I could talk for days, new to board.

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Dixies_fire, Apr 6, 2013.

  1. Dixies_fire

    Dixies_fire Member

    Okay SO I joined because my daughter is.... something. she's 8. She has something akin to a eating disorder that we've been dealing with since she was 8. she's 50lbs and is 8 years old and this is a vast improvement a year ago she was 36lbs. So this is actually improving... I have long thought she could benefit from counseling but she doesn't really fit anything besides ODD which only comes out at certain times... I have tried to get the doctor to talk to her or refer counseling but they prescribed her a prescription that we tried for a brief time and I took her off of it. It was for ADHD, which I don't think is completely accurate and I wanted someone to talk to her an evaluate the behavior we have seen and tell me what they thought and her doctor did not want to do that. TK is a good student she's in an advanced reading class and reads on a higher level than kids in her class, direct quote from teacher, academically other kids are not really on her level. She doesn't make friends easily and when she does they tend to be bossy females like her and her feelings get hurt cause she very badly wants to be the leader. She just seems less aware of the world than I recall being at her age, her behavior is closer to a 5 or 6 year old than a 8 year old. She is not a bad kid, she's a big help when she wants to be, but she is defiant. She will get caught doing the same things over and over again and it makes little to no difference. She doesn't respond well to discipline, about the best we can do is a time out. She gets angry at me and takes it out on the dog or her little brother. She has tried to shake her little brother who was 2 at the time over a cookie and when confronted could only say "he ate my cookie" as a reason for trying to kill him. We made her watch a video on shaken baby syndrome and write an essay and stay in her room. A few weeks ago she chased her little brother around the house with a pair of scissors. One day she was mad at me for getting on to her about her room being messy her brother picked up a towel out of her room and she tackled him to the ground and climbed on top of him in front of me, I don't know what she was going to do because I hauled her off of him by the back of her pants. I put her on the ground and asked her why she was trying to hurt him for no reason, she couldn't really answer why. I asked her why she attacked him or our dog when she was mad at me, she couldn't really answer. I worked out a deal with her bio dad and she was going to go stay with him, separating her and her 3 year old brother since that seems to be the only one she has a problem with. her dad and I have been divorced for 3 years and she worships the ground he walks on. I thought maybe it would make her happier as she had less children to contend with for attention, but his girlfriend is pregnant and they already have another child which is pretty much the same situation she is in here. I don't think that would benefit her really. She does have some attention issues but not really enough to cause her much difficulty in school. I don't think she is on the autism spectrum because she communicates all the time... I really don't see much wrong with her besides the possible ODD. My ex baby sitter/friend who spent much much time with her was a former mental health specialist in the army and she and I have discussed TK often she says that she thinks she should be in counseling too. I don't disagree but military health care is bs, they think I want to medicate her and not figure out the problem they just don't take it seriously... I have a lot of other things going on right now with my husband and his issues/surgery that are making life a total nightmare and I desperately need support, thoughts, a mental outlet for all the mess I am dealing with right now... For the record our fam is as follows. TK 8, boyo 3, Mr Lewis 5 months. hubs,32 who was diagnosed schitzophrenic tendencies and ptsd, he also has a severe form of sinusitis that has been creating a tremendous amount of pressure on his brain and is effecting the way he behaves. His surgery date comes soon, and hopefully the surgery will relieve most of the crazy behavior so that me and my kids are no longer dealing with his issues plus her issues. I have many reasons for doubting his mental health diagnoses as we know he has been suffering with the brain pressure for over a year his blood pressure is not controllable even with medication and the elephant load of medications they have him on aren't working other then the ones that are sedating him to where he is not a danger to himself or others. I have anxiety and depression and have been prescribed Paxil, my paxil is very strong and makes me sleep and not function very well, since the issues with my husbband have become so prevalent I am not taking the paxil as I am the only functioning adult in the house and can not afford to sleep more than absolutely necessary. Any thoughts or positive vibes, insight or just an ear to let me know I am not alone, would be appreciated...
  2. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Hi there and welcome to the board, but sorry you have to be here.

    Actually, I think you are here because you DO know something is wrong. You can't diagnose her, you're not trained to do t hat, but you must know it isn't in the normal range to try to choke her brother or chase people with scissors because they are angry. It sounds like there are a lot of mental health issues in the family and that perhaps you don't want to think they are as bad as they are and maybe they aren't. But I do think that you really need to give the professionals some credit and I'm surprised your daughter hasn't been evaluated yet...I prefer neuropsychs to just counselors. And it's possible she is on the spectrum. She has traits. Many Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) kids talk a lot, but the trouble comes when they have to hold a give and take conversation or explain things, especially feelnigs or motivations. They either can't or don't know. But also she could also have some early childhood red flags for mental health issues. Kids do not normally get violent towards other living things to the extent that she does if they are just your every day kid.

    I could never guess what could be wrong with her, but in my opinion it's more than just ODD, which many of us don't believe is a valid diagnosis anyway. For her sake and yours, I think it would be a good idea to take her for a neuropsychologist evaluation, which is usually 6-10 hours of testing in all areas. And in my opinion you need to keep an open mind so that you can help her and things don't get worse. If you feel you have to seperate her from her brother, that alone is acknowledgement that she is not safe around him. Eventually she could not be safe around others too. She really does need to get some help. And that may or may not include medication.

    Her high intelligence should help her. She has to know already that she is not the same in her reactions as other kids her age. If she doesn't, then I'd say she may be on the spectrum as well as possibly having other issues. Very hard to know without an evaluation.

    Can you tell us more about her background? Did she have a chaotic infancy/toddlerhood that may have lead to attachment issues? Was she always different? Anything else you can share about her which could help us guide you in the right direction? My only advice for now is not to ignore it. Get her tested. And don't be afraid of what you here. ANYTHING can be treated. ANYTHING. Go in bravely and know you are doing the right thing.

    Again, welcome to the board.
  3. Dixies_fire

    Dixies_fire Member

    Umm earlier life... Was kind of hectic. Her dad and I separated a few times and got back together before the big D. She lived with him while I was in training for the military which lasted about a year she was 4 at the time. She and her brother stayed with him while I deployed from 2010-2011. She knows her dad cheated on me while I was deployed and that's the reason we aren't together.
    There is a lot of mental illness in my family but mostly in the older generation which they don't even seem to know what's going on they just throw medications at. My mom depression my sister bipolar. My own anxiety which isn't something I had as a child it's something I acquired as an adult. For all of his fault I don't think her bio dad has ever abused her. He didn't have the best judgement on the behavior he was modeling to his 5 year old while I wasn't there but he worships her as well and is pretty familiar with her faults too. I've done a lot of reading about odd as it was the only thing that seemed to talk about what my child was going through and I have to agree that they have a if your kid has it get them to a therapist and pray approach, not a lot of techniques for dealing with it very well at least not many that I haven't figured out on my own. She's very creative, she's very sweet to the baby. She wants my approval, I'm not shy about giving it to her. And on the previous post about her eating issues we've been dealing with that since 4 not 8. She has texture issues with food her dad's family has a lot of that also but no diagnosis besides dad's ADHD which he is a functioning adult that can hold a job and very smart but is not the best with writing skills. Thanks for the feed back. Who can I go to besides her pediatrician that might evaluate her? Or might give me tips on getting her evaluated. Her teacher absolutely adores her, when we began the school year I was nervous because last year she was in trouble almost every day even though she was still making her grades. I asked her current teacher about the behavior she was seeing and she said tk was a dream student soon I feel like they might look at me like I'm crazy if I go and say something is wrong but I do feel something IS wrong.
  4. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Thanks you for the background information. That could cause a young child some attachment issues, which can lead to some strange and sometimes even cruel behaviors. I know that this happens when one parent is deployed, but it can, without any malice behind it, cause kids to feel insecure and unattached. Seperations in infancy and toddlerhood can also cause attachment problems. Not saying she has them, but it's a possibility. Attachment Disorder is a spectrum with some k ids just really acting out and some less obvious.

    Because your daughter has atypical behaviors and sometimes even gets violent, and I mean this in the kindest way, I do think you need to get her tested. Not just therapy...therapists don't know a whole lot about childhood disorders...but neuropsychologist tested. She has a genetic history to follow her too and what doctors did not know in the generation of your elders, they could very well know now and be able to treat. My own mood disorder started as a child and I also had a lot of trouble making friends, although I desperately wanted to. Now your daughter is not the same as I was. I never got good grades and I also did not get into any trouble during school (more at home), but all kids are different, even those who tend to be wired differently. The best results occur when you find out as early as possible what is going on and how to help it. Many of us, especially those who have been around the block a few times, don't believe ODD is a real disorder. It basically means t he child is defiant, but it doesn't say WHY the child is defiant and it doesn't have any treatment. I think using scissors and other dangerous behaviors is beyond ODD anyway. Your son and dog should never have to be afraid of your daughter. That right there is a huge red flag. Cruelty to animals can be a marker for attachment disorder. Does she stay dry all night? Ever potty in inappropriate places? Ever mess with or show a fascination with fire? Does she show emotion or talk in a monotone? Make good eye contact with you and strangers too? Ever have any obsessive interests that consume her? Does she have good imaginative play skills?

    I am just asking random questions because I'm not sure what is going on with her, only that something is. You can not go by what teachers say. They focus mainly on good grades. They are educators, not neuropsychs or psychiatrists. It is not their field to know what is or isn't going on with your child. You feel that something is wrong, and I believe strongly in something I call MOM GUT! Get her tested. The longer you put it off, the more problems you can encounter, especially in the pre-teen years and she is getting there.

    Hugs and keep posting. Weekends can be slow. others will answer you eventually.
  5. Dixies_fire

    Dixies_fire Member

    She potty trained a little late near 3, but never even had an accident since then. No monotone and good eye contact except when in trouble. She's started this stuff of saying yes ma'am over and over to get me off her back when she's in trouble and will try her best not to look at me when she is in major trouble. Huge imagination. When she was very small had one imaginary friend, then moved away from imaginary friend to her stuffed rabbit, has started moving away from rabbit now that she has made a few friends but now she writes stories and is trying to get me to let her start recording Barbie soap operas for YouTube. Doesn't accept blame or responsibility easily. Have recently been getting better about saying she did some small stuff because if she admits it she doesn't get in much trouble. But definitely doesn't accept responsibility for the violent behavior without a serious talk. The shaking incident was because of a cookie, the tackling incident was because he was touching her stuff. Couldn't even say why she was chasing him with scissors. Her dad asked why she had scissors I said she's 8!!! She's allowed to have scissors she's even allowed to have scissors at school. But not any more. She's only tried to hit me once and that didn't go over well so she never tried again. But even though the hitting/violence to her brother doesn't go over well she persists with it. I think because I don't catch it every single time she does it. We have instituted a new rule though every time she gets caught committing minor violence to her brother she is grounded for 24 hours from the time she hit. She goes to her room and can not have any electronics or tv or anything besides books, basically can only socialize with us at meal times. It's working better than anything else I've tried. Better than lectures, time outs, spankings, me losing my cool. And she seems happier which sounds weird because she knows what the discipline is going to be every single time. Her brother boyo has spent the last week and a half with her dad and she has been here she is doing very well but I don't think that's any kind of answer to the long term problem.
  6. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I'm going to show you a link to attachmen problems. Then I'll let others check in. I know something seems "off" but can't get a good read on your daughter. If indeed she had very chaotic early years, she certainly may have problems relating to attachment and that can cause violence. My guess is that if she doesn't get serious help now, she may start being violent to other children besides her brother and maybe to other animals too. I hope you do take her for an evaluation. Here's info from a link on attachment disorder. If your daughter has it, she doesn't have every symptom and it is mild, but s he still needs intervention. Other than attachment disorder, I think your daughter is a puzzle with some issues that are serious, and she should get that evaluation rather than you and hub just trying to do it yourself.

    Here are many reasons why the development of this connection can be disrupted. Factors that may contribute to impaired attachment include:
    • Premature birth
    • In utero trauma such as exposure to drugs or alcohol
    • Unwanted pregnancy
    • Separation from birth mother
    • Postpartum depression in mother
    • Severe abuse and/or neglect in the first years of life
    • Multiple caretakers
    • Hospitalizations
    • Unresolved pain
    • Painful or invasive medical procedures
    • Insensitive
    These children have learned at a preverbal stage that the world is a scary and distrustful place. This lesson has taken place at a biochemical level in the brain.

    Identifying Attachment Disorder

    The Child:
    1. Superficially charming, acts cute to get what he/she wants.
    2. Indiscriminately affectionate with unfamiliar adults.
    3. Lacks genuine affection with primary caregivers (especially mother).
    4. Controlling, bossy, manipulative, defiant, argumentative, demanding, impulsive.
    5. Preoccupation with fire, death, blood, or gore.
    6. Cruelty to animals, destruction of property, aggression toward others or self.
    7. Destructive, accident-prone.
    8. Rages or has long temper tantrums, especially in response to adult authority.
    9. Poor eye contact, except when lying.
    10. Blames others for their problems.
    11. Lacks self-control.
    12. Lacks cause and effect thinking.
    13. Lies, steals, shows no remorse, no conscience, defiant.
    14. Hoards or sneaks food, strange eating habits.
    15. Poor hygiene: wets or soils self.
    16. Has difficulty maintaining friendships.
    17. Underachiever.
    18. Persistent nonsense questions and incessant chatter.
    19. Grandiose sense of self lacks trust in others to care for him/her.
    There is a range of attachment problems resulting in varying degrees of emotional disturbances in the child. Some of these children may have concurrent diagnoses such as Oppositional Defiant Disorder, Conduct Disorder, Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, Mood Disorders such as Depression or Bipolar Disorder, and Posttraumatic Stress Disorder. Unfortunately, many children with Reactive Attachment Disorder are often misdiagnosed and receive inadequate therapy for years.
  7. Dixies_fire

    Dixies_fire Member

    I want to get her an evaluation but am still not sure how to get her one she has an appointment with the pediatrician coming up but I've brought up many of these things before and they blew it off. Some of that sounds familiar to me, some in minor or mild ways some in major ways some not at all. At least I have something new to bring up with doctor and see if we can get a referral for some help. I mean she isn't dismembering puppies or anything but she is rough with the dog because she resents being asked to take him out and clean up after him when she didn't take him out when I asked. She tries to play the parent a lot especially to the brother that she picks on. She even tells people she watches him. She told a CPS worker that she gets left alone because I went to the mail box. The CPS worker was referred to our home because of my husband being admitted to the psychiatric hospital. Very bossy. Hard to make friends but she seems to be able to keep them. Myself and her dad have been her only care takers but the deployment definitely took a toll many of these issues she didn't have until I came home. Her dad during our divorce while I was deployed told her that I chose to go to Afghanistan and leave them to justify his cheating to his child. She is very loving to me and approval seeking from me but its very difficult to express approval when there is bad behavior mixed with the good most days. but I definitely want to look into this more and see what a professional has to say and what I can learn. I definitely feel like many of her issues might be able to be over come before its too late.
  8. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Welcome, Dixiesfire.
    I can see you have a complicated case here and I just want to mention a couple of things.
    One, I would get a lower dose of Paxil or another medication. It is so much work to deal with-what you've got and I think you may need something to take the edge off. I just don't know how you do it.
    Also, definitely seek professional help for her and for you. Can you go outside of the military? I'm guessing that there is a cost factor. It would really help to get some guidelines and tools and a cheering section on your side. :)
  9. Dixies_fire

    Dixies_fire Member

    They (the military) swears there is all this help for families effected by deployment the only offer of therapy we have been given is play therapy recently and the adhd medication a year ago which I am devoutly against both, I want her to go real therapy with a professional who is not trying to turn me into the enemy. If she needs medications then fine but they need to be prescribed by someone who is not telling me I am over reacting. I have not looked outside of the military installation yet, we are seeing a new primary care physician next week I am going to see what he says and then start calling the city. Cost is definitely a factor. We are in colorado the cost of living here is ridiculous, my husband is facing medical retirement because of the issues he is going through which have resulted from neglect of medical care. I am not against going back to therapy for myself, I spent a year in therapy when I returned from deployment dealing with the divorce and all the fall out. I think I need medication too just so I have some distance from all of the issues, maintain some perspective. I feel like I have a million pound elephant sitting on my chest, I am driving my mother crazy because I have no friends here and too much on my plate and call daily some times multiple times a day just to hear someone tell me that I'm going to get through this. The stuff with tk is very minor compared to the problems my husband is facing but I've had it I want everyone in therapy getting their needs met. It's like trickle down economics except its trickle down issues. My husband is effecting all of us and my daughter is effecting all of us. I do not want my 3 year old and infant to develop any problems. There is only one of me and god knows I'm not perfect. I had to accept help from ex who is starting to try to play the blame game and wanting to be angry at my husband and trying to say my kids from that marriage should stay with him. Because apparently from his view point tk trying to kill boyo is just "kids being kids" he's a good dad but sometimes he's clueless. He makes less money than us by a large margin, just moved up here to be closer to the kids he has our two kids plus one just found out he's going to have another. I am not in a position to help him out financially if he took the kids as we have to start shoveling debt quick in order to make the transition out of the army. It's all starting to resemble the springer show and I am embarrassed, hurt that my marriage (the partnership part) is on hold till we either get surgery or medications that work for him, which is coming but not fast enough. Tk needs help and I need respite and not judgement from someone who hasn't been here and has no idea what's going on with the kids or my life.
  10. Liahona

    Liahona Guest

    Hi and welcome!

    My sister's family is in the air force. They can see a developmental pediatrician. I don't know if the air force insurance and army insurance are the same.

    TK sounds a bit like my oldest. He has many issues at the same time. She probably doesn't have all his issues. He also has attacked the other kids. (his was with the intent to kill. I don't know if TK had that intention and planing or just got mad and out of control.) Shows little or no remorse unless caught and their is no other way out. Doesn't accept responsiblity for his own behavior. Also doesn't always understand that he shouldn't say certain things to some people. (We just had a talk that you don't talk about making bombs in school or at gov't buildings.) We also had eating issues (but for differant reasons.) He would refuse to eat for days and then binge when he got hungry enough to eat.

    I have often wondered if my oldest has an attachment disorder, but so far the professionals say he doesn't.

    What I have done to keep everyone safe is to put an alarm on his door. Then I would put a baby monitor up so I could hear the alarm. I kept a phone in my pocket so I could call for help, and my keys with my also so he couldn't lock me out of the house with him and the other kids inside the house. I found I couldn't keep him in his room all the time, so most times he had to be my shadow. That meant in my sight at all times, not behind me in the same room or beside me, but in my sight. With the food the rule was he had to eat two small bowls of cereal. Some times he wanted more sometimes he wanted none. With my other kids the rule is they have to eat 3 bites.

    If TK has such sensory issues you are worried about her weight an Occupational Therapist (OT) might help.

    I am also on an anti depressant. If you can get a psychiatrist for yourself that would be good, or even a good general dr that knows enough to change your paxil. There are lots of medications. It doesn't have to be just that one medication at that one dose or nothing. I do understand that with everyone else needing taking care of that your dr appointments just don't happen. You'll be better able to take care if them if you are more functional.

    Again welcome.
  11. Dixies_fire

    Dixies_fire Member

    Liahona- I am on mobile and can't see your signature what is your difficult child's diagnosis if you don't mind me asking?
    Some does sound familiar. We have same insurance as the Air Force and there is an Air Force installation close by so if they have a developmental pediatrician on their base and we don't we can get referred. I will ask about that.

    I don't think tk wants to kill, but I think she is getting caught up in her anger and focusing it on her brother. She was an only child for 5 years and I think she believes life was idyllic before her bro came along and some how it's all his fault, even things that might be my fault. Or just how things turned out some how are Boyo's fault. Things have not escalated to the point you describe with your difficult child but i def don't want them to get to that point before we seek help. She is actually better at the present moment then she was but I have thought that before and then something else will happen. Tk binge eats sometimes on her favorite foods. She used to be a disassociative eater which means she would eat less than five foods total. That has improved dramatically because of my friend who was the mental health specialist she has a son with autism and she applied some of the same techniques with tk and many of them worked. We also cook together regularly which has increased what she will eat also. She has gained 15lbs in the past year but she is still wearing clothes she was bought in kindergarten because they still fit, and she's attached to those clothes now and doesn't want to wear the new stuff as much. It is not much of an issue since they still fit and look okay but I am foreseeing having to remove clothes from her drawer without her knowing as she gets taller. The old pediatrician was not concerned with her weight growth eating issues because she was tall for her age and said it was normal to be picky he didn't look at her bones sticking out at the time. For the first time ever I can not count her ribs so I am thankful.

    I am breastfeeding right now so there are only a few options I can take. Paxil worked before I was pregnant but I was also on diet pills almost all the time trying to stay inside the weight allowance for soldiers. I don't take those anymore cause of the breast feeding and the Paxil makes me sleepy now or at least this dosage does. I plan on seeing my doctor in the near future as for going back to therapy for me I want to but am not sure when I will fit it all in. I am starting to understand what warrior mom means and truthfully wonder if I am up for the task. Thanks for the welcome.
  12. buddy

    buddy New Member

    I'm glad lia chimed in, she had a baby too......plus lots of other little ones.

    It does seem a puzzle. I hope you can find a developmental pediatrician or a neuropsychologist to do a really thorough evaluation. I'll warn you now that I bet no pediatrician will agree that there is attachment disorder. Most psychologists won't diagnosis that either, they don't understand the spectrum it can be and only think of the severe totally detached, fire starting, animal killing kinds of kids.
    Your difficult child sounds attached to you but may suffer insecurities that came from moving between caregivers etc. I was wondering what Lia said, did she intend to kill or is she really out of control and hurtful, does she understand killing? You may want to clarify that when you describe because trying to kill is very different from impulsive dangerous behaviors in terms of diagnosis and treatment. But in terms of daily life, as Lia said, you have to set up life to keep the other kids safe. Locks on Sharps, alarms, cameras, line of sight supervision....
    The more you post the more sensory integration symptoms you share. I would try to tell, not ask the doctor...that you want a sensory integration evaluation with an occupational therapist. Don't accept no. Get a patient advocate if they block you.
    I just call the Occupational Therapist (OT) therapy places and have them send the form for my doctor to sign off. I leave a message with the doctor that the form is coming and I need it signed. But, we do have a diagnosis...that may help. Still..we all learn to be pretty assertive or nothing gets done.

    I think your gut is right. Play therapy is ok if there are emotional issues to work on and if the child's play is typical. But therapy that only focuses on the family system when there is a developmental/neurological or genetic mental health condition is not enough. Keep digging for answers. Mommy instinct is usually right.

    You may find a group of things are issues and never get a big diagnosis.....but as you saw, using therapies that match the learning style of your child can really help. If Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) methods work then read up on it. You don't need that diagnosis to learn parenting strategies that help. Many mental health programs around here are using those methods and finding success because the methods are based on direct teaching and skill building rather than consequences and rewards for choosing behaviors. Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) approach assumes the behaviors need to be taught not that the child is just choosing to be inappropriate. (in general).

    It worked for the eating....who knows?

    Good luck! Many of us have very complex kids here. It is the kind of special that is not fun! Hugs.
  13. SuZir

    SuZir Well-Known Member

    Buddy, again, gives the most excellent advices. It really sounds that there may well be something neurological going on. It doesn't even need to be that major that, with 'right' environmental factors, it can wreck huge havoc. Do also remember that neurological and psychological issues don't cut each other off. It is well possible to have both.

    It sounds that your daughter has had rather stressful times in her life and your current situation is also very stressful for your whole family. So that and family dynamics are likely to play also some part. At times it is, for us parents at least, easier to just concentrate to neurological stuff, and many professionals like to concentrate psychological/family dynamics part, because that is easier for them, but to help our kids it is often important to tackle both, because neurological and psychological issues are certainly not separate in child's life. They do intervene to each others and the mess we see from outside is often the complex web of both. And you just has to start to sort it out from different angles.

    My kid is one of those, who originally didn't have that much wrong in him. But those small neurological differences, family dynamics, social skill deficits, peer relationships and likely some other things started to snowball into quite a mess. We tried everything we could think of, had some successful professional interventions, some not so successful and some things did slow down the pace snowball was rolling, some even unrolled it a bit, some made it worse but well, we ended up with rather messed up and difficult young adult who luckily also has lots of strengths and is now trying to deal with that snowball and I can just hope he will be successful with that.
  14. buddy

    buddy New Member

    Well said Suzir. Even my Q with his limited communication skills (he talks a ton but struggles with conversation, has to be his agenda and he changes topic if not, etc...) has benefited from mental health/family counseling when I could find therapists who knew how to work around that. When he was little we did a lot of attachment therapy (specific therapy by specialists in attachment disorder....that is crucial in attachment therapy) and when he was older he said he wanted someone to tell his worries to, I found a therapist who specialized in emotional therapy for clients with autism. That's not easy to find and he did well but she quit because she was afraid of him.
    Between that we tried other more traditional therapists, and because of all the things i mentioned, they just caused us stress. Q would fall apart because he couldn't play their games and couldn't answer open ended questions.....it was awful.

    I think kids who have neurological or developmental disabilities often do have a layer of mental health issues, either true mental illness or emotional challenges from their disability.

    I've often felt Q is doing pretty well given every single day of his life, multiple times per day, people were angry with him, frustrated, he had consequence after consequence.....how do you develop good self-esteem with that going on? How do you not become angry and frustrated?

    He has asked me to tell teachers that he is doing the best he can, to ask them if they know God made him like this?... He has worried that he won't go to heaven (though I tell him of course he will!)....

    Anyway, the point is Suzir is so right, you may need both. It is really important to address it all. Just don't let anyone put blame on you or ignore the developmental things you feel are a part of this. At the same time be open to the possibility that there is a mental health condition at work.

    I hope your medical providers cooperate!
  15. Dixies_fire

    Dixies_fire Member

    Maybe I'm kidding myself... I have successful days and not so successful parenting days and if we need to work our family dynamic I'm willing. Honestly watching my friend with the child who has autism she makes me feel inferior because her house runs like a well oiled machine. There's a protocol for how she deals with every situation and it doesn't vary. And if it some of it worked for terryn then you're right maybe more of it will.

    Tk and I discussed death in detail the last time I pulled her off of her brother. I don't know if I did it right but I told her death was permanent as we have lost pets and my dad died she seemed to get that. I said what I always say about the hitting "when you put your hands on someone else you never know what will happen." Because sometimes she has just done a quick shove of her brother and it ended up in disastrous results and it seemed to shock her. "I just pushed him! Why is he bleeding! I didn't mean to." I said if she killed her brother even if she didn't mean to that I would be angry, her dad would be angry, her grand mother etc, and that no one would forgive her for that. That people would not care if it was an accident and not only would boyo be dead and not coming back but she would go to jail or a mental hospital for what she did and no one would feel bad for her.
    It seemed to take a minute to process. And what floored her the most is that no one would feel bad for her if she ended up in jail and that it wasn't a forgivable offense. That seemed to make some kind on impression. I don't think she was ever purposely trying to kill him but I think she thought whatever she did to him, she would be forgiven for it by the family.

    Thanks for Terryn responses.
  16. Dixies_fire

    Dixies_fire Member

    The responses.
  17. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I believe she wasn't trying to kill him. When they get older and bigger, sometimes intent doesn't matter though. She can't keep doing that for any reason. Some kids, and adults as well, can not control their anger when they are ticked off and strike without thinking. That's what needs to be stopped. That's why professionals are usually necessary. All the talks we have with them beforehand just seem to fly in the wind when they are emotional. I am no big fan of unnecessary medication but some kids do need it. Not saying yours does, but some kids do.

    Do you feel she may have trouble feeling empathy toward others? Seems that her main concern about killing somebody is w hat it would do for her, not the other person. Does she show compassion for others? Just curious.
  18. Dixies_fire

    Dixies_fire Member

    Not much no. Which is why I phrased it the way I did when I was talking to her. When I was a kid I would look at my parents and try to judge their mood before asking for something or if they were stressed or angry I would stay out of the way as much as possible. Tk doesn't do that. She generally jumps in with her two cent about any conversation or situation going on that she sees. I don't know if that is normal or not because I was the baby and never saw my siblings being raised I just know I never did that and tk is my first born.

    We were visiting husband in the hospital and she made a point of letting him know how much she did not want to be there. She is 8! She should be learning how to be polite and every thought that Comes through her head should not be coming out of her mouth anymore. I told her that she would hurt his feelings and we were the only people he was going to see all day to be patient and sit down. We were only there an hour and she started counting down the minutes after we had been there ten minutes. And yes I think she did it on purpose because I told her before we walked in she needed to be nice and patient and asked her if she was in the hospital would she not want someone to visit her?

    She has a habit of asking questions that she just heard you talking about that she already knew the answer to. Most of the time it does not bug me but others have pointed it out to me privately .
    I try really hard to put things in that perspective to her. "What would you do if this happened to you?" How would you feel" sometimes it works sometimes not.
  19. SuZir

    SuZir Well-Known Member

    I hope you didn't understand me wrong. I wasn't trying to imply in any way, that her issues would be your fault or that you would not be willing to do your part of the work. Not at all. And I better mention English is not my first language, so my 'between the lines' can be something I didn't mean at times (along with all the grammar mistakes.)

    To me it sounds that your daughter does have something neurological going on too. Her impulse control may be an issue, reading social cues and understanding other person's point of view too. But also your earlier deploiments and of course your husband's current illness are major stressors for your whole family, also her. And that can cause it's own issues. Especially with possible neurological issues. You need to get her evaluated for neurological side, but also do take any help for psychological side that you can get and that seems to help.

    And yeah, you will have to work on family dynamics, parenting and all that. In the end, doesn't really matter are you willing are not, you can't really return her to where she came ;) As unfair as it is, our difficult children require us to go extra mile in parenting and working for our parenting skills. I'm far from perfect parent. My parenting successes are few and far between and my laundry list of 'what not to do' is long and stems from bitter experience. Still if I had only my easy child, I could easily imagine I'm quite good in this parenting business. He is one of those kids who are almost impossible to ruin with parenting. With difficult child though, let's just say that it wasn't one extra mile, but more like few times around the globe.
  20. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    The more you talk about her, the more symptoms I see of Aspergers (obviously a very bright academically Aspie with poor social skills and social cue reading). Again, none of us are professionals so we don't know for sure. I do think a neuropsychologist would be a good idea for her, even if you have to take her to a private one. A developmental pediatrician is usually for much younger kids and does not do the extremity of testing neuropsychs do. You can not assume she will just grow out of it.

    Often Aspies seem to be empathy challenged because they are "me-centered" and not in the way of a regular young kid who may be a bit selfish. They honestly spend a lot of time inside their own heads, and speak their minds because they don't "get" that it may hurt somebody else. Some kids on the autism spectrum, in all of the spectrum, do get violent, either often or sometimes. They have less ability to control themselves than typical children.

    My final word: Have her completely evaluated. She has many strengths and her intelligence will help her learn social skillls, but she may need almost a text book class to teach them to her. Often these kids do not pick up the skills by watching other kids. Part of that is because many don't pay much attention to wh at other kids do and are not interested in social norms. Many Aspies are brilliant in certain areas. Yet they seem clueless in simple social situations.

    If she does or doesn't have it, she will still do better if she is tested. In the US you get little help unless you seek out help. Your child is just considered "unusual" or "bad." And it's not true!