After reading some recent posts, I've been thinking. When we have kids under the age of 18 or even over 18 who aren't capable of living on their own.....what do you do when they absolutely, positively REFUSE to follow the most basic of house rules? These are the ones who aren't violent but just don't feel as if they have to do anything other than what THEY want to do and to heck with consequences. They just don't care. What do you do? Without the violence issue and if they are under 18 you can't legally kick them out. But when they feel that they can do whatever they want in your house, don't listen to anyone and there's nothing you can really threaten them with....what options are there? For instance, our difficult child, before turning 18, did horrible in school academically and behaviorally, ignored our rules, treated us with utter disrespect, didn't care what we did to him as punishment and there wasn't a single thing we could do. Extra chores? HA. You had to literally stand over him IF he chose to even do it. If he didn't want to...there was no making him do it. AND if he DID do it....it was usually such a half a** job (intentionally) that it was pointless to have even had him do it in the first place. It didn't matter anyway because he just didn't (and still doesn't) care. NOTHING got through to him. Not a single thing. Friends would tell me "just MAKE him do it". HOW???? The kid is 6'2". How do you make him do something he doesn't want to do? There is nothing to threaten him with. I would flat out tell him or even politely ask him not to use/eat/take something that I had plans for. He would (and still does) look me straight in the eye and say "ok mom, not a problem. I understand." In some cases, the VERY NEXT DAY, whatever it was would be eaten, broken or missing. All of the so called professionals either said to stick with it or threw their hands up in frustration too because they knew he wouldn't cooperate. I know that our kids have problems and illnesses but at the same time...I can't help but wonder. Why is it that we have to put up with this carp simply because they are our children? Just because a person is mentally ill, doesn't mean they get a free pass out of the most basic of life's rules. Why are we legally, morally and ethically bound to putting up with someone who refuses to help themselves, learn to help themselves and live up to the most basic of expectations. (you know...those hard things like .... not stinking, speaking to people with a civil tone, participating in their own life instead of coasting and expecting everything to be done for them, eating in a manner that suggests the person who sat at the table was older than 2 years old, and just basically acting like a human being.) I realize this may not be a popular thread but these are things that I've been thinking about and I'm curious as to other's take on this.