Hello?

Dad34

Member
Copa, as I read your post I instantly thought the same thing that New Leaf said several times in her response. Namely, your life is absolutely NOT inherently worthless! You have helped me and so many others on this forum, and that alone shows an inherent worthiness, wisdom and caring to your life, that you would care enough about others to help them. I think I do understand your thought process though, because it’s so easy to get overwhelmed by grief and even blame ourselves for what has happened to our wayward adult children. They are our legacy, the pearls of our lives, and have been stolen from us. We have and continue to go through hell. I finally talked to my daughter this week, on the phone. She had just gotten out of the hospital for detox (again), but still thinks she doesn’t need rehab. I don’t know how long her body can keep surviving this, and it breaks my heart. So, as you already know, you are not alone; we all share your grief. But I believe God does hear our prayers as we “Let go and let God”. I brace for the worst, but there is hope too. Shalom, peace to you.
New Leaf, my condolences for your mother’s passing. Sending prayers your way.
 

ksm

Well-Known Member
Im so glad you feel better Copa. I spent a day and a half flying over the ocean and the continent to go straight from the airport and be with my mom as she crossed over to the next journey. Things happen as they do, and though my mom could no longer speak, we found ways to connect before she took her last breath. It was the hardest thing to do, but I am thankful to have been there in her final hours. She was such a dear sweet soul and I will miss our chats on the phone and fall visits. She is no longer suffering and has flown with angels to be with my dad. She will always be with me. Rest in peace mom.
I'm so sorry, New Leaf. It was a blessing for you two to be together in her final earthly moments. Hugs. Ksm
 

Nandina

Member
New Leaf, your loving words paint a beautiful picture of your mother. You were fortunate to have her in your life for as long as you did, and I’m so relieved to know you were with her when she made her transition. May God comfort you in your sorrow and bless you with loving memories of your precious Mom.
Love and hugs, Nandina
 

Nomad

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Oh Copa and everyone....I'm so very sorry. The grief is enormous. I had a friend tell me my grief she felt was probably worse than hers and her incredibly well functioning adult child was killed in a horrible car accident. I'll tell ya...that hurt and took my breath away. I was a little mad at first, but I'm not anymore. I somewhat understand. We must take excellent care of ourselves and keep on praying. (((hugs)))
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I am so very sorry, New Leaf, about the death of your Mom, but so glad for you that you were with her. May her memory be a blessing.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
we all share your grief
Thank you Dad. I am better. Years ago there was no sunshine at all in my life. Now, I am able to return to myself very quickly. Thank you for your encouraging words. I pray that your daughter can find some sense.
Oh Copa and everyone....I'm so very sorry.
Thank you Nomad. It's scary when the site seems to be going down. We've spent more time together with greater intimacy and trust than 99.9 percent of friendships. Thank you, all of my dear friends. I am so grateful to you. I feel known and seen by you. To me that is the greatest gift. Love, Copa
 
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Fairy dust

Active Member
Im so glad you feel better Copa. I spent a day and a half flying over the ocean and the continent to go straight from the airport and be with my mom as she crossed over to the next journey. Things happen as they do, and though my mom could no longer speak, we found ways to connect before she took her last breath. It was the hardest thing to do, but I am thankful to have been there in her final hours. She was such a dear sweet soul and I will miss our chats on the phone and fall visits. She is no longer suffering and has flown with angels to be with my dad. She will always be with me. Rest in peace mom.
So very sorry for your loss New Leaf. May the wonderful memories of your Mom help you through your grief. One day the tears will turn to smiles. Hugs!
 

Fairy dust

Active Member
Last night I just sobbed. Keened. Grieved for myself and my life. I haven't done that in a long, long time. The (4) cats were frightened. Pure grief and emotional exhaustion. I thought of the inherent worthlessness of my life. The defeat. With all the sharing and honesty, our words never really touch the agony. Our children are supposed to thrive. They are our legacy. They are the pearls of our lives. What we have all gone through is Hell.
Oh Copa. Your pain is raw, real. Pain and grief sought you out today. They needed for whatever reason to be acknowledged. You acknowledged them so bravely, so genuinely. You sat with pain and grief. And gave them space. I hope they decide to move on. i pray you feel better soon and that peace pays you a visit , a long visit. Your posts and advice have been a godsend for me and many others through the years. You have strength beyond compare. And while the light sometimes dims in your life, know that you are a torch for many of us here. Hugs!
 

Beta

Well-Known Member
You have faced many, many excruciating challenges in dealing with your son. You have gone to the depths and beyond to try to help him. You have used your plight and been honest about your ordeal, your challenges, your rising above the rabbit hole, to help others here on CD draw from your strength and your ability to share the most intimate, vulnerable moments you have experienced.
Yes.
 

Beta

Well-Known Member
Im so glad you feel better Copa. I spent a day and a half flying over the ocean and the continent to go straight from the airport and be with my mom as she crossed over to the next journey. Things happen as they do, and though my mom could no longer speak, we found ways to connect before she took her last breath. It was the hardest thing to do, but I am thankful to have been there in her final hours. She was such a dear sweet soul and I will miss our chats on the phone and fall visits. She is no longer suffering and has flown with angels to be with my dad. She will always be with me. Rest in peace mom.
I'm glad you could be there with her, New Leaf, for both your sakes. May you have God's comfort and peace right now.
 

LetGo

Active Member
Hi Beta and everyone,
My apologies….again and again, for not posting sooner, I have been busy trying to catch up with my jungle garden, spending time with family, and actually putting my artist hoard to use, back to painting.
I don’t see Tornado and Rain very often, and when I do it is…..distressing, disturbing, and makes me sad. The feelings cascade through me, but I can’t allow myself to despair over their lifestyles, as I have no control over their choices and going to the edge of the rabbit hole is a terrible ordeal. Looking back at these long years since they have fallen into addiction and the consequences there of, there is this distinct pattern of them disappearing into their using, then reappearing with some sort of calamity, health and abusive boyfriend issues for Rain, and Tornado, in and out of jail, rehab. My participation in that patterning is slowly dwindling, I still go through a process when I see them, but not as devastating as in years past. Am I calloused? I think a bit, one has to develop some sort of thick skin in order to survive. Rain is still living under a bridge, Tornado is someplace in hiding as she has a bench warrant. She says she is in a house with her ex boyfriend’s family, who knows? It’s been a long stretch of time and misery for the family, so at one point, it becomes a macabre routine, a continuous loop of sorts. The only way to survive is to find pathways to pull out of the loop, stop knee jerk reacting and learn and relearn responses to maintain sanity. Not an easy task. I find giving them to God over and again has helped me tremendously, but do have to work at avoiding the slippery slope of regressing into overwhelming circular thinking and feeling. Beta you mentioned how difficult it is to be far away from your wayward son, but also how hard it is for those of us who have had to see the twists and turns of addiction and homelessness up close. I think both are equally difficult. These are our beloveds, no matter where they are, it is a heart wrench to know the degradation of their choices.

Glad to “see” you Dad, focusing on the good things and prayer helps me too.

Hi Nomad, oh my gosh, you have been through so much with your daughter. God bless and keep you and your husband.

Im glad for her, ksm. I hope that she continues.

I am amazed at your strength in caregiving for your great grandson. He has love and stability with you and your husband. Tornado is much like your granddaughter. She is in a disconnect with her children, and now 4 grandchildren, through her eldest son. But, she wants to know they are “there” for her.

I’m so sorry for your loss, k. May God carry you through this difficult time.

Wow. Oh my.

Prayers going up for your health Nandina.

How I know those feelings Letgo.

It is a hard road to travel, Beta, but you are so worth the effort to live your best life, despite what your sons choices are.

This. Tornado used to talk of “unconditional” love and I know I’ve written of it many times. Her definition of that is that her family should be there for her, no matter what she does. She has completely bypassed the hurt she has inflicted with her choices. No apologies, just pops in and out.

I think I have gone through (and still go through) a myriad of levels, emotions and posts trying to reckon circumstances with my two. I know what they are capable of, and am on edge when they are in my home. I don’t trust them, not one bit. Is it that they are “bad”? Well, yah. Who the heck just comes with so many expectations, but no remorse, no natural affection, the list goes on. I have to see them for what they are, what their choices have been, how far they have stooped in my home.

I see you Nomad. It is like some sort of awful game.

This seems to be my two as well. When they were very young, loving decent little humans. Looking back, the changes I saw were around puberty. They have become unrecognizable through these years. My well daughters often say that they are not “them” anymore. They are in the same shell, but not the same sisters they remember. They give me the grace of going through the process I need to when I have had contact, but they are more stoic. Tornado and Rain are not who I knew them to be. They are too busy chasing dragons. We are just potential victims of their manipulation.
I do have hope, but the years, the history of encounters and repetitive same old same old have taken its toll. How does one balance faith and hope with the harsh, in your face reality and ugly truth of what our beloveds have become?
I am traveling northeast in two weeks, my Moms health is fading and my sister does not think she will be here for my usual fall journey. I can’t tell my two that I am going to visit their grandmother. I worry that they will take advantage of my absence. I suppose, Copa, that is a sort of labeling them “bad”. It is also a cognizance of what has happened in the past and what they are capable of. How sad to have to set such boundaries with one’s own adult children. To recognize and understand that they have lost so much of what is good and decent, to be able to see me as an opportunity, more so than see me as their mother. I believe it is coupled with their own self degradation, their own demise into their addiction and lack of boundaries and self care. If they do not have self love, self respect, how can they love or respect others? When Rain had her health scare in January, I had her come to my home, I think I posted of it. Her boyfriend, Mumbles showed up and I felt entrapped and scared. I do believe she called him, and when I texted my well children they came on the fly to talk with her about it. She was confrontational and spouting about us living in our “comfort boxes” whilst she and others like her struggle on the streets. She defended her abusive boyfriend saying how “he is the only one that shows up for me.” Etc. How we can just “go to the ATM and get money, while they have to struggle to survive. It’s all turned around in her head. We are the “normies” and they are the outcasts. We are despised for what we have, but at the same time, a convenient place to pop up for a shower, a change of clothes. Sigh.
Tornado recently posted on Instagram “The world is better off without me.” I called her and asked her “What is going on?” She laughed and said she’s okay, that she is too self absorbed to do anything drastic, that she just wanted to see who would respond. Who the heck does that? Tornado, Tornado does that and it’s a pretty twisted thing to do.
Got to keep building that toolbox and keep the armor shined up.
God help us all.
Much love to you dear friends. Keep up the good fight. It is not an easy battle, that’s for sure.
We are worth every effort to uphold and maintain our dignity, peace and joy.
Nui ke Aloha,
New Leaf
I am sorry about your Mom's health. You are right to not involve Tornado and Rain. This is about you and your Mom. You deserve to have this time with her. I am glad to hear that you are getting your art supplies out...I find it very helpful and calming. Hugs
 

LetGo

Active Member
My son did this a few weeks ago. In a way it was good for me. It turns out he called and told me his friend Kent had died. Kent is this "great guy," upstanding guy who only sells weed. "Such a great, great guy. Clean."
Me: "Oh, I'm sorry, Joseph. How did he die?"
"Meth. It was the woman he got involved with. It should have been me."
Me: "Nooo." (An immediate and involuntary gasp of agony.) And I hang up the phone. I have nothing more to hear from him or to say.

You see, my son for 12, 15 years has despised Meth, what it does to people, and how the people become who are users. He has expressed contempt and superiority (???) What hypocrisy. He protects the memory of Kent, who violated his own espoused beliefs and turns the aggression onto me. I am just sick of it. I am nobody's whipping boy. And that is what I have become. All of these years trying to help him change. And then later, how unbearable it was for me to let go. For what?

It gets to the point where the truth is more bearable than self-deception. The truth is my son hurts me and uses me. He is self-indulgent and lazy. The way he lives bears no relation to the way we lived together. The person he is is nothing like I am. He is so little the person I lived with and raised. I have as much In common with him as I do with any other street person. The time for taking responsibility on my part is long past.

I just don't know what to say. But here I am at this point.

M told my son, "I feel sure your Mom will let you stay in the apartment if you go to a treatment program for 3 months."

M is wrong. I thought about it. Maybe if he were to go to a residential treatment program (he won't) and gets psychiatric help (he won't) and then goes into a intensive one year sober living program (he won't) with intensive case management afterwards (he won't) I might have a conversation. But that part of me that wants to be in a relationship with him of any sort, is atrophied. It's gone.
I want to live for myself.

I seem to have turned a corner. I am not sounding like the person all of you know. I don't know why.

I'm glad you posted New Leaf. I pray for your mother and your family. Be well. Love, Copa
Copa, It does sound like you've turned a corner. "The truth is more bearable than self-deception. Oh I so hear and feel this. You are the same person that you have been, Copa. You have just reached a point within and for yourself. I'm sorry it is so hard for us to get to this point, and even still to maintain it. Hugs, LetGo
 

LetGo

Active Member
Oh Copa, the floodgates of it all have opened. I’m so very sorry for the pain of it. The grief. I have always thought that grieving over our living beloveds choices is much more difficult than the grief death brings. There is a finality in death. Though we do grieve forever having lost a loved one, it lessens a bit with time. Our wayward adult children are another more complicated grief journey. The timing with my twos appearances or calamities seems to coincide with the rise and fall of my own emotional status. Just when I think I have somewhat healed- boom, there they are. Your life, our lives are not worthless because of the paths our adult children choose. You are a good loving caring person and mother. You have contributed much in working in prisons and guiding those who have made mistakes to reclaim their lives. There is way, way more to your life story, than this hard battle you have fought to try to help your son, then realizing the truth that it is up to HIM. It is agony to see our “pearls” slide down this slippery, degraded slope of horrible choices and consequences. A nightmare. Looping.
Your life has not been worthless.
Where there is life, there is hope.
There is always a chance for our adult children to find their light.
As we grieve, we also have the hard task to try to strive to live our best lives, to set boundaries on how we are treated, to stop being “whipping” boys and draw those lines towards reclaiming our own lives apart from what our adult children do. To let God and let go of the chains we built that bind us to the actions of our adult children.
To honor and recognize our own devastation and process the grief, but also to set boundaries on our propensity to go to self degrading thoughts. No, dear Copa, your life has not been worthless. You have faced many, many excruciating challenges in dealing with your son. You have gone to the depths and beyond to try to help him. You have used your plight and been honest about your ordeal, your challenges, your rising above the rabbit hole, to help others here on CD draw from your strength and your ability to share the most intimate, vulnerable moments you have experienced.
Please take time to rest and recover. Do something that brings you peace. You are worth the effort you are striving for to reclaim your life. That’s the work we all have to do. To rise above the grief and agony, and live.
Hugs and much love to you
Leaf
Very, very well said New Leaf. I completely agree. Copa, you have been a huge help to others, me included.
 

Cora

New Member
Hi everyone, even though I've made very few posts here I still come back to see how y'all are doing. I completely understand the "want to know, no don't tell me" cycle. I make no effort to make the first contact with either son anymore.
Hope y'all have your personal peace.
 
Im so glad you feel better Copa. I spent a day and a half flying over the ocean and the continent to go straight from the airport and be with my mom as she crossed over to the next journey. Things happen as they do, and though my mom could no longer speak, we found ways to connect before she took her last breath. It was the hardest thing to do, but I am thankful to have been there in her final hours. She was such a dear sweet soul and I will miss our chats on the phone and fall visits. She is no longer suffering and has flown with angels to be with my dad. She will always be with me. Rest in peace mom.
So very sorry for your loss.....
 


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