OK so I'm new to this forum because my daughter who is 10 is becoming more then hard to handle. I brought her to a therapist for the first time a year ago but the therapist saw her 3 times and said she didn't think there was anything wrong, and gave me the name of a couple of parent support groups. My daughter's attitude is not getting better it's getting worse. She does not get along with other girls at all and now she hit a girl on the bus yesturday because the girl said something that embarrased her. I am getting phone calls from other parents complaining about her. She always gave us a hard time at home about following the rules and she does not take well to being sent to her room. We have tried taking things away and grounding her but nothing works. My son is 8 and had no problems getting along with others and doing what he is told. I am really losing my mind, I can't sleep and I cry all the time thinking about this because I know it could get alot worse as she gets older. I am in the process of calling another therapist because I don't know whate else to do...
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- Thread starter danni159
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confuzzled
Member
(((hugs)))
mine is 10 too...its a tough age these days. to me, it feels like the new 20, when they really should still be playing with dolls, but according to mine, what do i know, lol. i empathize with them--life IS rough for them.
go with your gut---it sounds like a good plan to try a new therapist. hope you find a good one who hears your concerns and helps with them.
maybe the school can be of help if her issues impact her education.
i'm sure others will be along shortly with questions for you--there is a lot of help and support here.
mine is 10 too...its a tough age these days. to me, it feels like the new 20, when they really should still be playing with dolls, but according to mine, what do i know, lol. i empathize with them--life IS rough for them.
go with your gut---it sounds like a good plan to try a new therapist. hope you find a good one who hears your concerns and helps with them.
maybe the school can be of help if her issues impact her education.
i'm sure others will be along shortly with questions for you--there is a lot of help and support here.
confuzzled
Member
oh, yea....
about the grounding part....just my .02, disregard if it isnt useful to you.
find her "currency". everyone has something thats important to them. if she could care less about being sent to her room, then its really not an effective punishment anyway. when we've needed to punish, we take away things most people would think are odd....i've literally taken away drawing materials as a punishment, or removed the "book series" of the week as punishment, and so on. mine could care less about being forced to stay in, and even less so about being banished to her room (theres plenty to do there!). but she cares immensely about not having markers to work on her comics, or read whatever. i have to find something of importance *to her* to make my point.
and i dont punish for ridiculous lengths of time for most offenses--she did recently have one MAJOR offense that got her the mother of all punishments of just about everything for a whole week, but thats rare. i try to go no more than a day or two....because mine tends to not even make the connection after a while. (i walk a very fine line with things that need discipline but happen in school....she's on the immature side to realize that if she puts her feet on the desk at 9am that the afterschool punishment from me has anything to do with 9am, Know what I mean?? for the most part, if i can, i let school discipline so the consequences are a direct result of the offense, if that made ANY sense!)
i have to make it count.
and she gets it, most of the time. she's not perfect even in typical behavior, and does need discipline. its taken a while for me to figure out what works for US.
about the grounding part....just my .02, disregard if it isnt useful to you.
find her "currency". everyone has something thats important to them. if she could care less about being sent to her room, then its really not an effective punishment anyway. when we've needed to punish, we take away things most people would think are odd....i've literally taken away drawing materials as a punishment, or removed the "book series" of the week as punishment, and so on. mine could care less about being forced to stay in, and even less so about being banished to her room (theres plenty to do there!). but she cares immensely about not having markers to work on her comics, or read whatever. i have to find something of importance *to her* to make my point.
and i dont punish for ridiculous lengths of time for most offenses--she did recently have one MAJOR offense that got her the mother of all punishments of just about everything for a whole week, but thats rare. i try to go no more than a day or two....because mine tends to not even make the connection after a while. (i walk a very fine line with things that need discipline but happen in school....she's on the immature side to realize that if she puts her feet on the desk at 9am that the afterschool punishment from me has anything to do with 9am, Know what I mean?? for the most part, if i can, i let school discipline so the consequences are a direct result of the offense, if that made ANY sense!)
i have to make it count.
and she gets it, most of the time. she's not perfect even in typical behavior, and does need discipline. its taken a while for me to figure out what works for US.
nvts
Active Member
complex, quirky, smart, artistic, mood disorder, depression, anxiety, spectrum flavor,
Hi! What's spectrum flavor? Have you looked into Aspergers? She sounds exactly like my 8 year old, who's about ready to drive me nuts!!!! Has she had a neuropsychologist? It could explain why the adhd medications didn't do it for her.
Just a quick thought!
Beth
Hi! What's spectrum flavor? Have you looked into Aspergers? She sounds exactly like my 8 year old, who's about ready to drive me nuts!!!! Has she had a neuropsychologist? It could explain why the adhd medications didn't do it for her.
Just a quick thought!
Beth
M
ML
Guest
Welcome! Deep breaths. Try not to go to the future, when she gets older, "what if" place. It is a dark dark place and we don't belong there. Try to stay in the present and take it one step at a time. You have found a great group of parents here who are going through it too. Yes, try another therapist. Keep searching until you find the answers that resonate with your mommy instincts. You can always trust them. Glad you found us but sorry you had to. ML
Allan-Matlem
Active Member
Hi,
check the sites http://thinkkids.org http://livesinthebalance.org for info and video clips on CPS collaborative problem solving. The reality is that we have very little power or control on others - when we step back and try to build a relationship helping our kids to learn to trust us to support them , we are able to work with them. There is no magic bullet , plenty of nurturing oneself , plenty of converations, perspective taking, addressing the concerns of both child and parent in a collaborative way. The way to go is just to talk with your kid , or rather let her speak and we listen directing the conversation with dialog questions. Not easy , CPS is a process , not a technique
Allan
check the sites http://thinkkids.org http://livesinthebalance.org for info and video clips on CPS collaborative problem solving. The reality is that we have very little power or control on others - when we step back and try to build a relationship helping our kids to learn to trust us to support them , we are able to work with them. There is no magic bullet , plenty of nurturing oneself , plenty of converations, perspective taking, addressing the concerns of both child and parent in a collaborative way. The way to go is just to talk with your kid , or rather let her speak and we listen directing the conversation with dialog questions. Not easy , CPS is a process , not a technique
Allan
confuzzled
Member
beth---its tongue in cheek. she's got one foot firmly planted on the spectum. in 10 years, we've never had a conclusive diagnosis--any of the specialists she's seen have all had differing opinions on the subject. (school personnel, various therapists, 4 psychiatrists, 1 neuro, 1 neuropsychologist, various pediatrician's incl. developmental peds, and so on).
for a very long time, the question has been, "what we we have done differently?" with the formal label, and the answer is nothing. the label wouldnt have changed a thing (like, she wouldnt have better services, or a different approach or anything like that--i instinctively HAD all appropriate interventions in place, regardless of what diagnosis she was)
she would be one of the "better identified", and the kind of kid that has change the autism numbers in my state from 1:150 to 1:108...
the one thing we all DO agree on is that its not her main problem right now, and that we need to stablize the mood disorder to sort out what "spectrum" issues are still impacting her, and deal accordingly.
and yes, she's slated for neuropsychologist testing--i had to cancel when she came undone...probably next month.....and, depending on what that testing shows, its the end of the line. she either is, or isnt on the spectrum, period. but if she isn't, so help me, i never want to hear another word about it--the days of "maybes" are long over for her.
I am the mother of a 16 year old daughter that has been diagnosed with severe depression and ODD and I am new to this forum. I seen Danni159's posting, it sounded all too familiar and thought I'd share my story.
We live in a nice suburb in St. Paul/Mpls area. My husband and I have been very happily married for 20 years and have a wonderful relationship. Therefore, a dysfunctional home setting with parental fighting is not a factor. As parenting goes, I believe we have been good parents. We are not drug addicts or alcoholics and have been very hands on open parents. Everything we do, we do as a family.
At first, we thought our daughter was just really strong willed and rebellious. I remember dreading evenings around our house because it was always something with her. It really didn't matter what it was. I really don't remember when it started but, do know that the older she got, the worse it got. Her grades started falling, with the promise she would do better until she was eventually failing all but one class, lying became an every day thing and the arguing at home increased.
We took away privileges which included major school dances, grounding from friend activity and sending her to her room. Nothing worked! One night the arguing escalated into "in your face" confrontation. We got the I hate living here and taunts to strike her with her telling her dad she wished he would hit her so she could leave our house. Nothing could be more painful to hear as a parent. She was grounded to her room. That night, she took an over dose of Ibuprofen and scratched her arm with a screw she dug out of the wall. I frantically took her to hospital and she was admitted to an adolescent crisis center.
My husband and I went to all the recommended therapy appointments, supported her and weekly therapy became part of our weekly routine when she got out. It was less than 2 months after that that we confronted her about a lie. Of course, as parents, we were angry. I guess when you have a child that has ODD, your never suppose to show anger. Believe me, it is very frustrating. We took the necessary time out as recommended by the therapist and, our daughter again scratched her arms hard enough to draw blood. We again readmitted her to the crisis center and she was placed in an adolescent resident program in Eau Claire, WI. She has been there now for over 2 months.
She was coming home for week end home visits. Last week end was unusually busy and, for reasons unknown to us, she made phone calls that were not approved by the agreed home contract and without us even knowing she made the phone calls, therefore, we did not get angry or anything, she proceeded to drink Vodka that was in our home. Nothing seems to be working. My husband and I have always expressed our love for her. I try to figure it out and run it over and over in my head. We also have an 11 year old son. I don't cry when he's around. We try to maintain some kind of normal home life for him.
Danni 159, I am not a professional. However, I can tell you that through our experience. No punishment worked. We took away everything that would make a difference and, it didn't matter. I would watch this very closely and seek advice from your pediatrician and/or other professionals and recommend looking at what ODD is and the symptoms to watch for. The sooner you get help for these behaviors, the better.
Thanks for listening!
We live in a nice suburb in St. Paul/Mpls area. My husband and I have been very happily married for 20 years and have a wonderful relationship. Therefore, a dysfunctional home setting with parental fighting is not a factor. As parenting goes, I believe we have been good parents. We are not drug addicts or alcoholics and have been very hands on open parents. Everything we do, we do as a family.
At first, we thought our daughter was just really strong willed and rebellious. I remember dreading evenings around our house because it was always something with her. It really didn't matter what it was. I really don't remember when it started but, do know that the older she got, the worse it got. Her grades started falling, with the promise she would do better until she was eventually failing all but one class, lying became an every day thing and the arguing at home increased.
We took away privileges which included major school dances, grounding from friend activity and sending her to her room. Nothing worked! One night the arguing escalated into "in your face" confrontation. We got the I hate living here and taunts to strike her with her telling her dad she wished he would hit her so she could leave our house. Nothing could be more painful to hear as a parent. She was grounded to her room. That night, she took an over dose of Ibuprofen and scratched her arm with a screw she dug out of the wall. I frantically took her to hospital and she was admitted to an adolescent crisis center.
My husband and I went to all the recommended therapy appointments, supported her and weekly therapy became part of our weekly routine when she got out. It was less than 2 months after that that we confronted her about a lie. Of course, as parents, we were angry. I guess when you have a child that has ODD, your never suppose to show anger. Believe me, it is very frustrating. We took the necessary time out as recommended by the therapist and, our daughter again scratched her arms hard enough to draw blood. We again readmitted her to the crisis center and she was placed in an adolescent resident program in Eau Claire, WI. She has been there now for over 2 months.
She was coming home for week end home visits. Last week end was unusually busy and, for reasons unknown to us, she made phone calls that were not approved by the agreed home contract and without us even knowing she made the phone calls, therefore, we did not get angry or anything, she proceeded to drink Vodka that was in our home. Nothing seems to be working. My husband and I have always expressed our love for her. I try to figure it out and run it over and over in my head. We also have an 11 year old son. I don't cry when he's around. We try to maintain some kind of normal home life for him.
Danni 159, I am not a professional. However, I can tell you that through our experience. No punishment worked. We took away everything that would make a difference and, it didn't matter. I would watch this very closely and seek advice from your pediatrician and/or other professionals and recommend looking at what ODD is and the symptoms to watch for. The sooner you get help for these behaviors, the better.
Thanks for listening!
Hi Danni and Neaners! Welcome and I'm glad you found us.
Danni - sometimes it takes a while to find a therapist who will really hear what you're saying. For the first several years as we tried to get help for our son, I heard all about our parenting skills (or lack thereof), my depression (gee, my kid is breaking windows out of my house, ya' think I might be depressed??), or the "impact of having a sibling with- a disability" (oh puleez - so not applicable in our situation). You may very well have to try a few out before you find one that is a match for your family, but they *are* out there. Having said that, I will also say that tuning up your parenting skills or joining a parent support group might not be a bad idea. *None* of us were prepared to raise a child with the degree of challenging behaviors that we deal with. Dr. Spock (ok, I'm showing my age
) just isn't going to cut it. When I realized that negative reinforcement (punishment) was a good thing in my son's eyes, and positive reinforcement (rewards for good behavior) only provoked negative behaviors.... well, I was beyond stumped. Where do you go from there? Between this board and an outstanding Licensed Clinical Social Worker (LCSW), we worked on consistency (I mean *real* consistency), not showing an emotional response to my son's behaviors (any emotion from me, especially anger or disappointment, was like gasoline on his fire), and prioritizing which behaviors most needed to be addressed. I would highly recommend "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene, especially to help with that last goal. I'm not a big self-help book fan, but this book was extremely helpful.
In the meantime, it sounds like it might be time for a psychological or neuropsychologist evaluation. What is driving her anger and defiance? A mood disorder, learning disability, developmental disability? I also echo busywend's questions about school.
Neaners - it sure does sound like you have been thru the wringer with your daughter. It is incredibly frustrating, demoralizing, heartbreaking. How is your daughter doing in the Residential Treatment Center (RTC) program? Do you think she's still honeymooning there, or has she started to show them similar behaviors? I wish I had words of wisdom for you... from my perspective now, with an 18 yo who still doesn't "get it", it's become a wait and watch situation, praying that he doesn't do irreparable damage to himself and that he figures it out soon. The kids who are really resistant to treatment, to being invested in their own lives and well-being... it's just awful as a parent to not be able to "fix" things. You do sound like you're doing okay under the circumstances (it's all relative ). What strategies have you and your husband used to stay strong?
Glad you found us and welcome!
Danni - sometimes it takes a while to find a therapist who will really hear what you're saying. For the first several years as we tried to get help for our son, I heard all about our parenting skills (or lack thereof), my depression (gee, my kid is breaking windows out of my house, ya' think I might be depressed??), or the "impact of having a sibling with- a disability" (oh puleez - so not applicable in our situation). You may very well have to try a few out before you find one that is a match for your family, but they *are* out there. Having said that, I will also say that tuning up your parenting skills or joining a parent support group might not be a bad idea. *None* of us were prepared to raise a child with the degree of challenging behaviors that we deal with. Dr. Spock (ok, I'm showing my age
) just isn't going to cut it. When I realized that negative reinforcement (punishment) was a good thing in my son's eyes, and positive reinforcement (rewards for good behavior) only provoked negative behaviors.... well, I was beyond stumped. Where do you go from there? Between this board and an outstanding Licensed Clinical Social Worker (LCSW), we worked on consistency (I mean *real* consistency), not showing an emotional response to my son's behaviors (any emotion from me, especially anger or disappointment, was like gasoline on his fire), and prioritizing which behaviors most needed to be addressed. I would highly recommend "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene, especially to help with that last goal. I'm not a big self-help book fan, but this book was extremely helpful.In the meantime, it sounds like it might be time for a psychological or neuropsychologist evaluation. What is driving her anger and defiance? A mood disorder, learning disability, developmental disability? I also echo busywend's questions about school.
Neaners - it sure does sound like you have been thru the wringer with your daughter. It is incredibly frustrating, demoralizing, heartbreaking. How is your daughter doing in the Residential Treatment Center (RTC) program? Do you think she's still honeymooning there, or has she started to show them similar behaviors? I wish I had words of wisdom for you... from my perspective now, with an 18 yo who still doesn't "get it", it's become a wait and watch situation, praying that he doesn't do irreparable damage to himself and that he figures it out soon. The kids who are really resistant to treatment, to being invested in their own lives and well-being... it's just awful as a parent to not be able to "fix" things. You do sound like you're doing okay under the circumstances (it's all relative
). What strategies have you and your husband used to stay strong? Glad you found us and welcome!
TerryJ2
Well-Known Member
Welcome, Danni and Neaners.
I agree, that finding the right therapist is the best thing. Danni, this is going to be a long process, so put some plans in place and put your nose to the grindstone. There is no quick fix. More than anything, believe in yourself as a parent so that you do not continue to cry yourself to sleep at night. Find a support group (you found us! ) and your own therapist and get on medications if you have to, to deal with-all this. Go for walks, go to the gym, keep a journal, whatever works for you.
Neaners, did you ever get a satisfactory diagnosis for your daughter? Getting a good diagnosis and getting her to be medication compliant, and on a routine, is so important. It sounds like she's h*ll bend on self-destruction, and also, self medicating. But you already know that. I have no useful advice, just "welcome," and {{hugs}}.
I agree, that finding the right therapist is the best thing. Danni, this is going to be a long process, so put some plans in place and put your nose to the grindstone. There is no quick fix. More than anything, believe in yourself as a parent so that you do not continue to cry yourself to sleep at night. Find a support group (you found us!
) and your own therapist and get on medications if you have to, to deal with-all this. Go for walks, go to the gym, keep a journal, whatever works for you.Neaners, did you ever get a satisfactory diagnosis for your daughter? Getting a good diagnosis and getting her to be medication compliant, and on a routine, is so important. It sounds like she's h*ll bend on self-destruction, and also, self medicating. But you already know that. I have no useful advice, just "welcome," and {{hugs}}.
Thanks Terry and Sue,
Our daughter has been diagnosed with severe depression and ODD and is on Prozac (20 mg). The psychiatric evaluation we have received indicates she is antagonistic toward family with no real known reason. It also states that they question how much insight she has in regards to the problematic behaviors she has demonstrated in the past and the changes she needs to make, because her remarks seem to focus on the changes her family needs to make and she does not take accountability for her part. From past experiences, it seems that when she doesn't follow rules or lies, that is when she self harms and then puts the blame on us. When she's in a controlled setting, away from peers and outside influences, she does really well and we get along great. With that being said, she does well in the residency program and is a "model resident". It's like there's this dark personality underneath the sweetness and you don't know when it's going to come out. I do believe she is still in the honeymoon stage, is saying what she thinks she needs to to get out and has made no real progress. I spoke to her on the phone twice this week. I wanted to tell her I love her and am thinking abount her. It was a calm conversation. However, she hung up on me the first time when I wouldn't agree with what she wanted to hear. The second time I called, she talked to me but, I could feel anger in her tone. Her main concern was that she was afraid her dad would make her stay longer because of the behavior she displayed at her last home visit. Again, not taking accountablility for her own behavior. I feel like my husband is giving up. He doesn't want to see her for awhile or want to go to the therapy appts. I am the one that goes to every thearpy appointment.! He doesn't say how long of a break he wants to take and this worries me. He's thinking "the tough love method" is the way to go. I tell him that is not going to work (it hasn't thus far!) but, he is very stubborn. I believe it just adds fuel to the fire as negativity did with your son. At this point, I feel we are just stuck, with no real improvement with her treatment and now with my husband's disassociation, it feels like there's no end to this. Our next thearpy appointment. is wednesday. I should say mine and our daughter's, because my husband won't go. I am going to write things down before I go so I don't forget anything. Thanks for the book recommendation. I plan on reading it.
Our daughter has been diagnosed with severe depression and ODD and is on Prozac (20 mg). The psychiatric evaluation we have received indicates she is antagonistic toward family with no real known reason. It also states that they question how much insight she has in regards to the problematic behaviors she has demonstrated in the past and the changes she needs to make, because her remarks seem to focus on the changes her family needs to make and she does not take accountability for her part. From past experiences, it seems that when she doesn't follow rules or lies, that is when she self harms and then puts the blame on us. When she's in a controlled setting, away from peers and outside influences, she does really well and we get along great. With that being said, she does well in the residency program and is a "model resident". It's like there's this dark personality underneath the sweetness and you don't know when it's going to come out. I do believe she is still in the honeymoon stage, is saying what she thinks she needs to to get out and has made no real progress. I spoke to her on the phone twice this week. I wanted to tell her I love her and am thinking abount her. It was a calm conversation. However, she hung up on me the first time when I wouldn't agree with what she wanted to hear. The second time I called, she talked to me but, I could feel anger in her tone. Her main concern was that she was afraid her dad would make her stay longer because of the behavior she displayed at her last home visit. Again, not taking accountablility for her own behavior. I feel like my husband is giving up. He doesn't want to see her for awhile or want to go to the therapy appts. I am the one that goes to every thearpy appointment.! He doesn't say how long of a break he wants to take and this worries me. He's thinking "the tough love method" is the way to go. I tell him that is not going to work (it hasn't thus far!) but, he is very stubborn. I believe it just adds fuel to the fire as negativity did with your son. At this point, I feel we are just stuck, with no real improvement with her treatment and now with my husband's disassociation, it feels like there's no end to this. Our next thearpy appointment. is wednesday. I should say mine and our daughter's, because my husband won't go. I am going to write things down before I go so I don't forget anything. Thanks for the book recommendation. I plan on reading it.
