Hi I'm new

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by goingcrazyinwv, Mar 26, 2008.

  1. goingcrazyinwv

    goingcrazyinwv New Member

    Hi my name is Helen and my daughter daija (almost 10) was just diagnosed with adhd and odd. I am really happy that we finally know what is going on and we do have the adhd under control with medications (adderal 5mg) but the odd is anouther story. our lives our so out of control if you walked into my house you would think we were nuts my house looks like a tornado went throu it I just can't get a thing done and the chaos is just outrageous it is almost constant yelling and screaming. she hates her brother but really gives no explanation I ask her and she says I hate boys well ok your 9 your allowed to hate boys right now but she doesnt treat other boys the way she treats him she hits him and picks at him all the time tells him she hates him to go away and don't come back she has hit him with a playstation and choked him. she is constantly arguing with us yelling at us she pretty much runs our lives and tells us what to do and if we ask her to do something we are mean and we hate her. I have tried everything under the sun but nothing works she doesnt care about consequences at all. she does pick at her little sister but not a lot she is only three and she seems to like being around her and playing with her unless she crys that gets on her nerves really bad. In school she doesnt get in trouble much for her behavior she has got quite a few behavior notes sent home but it's not everyday. she isn't doing her work thou and they are seriously considering holding her back. I actually have a metting about that friday. But we really can't take her anywhere else not to stores or to visit people. also she has no social skills and will whine like a 2yr old for no reason sometimes I will catch her talking in a whiny toddler like voice. Her teacher said in school if she sees anouther teacher or the principal she will run up and hug them and won't let go. anouther thing that concerns me is she will scream out for no reason then go right back to what she is doing like it never even happened. She also spends a great deal of time in her room she only wants to come out to use the bathroom or get a drink she doesnt want anyone in there and just wants to play alone.I just don't know how much more I can take it is making me nuts. any advice?

  2. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    Hi, Helen. Welcome to the site. When you can, do a sig for yourself so it can appear at the foot of your posts, so we can always understand your own family situation (the one that brought you here). It saves explaining it all to us over again.

    I'm glad you have the ADHD under control, but it does sound like there is more going on, possibly even more than the ODD.

    Here is the suggestion that gets made to just about every new member - get hold of "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene. It's not a cure, by any means, but it IS a different way of looking at these kids and handling them more effectively. For an advance preview, you will find some discussion about this book on the Early Childhood forum. The techniques in that book can also be used on PCs, so it shouldn't be making any more work for you. In fact, it should make things a bit easier for you.

    A lot of girls go through the "I hate boys" stage, it's almost a fashion. I would be looking to her peer group to see where this is coming from. It shouldn't involve members of the family, though. We went through a similar stage with easy child when she was 9 or 10, because she was ganging up with friends to bully her little sister, easy child 2/difficult child 2. We finally took her aside and said that while you might fight with your sister at home, while outside the home you should always support your siblings and stick up for them. Family loyalty is most important - how would you feel if your parents publicly bullied you, in front of their adult friends? Or publicly put you down, called you a crybaby to the local grocer or shoe salesman, told everyone how they hated you because you're ugly and a pain in the neck. Brothers have feelings too, and they do come in very handy when they're older. Besides, with "I hate boys" - a good answer should be, "Brothers don't count," or "That shouldn't apply to brothers."

    You can always use the line from "The Nanny" - "Don't be mean to your sister. One day your father is going to be old and sick - you're going to want him to live with her."

    I do wonder if there is a lot of peer pressure happening in other areas - not easy if her social skills are poor, she is in a vulnerable position and could easily be taken advantage of by unscrupulous 'friends'.

    Does she have a therapist of any sort? She sounds like she's just not coping, and needs some outside help in getting a better understanding of herself. It also can help with social skills.

    With discipline, if something isn't working, don't use it. Also, don't try to control too much at a time - choose a handful of issues only, work with those and let the rest wait for a while. Try to use encouragement and praise where you can, rather than criticising her afterwards. Working with her on things can help, giving her choices can help. For example, I give difficult child 3 a choice - "We have two jobs that need to be done now. The birds need to be fed and the vegetables need to be peeled. I will do one if you do the other. Which job will you do? When the jobs are both done, we can play a game."
    If he responds by refusing to do either job, then I will have to do both which will take me twice as long, so we won't have time for a game. Natural consequences, rather than punishment, because he can easily see why he's missing out on the game.
    As a result, difficult child 3 is happier to do chores under these conditions, because he doesn't feel like he's being singled out and made to work like a slave. It also makes him more willing to help out at other times because he has learnt that I do a lot to help him and I am openly thankful when he chooses to help me.

    Sometimes he's hungry and I am busy. I might say, "difficult child 3, I will get you some nachos when I've finished this job, but I won't finish for at least another half hour. Why don't you get nachos for yourself? You can come and ask me what to do next if you need it, I'm just a bit tied down at the moment."

    Again, I gave him choice. He is a bit nervous about using the oven griller which is why he prefers me to do it, but depending on how hungry he is, he will sometimes go ahead and do it himself (often grumbling - I ignore that). When he does it, I often say, "That was a good thing you did. You did it well, too, I am proud of you learning to cook for yourself like that. And that way, you got to eat much sooner than if you had waited for me."

    We've had far fewer rages this way. it's till far from perfect, but he can see how it works now. Most of the time when he rages, he is reacting out of fear or frustration. Again, I tend to ignore any apparent rudeness if I feel it's coming from fear or frustration, but once he is calm I will gently correct him.

    Another example - such a small thing. He was opening his mail and it was schoolwork corrected and returned by his teacher (he's a correspondence student). They ALWAYS seem to use stickytape to hold the pages together, which really annoys him. He said to me, "Get the scissors for me."
    I got the scissors but gently reminded him, "You should say, 'PLEASE get the scissors,' you need to remember your manners."
    He immediately mumbled, "Please get the scissors," and "Thanks" as I handed them over. He wasn't meaning to be rude, it's just that his need was very immediate and he just didn't think. If I had reacted with any anger, it would have escalated him to tantrum level and he would have learned nothing - in fact, he would have felt righteously indignant and we all would have been upset for nothing.

    What we do - he's still learning appropriate behaviour because I model it for him. He learns "Do as I do". But by helping him keep calm, I'm also getting more effective learning from him as well.

    Back in mainstream he was often getting upset at school - either by other kids in the playground, or a teacher who might be more authoritarian than most, ruling by fear or iron control. That sort of control does not work well for difficult children, they hate feeling subjugated for its own sake. I still burn inside when I remember teachers from my childhood who frankly, bullied their students to get what they wanted. I remember with fondness those who taught with love and compassion. I also remember the subject matter from them much better.

    Multiply that by ten or more, and that could be how your daughter is feeling at school and maybe life in general. It's not easy - in fact, sometimes it seems insurmountable.

    Your daughter should be entitled to some level of support in the classroom, depending on her needs. I can only speak for the Aussie system but in this, it's similar to the US model.

    Anyway, welcome, you will find support and help here.

  3. smallworld

    smallworld Moderator

    Helen, welcome! I'm glad you found us.

    We're not doctors and can't diagnosis over the internet, but my mom gut tells me there's more going on here than ADHD/ODD. Sorry for all the questions, but your answers will help us point you in the right direction:
    What kind of doctor diagnosed Daija? What kind of doctor is treating her?
    When she does her schoolwork, does she get it? Does she have any friends at school?
    Does she have an IEP?
    Any speech or developmental delays?
    Any sensory issues (for example, sensitivity to clothing tags, loud noises, food textures)?
    Any mental health issues or substance abuse in the family tree?

    I agree with getting a copy of The Explosive Child by Ross Greene. It has helped many of us parent our extra-challenging children.

    Again, welcome.
  4. goingcrazyinwv

    goingcrazyinwv New Member

    just wanted to answer your questions.

    she was diagnosed by a psychiatrist and is seeing that dr. she does seem to get her homework she is really smart and has made honor roll in the past she just doesnt want to do it she is more into want she wants to do which is mostly sit in her room and watch tv or draw pictures. she does have a few friends but not many and usually after they have her over once she doesnt get invited back. she doesnt have an iep yet but I am working on that. I am still trying to get her teacher to listen to me I really don't like her teacher much she is always right and she just blows anything I say off. no speech or developmental delays. no sensory issues. yes there is substance abuse and mental health issues in the family 2 of my uncles are alcoholics and smoke pot. 2 aunts have bipolar. my youngest sister has depression. my middle sister is in rehab for crack it was court ordered. on husband's side his grandfather and uncle both killed their self. he has cousins with adhd,bipolar, and depression, his mom has gerstmann syndrome a form of demintia.

    and she is currently not in therapy but we are working on that I am just waiting on a phone call for an appointment.

  5. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member Staff Member

    She sounds very much like my daughter and if she truly has ODD it will get worse before it gets better. Although she may not behaving badly in school yet, when she gets to high school she may get detentions frequently. Watch for drug and alcohol use in the adolescent years also.

    I don't know what makes soem kids like this. We've searched for years to find a reason and don't believe it when someone tells you if you find the real disorder you can fix it with the right medications. ODD is not cured. The best we can do is provide our difficult child with as much structure and discipline and love possible until her brain takes over and she decides her life has become unmanageable.

    I have found it very important to keep her in as many constructive activities as possible and also to monitor her friends very carefully. That will become extremely important in the future years when she will be attracted to risky people and behaviors.

  6. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Hi there.
    I would get another opinion. To me it sounds like more than ADHD/ODD and since there are no blood tests for our children, there are lots of room for misdiagnosis. Her family history indicates that she needs to be watched, especially for bipolar. If she is inclined towards that, she would have a huge ODD component (it's part of bipolar) and stimulants would NOT help her behavior. In fact, it could make it worse. I always found it helpful to get second and even third opinions. You may want to try a neuropsychologist.
    Welcome to the board.