Kiddo, school, and related anxiety

[HaoZi]

Oy vey, this child. So she's currently failing two classes and like many Aspies when that anxiety hits the work gets worse instead of better. She's acting out at school and at home. Email from one teacher says Kiddo doesn't like drama because I don't like drama and Kiddo values my opinions.

!!!

Okay, I forget sometimes she takes things so literal, as I meant I don't like the kind of drama Kiddo (and people in general) CREATES rather than fictional drama. Suddenly Kiddo doesn't like Dickens because I don't.

Now would someone explain to me WHY this child doesn't value my opinion at home?! WTF. "I think you need a shower/medications/food/get up and go to school" or any such request is either ignored or violently opposed. What's with this value my opinion BS because I sure am NOT seeing it.

They work with her one on one in class to get this work done, and she's just flat out refusing to do her part.

Shoot me now, please.

 

[pasajes4]

I love the my mom does not like drama.

 

[InsaneCdn]

Ya. Just tossing this "out there", you're probably way ahead of me, but...

We found that so much of this "one-on-one support" was bunkum.
They were giving individual attention, alright, but not adapting to the difference in learning styles.
And THAT is critical.

We've had a good teacher (make that a GREAT one) who instantly caught the 'literality' mistakes and turned them around faster than a hurricane spins. Diverted so fast, replaced with a better literal statement, moved difficult child forward. Unfortunately, that was ONE out of.... (he's in HS now...)

The aides will keep doing the same thing and getting the same result - and will not modify their approach unless instructed (sometimes not even when instructed!). It can compound the problem.

 

[HaoZi]

Yes, they've tried various ways. They finally landed on reading the stuff to her and scribing her answers as the way that works for her when she cooperates. The key is that she is not cooperating. *headdesk*

 

[InsaneCdn]

There is a reason. Really. It's just hard to find.
difficult child went through two million reasons. (I lost count, so that's an estimate.)
And 99% were legitimate.

I've seen reasons like... a particular classroom having a radiator go on the fritz (noizy buzz) - the buzz drove him crazy, couldn't even handle being in the room; or some comment from a classmate at break time a few weeks back, taken out of context and too literally and causing anxiety. Anything. It's just really hard to pry these out of a difficult child. Sometimes THEY really don't know. But there is usually a reason.

 

[HaoZi]

She's not cooperating with me on finding a reason. All I get out of her is "It's too much," and "I hate it." Any talk of school ramps her up so I only ask to a point and then let it drop. Finally got one of the reasons she hates showers - because the cold water pools in the bottom first and she doesn't like it. Well heck honey if you'd get in early instead of waiting until the last minute you could have a bath instead, but nooooo, that doesn't work either.

 

[confuzzled]

dickens?

"i hate it" means, well "i hate it". ;-D

and "its too much" means they are trying to get me to critically think about it instead of regurgitating factual information from it, and they are asking me to do it in long winded "open answered" form in which i'm supposed to just KNOW wth tiny tim was thinking at that moment in chapter 5.

....and i probably dont have the skillset to do any of it so i'll just refuse.

now if you were to ask me what color socks tiny tim wore on page 142?

i could tell you the exact shade.

no words of wisdom....just giving you a possible explanation....she's probably beyond frusterated that no one listens when she tells them "i hate it(its too hard)/its too much(i really cant do this)"

i hope they move on quickly, for both of your sakes!

 

[isis]

OK, this sounds so much like my kid, who does not have an asperger's diagnosis, that now I really am wondering (about asperger's). Violent opposition to anything I suggest, check; randomly repeating statements I've made out of context to other important adults, check; dismiss other's opinions if they are not in line with 'ours' when he is out of the house, but with his when he's in the house, check; work impossibly overwhelming when anxiety comes in, and random but well worded excuses for not doing work, check.

 

[HaoZi]

Confuzzled I think you're probably right on the nail (provided she can even remember what she read in the first place on the socks). She doesn't do well on the critical thinking or open ended stuff. Spit out stuff on a multiple choice? That she could maybe manage. If she wants to. And read it. And liked it. And doesn't feel too pressured. Maybe.

And yes isis, Aspies are very good at sounding more competent than they truly are - they can give you nice monologues in scientific detail but understanding complex directions in verbal form is beyond them. Giving them step by step (and don't leave anything out, even common sense stuff!) directions in written form is often the best way for them. Break it down in easy to bite off portions if they seem overwhelmed by the whole thing.

 

[HaoZi]

Oh, her period started yesterday and she was much more cooperative in class. Seems we might have had a nice bout of PMS added to the mix as well as general attitude. I also added some chlor-tab (OTC allergy pill) to her medications yesterday morning. I did the same today. She had no meltdowns yesterday, so hoping today goes just as well!

 

[HaoZi]

by the way Confuzzled, I hope you don't mind but I cut and copied your response and sent it to her teacher and told her it was from a friend who also has kids with issues. She hasn't been doing perfectly lately (we had to have a discussion about constructive criticism vs petty criticism when she didn't like her grade in another class and had a fit over it), but she took that talk well.

 

[buddy]

I love how smart our board is. Boy, if teachers and therapists had these posts instead of text books???

That's so good...I do think they hold onto our words more if it helps serve their purpose in some way.....still legitimately literal but it just wouldn't be as noticeable if it didn't apply or relate to something for her, smile. Hope the teacher catches on better now. Idioms and social terms/uses for language sometimes need an IEP goal. We parents just naturally explain and work on it I think.

Isis, even without a diagnosis. Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) interventions are helpful for many related disabilities. (DOESNT work the other way though, many behavior disorder plans are disaster for Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) kids, they don't take the language and skill deficits into consideration enough among other things)

When I support gen.ed. classes I almost always have each child have their own small white board so the aides can fill in the missing steps. Teachers will say they DO put things in writing but they don't realize the detail they need and you then can check off the completed steps. I also make sure teachers and aides have! Post it notes so they can write reminders, social cues, praise etc....without public attention brought to them. They need to place them in not super obvious ways.
Just a couple of ideas that I've seen work for adhd, Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD)/aspergers, toutettes, mental health issues (esp.anxiety related) and auditory or language processing challenges.

May not help in your case but thought I'd toss it out there.

 

[TerryJ2]

Isis, where's the "like" button?

Hugs, HaoZi. I'm sorry it's so hard. My son wasn't able to clearly describe his issues until just a cpl of yrs ago. This past yr, he's gotten MUCH better at it. He'll be 16 in a wk. I'm hoping your daughter comes along as she matures, too.

 

[buddy]

Shock Terry! You can relate? I have no idea what you're talking about, lol.

 

[isis]

Buddy, I would love to hear more about this. We (husband and I) talked to my son's psychiatrist today who very strongly believes that he does not have aspergers. We specifically asked whether some of the interventions for asperger's would work anyway, and she hesitated. Anyway, I don't know if he would be amenable to a lot of the interventions that I've read about, but now I feel like I should educate myself on this whole range of therapies to see if any seem viable for him.

 

[InsaneCdn]

Yes, start treating him like an Aspie and see what happens... you might be surprised.
It's possible to be "almost Aspie"... not quite registering on enough points to qualify for a diagnosis, but definitely having traits - and the traits respond best to being treated like an Aspie.

Sometimes... if the kid is fairly bright, and not too far into the Aspie spectrum, even a psychiatrist can miss it if they are not really a specialist with Aspies. The kid can even "fake it" for testing... and skew the results.

 

[isis]

InsaneCdn: Here I am replying to you in two different places. I don't know how to 'treat him like an aspie'. There is such a marass online, difficult to wade through (I will over time, but meanwhile...). Where do you recommend I look first to start to try and understand how to treat him like an aspie?
I had a dear friend who died this summer of cancer; she and I used to talk a lot because she was stepmom to two boys, both difficult children, one depressed one asperger's that no one in the family diagnosed or tried to diagnose until she came into the family. Even after diagnosis her husband never fully bought into the aspie despite all of the obvious overwelming evidence (and psychiatric diagnosis by more than one aspie specialist). Anyway, she parented him for 12 years, when she died he was 22. She also never thought my son has asperger's. I sure wish I could tap her right now. But it is striking how many sxs of aspie people are describing on this board that fit him. He without question has severe anxiety. And he has no friends really.
Thanks

 

[HaoZi]

Start with anything by Tony Attwood, then pick up the books he mentions in his books.

ETA: The Explosive Child by Ross Greene is helpful for most kids like ours, including Aspies.

 

[buddy]

I agree, Tony A is a great start! And I agree, he may not meet criteria for aspergers but if you're seeing similarities that is the ticket! Psychiatrists and psychiatrists ... even tdocs are not very hands on educated about what really works for these guys. I can tell you from many many kiddos, my view on this has grown and I truly (well honestly, we.have a couple of amazing teachers who have ebd certification and autism specialty certs. and use gentle, skill based teaching for all the kids, no more point sheets etc. , they influenced me a lot) truly believe it's worth the effort. Many of these things can just happen, expect increase in neg behavior until its routine. Things like visual schedules don't have to be weird....they can now be part of smart phone or ipad etc. Technology. Teachers can use the post its for EVERYONE then its no biggie. I remember one second grade gen ed teacher saying she wished in college....the gen ed program was taught to just teach the way we were.showing her for one.kiddo, for all kids, because lots of those "sp.ed.almost" kids benefitted so.much. she thought everyone was doing better once she made the effort.
in my humble opinion what does it hurt?

 

[InsaneCdn]

One of the key indicators for a possible Aspie diagnosis is difficulty forming and maintaining normal peer relationships.
And... not all Aspies have Anxiety, but a lot do.

Look for books by John Elder Robinson. "Be Different" is for parents and teachers, in particular. But any of his books are a good look into how an Aspie thinks, and how and why they behave the way they do (which is directly tied to how they think).

For example: Assume he takes everything totally literally. This gives kids a major problem with the most stupid things... like math word problems. If there is any ambiguity at all, they will see THAT in a different light than a neurotypical kid will... and most teachers will have no idea they "said" that (but they did).

Aspies need structure. They respond to positive teaching methods, but usually not to punishment.

That's just a couple of ideas off the top of my head.