Not sure where to begin...

New Leaf

Well-Known Member
Okay dear I have to sign off and do some cleaning :vacuumsm:
I'll be back on later this evening.

You are going to be okay. Stay with us. More will come along and post.
Take care, I will check on you later........
leafy
:welcomecat:
 
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Lookingforthelight

Guest
Nature

It makes me incredibly sad to hear of your experiences but I 100% agree with you.

My mother in law & one sister in law know NOTHING of our struggles with princess and never will. These are two people who told my princess years ago that my husband & I were being too hard on her! Ummmm?! What?! I don't trust them at all and I know they both judge me because of their own messed up realities.

People can be cruel. And I've learned the people who constantly brag about their successes are hiding dark truths too.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Goung back ti borderline, most wont admit it or seek treatment. Thats the problem with having a personality disorder. They are erratic and do not sustain moods for long and most are very mean when angry, in a way other d cs arent. Thier meanness borders on cruelty and goes back and forth. You HAVE no choice but to set and stick to strong boundaries with a borderlines or you WILL repeatedly feel devestated and get hurt, even demolished by their ability to punish YOU if you dont do their bidding. But they will never ever agree they are sick and need intensive help if you let them walk on you. There is help, but it must be very specific and the mental health professional must understand borderline or it is a waste of time.

I am shocked at all the weekly money you have been spending on this worthless counselor. I would end it now. You need retirement money and this counselor has no clue what he is dealing with and you can not be told how the sessions go. She is of age and her privacy cant be breached. I dont think ANY therapy will help her if she doesnt see herself as a problem. She likely spends fifty minutes lying about herself and bashing YOU.

The best treatment for borderline must be entered into willingly by the patient or it wont work. It takes hard work for any borderline to change. The therapy is called dialectical behavioral therapy. Until this, borderlines were seen as untreatable. Even with DBT it depends on the will of the patient to admit she wants to stop being how she is and to want to change.

I dont know your daughter. If she is like most borderlines she will throw a fit if you suggest she may have it. Its up to you how you deal with it. Whatever else, however, understand that without extreme therapy and her hard work, she will probably remain emotionally unpredictable, cruel at times, needy and whiny at times and will never stay stable emotionally. She needs to learn how and that takes good therapy and her own hard work.

I wish you the best. Get your strong armor up and let any cruel words bounce off of your armor and keep your self respect and dignity. Be good to yourself and make sure you do the things you enjoy with those who are kind to you. Repel the drama...it is hers, not yours. Love yourself.

Lots and lots of hugs.
 
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Lookingforthelight

Guest
Somewhere, thank you for your insight. I feel sick as I read it because I can play back scenarios and see this behavior.

Princess would come home from sessions and look at me with sympathy on her face and say "mom, I understand your cup is very full. And I can't imagine how hard it must be to see your daughter grow up and have to let go. But I'm fine, and it'll be easier if we let go together". She has actually said this more than once to me. Barf.

So, in other words, her sessions were about ME and MY issues.

So when I tell her I'm letting go, she freaks out! She wants me to let go of disciplining her, having boundaries, holding her accountable. What she doesn't want me to let go of is me being a punching bag and her bank machine.

My husband has complained for 6 months about her therapist! "She always comes home arrogant with an inflated ego". Do you think I've listened? Nope. Trust the process I say...boy how wrong I was.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Looking, if she is borderline, and she sure has many traits, they can manipulate the arabs into buying sand. But you have to be careful with therapists anyway. My dsughters therapist, while daughter was using drugs, told us that her therapist said we needed to trust her more. Excuse me??? She stole, lied all the time and cut school (saying the school attendance people messed up) and therapist told her we should TRUST her more???? How????
She wanted to stop going and I was done taking her to see him anyway. She used him to make her drug abuse OUR problem. I can think of better ways to spend our little money.
My daughter quit drugs on her own without a therapist. After that experience I decided to pay for a therspist to help myself, not her. I needed it, I was stressed to the max I told the truth and I learned how to best deal with the intense fear I felt for my daughter.
You can not do anything to fix your daughter or anyone on earth except for you. But you can and should take care of you and maybe see your own therapist to learn how to cope with a very difficult daughter. You are a good person and deserve to help yourself.

Wishing you better things from this day forward...big hugs.
 
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Lookingforthelight

Guest
Oh boy. I heard that too! Trust her more, work together to build trust. Why? I don't lie, abuse or steal from the princess? Why did I have to work on it?

Anyways, I'm taking your advice. I need help to get through this and I need tools to cope. I can only help myself going forward.

Thank you for sharing your experiences. It helps me to see things as they actually are.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Good!!!! Your eight year old deserves a happy, stable mom. So often our other kids get less attention than our difficult ones, no?
You have a peaceful serene night. You did not cause your older daughters problems. Dare I guess that perhaps she inherited some bad DNA from your ex? This is common. Often we pick better the second time. I know I did.
 
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Lookingforthelight

Guest
Haha! I laughed about choosing better the second time around. So true!

Princess texted me. Asking for clothes. So I will spend tonight & tomorrow packing up her things and my husband will drop them off to her. I was neutral and to the point. I then got a text asking if we were ever going to talk. And I said "not right now, no". This is new for me and so hard. I think she's still believing I will eventually come around.

Nope. I'm more determined than ever to help her by not helping her but I'm even more hopeful for myself and the rest of my family. Thank you for being my army.
 

New Leaf

Well-Known Member
New beginnings for all of you.
It is hard, but you are doing the best thing for your daughter and your family.
This is loving detachment and it is on your terms. When you feel comfortable, you will have contact with her, she is your daughter. Take the time you need to heal and rebuild. You are entitled to have peace of mind and heart. She will most likely be very surprised at your stand, but will also learn a valuable lesson that you are not a rug to be tread upon.
I over helped far to many times with my two and ended up prolonging the problem for all of us.
Keep working on building yourself up dear and post as much as you can.
(((Hugs)))
leafy
 

Nature

Active Member
I'm so proud of you for and happy after reading your most recent post - good for you. You've earned your warrior armour for sure! It shines bright and is a beacon of light in what would otherwise be dark days.

:group-hug:
 

InsaneCdn

Well-Known Member
Had I known this sooner, I would've gotten her proper help.

I guess my frustration towards her counsellor has to do with the fact my kid has been honest about how self destructive she is, the remorse she feels turns to anger, but she'll keep doing the same old thing over & over. She cannot be alone ever and is terrified of losing people, even the bad people in her life. I'm just frustrated as a mom that I've tried to get her help...and it hasn't helped.

Looking - welcome to the club. Unfortunately, the whole mental health system is skewed against us and against our kids. Especially the "youth" level. They somehow don't want to see the real problems because they don't want these "poor" kids ending up with "labels".

On top of that, if it is indeed a personality disorder, these are extremely difficult to treat. Not impossible. But the patient has to see the need to change and be willing to put in a huge effort over a few years. It isn't easy.
 
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Lookingforthelight

Guest
It's Good Friday.

It doesn't feel very good. I've spent all day packing Princess's things. She wants her clothes so I packed all of that and her bathroom things in separate bins which my husband will bring to her as I can't see her. We are just waiting to hear from her to tell us she's at the place she wants her things at. Sigh.

I then packed all of her other things into "storage" bins. I'm washing all the bedding and packing that too. I was nice about it, and made sure I've cleaned and folded everything, and wrapped breakable items. She doesn't deserve that kindness from me but I'm her mom and I'm not mean. I hope someday she sees that.

We have rented a storage unit and will be putting all of her furniture and the other bins in there for her. I know we shouldn't pay for that but we will with the hopes that someday she'll smarten up and maybe find permanent living arrangements and want her furniture. It's my furniture actually (and a nice bedroom suite) but I want it out of my house. THIS is new for me. Very new. I have always made it easy for her (and me!!) for her to come back. And I can't this time.

I've kept some things for myself. That I don't want to get lost or broken. Things that I found that she had since she's been very small. They mean a lot to me, but clearly not her considering I've found them under the bed or stuffed wherever. But again, someday, I hope when we can have a relationship and she's on a positive path, I'll be able to give her those things and they'll mean something to her too.

Other times I've moved her out, I've been angry. I packed her things with a vengeance. This time was different and it truly makes me sad. Because, I know....this is it.

I'm a cleanser. I like to get rid of things that bring negative energy around me. I can't tell you how many times I've gotten rid of really nice things because they represented something "fake" or bad to me. I feel like I'm doing this to my own daughter. And I'm devastated.

Leafy mentioned to me something about higher power and handing it over. I do believe in a higher power (not necessarily a "God") but I believe our energy doesn't just die. My mom died almost 20 years ago. I talk to her everyday. I believe it's been her that has clued me into things surrounding my daughter. I've been told my "gut instinct" is almost frightening, how I know something is wrong. And I can never drop it. Like how I knew my kid was pregnant. She was only a few weeks pregnant but for a week my head kept telling me to get her to take a test. And I couldn't get it out of my head, so before school one day, I made her take a test. Or about the Xanax. Something felt wrong. While she was at her boyfriends, I went through her bags she uses to sleep over wherever, and I found a tightly rolled up $5 bill. I have drug tests here. I didn't freak out (on her--inside I was DYING) but asked her to come home for a drug test, and she instantly told me she did Xanax. I've tested her twice since then and it's been negative but I can't ignore my gut. Fast forward to this week, what the hell made me check my drawer for the missing money? I had no reason to check it but I'm laying in bed and my head says "check the drawer". So, I believe it's my mom. I believe she's trying to help me help her, like she couldn't do with me when she was alive.

All day, I've been saying to my mom, please help her. Please reassure me I'm doing the right thing. Because the way I'm feeling now, feels like I'm giving up on her. That I'm throwing her to the wolves.

There's a reason I've joined this site...I'd never think of doing it before but the night I joined I was pushed to by "my head". I need the support. I need other suffering, scared parents to tell me I'm doing the right thing. I would love to know what my next five years are going to be like, and to know this will "work" and she'll be a thriving, happy adult. I know that's not possible but I'm reassured knowing I have that chance by doing what I'm doing today.

It's Good Friday. I'm hoping that something good comes out of this.

Thank you for reading.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
You can not give up on somebody. That implies that you have control over another person, and you dont. You are simply taking your life back, letting your oldest have a chance to realize she needs help, and saving your youngest, who does not need chronic drama in her home.

Your daughter will carve her own lifes path. Right now she isnt very stable, mature, or safe. You said she gets violent. Your youngest doesnt need that nor do you. Her mental health is in her hands now. She is eighteen and you cant force her to realize she needs help. She has a better chance of realizing it if nobody rescues her.

I hope you feel better about it soon. Think of yourself and your younger one...
 

pigless in VA

Well-Known Member
Welcome, Looking for the light.
She rules me by my own fear.

I pulled this quote out of the many things you've said, because I think you should read it. No one should treat you in this manner - not even your child.

You also said that you have no advice for anyone. It doesn't matter. The struggle that you are writing about will touch many more people than you believe. Just being brave enough to talk candidly about what is happening is likely to help another person. When you are further on your journey, then you will be able to advise.

I thought my husband who is now gone might have had Borderline Personality Disorder. I found the book Stop Walking on Eggshells to be extremely helpful in giving me ideas on how to cope. Even if your daughter doesn't have Borderline (BPD), you can still draw strength from learning about it.

I'm sorry it hasn't felt much like "Good" Friday. Have a glass of wine and relax. :wine: Really that looks more like grape juice.
 

New Leaf

Well-Known Member
You can not give up on somebody. That implies that you have control over another person, and you don't. You are simply taking your life back, letting your oldest have a chance to realize she needs help, and saving your youngest, who does not need chronic drama in her home.
I love this SWOT, you are absolutely right. We do not have control over others, heck it is hard enough to have self control. Looking, you are not giving up on your daughter, you are giving in to the reality that you cannot help her in your home. She is out of control there, and dragging you all down with her. I do believe that when our kids act out like this, they are taunting us to push them out. They are really saying 'I can do this, I can take care of myself.....stop rescuing me and let me do this" Our dear friend Cedar put this very eloquently (as is her way) in this response....... (Cedar I miss you!)
These are the emotions from which I detach. That is what detachment parenting means to me: To detach from the emotions. I see it this way: What I have done did not help my child. There is a slim possibility that if I force my adult child into the world, he (or she) will claim adult status.

When the kids save themselves, they become their own heroes. We are not their heroes, anymore. On the other hand, they are not beggars, are not people who believe that if only the story is bad enough, we will save them.

They save themselves.

And find self respect there.

It's like we teach them to be beggars, the stories of their lives tailor made to get us to play the hero, and save them.

They need to be the heroes in their own stories, just as we are, in our stories.

So many times in life, we are told to follow our intuitions. It is our mother intuition telling us that if our kids are ever going to make it, we need to push them from the nest.

We need to push them from the nest.

Believe they can fly, and push them from the nest. They will flounder.

Then they will fly.

The kids are scared, too.

Like the fledglings are when they leave the nest.

But here is the thing. If the mother did not push her fledgling to fly, the fledgling's body would grow so heavy, but the muscles in his wings would not have developed. Soon, he will be a flightless bird through no one's fault, really.

But he will be a worthless thing to himself, nonetheless. Birds are meant to fly. How can they respect themselves when the other fledglings fly with strength and grace and beauty and their wings are tiny, useless things?

That is why they come almost to hate us, in their anger and their shame at their tiny, useless wings.
This response really touched me, as I hope it does you. It is the hardest time when we realize that what we have tried with our beloveds just did not work. I so remember being right where you are, packing up clothes and trinkets, weeping over the drama our lives had become, wishing for the good times. It is normal to feel this way. Let it out.
Take a deep breath and have faith Looking. You are doing the best thing for your girl.
Another poster wrote "Our adult children have wings you know, and they know how use them."
The end of the story has not been written. This is a new beginning, as I wrote earlier, for all of you.
You are going to be okay, and so will your daughter.
(((HUGS)))
leafy
 
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BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Thank you, Leafie. I had to learn that we cant "give up" on somebody else. That implies we can control what they do. The only person on earh we can help or give up on is ourselves.

We can give up HOPE that somebody else will decide to change, but thats as far as we can go.
So showing an adult wayward child the door is not giving up on them. It is setting a boundary for ourselves and taking our lives back. Unless our adult children are physically or mentally impaired, they are the ones who can use this as an opportunity or decide to implode. Most survive their way, as you well know.

Hope that helped. Hard to explain...
 

New Leaf

Well-Known Member
and they know how use them."
There I go again, "they know how TO use them."
Well Looking if you were here in Hawaii, that would work. But it would go more like this.....

"Eh seestah, your keed get wings you know and she know how use um."

You are going to be okay, and hopefully I will too.

:imok:

leafy
 
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Lookingforthelight

Guest
Thank you for your replies and I get what you're all saying and I don't disagree.

I do have control issues, it's always been a way I feel safe, if I'm controlling something or in this case someone. It truly is the scariest thing for me to let go of her & let her fly on her own. But I know that's the only thing that can happen in order for both of us to grow. I loved what Cedar said and thank you for sharing his/her posts with me.

I'm sad. I'm grieving. This may or may not help her. And I have to be ok with that. I know I need to focus on me & my other daughter. It's just hard when I feel so down and like I failed somehow raising her. I feel like my family is broken.

I just wanted to get out what I was feeling yesterday. And I'm having hope that as each day passes this will be easier for me to digest & accept.

Have a good day everyone. :)
 

New Leaf

Well-Known Member
I'm sad. I'm grieving. This may or may not help her. And I have to be ok with that. I know I need to focus on me & my other daughter. It's just hard when I feel so down and like I failed somehow raising her.
It is a grieving of the strangest kind. We grieve the choices of our loved ones, things could have gone way better, but oh, the choices.......we grieve our beloveds who are still walking this earth and the hardest part is that this is not a finality. They are still on this earth.
We grieve what should have been, what could have been and what is. Please do not feel you have failed her. I know that you have tried so very hard as the rest of us have to make some sense of this, to try with all of your might to infuse some sense into your daughter. But she will make her own choices. What you have taught her is still there, deep down inside of her. But she will make her own choices. Choices that do not bring about the best outcome, or consequences. This is how we all learn. We try, we make mistakes, we fail, we learn from our mistakes.
There came a time with all of us here, where the choices our adult children made started to effect us and the entire family more than it effected our d cs. We struggled and hurt, became angry and distressed, until we were so entangled with their choices, we felt all of the consequences and bore the brunt of it, more than they did. It became a game to them, how to continue down their path, still remain at home, do whatever they please no matter what the effect on their family. It comes to a point where someone has to draw a line. Oh how much easier it would be, if the kids would just wake up one day and decide differently. Most of us have found, this does not happen in our homes. So, someone has to draw the line. Stop the madness in our homes. So, we drew the line. Even though we all went through so much pain and anger and despair, following through still hurt, and so we grieved.
We all needed to grieve, to let it run its course, from sadness, to wondering if we did this, or did that, if it would have been different. We all were right where you are, Looking. I still go there sometimes. It is not easy. But, it is important to remember that the kids did not get any better staying in our homes. They just kept going down that road and dragging us all with them. So here we are.
Looking, I remember you writing how everyone says how wonderful your daughter is, how mature, that she is a different person in front of you, in your home.
Everyone who meets her tells me what a wonderful child she is. So mature.

Now, out there in the world, she will have to be that wonderful person.
I can assure you, we are the only people who see this side of her.
She will not be able to come home and wreak havoc on her family. She will have to be that person that people see, that you would like to see. This is her chance to be that wonderful person. You are giving her that chance Looking. It does not feel like it right now, but you are.

Be very kind and gentle with yourself. Take time to do things for you. Try to find ways to lift yourself up.
You have done the best job you could, parenting your girl. She has resisted your parenting and reasonable rules for a long time now. She wants to do things her way. She needs to find her purpose and meaning, her way. You are giving her the freedom to do that.
It is a gift, not a punishment. With all that she has done, she has insisted on her way.
Your house, your rules. She has shown you through her actions, that she will not follow your rules.
If nothing changes, nothing changes. You have made the necessary change. It doesn't feel good, it is hard, but necessary.
She's an actress. At home she is abusive, mean, a liar, a thief, and sweet as pie...when she wants something.
She cannot be this, out there.

She will have to be that wonderful person everyone talks about.

You have given her the freedom and the chance to be that.

(((HUGS)))
leafy
 

Nature

Active Member
So many words of wisdom from all the posters. We have all walked in your shoes and I understand your grieving heart. You probably are still doubting yourself at times - the shoulda, coulda, woulda thoughts sometimes creep in - I only say this from my own experience the first time I asked my son to leave. I too know the frustration of having a child who was so personable and polite around psychiatrist and other people that I'm assuming they perhaps thought the problem was me and not my child. Even recently in the throes of his addiction he saw a court ordered psychiatrist and the documentation showed there was nothing wrong with him.(The professional came to this conclusion after one visit)Those of us who have seen his dark side were floored. However, my son knew how to play the game and seems to share some traits with your daughter. Good looks and a winning smile got him many places but the inner shell was empty.

Your daughter must now walk her own path and like the others mentioned her wings are now ready to fly. Like baby birds they may crash and fall but in order to fly free it is the only way to learn.
You set boundaries and made a decision that is very difficult to do - you are a strong person! Hugs from me.
 
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