort of labeling them “bad”. It is also a cognizance of what has happened in the past and what they are capable of. How sad to have to set such boundaries with one’s own adult children. To recognize and understand that they have lost so much of what is good and decent, to be able to see me as an opportunity, more so than see me as their mother. I believe it is coupled with their own self degradation, their own demise into their addiction and lack of boundaries and self care. If they do not have self love, self respect, how can they love or respect others? When Rain had her health scare in January, I had her come to my home, I think I posted of it. Her boyfriend, Mumbles showed up and I felt entrapped and scared. I do believe she called him, and when I texted my well children they came on the fly to talk with her about it. She was confrontational and spouting about us living in our “comfort boxes” whilst she and others like her struggle on the streets. She defended her abusive boyfriend saying how “he is the only one that shows up for me.” Etc. How we can just “go to the ATM and get money, while they have to struggle to survive. It’s all turned around in her head. We are the “normies” and they are the outcasts. We are despised for what we have, but at the same time, a convenient place to pop up for a shower, a change of clothes. Sigh.
Tornado recently posted on Instagram “The world is better off without me.” I called her and asked her “What is going on?” She laughed and said she’s okay, that she is too self absorbed to do anything drastic, that she just wanted to see who would respond. Who the heck does that? Tornado, Tornado does that and it’s a pretty twisted thing to do.
Got to keep building that toolbox and keep the armor shined up.
God help us all.
Much love to you dear friends. Keep up the good fight. It is not an easy battle, that’s for sure.
We are worth every effort to uphold and maintain our dignity, peace and joy.
Nui ke Aloha,
New Leaf
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
My son did this a few weeks ago. In a way it was good for me. It turns out he called and told me his friend Kent had died. Kent is this "great guy," upstanding guy who only sells weed. "Such a great, great guy. Clean."
Me: "Oh, I'm sorry, Joseph. How did he die?"
"Meth. It was the woman he got involved with. It should have been me."
Me: "Nooo." (An immediate and involuntary gasp of agony.) And I hang up the phone. I have nothing more to hear from him or to say.
You see, my son for 12, 15 years has despised Meth, what it does to people, and how the people become who are users. He has expressed contempt and superiority (???) What hypocrisy. He protects the memory of Kent, who violated his own espoused beliefs and turns the aggression onto me. I am just sick of it. I am nobody's whipping boy. And that is what I have become. All of these years trying to help him change. And then later, how unbearable it was for me to let go. For what?
It gets to the point where the truth is more bearable than self-deception. The truth is my son hurts me and uses me. He is self-indulgent and lazy. The way he lives bears no relation to the way we lived together. The person he is is nothing like I am. He is so little the person I lived with and raised. I have as much In common with him as I do with any other street person. The time for taking responsibility on my part is long past.
I just don't know what to say. But here I am at this point.
M told my son, "I feel sure your Mom will let you stay in the apartment if you go to a treatment program for 3 months."
M is wrong. I thought about it. Maybe if he were to go to a residential treatment program (he won't) and gets psychiatric help (he won't) and then goes into a intensive one year sober living program (he won't) with intensive case management afterwards (he won't) I might have a conversation. But that part of me that wants to be in a relationship with him of any sort, is atrophied. It's gone.
I want to live for myself.
I seem to have turned a corner. I am not sounding like the person all of you know. I don't know why.
I'm glad you posted New Leaf. I pray for your mother and your family. Be well. Love, Copa
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Copa,
I could have written these words. I can feel the pain you must have been feeling when you wrote them. I am so, so sorry.
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
I am so, so sorry, too, Beta. I would have given everything for this not to be so for us and for our grown children.
Copa, you remind me sooo much of a woman with an adopted son, now I believe in his 20s, although I'm uncertain of his age. The local church has a support group for folks "like us," and I did not join from the onset, so I don't know her full story. She is mom to the boy and his sister. The sister is difficult, but something went VERY haywire with the boy causing extreme, heavy duty chaos to the family. I have some insight/stories, but don't want to say what. But, it's the usual stuff and a LOT OF IT. The boy left the home and simply wanders around the general area, unless he can get to sleep on someone's couch now and then. When it first happened (he left) the police threatened her because she wouldn't take him back into her home. Then they hinted that they could get her in trouble with her work. Geez. But she said, she would NOT have him back into her home and she needed help and they had to help her, because having him back into her home was not going to happen. I think he was just shy of 18 at the time, but of course now he is older. Anyway, they took him before a judge and some temporary housing situation was arranged....but that didn't last long. What I noticed is she is different. And it's more and more noticeable as time passes. I only go myself now and then to these meetings, so I only see her now and then. I think he is still for the most part roaming the streets. But, she, although an extremely hard working, nice, caring and spiritual person...has changed when it comes to him. That nurturing part of her with this young man, her son, has pretty much left the building . As I say with my own situation...it's a tragedy. (((hugs)))
New Leaf
Well-Known Member
Through time and the challenges we have faced with our waywards choices I think we begin to evolve and come to our senses. We have to for our own survival. My daughters have replaced family with like minded addicts, abusive boyfriends, meth use. That has become their comfort zone.
Yes. The truth is more bearable than self deception. I would not befriend anyone with the same characteristics as my two. We are worlds apart. I have no control over what they do. The responsibility for their choices lies with them. They have to want to live differently and at this time, they do not want to.
Three months in rehab in comparison to years on the streets. Not enough time. I am glad you want to live for yourself.
It has been years Copa. How much can a person bear?
I spent yesterday an emotional wreck. Sister called and said that the visiting nurse came and Moms oxygen was low, and she needed to go to the hospital. Mom said no. The nurse placed her under home hospice. Sister later called an ambulance, Mom spent three hours in the ER before a doctor examined her. She wanted to go home. I was able to get an earlier flight out and will be going tomorrow. It is a rough trip there in more ways than the long flight. It’s hard being so far away. I am blessed to have my Hoku step in and care for my granddaughter and the house.
I’m so sorry for all of us who have had to endure this. It is heartbreaking. I do think it is extremely tough when it is one’s only child.
May God give us strength.
New Leaf
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
Last night I just sobbed. Keened. Grieved for myself and my life. I haven't done that in a long, long time. The (4) cats were frightened. Pure grief and emotional exhaustion. I thought of the inherent worthlessness of my life. The defeat. With all the sharing and honesty, our words never really touch the agony. Our children are supposed to thrive. They are our legacy. They are the pearls of our lives. What we have all gone through is Hell.
New Leaf
Well-Known Member
Oh Copa, the floodgates of it all have opened. I’m so very sorry for the pain of it. The grief. I have always thought that grieving over our living beloveds choices is much more difficult than the grief death brings. There is a finality in death. Though we do grieve forever having lost a loved one, it lessens a bit with time. Our wayward adult children are another more complicated grief journey. The timing with my twos appearances or calamities seems to coincide with the rise and fall of my own emotional status. Just when I think I have somewhat healed- boom, there they are. Your life, our lives are not worthless because of the paths our adult children choose. You are a good loving caring person and mother. You have contributed much in working in prisons and guiding those who have made mistakes to reclaim their lives. There is way, way more to your life story, than this hard battle you have fought to try to help your son, then realizing the truth that it is up to HIM. It is agony to see our “pearls” slide down this slippery, degraded slope of horrible choices and consequences. A nightmare. Looping.
Your life has not been worthless.
Where there is life, there is hope.
There is always a chance for our adult children to find their light.
As we grieve, we also have the hard task to try to strive to live our best lives, to set boundaries on how we are treated, to stop being “whipping” boys and draw those lines towards reclaiming our own lives apart from what our adult children do. To let God and let go of the chains we built that bind us to the actions of our adult children.
To honor and recognize our own devastation and process the grief, but also to set boundaries on our propensity to go to self degrading thoughts. No, dear Copa, your life has not been worthless. You have faced many, many excruciating challenges in dealing with your son. You have gone to the depths and beyond to try to help him. You have used your plight and been honest about your ordeal, your challenges, your rising above the rabbit hole, to help others here on CD draw from your strength and your ability to share the most intimate, vulnerable moments you have experienced.
Please take time to rest and recover. Do something that brings you peace. You are worth the effort you are striving for to reclaim your life. That’s the work we all have to do. To rise above the grief and agony, and live.
Hugs and much love to you
Leaf
Your life has not been worthless.
Where there is life, there is hope.
There is always a chance for our adult children to find their light.
As we grieve, we also have the hard task to try to strive to live our best lives, to set boundaries on how we are treated, to stop being “whipping” boys and draw those lines towards reclaiming our own lives apart from what our adult children do. To let God and let go of the chains we built that bind us to the actions of our adult children.
To honor and recognize our own devastation and process the grief, but also to set boundaries on our propensity to go to self degrading thoughts. No, dear Copa, your life has not been worthless. You have faced many, many excruciating challenges in dealing with your son. You have gone to the depths and beyond to try to help him. You have used your plight and been honest about your ordeal, your challenges, your rising above the rabbit hole, to help others here on CD draw from your strength and your ability to share the most intimate, vulnerable moments you have experienced.
Please take time to rest and recover. Do something that brings you peace. You are worth the effort you are striving for to reclaim your life. That’s the work we all have to do. To rise above the grief and agony, and live.
Hugs and much love to you
Leaf
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
Thank you New Leaf. So very, very much. I was locked out of the site last night and therefore could not respond. I do feel better. I know my life is more than my son. I am trying to be oh so gentle with myself. Your words are a salve. Thank you again, Love, Copa
New Leaf
Well-Known Member
Im so glad you feel better Copa. I spent a day and a half flying over the ocean and the continent to go straight from the airport and be with my mom as she crossed over to the next journey. Things happen as they do, and though my mom could no longer speak, we found ways to connect before she took her last breath. It was the hardest thing to do, but I am thankful to have been there in her final hours. She was such a dear sweet soul and I will miss our chats on the phone and fall visits. She is no longer suffering and has flown with angels to be with my dad. She will always be with me. Rest in peace mom.
