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Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by lost 17, Sep 25, 2019.

  1. lost 17

    lost 17 New Member

    I have a 17 yo male defitit . This is an example of 1 week. He has a car in my name. Car was 5000 we paid 3000 towards it. We were proud that he saved money. Things weren't going ok since April. But then the other week he can home with a pick up a friend fathers car because he was getting his brakes fixed . I did not like but just didn't get into it with him . Then this went on for almost 3 weeks. As time went on, clearly stated I want the car at the house because I am the one responsible for it ... 3 days i told him texted the ar needed to be in the drive or I report it stolen . In the text he was verbally abusive to me and disrespectful . That night he can home around 11: 00 pm I was in bed and thought I could turn a blind eye or go check to see if the car was in the driveway it wasn't .... So I went to the room asked wear it was he said something... I saw his phone which I pay for and brought as a gift with my mother in law and took it .... he then manhandled be was aggressive verbally abusive.... said I was a bad mother ... I was a pit stop .... had no respect for me and my husband (his Dad) kick my door my husband and him got in a fight .... finally next dad]y car at house .....I did not speak to him for 2 days ....that night he was in a car accident ... totaled his car ... he is fine no one injured ... he called me sorry for everything he ever did we were supportive .... help him get stuff from car her paid to have it junked.... we are paying for a lawyer .... tickets 6 point might loose licence ....well now 2 weeks later same crap .... now we need to give him rides makes us wait 10 mins after we worked all day for him to come out of friends house .... the other day I picked him up ... it was my 12 day working in a row ... I have a full time job part time job and in college taking 3 classes .... I was tried made a wrong turn he was verbally abusive putting me down I asked him to get out of the car he did not finely got home .... acted like nothing happened and said he would like to take a friend to a play we were talking about going to early in the week .... I said nothing to him then and nothing since .....Does anybody else have this behavior ? How do I handle this ? He does basically what ever he want to a point .
     
  2. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Welcome. I am sorry. This is indeed serious. And part of the problem is his age. If you live in the USA, this means, when he turns 18 you will have no control whatsoever, legally. But at 17 you are still responsible for him and to a large extent for his behavior.

    You say he pretty much does whatever he wants. This is a huge part of the problem as I see it. It's awfully hard to get the genie back in the bottle, but you have to try anyway.

    This is what I think I would do. I would cut back on any privileges. If you give him spending money, pull way back, or stop it. You can STOP picking him up and giving him rides. Why would you do that if he disrespects you, insults you and keeps you waiting? I might consider giving him access to the house unless you are present. Get one of those front door locks with a code. You can program them.

    You are only legally required to house him, to feed him and to not mistreat him. He is not entitled to his own room, to a door on his room, or even to an allowance.

    He will also require way more supervision. If you work, you may need to find a way to have him supervised after school. Has he been going to school?

    As far as physical violence towards you, like this:
    I would call the police and make a police report. Every.single.time I would call the police. If my son was verbally aggressive, I called the police, too. I thought I was ahead of the game if he had to speak to the officer.
    I would try to prevail on husband to not engage. Rather, I would call the police.
    Is he using drugs and/or drinking? His defensiveness is ringing alarm bells for me. What else is going on? I would insist upon a drug test. From a medical laboratory. I would NOT give him advance notice. One type you can order yourselves (the pee one). The hair test which reveals drug use for the past 30 to 60 days needs to be ordered by a physician. I think there is a good chance he's using drugs.
    This is outrageous. I'm sorry.

    Your task as I see it is to empower yourselves and to disempower him. He feels and acts as if he is the power player in the family and in the household. This is what has to change. He may not accept this. He may fight you. Then you will have to make a new set of decisions. Do you escalate or do you make another plan?

    If he's using drugs, the course is clear: Drug Treatment.

    Of course this may be way more complicated than I lay out. But you have to start somewhere. As you try to get control, more information will come out. As I see it you have to take control and you have to stop his abuse of you.

    I am very sorry this is happening. Take care.
     
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    Last edited: Sep 27, 2019
  3. lost 17

    lost 17 New Member

    I have been dealing with this 14 yo yes ... I drug tested him ... positive for marijuana ... never anything else ... taken him for therapy on and off x 5 years .... the accident was an accident .... no drug no alcohol ... careless driving yes.... I do give him very little money .... he was cleared from an outpatient clinic ... the drug use not bad enough .... his behavior its not that bad .... if we turn a blind eye to no coming home till late not texting were he is ... The truth is we try had not to engage but hard at time .... i want to turn off his phone but I don't have a house phone anymore ... so that concerns me ... basically I am trying to get the courage to turn it off ... as far a ticket I will not pay for them and we at this point won't help buy new car ... he started vocational school ... I want him to have a career ... don't want to push him to far ... I know he is feeling now driving we are not letting him use are cars for now
     
  4. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Good to deny him use of car. You can get a house phone with local service for $29 a month plus taxes, or at least it was this about a year ago. I did it. That would be with ATT. Tmobile also has a type of house phone for way cheap. Like $10 a month. Or at least they did a year ago. If I have time I will look for it.
    I have been posting on this forum four and a half years. I will just tell you what I think.

    Lots of times a parent will tolerate bad behavior of a child with the justification that the child is in college. Like drug use, for example. I feel this is always a bad idea. To put the child's life at risk in order that they be in college. To me, this is a misplaced priority. Your child uses only marijuana. To me, that's bad enough. But of course it's better than hard drugs. So. For now let's put that aside. The thing that really concerns me is his disrespect and abuse of you and his Dad. This is not the first time a parent has posted in your situation.

    This is only my opinion, but why would you continue to support his progress in life, if he is behaving in such an unacceptable way towards you? It's not that he deserves to be punished or that your support be withheld. It's that this behavior is so completely unacceptable, not to mention potentially criminal. If he's manhandling you and/or his Dad. I don't understand how this does not flash RED ALERT.

    I believe that being a good person, acting within socially acceptable bounds, showing respect and self-respect are a million times more important than completing a vocational program. He has plenty of time to do that. But getting a grip on this really, really troublesome behavior--to me, this is the priority.

    You are valuable and deserve care and respect. Your home, serenity and security there, is important. Who is this person, your son, who can violate that, and you would accept that?

    I am not judging you. I am trying to support you to STOP him. He should not be doing this. To you or anybody.

    PS
    T-MobileĀ® Line Link phone adapter


    This of course is one strategy, turning a blind eye.Trying to not engage with him. If he only aggresses when you confront him, one way to approach him would be to not engage. It sounds like confrontation is a trigger to him. He is close enough to 18 where you could try to just ride this out.


    If you feel you have ruled out any danger to himself and to others, I guess you could do it this way. Just avoid "seeing" what he's doing. And hoping that he has the self-control and judgment to avoid getting into trouble; while keeping cars from him and supervising him more, and giving him a shorter leash until he is emancipated at 18.

    If you feel confident that he is okay, you could do this, I guess, hoping that if you stay out of his lane, out of the way he will not aggress against you, physically or verbally. It's really up to you.
     
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    Last edited: Sep 25, 2019
  5. ksm

    ksm Well-Known Member

    We have a house phone through Basic Talk which we bought at Walmart. It runs off our house wifi. The plug in part was pretty cheap. And it cost me about 15 a month.

    The other thing you can do is change his phone to a talk and text plan only. He can use it on wifi when that's available.

    If he gets physically abusive, call the police. Did you ever find out where the car was all that time, before he crashed it?

    Is he still working? If there is no public transportation in your town, I would only agree to drive him to school and work. Not visiting friends. Then he would have to do chores to earn a ride.

    Good luck.
     
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  6. RN0441

    RN0441 100% better than I was but not at 100% yet

    Welcome

    I agree with the others. And want to add that you immediately need to set some firm boundaries with your son.

    You should NOT be afraid to get him mad. We were. Look at my signature to see where that got us - and him. I'm not saying it would have changed anything - and all is well now - SEVEN long years of hell and worry later. I don't want anyone else that I know or don't know to endure that if there is any way possible.

    I agree. Call the police. Don't let HIM run the show!! He is not in charge of your home. Who pays the mortgage? I'm beyond sure it is not your son.

    You and hubby need to be on the same page with handling his behavior.

    I am glad your son is not using any other drugs that you know of but his behavior does sound rather questionable. Was he always like this? Has he changed?

    Do you have any other children in your home?

    I would not be okay with the car story. There is something there that smells very fishy. Something is going on....
     
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  7. WiseChoices

    WiseChoices Active Member

    I agree with what has been said . Take back control of your house. Ignore his attacks that you are a bad mother etc - it's a ploy to activate your guilt which will not help you to feel empowered. He is 17 - he doesn't know what a good parent is, yet.

    Stop the money. Don't pay for anything and let him work for everything that is important to him .He wants a phone? Get a job .He wants a new car? Get a job . You helped him to get the car he wrecked, now another car has to be totally on him.

    I agree to stop giving him rides except to school and work IF public transportation is not available.

    Copa, you made the most excellent point about college. I wish I would have known that /followed that when our son started college and started smoking pot. We should have pulled the plug asap. I had a bad therapist at the time who made it sound like pot was not a big deal. That "they all do that". Bad advise! Son spiraled into using other drugs (as I knew he would from my own experience) and we hung in there with him because we wanted him to get that degree. He kept up good grades , so we persisted .In retrospect big mistake. A better approach is a consequence to the behavior. I wish we would have pulled the car (which is now junked) , and pulled him from school until he felt ready to focus on school instead of partying. He has a degree but no self esteem to go with it.

    Lost17, it is very important that your son experiences the consequences of his actions. Do not "help" him . It is enabling the bad behavior. The more consequences he experiences, the more he will learn .As long as there is a payoff to his behavior, it will persist.
     
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  8. JayPee

    JayPee Sending good vibes...

    Welcome Lost 17.

    I feel like you are sliding down a slippery slope. It is so easy to want to stick our heads in the sand and not really know what's going on but I feel you will have more troubles going forward if you don't get to the bottom of some things. From experience it is only going to get worst.

    If at all possible start to set some boundaries and stick to them. I agree with others that I'm not buying the story of the accident and I'm hoping that there aren't other issues like alcohol involved.

    I think for parents it's the most difficult thing to let out children experience the consequences of their own actions. We never did..well, we did call police (so many times I can't count) but then we were the ones bailing him out and going to court, paying fines, bringing son to anger management classes we had to pay for and he didn't want to go to and then trying to have it all annulled after so they had a clean record and a fresh start. Talk about messed up.

    It is probably more difficult for the parent initially to set boundaries and allow consequences to their actions than it is to our children to endure them.

    But if you don't do this you are just putting off having to do it at a later time when likely everything is on a larger scale.
     
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  9. ChickPea

    ChickPea Active Member

    Oh goodness, hon. Yes, you are in a pickle as he is 17 and is not yet an adult, so you are legally responsible for him. Sounds like he's putting you through the ringer, too. I agree with everyone else about establishing boundaries. Better to start now and hope they sink in early. Doesn't mean it will cure HIM but it will help YOU.
     
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  10. BusynMember

    BusynMember Well-Known Member

    I can not emphasis at what a good point Copa made about college. Sometimes we think college is more important than getting their lives together, not being an alcoholic, not using drugs, being kind, etc.

    We give our college kids a pass maybe because they are fulfilling a big dream that we have for them. We delude ourselves that college will guarantee our troubled kids a leg up in life, even when they can not do even simple things as in living sober or working at McDonalds or speaking in a civil way to people who love them.

    College won't help our kids who have no other skills. And plenty of kids without college support themselves just fine. I really don't feel we should give a pass to an adult child just because he or she is "in college", working at Pizza Hut or better or just doing better than before (but still with no attitude change).

    We made excuses for our daughter for far too long and the outcome was horrible.We need to stop this. I know it's hard. I say this is every post because it is. We grasp at anything. What we need to do is allow them to grow up. Or not. We need to allow consequences.

    We need to do better for us. This may be the hardest of all things to do.

    Thanks to Copa once again.

    God bless everyone.
     
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  11. BusynMember

    BusynMember Well-Known Member

    by the way, pot is a big deal for anyone who constantly smokes it. My therapist is licensed in addiction and has told me a lot about the dangers of pot. It may not kill you but it messes with your brain, motivation, brain cells and can trigger mental illness then make the mental illness worse. I believe pot is a lot like alcohol. Some people can take a few drinks socially. Some become alcoholics. Some can smoke pot once in a while. Some need it all the time. And that is where the danger lies.
     
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  12. WiseChoices

    WiseChoices Active Member

    I agree 100% !
     
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  13. JayPee

    JayPee Sending good vibes...

    Busy I agree with this 100% as well. My younger son always had anxiety issues but not until after he was medically discharged from the Marine Corp. did he begin smoking pot like it was his job. I honestly, don't know if you all can really believe me when I say he smoked every 15 min. around the clock. We would hear him through the night getting up and going down into the basement. There's also the "spice" (synthetic) MJ that from what I understand is a crap shoot as to what's really in it that he smoked too. If you wondering where he might have gotten the $ to smoke that much it's because he was selling it too. I had put my head in the sand as well and didn't see that for quite some time. Once I knew, I put a stop to it at least from my premises!

    My point is he was never motivated after that and the mental issues he has, I truly believe play a huge part in it.
     
  14. RN0441

    RN0441 100% better than I was but not at 100% yet

    Two things I'd like to comment on:

    I think we/parents push college initially or do not want anything to stop them from what we think they should be doing as a normal young adult. If THAT changes, then we have to face the fact that something is WRONG. We do not want to face that. We keep hoping each little thing is just a bump in the road and it will straighten itself out. That is what we did. Many kids DO straighten out after a few mishaps. Our son did NOT however. We did all that too JayPee (police, paid fines, ran around in circles trying to get back to "start"). Did no good. None of it. It was for us.

    Marijuana - I smoked my brains out while in high school but I did what I needed to do. Me and my friends all had little jobs. We went to school. We did what was expected of us. Now I actually hate it. It was a gateway drug for our son. I never believed that "gateway" stuff until it happened to our son. It never happened to me so.....

    He still thinks it's wonderful and he's now 24. He cannot smoke anymore now due to welding school and then being an actual welder. I'm glad but it worries me too.

    He said it helps him. I said kick the crutch!!

    He drinks lite beer and I don't even like that but as long as he does what he needs to do I have accepted it. I have had to let go and let him make his own decisions. He is making much better decisions now overall and that is good. I cannot have it all now can I?
     
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  15. BusynMember

    BusynMember Well-Known Member

    RN, I am guessing you eventually quit the MJ. My daughter is high 24/7 for twenty years. It was not always just pot and we don't know if it is just pot or more at this time.

    Since there are functional addicts, I would have an issue with Kay even if she quit pot and drank. She would not be able to control it. She doesn't drink every day, but she drinks to get drunk. In high school she did hard drugs. Seems she always has to be fogged from reality to cope. This breaks my heart.

    I prefer my kids to be sober or recreational drinkers only. Two of my kids are like that. Then there is Kay who can't do anything addictive in a normal way, including any sort of alcohol. Beer included.

    But of course there is nothing we can do. We do have to accept what we can not change. At this point in time, we would rather not know. What would be the point? We would worry for nothing.
     
  16. ChickPea

    ChickPea Active Member

    Completely agree with this.
    I have seen how it negatively affects my daughter. Good point.
     
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  17. WiseChoices

    WiseChoices Active Member

    Same with my son .It made all his symptoms worse .