I Guess Basic Business Etiquette has Changed and I am an IDIOT

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by susiestar, Mar 20, 2012.

  1. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Just ask my husband.

    He just came in talking about how strange it was that no one said anything about his resignation letter. I asked if he had told his boss in person. He snapped at me like I was two and asking to lick his popsicle. Told me that NOW in business you don't have conversations about things because you can keep records if you put it in an email. So NO ONE talks to anyone ever anymore. He has this tone that if I had a job then I would know this, and since I don't then I am too stupid to say anything.

    It is not the first time. Since the first online job ads came out he has INSISTED that these are the ONLY way to get a job. That NO ONE goes to talk to an employer or gets hired because they knew somoene who recommended them. I asked him to take a drug test the last time he told me that. I was totally serious. I know he is not a drug user, he maybe drinks 1 drink every month or two, and barely uses aleve, but it is such a stupid thing to say. Esp as his NEW job was gotten because his old advisor (who is a long time friend of MY family) called a friend that she knew was hiring and talked husband up until they asked husband in for an interview. This was NEVER posted online until the jbo was filled except the paperwork because that is how most jobs are filled f there is a requirement that they be posted somewhere.

    I refused to discuss business stuff with husband. I would NOT let him explain once he told me that they sent an email that asked that info and requests be put in email unless it is a time sensitive issue. Gee, tomorrow is his last day and they want him to teach starting the 2nd week of April. Isn't THAT time sensitive?

    I pulled his own passive aggressive koi and told him fine, I was wrong, I have CLEARLY been out of the job force for far too long to have any clue what I am talking about and I will not comment on business etiquette or other social things/cues/skills again. (He is FOREVER saying stuff like this when you ask why he said something,e ven if it is totally inappropriate in a very unfunny way.)

    He got his hangdog apology face and I just woudl NOT let him keep it. I kept apologizing and taking the blame and no-it-isn't-your-faulting him and he is terribly confused. Then I thanked him for something he did and just seemed my normal self.

    I hate his insistence that the computer and internet replace all socal skills. No need to call, to talk, to interact. Just send an email or text - how can that be inappropriate???

    This drives me NUTS!! I spent YEARS studying the business world and I am NOT that out of touch!

    Thanks for letting me vent.
  2. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    You're welcome. I hear ya!

    (P.S. He's wrong.)
  3. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Well... he's "wrong" - but his viewpoints are way too popular.

    Email does not replace personal connection. Ever. It IS an excellent tool for administrivia, including arranging meetings, and sharing a re-cap afterwards, which provides the "written follow-up".

    But... tech-heads love to hide behind their computer screens. Just be cause we "can" get away with none of that icky personal interaction stuff doesn't mean we "should"... and if we do? It will bite, sooner or later. Personal trumps impersonal, every time.
  4. Star*

    Star* call 911........call 911

    I think you're both right.

    I recently attended a resume writing class. My CV is a page and 1/3 long. It's concise, no glamor or glitz and states facts, not fluffy stuff. I've even gotten people here to critique it, and went from there to a self-proclaimed professional and had it redone.

    When I gave it to Goodwill? They didn't even read it.

    So when I went to the resume class - Much to my chagrin? The times have changed so drastically that now CV's and resumes are put into a scanner - and KEY WORDS are being looked for. The resumes with the highest percentage of keywords get interviews. How do you know which is which? No telling. They input key words - and if you match THEN you get to personally dazzle - if not? Tough luck you get a text via email on your Microsoft hotmail account that says - We found someone we liked, had better qualifications - and sometimes but not always thank you. This way employers are not swayed by a pretty face or a quick whit - they get 100% of what they want - WORKER bee......not some SOB wtih a great backline - who works but is a problem sometimes in the company. That's pretty much how it was explained to me. They figure it the KEYWORD fits? HIRE. WORK - PRODUCTION....PROFIT - no time for personal chit chat. Those days are gone. If you are scheduled to work 9 hours - by golly.......you better be there 1/2 an hour before and willing to stay late.

    My resume - is now just about a page long. I have two - one for driving and one for office work from the past 30 years. NEITHER - are appropriate to list - Clubs I belong to, interests, and when I asked WHY - doesn't that give the employer an idea of who you are, if you'll get along? The answer was - They aren't looking to make friends - they want quantity and quality of work. You either can do it or not. That has nothing at all to do with your church affiliation, your volunteer work, how many gallons of blood you gave over the last 20 years - or if you are a Master Bridge player - NONE of that....counts for squat. THEY DO NOT CARE.

    So the impersonal aspect your husband was speaking of? EXISTS and it's growing. Sadly - I think I'm one of the last of my kind to SEND Christmas cards - and thank you LETTERS, and call people. Emails and texting have replaced so much even the United STATES Postal service is shutting doors. What does that say? LOADS. If we wrote one letter instead of a call each week per person it probably wouldn't happen. On line billing has replaced trees and jobs......So now I've started sending my bills in via check payment. I like my postal service - I don't want the rates to go up......I send letters, I buy stamps and I use them AFTER interviews ONLY because it just may give me the edge over everyone else - that like YOU Susie still would like to see.

    Manners have not been replaced - PEOPLE have been replaced and we've raised a generation or two of non-emotional LOL kids and email kids. They do EVERYTHING with laptops and cellphones - don't believe me? Just see how many of them can function if it's LOST and they haven't backed up their SIM. - Now you get what I'm saying - and maybe what DF was saying - just said it wrong, and may have been feeling a little out of place because workers our age? Sad to say - but the things we VALUED - aren't of value much any longer in the workplace -

    The other thing that crossed my mind? I think you're hurting so badly, that you'd like just ONE person in the world to acknowledge how hard your husband works and what a good person he is.....Things may have been bad at the office, and he just didn't want to add to you not feeling well - but you caught him off guard, and he got snappy - not meaning to but he felt safe lashing out at you. I do that with DF from time to time and when I do? I'd give anything to hack my tongue off and wipe the board clean....without having to look at him. It's like - OH come here words - GET BACK IN MY HEAD you were not suppose ta come out. UGH. But stress at work did that to me too......he'd ask a simple question and I'd react immaturely as if he didn't have a clue ------and like you? He'd get defensive - and we'd walk wide circles then I'd apologize and he'd ask me if I was even aware I was so snappy. Usually - NOT. Just stress attached itself to me at the job and I had no idea it came home with me.

    I'm not like that now ------lol. Now it's trying to explain WHY I have to sit on the computer 10 hours a day filling out applications and I'm not out "beating" the street for a job. NO ONE takes a paper application anymore....Not even the supermarket. It's like - THE TWILIGHT ZONE......

    Take care of each other -------

    I'm living proof - I told the TRUTH and got canned. The bully, liar, exaggerator and pot stir still HAS her job, she GOT her vacation - and she doesn't care that I can't pay my bills.....thanks to her efforts. Yet the company doesn't look on her like - WOW what a horrible person. Nope - it's WOW what a go getter - clawing her way to the top. Well they can have it.
  5. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Star... its not all firms and not all industries and not all the time... mostly, not all the time. My world (techie stuff)? The good stuff goes to "who knows who". If you have connections, then a paper resume is vital - they want to see the personal side. It will either be a group interview, or 3 interviews... they want "fit". The rest of the jobs are "mcjobs"... any "body" will do, so we get as close as we can find on a keyword match, and have a good long probation period... you work out, or out you go. And if you're a square peg in a round hole kind of person? you're out of luck. Unless you know somebody...
  6. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I had a keyword interview but it was a panel interview in person with three people doing the interviewing. I had no clue at the time they were looking for keywords though.
  7. trinityroyal

    trinityroyal Well-Known Member

    Susie, you're right, your husband is wrong.

    Star, IC, you both make good points. Depending on the industry and the type of position being filled, employers use more or less automation to filter job candidates. In a way it makes sense. When I have positions to fill within my team I often get 1000 applicants or even more. For one job. It's near-impossible to read that many resumes individually. Even if you do they all become a blur, so you use criteria to weed out the completely unsuitable candidates immediately. Then the personal stuff begins. Phone calls, panel interviews, individual interviews with peers, management, senior management if necessary, etc.

    However, that's all to do with hiring. When you're leaving a job, personal interaction is essential. You don't want to leave bad blood behind you. If your husband sent a resignation e-mail, he should have also scheduled a meeting with his boss to talk about it face to face, preferably before the e-mail hit the boss's inbox. You don't want to blind-side someone with that sort of thing, ESPECIALLY if you have a good working relationship.
  8. keista

    keista New Member

    in my opinion your husband is wrong AND he contradicted himself. Since NOBODY talks about these things any more, I don't see why he would think it's strange that nobody mentioned his resignation. How could they if they don't talk about such things? :sigh:
  9. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    Many job applications ARE online. But they require personal follow up. Even Onyxx knows this. And she is definitely an "LOL kid".

    When I started thinking about how I was going to do the whole maternity leave thing? I didn't even CONSIDER putting it in an email, though I prefer them. Nope, in person. With my plans listed on paper. Any changes? FOLLOW UP via email.

    Sigh. Honey, he should say SOMETHING... But it is out of your hands.
  10. CrazyinVA

    CrazyinVA Well-Known Member Staff Member

    If no one said anything, how does he even know they got his emailed resignation? Email does fail from time to time ya know. Shaking head. I have never heard of someone resigning without talking to someone in person. It would definitely leave bad blood. I have, however, had friends who were fired/laid off via email, which is pathetic, in my opinion. Not to mention cowardly.

    I think hiriing practices vary by company and industry. I can definitely see how the automation process would help a larger company that gets inundated by resumes for openings, especially in these economic times. But knowing someone to get your foot in the door, and getting a recommendation, is *always* helpful. It's how you get your resume to the top of the pile. It's how I got my last job, by cold calling a friend of a friend. In my current position, I was hired away from my firm by a client who thought I did great work.. they created a position and put me in it. So I basically recommended myself :)

    Bottom line is, when looking for a job, you leave *no* stone unturned. You can't just rely on one way of looking, via online ads.
  11. Star*

    Star* call 911........call 911

    Okay (not being snotty even the least little bit here) ------

    When was the last time any of you were -

    Out of a job in todays job market with unemployment in SC being 3rd highest in the nation?
    Competing with Phd people for jobs at minimum wage?
    Being trained by and taught job skills classes by 20 somethings that have book skills in todays job market but no LIFE skill experience?
    Being told by the same LOL kids that THIS IS what you must do (XYZ) to get a job successfully and can and will show you the results on an Excel spread sheet via their lap top or other means you've never even used?

    I'm currently using ads on line, newspaper, face to face, cold calls, resumes - email - and it's very VERY tough. (again not whining) I agree with Susie* - I don't like what's happening....I haven't for years. It makes me feel OLD.
    Matter of fact to prove a point - I received a gift card for Thanksgiving from the CEO of our store. I wrote him a thank you card and mailed it. In the ENTIRE STATE - out of thousands of employes - THOUSANDS and that would include service to administration he came to the store to meet me and thank me as I was the ONLY person to send him a thank you card, and he was touched. Because of that everyone in our store got a gift card for Christmas. So I do still do what I think is right - but it has less and less place seemingly in the world today - and point is - I will always do what I think is mannerly.
    Thats all. It's just FRUSTRATING to be up against such odds. I think that's where the disconnect was between SUsie and her Hubby - SHe was right and he took the opportunity to bark the indifference to her - inappropriately. He could have explained it better....what is going on. She is nowhere NEAR....incorrect.

    Did I splain it better? And ICD - I agree with you - better companies DO have those policies - but right now? I'm competing in SC with literal PhDs and MUST HAVE Bachelors Degree for delivery positions - and Admin positions or receptionist jobs. It's nuts. They KNOW they can get people who paid for educations - to answer a phone for $7.50 an hr., has an excellent credit rating, has a husband that is probably a lawyer, and lives in a nice neihgborhood. That's my point.
  12. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Star... husband is in the same boat... I told you his story separately. We're watching companies post the exact same position... month after month... are they filling it and firing? or not filling? Don't know. But they are not hiring husband. And that's after getting past the interview and references layers, with no problems on either side of those two (we've verified that independently).

    If life were fair... but it isn't.
  13. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Star, I understand what you are saying. But my husband is a TEACHER right now and is moving to another TEACHING position. One where he stands there and teaches PEOPLE how to make computers do what they want. His true gift is that he is GREAT at making people understand computers and computers understand what people want, and that he is an incredible teacher esp of techie stuff. EVERY job he has had has been gotten because of his PEOPLE skills, that he is great with the laboratory stuff (before he went into computers he ran a lab that did EPA testing) and with computer stuff and with helping people understand that stuff - both employees and clients and students. He is also an amazing motivator - the one who keeps the morale up so the worker bees get more done. He worked at a Superfund site and kept the job as long as he did through TONS of cutbacks because his team was always happy and laughing and had higher production because it - and this was because he looks on the bright side and jokes and is gifted at that.

    He was HIRED by the co he is leaving because of how he works with people and by the co he is going to because of his teaching skills and skills with PEOPLE, and his love of learning new things.

    MOST of the things that got him noticed and hired in the last decade were because I pushed him to do the personal stuff - a thank you note got him the job with the computer co that was really good until the econ crashed. Then connections he made there and me pushing him to ask his advisor, profs, family friends to help got him the first teaching job and now this second one too. So it blows my mind that suddenly after he KNOWS that those thing I pushed him to do were WHY he got the jobs, now I am an IDIOT who needs to go get a job before I tell him to talk to anyone about anything. He knows those things are the WHY because his bosses have TOLD him that!!!!!

    I had cut back on any suggestions and now I am done making them. he can fumble around on his own for a hwile and then he can ASK why things keep not going well before I offer to help him.
  14. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    And then... when there is a person with incredible, impeccable people skills... they can't get a job.
  15. Star*

    Star* call 911........call 911

    OHhhhhhhhhhh I see........(lol) I'm just in my own little world of information overload and didn't quite get what you were saying. I do now - I'm sorry - You're right - no frickin bones. He owes you big time. And ICD - I absolutely get what you're saying. I may just take that job in Canada.....lol.
  16. CrazyinVA

    CrazyinVA Well-Known Member Staff Member

  17. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Thanks! it is a great article. maybe someday when husband has pulled his head out I will share it with him.