My turn for difficult child-related lingerie issues!

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by gcvmom, Nov 28, 2007.

  1. gcvmom

    gcvmom Here we go again!

    difficult child 1 has been very secretive lately, walking by with a look on his face like he's up to something, then locking himself in his room, getting upset if I go in his room, stuff like that. When I ask him what he's doing in there, he says he's "changing clothes". I thought maybe he was doing something most teenage boys discover early on in puberty... :smile:

    Well, apparently, he WAS changing clothes. He's been putting on my bra and underwear (both clean)!!! husband discovered them on him last night when he gave him a big hug. He just told him to take them off and go back to bed. I think husband was more upset about it than I was -- I actually laughed when he told me. I haven't confronted difficult child 1 about it yet, and not even sure if I will at this point. I'll probably just watch to see if it continues to happen and then we'll have to talk about it.

    I guess this is one of those awkward parenting moments many of you have already had the joy of going through! :nonono:
  2. Big Bad Kitty

    Big Bad Kitty lolcat

    You know, I wonder if this is just something where they want to just see what it is like? See what they are missing?

    I know that when I was 11-ish, I saw a jockstrap and cup for the first time, and I was ALL about how that thing worked.
  3. gcvmom

    gcvmom Here we go again!

    That's what I'm hoping, too -- that it's just a matter of a passing curiosity. (Fingers crossed, toes crossed, rattle beads...)
  4. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I personally (and this is just my opinion) would be more concerned. It isn't the norm that boys near teen age years dress like women, especially if he seems to be doing it often. None of my grown boys (nor my teenage son) have ever put on woman's underwear. I'd get him to a Psychiatrist fast to see what's going on--if it's something deeper than curiosity. I think it has more meaning than that--it would be like if I wanted to wear man's underwear... I would take it very seriously and want to nip it in the bud, whatever it is. JMO
  5. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    I think this would be a definite Excedrine moment for me. And a Martini moment. And a Calgon moment.

    I have to admit, my brothers and M never went through this.

    Other than that, I don't have a clue. But, I do think that you dealt with it very well. It's not going to hurt anyone right this very second. Take your time and figure out what it means.
  6. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    If difficult child was a much younger child, I think I'd be less concerned. But being a teen, I have to be honest, I would be worried.

    My brothers, male cousins, nephews, nor T ever went thru this. (by the way there are alot of difficult children in there lol)

    I think you've handled it well. No sense in over reacting to the situation. But if it were one of my kids I'd have them in a psychiatrists office faster than they could blink. I'd want to Know what was behind this behavior be it "curiosity" or what.

  7. Steely

    Steely Active Member

    As I have mentioned in other related posts, my difficult child has done similar, weird, unmentionable stuff. I freaked out, took him to psychiatrists that were specialized in this area, read a million things about it, and succeeding in stressing myself out to the thousandth degree, and embarrassing difficult child to the millionth. I don't know, what will happen, or become of his issues.......but I have resolved that this is part of the miswiring in his brain, rather than a deep rooted, unresolved, issue. Perhaps he will always have these, umm, issues - I don't know - but I know me freaking out just raised my blood pressure - and I am pretty sure that talking to the "experts" helped him little as well.

    I guess it is how you really want to define what is at the root of these kind of issues. Are our kids frontal lobes just mis-wired which makes sexuality confusing and mixed up for them? Or do our kids have some deep rooted issues that are manifesting themselves in aberrant sexual behavior. Most psychotherapists will say the latter is true - I am going out on a limb and saying, based in part on how many posts we get on this board about this - that it has to do with a chemical or neurological imbalance.

    None the less.........HUGS........and do what you think is best.
  8. Be it harmless curiosity or potential sexual orientation, they are who they are. Makes the world more interesting, I say. Then again, our boys have alot going against them in this world and adding this one to the plate might just be too overwhelming for them now. I am confident they will all find their way, it might not be the way you want it but it will be what feels right for them.
  9. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    alongfortheride, that is what I was about to say. By now, he is who he is. You can't "nip in the bud" anything to do with sexual orientation, other than idle curiosity and experimentation. Most people are locked into their sexual preferences before birth. Some are locked into being more flexible, but generally people are locked into being straight, or gay, or ambivalent. Degree of intensity is something I'm less sure about (in terms of when it develops) but I think it also is connected to prenatal brain development.

    I think you handled it well - they were not HIS undies, after all, but yours, so of course he has to take them off and go to bed - but I would be asking him questions as to why he wanted to do this. if it's idle curiosity (such as hearing other kids at school talking about older sisters getting their first bra, or something) then let him ask more directly and talk about it more openly. Who knows? Maybe he is going to grow up to be a heterosexual bra designer - what woman wouldn't love being married to a bloke who can make her look good and feel even better? Here in Sydney, we actually have a young man who has done his exams and qualified as a bra fitter, he works in an inner city department store and, we're told, really loves the job!

    There is very little in this world that can't be fixed by some open communication. Meanwhile, give husband a cup of tea, a Bex and a good lie down (or is that reference too British?).

  10. ML

    ML Guest

    Wow! This is something I can weigh in on. My son is on both the autistic spectrum and the spectrum of male/female. When he was 5 he told me he would have preferred being a girl. He's always enjoyed dressing up and acting. He is more emotionally sensitive, relates mostly to girls, has all girl friends, warms up and relates to them. Sure, all of his caretakers have been female so there is a part of that there. But it's more. I've made myself crazy with this. I think I'm closer to acceptance now. I joined a group of moms that deal with this too and I found, as in his Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) spectrum, he is on the "high" side (if that's a right word); meaning he doesn't have it to an extreme degree. Some of these kids are so young! Yes, it's hardwired into their brains in the womb. One of the docs even said there is some kind of tie in with Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) (still searching that one). My son told me he likes wearing dresses sometimes because the fabric is so soft (tactile sensory stuff). He hasn't been dressing up in several months so I'm hoping that by allowing him his freedome of expression it's not going to be something he does in secret later (fingers crossed).

    We start counseling in January for many of our life issues, this being just one of them.

    I have felt rather isolated with this one. I even was afraid to talk much about it here because fear of reactions. My son is aware of others' opinions and reactions to the nth degree so he's learned how to appear normal pretty well. No one would ever guess he was on either spectrum when they met him. He just presents as very shy. I don't want to be different any more than my son does. But God made us who we are and gave us these challenges for a reason I believe.

    Love him.
  11. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    I wouldn't get too uptight --yet--because you have to remember that these kids are emotionally immature. His REAL age isn't 11--it's probably much younger. So, now that his dad calmly handled it and told him to take it off, maybe that's enough.
    If you embarrass him too much, you may make it one of those tempting things he's not supposed to do, which will make him want to do it more.
    Give it time.
    And I like the idea of a martini and Calgon bath, myself. :)
  12. Fran

    Fran Former desparate mom

    Dealing with sexuality makes most adults uncomfortable but when it has to do with our own kids, it heightens the emotional response. If a teen has different sexual experiences than what we have had, then we don't know if this is a good thing or a bad thing. We just don't know.

    I'm sure a lot of the people who know their relatives/children didn't do such a thing probably don't really know and truthfully shouldn't know. It's an area that is as personal and as private as it gets. If the conversation with him about the why's and what are discussed in a matter of fact way you may be able to get to the root or his interest. If it pushes red flags then you may want to pursue it. If the worst he does is wear cross gender undies then it's not a bad thing but if this is another step into a dangerous or abnormal behavior you may want to pursue professional help.

    It's worrisome because it's probably outside most of our experiences but our anxiety doesn't mean he is a deviant of some sort.

    Lots of "regular" he man guys are mean, deviant and a percentage could be transgender. No one sees into others lives accurately.

    Give the teen a safe place to share his concerns or his preferences. You don't want to alienate him any more than our difficult child's already can be.

    Hugs. I know the idea of an excedrin and a martini may be the best way to start.LOL(just joking)

    Keep us informed of how things go. It can be very helpful to many who suffer with concern but aren't as forthcoming. Thanks.
  13. GoingNorth

    GoingNorth Crazy Cat Lady

    I don't post much anymore due to feeling I haven't much to contribute, but I had to respond to this.

    I'm on the spectrum and also bipolar. I am also a cross dresser. Not because I am gender confused: I consider myself to be female--anatomy is undeniable. It's a fact of biology.

    I was also a partner in a relationship with a male for over twenty years. That relationship ended with the death of my spouse.

    I don't cross dress because I get some sexual thrill out of it, but rather because I simply find men's clothing to be more comfortable.

    Currently I am wearing a pair of men's pajama bottoms, a silky pair of boxer shorts (about to dig out my men's longies as it is bitter cold up here in the northwoods), a men's sweatshirt with a men's flannel shirt over it, and even men's slippers...

    Why? I have no idea. All I know is that this is how I feel comfortable dressing. Part of it might be my build.

    According to my mother (who is a girlie Aspie), I've NEVER tolerated frills and ruffles, even as an infant. I've worn makeup exactly once in my life and that was for my wedding. I made it through the reception all the while wanting to rip my face off.

    Frankly, I don't see this as reason to freak out. I even find (sadly) amusing that many women cross-dress without problem, when it is considered to be such a big deal in men. In an ideal world, given anatomy, it probably makes more sense for the guys to wear skirts.

    Let what is, be. If the young man is otherwise doing well, let it be. What sort of underwear he likes is his business. My only objection would be that he is borrowing yours. I know that I'd be a bit skeeved by ANYONE borrowing my boxer shorts.

  14. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    It is OK for women to wear trousers, but much less acceptable for men to wear skirts. That's a social thing. But our brains don't recognise the social thing, when it comes to how we're wired.

    A lot of women wear clothing which only fifty years ago was considered exclusively male. Temple Grandin doesn't like wearing skirts; she can if she has to, but has to work up to it over a period of weeks, and since a lot of her work is around cattle and skirts are less practical, it's easier for her to stick with trousers.

    I tend to live in jeans, but I will also happily wear a skirt, as long as it's practical. I used to work with men; I wore jeans or overalls almost all the time.

    A suggestion for those trying to accommodate these preferences but stay within the bounds of social acceptability - there is a lot of clothing which is acceptable, which is gender-ambiguous. A cross-dressing (male) flatmate I used to have took advantage of his Scottish heritage and wore a kilt. At home around me, he would sometimes go for the whole female cross dressing bit, he borrowed some of my more feminine blouses and I helped him with makeup. His girlfriend, when she found out, was furious with me and saw me as a threat, even though I was already engaged to husband at the time. It was just one of many mistakes I felt she made, in that relationship. But the kilt - a good idea. And you don't have to be a Scot, you just need to be interested in highland dance, bagpipe bands etc. to have the perfect excuse.

    And the texture - a bloke can always have the softer fabrics if he wants to. I hunted around and found some pure silk boxer shorts for my men, as a treat. I don't think difficult child 1 ever took his off, except on those rare occasions when he bathed.
    difficult child 3's best friend, just turned 10, has a very loving indulgent mother. I don't think there is anything of the cross-dresser in the boy, but he is high-functioning autistic and as such, fussy about certain textures. They bought some silky fabric (the boy chose it by the feel, and the colour - it's a lovely, masculine olive green) and had it made into pyjamas for the lad. He lives in these pyjamas, I saw him yesterday afternoon, I think he must have got into his pyjamas as soon as he got home from school. His mother says he looks like Hugh Hefner.

    Sometimes trousers are practical. Sometimes skirts are practical. After all, the Scots wore kilts because they were very practical, you didn't have to waste time unbuttoning anything to go to the bathroom. In battle, they just kept on swinging the claymore... the kilt pin came in handy for sailors high in the ship's rigging, to pin the kilt between their legs so as not to offend (or excite?) any female passengers down below.
    And nobody could have called William Wallace a girl. Not twice, at any rate.

    easy child's BF1 has problems with texture, the fabric of his clothing has to be very soft or it chafes his skin badly. It's getting to the point where he will have to have his shirts made for him, from fabric of his choosing.

    It's much easier these days to satisfy a need for certain fabric textures, and still not stand out too much. difficult child 3 loves the feel of towelling, so I made a pair of shorts for him out of an old towel. He wears these shorts a lot in summer, especially after we've been swimming.
    BF2 was given a very soft, plush bathrobe and he is wearing it as I type this even though it's the middle of the day here. He likes the feel of it. I don't blame him. I want one too.

    I do think being attracted to various textures is perhaps more common that we realise. Unless it's just the Marg household, of course! But we are much more free to indulge this in this day and age, than in previous years.

    I still remember the outrage when a teenage girl wore trousers to church. Now, in our church, you can wear shorts, t-shirt, swimsuit, bare feet - whatever. The rule is to rinse your feet at the door, if you have bare feet (a lot of sand, with a church on the beach).

    Times have changed!

  15. GoingNorth

    GoingNorth Crazy Cat Lady I wish I could sew (can't afford them)

    I love silk and fleecy and flannel things. If I don't have to go out, I don't even go for the jeans. I can't stand skirts or dresses. The flapping around my legs drives me mad.

    Don't even talk about hose of any kind. The only type of sox I will wear are the simple men's crew sox and only one brand that has the toe seam in the 'right place'.

    I do wear women's shoes when I can find them narrow enough and without any type of seams that rub my feet. Most of the time I wear men's shoes (I wear a US size ten or European size 42)with enough foam pads in them to take up the extra width and height.
  16. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    I've got tiny feet, difficult to fit. I go barefoot most of the time, or thongs (what we Aussies call flip-flops). Ugg boots in winter.

    As for sewing - if the pattern is simple, it's easy to sew. It's also inexpensive to have it made up. You could even find a friend who likes to sew but doesn't like to do something that you do well (like cook) and exchange favours. If she sews for you, you cook her a casserole, for example.

    I'm about to make myself a reversible skirt, as soon as I can beat a path to the sewing machine. It's in the spare room where easy child 2/difficult child 2 & BF2 have set up house. I wouldn't mind so much, but her room is a mess also, I can't even move the sewing machine into there. Oh well, they're trying to find a flat to move into as soon as possible, plus I think they're both working tomorrow so I'll get in then.

    Sewing your own stuff is good. And it can be really easy.

  17. GoingNorth

    GoingNorth Crazy Cat Lady

    Pfooey! Just typed a long post and lost it. We call those sandals "flipflops" over here as well. "Thongs" are a sort of women's underwear vulgarly referred to as B.utt floss.

    I've tried sewing. My mother sews very well, both by hand and with a machine. I just don't "get it". I can put up a fallen hem or sew a button back on, but that is as far as it goes.

    In the past I've traded handknitting for various things, as well as cooking.

    husband was a profession chef in his civilian years and also made custom collectors' knives as a hobby. He traded a damascene knife for our wedding bands, in fact.

    Funny. I wear Uggs as well, both my slippers and my winter boots, though I suspect my winter boots, which are Ugg "pacs", are considerably heavier than what you wear. I hope they are cheaper by you than what I pay for mine.

    But, you can't complain about a pair of boots lasting nearly ten years, I guess...and I LOVE the feel of shearling
  18. Marg's Man

    Marg's Man Member

    This getting to the point where the original thread has drifted. In another forum I would be starting a new thread but I don't know how here.

    Marg phrased her post badly (unusual).
    What we Aussies call thongs is footwear and has been forever. When then buttock flossing underwear came in we also called THAT thongs. Now you just have to get the meaning from the context - although it DOES make for some good (if slightly 'off' jokes).

    Don't get us started on Uggs. About 40 years ago a small shoe company over here had a glut of sheepskins they didn't know what to do with. So they made a warm boot out them with the wool on the inside. They called them "Uggs" because they looked like something a cave man might wear. They caught on - BIG TIME. Marg's worn them in winter for as long as I've known her (35 years now).

    About 5-10 years ago a US company thought it was a good idea and trademarked the name worldwide and sent our little company a 'cease and desist' letter. They claimed they had the genuine item when all they really had was the name. Apparently they are not even made in the US but elsewhere (I could be wrong about this detail)

    It took a while (don't all legal matters?) but it was eventually thrown out on the grounds that, in Australia, the term was in common usage and could not be trademarked. Australian companies still cannot call them Ugg elsewhere but if you want a GENUINE Ugg boot - buy an Aussie pair of sheepskin boots made in Australia!
  19. GoingNorth

    GoingNorth Crazy Cat Lady

    MM...sorry about that. I STILL like my slippers and boots, but I honestly thought they were made in Australia.

    It just made sense to me because the raising of sheep is such a large part of the Australian livestock economy (or am I wrong about that?), or at least lamb is a lot cheaper on your side of the pond.
  20. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    I believe our uggs are cheaper, depending on the quality of the workmanship. Some places just make them for indoor use - it was originally surfies who popularised these in the 70s. My good knee-length black ones cost about A$160 and I wear them everywhere. They still last several years. My girls wear their mostly indoors and their last ten years or more. If you're stocking up on uggs for the family it's almost worth a plane trip Down Under to get them.

    I buy the somewhat better made ones with a decent rubber sole, then Scotchguard them so they can cope with getting wet. Still not waterproof, though. If they get wet you have to dry them cool, not let them get hot at all or they turn into brittle cardboard.

    But these days there are synthetic ones which you would swear is wool, until you begin to sweat in them. Yet another issue for those with Sensory Integration Disorder (SID) issues (to try to bring us back to the original thread).

    I like the way they hug my leg (maybe it's a bit like easy child 2/difficult child 2 insisting on wearing laced corsets - she says it's like wearing a hug). They are comfortable (for me) and no seams or anything to rub. And feet are ALWAYS warm, even if the uggs are wet and I'm standing in snow.

    Also they're unisex - another bonus, considering what we were originally talking about.
    But it's summer here now, so thongs it is. On my feet. Or nothing. Even better!