OK, now I get it

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by klmno, Feb 29, 2012.

  1. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    PO really is that clueless and apparently those over him are that clueless- yet they are ticked off at me to no end because they see my expectations for them to comply with the law as a challenge to them and they really do think they can do whatever they want with difficult child- except I do think they are starting to get a little clue on that one.

    For those of you who are keeping up with our story and read my last post with the letter I sent to po- I got an email response today and it had a letter and parole plan attached, saying it was "per my request". Boo-hockey- it's per state law and fed law- I found the laws- and it was supposed to have already been done but PO states it's "per my request". Anyway, it was like reading one of the first IEPs- where, instead of defining measurable goals, it states "difficult child will increase his level of understanding about the impact of his behavior". Now, that wasn't in the objectives section, that was in the section where they are supposed to define what exactly, by whom, how often, etc. But this is a parole plan- not an IEP or MH plan. It should be sticking with things like "goes to school daily unless excused by dr's notice", "passes all drug tests", complies with house arrest for 30 days, and things like that. I can't believe his super doesn't know better and what's worse, apparently the director of the CSU here doesn't know better. I'm starting to think no one in this CSU has even written one of these things before- it looks like he had reentry lady write it.

    I'm trying to type a letter up to respond back without making things worse but it's a flippin joke. Here's part of my draft letter:

    Now, I know many of us here first started out in IEP mtgs with people from the sd who pulled this koi just trying to set up loopholes by being vague in the IEP to get our kid out of the sd and we learned what steps to take to get a better, legal, appropriate IEP written with actual goals written in measurable terms to schieve the objective and to measure progress. But it usually took involvement of those higher up in the DOE. In this casae, I'm not sure the higher ups in Department of Juvenile Justice even have a clue. And they want to send people to parents' homes to teach THEM how to do a behavior contract??
  2. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip


    Jeesh, girl. I don't know how you haven't gone homicidal on these people.

    I have no wisdom... I do feel for you, though. UGH!!!
  3. buddy

    buddy New Member

    How in Hades? Are you going to state that while this is a desired outcome of his overall therapy and objectives in life.... it is not a measurable goal and therefore you are requesting this change??? I mean really??? it is like one time I remember a goal that a girl with DS was to be happier at work. I was still a student and when I saw that I thought it was insane. (then I saw an objective under the goal that she had to smile x number of times per day....ugggg)

    People are stupid. (I am in a mood, sorry)
  4. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    I like that Buddy- I've been sitting here trying to figure out my last paragraph and I think I might snatch that if it's ok with you. In my email, which I will hit "reply to all" (meaning his super and CSU director) I'm going to mention an obvious lack of appropriate training and suggest they request training from state or fed authorities. It's our state law that a plan be written and covered with parents and the juvenile long before release and fed law requires it too but they state "at release". It's not fair for these kids/teens to sit incarcerated because these POs don't know how to do that or know their boundaries in the law. I speculate this is why they are left assuming they can do whatever they want.
  5. keista

    keista New Member

    I think your draft and Buddy's statement sound good.

    I haven't been fully keeping up with your story, but it sounds as if these ppl need IEP training. seriously, I know it's not an IEP but the point of it is the same, isn't it.

    So, I just started thinking about the whole IEP process. Big historical picture.
    1 Government set up the law and the safeguards.
    2 School staffs did a lame job of implementing law and safeguards.
    3 Parents started turning to lawyers and ex-sped teachers trying to write IEPs that actually do something to protect their kids.

    in my opinion you are on the verge of #3 in the JJD system. They are stuck on #2. The good news is that you have the experience of IEPs and can force them to set this plan up accordingly. Once you are done, you can clue them in to the whole IEP process. Probably won't care, but it's worth a shot.
  6. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Keep these ideas coming, Ladies! They are really helpful right now! I can't sit on this or they'll accuse me of holding up difficult child.
  7. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    How can I say something nicely that lets them know I think this PO doesn't have the training or experience he should or that could come close to dealing with my son and I still want a different PO without offending anyone? Someone on a different thread mentioned something about our difficult children being outside the typical or normal realm of things to kind of leave an "out" for those who are clueless- and Lord help me- this PO is clueless and his super is just on a power trip- she thinks she can do wahtever she wants.
  8. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not


    What if your letter says "I was hoping to have the following goals substituted for those currently listed in the plan: a)______________, b) ______________, c) ______________ ". ?
  9. HaoZi

    HaoZi Guest

    Ummm.... "PO shall learn how to properly do his job and shall apply that knowledge and all applicable state and federal laws"?

    Okay I can't really help here, I just thought I'd try (perhaps in vain) to give you a laugh.
  10. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Well, I'm trying to stay clear of insinuating what "I" want because I've asked fed doj to look into this. I'm trying to advocate for what the facility difficult child just came out of recommended and the previous MH profs recommended and just "ask" what POs measurable goals are.

    Pretty much it's like this- PO refused to define what it was he wanted for the longest time and I'm sure it's because his super got mad and told me she'd "release difficult child to me when she felt like it" although, by law, it's not up to the PO when the kid gets released- he's a juvenile and the higher ups in Department of Juvenile Justice or the Department of Juvenile Justice facility determine that. But they had their heals dug in so that meant NONE of the law-required steps a PO is to take to prepare a kid for transitioning got done. PO has lied to difficult child and me but it's too obvious. So now, I'm telling PO that I'm not signing squat until it does get done- and it seemed it was evasive and now I see why- he doesn't have a clue HOW to do it. He copied his super and the CSU (local) director on this email with this "plan" and I'm asatonished if they don't give him a wake up call- well, the spuer I wouldn't expect to because she's on a flippin control trip but the director locally- he should know better- if he doesn't, they need to get central office of Department of Juvenile Justice involved but really, I don't know that they know either- they don't appear to be competent at all which is why I wrote ffed DOJ. We have no state IG in place- got voted in over a year ago but it's been one excuse after another.

    PO has sat and laughed about trying to get a teen in a half way house but kid sat there for months while it was "trying to go thru" (come to find out thru my legal research, it requires a judge/court order) and another incident where a kid sat at home for 3 weeks waiting to get enrolled in sd ( PO blames sd- but sd says they can't start process if PO doesn't allow paperwork/transcripts thru to them).

    I told difficult child tonight I wish I'd kept my mouth shut to begin with. I didn't think him coming home with no services was in his best interest but goodness, these people have sat over here with fed funding approved for over a year and still can't do any better than this? And my son did his time, qualified and got approved for release, and now they are ordering things not consisitent with the recommendations and can't even puit those in measurable goals? And I had to fight tooth and nail to get that much?

    OK- how do I say all that nicely?
  11. klmno

    klmno Active Member


    I'm looking for that "Like" button!!! I've told them repetitively that things fall apart in CSU. Their statistics hoover and they know it. That's why I think PO went to reentry lady for advice on how to write a PO plan and she told him objectives for a typical behavior contract and he wrote that down as measurable goals for parole supervision. How dumb.
  12. HaoZi

    HaoZi Guest

    I got nothing. Buuuut... I'd bet some of the ladies from the PE area would have some ideas.
  13. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member

    Dear Department of Juvenile Justice officials: I have come to the conclusion that all of you are beyond inept. In fact, you remind me of our local, state and national government of current times. I am assuming you are treating these kids in this manner in the hopes that you can turn out more inept sheep to run our government into the ground. If so, you are doing a bang up job. Because I dont feel I would be able to be that incompetent, I will leave it all up to you. Here is hoping you can turn my boy into the next President. (God help us all!)
  14. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    LOL, DJ! I luv ya!

    Well, here's what I wrote in the email- the letter attached was 90 % questions about measurable goals, law-required stuff, and concluded with a statement similar to the post about long-term objectives but how would one measure that now. I don't even care at this point if this is grammatically correct or not- you should see the emails he's sent me-

  15. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    I hope you get the results you need and am, as always, sending supportive thoughts your way. Hugs DDD
  16. buddy

    buddy New Member

    waiting to hear their response... once he is out, I wonder if he would have the energy for any kind of civil action or political ambition...I think it is actually criminal that they are playing with a LIFE this way. So upsetting.
  17. slsh

    slsh member since 1999

    klmno- I know I'm coming in on this late, but I think perhaps in your next communication with- them (which I suspect will have to be soon), you should just link your concerns directly to the statutes. For example: Per (state code, section, subsection, and federal code, section subsection), difficult child is to be wearing white socks on Mondays, Thursdays, and Fridays. difficult child is only wearing pink socks, 7 days a week.

    Suggesting PO and all have not received appropriate training is just going to tick them off. It's your opinion, and I think you're spot on, but it's a subjective call, and I think you have a far better chance of getting the results you want if you can stay objective and just cite federal/state statutes that they are not complying with. Telling them that XYZ is what they're supposed to be doing isn't enough - you need to give them the actual code.

    It's early in the morning and I'm not sure I'm making sense - but for example, first due process I filed back in early 90s, I didn't know what the heck I was doing but I was beyond furious with- SD for various bologna they were pulling with- Boo. Believe it or not, the straw that broke my back was that he was on a bus for 40 minutes a day with- several other students, one of whom had seizures every few minutes. Boo had to sit next to this kid because they were both in wheelchairs and tie-down space was limited. There was no aide, and Boo was coming home with scratches to his face and body from this other kid flinging his arms out during a seizure (Boo is quadriplegic so couldn't protect himself). All I wanted was a darn aide on the bus - that's it.

    Anyway, I sat down with IDEA and went over the whole darn thing line by line and nailed their posteriors to the wall for every single violation - failure to provide rec therapy, parent training, augmentative communication, measurable goals, FAPE in LRE, etc., etc., etc. My very factual due process request came out to 4 pages. No opinions, no emotion. Simply a list of sections of IDEA and their failure to comply. They wanted mediation, obviously, and I got *every* *single* *thing* I noted in my request for DP. It was incredibly stupid on SD's part - they should have just provided the aide, but instead they had to provide the aide *and* do a whole bunch of other very expensive stuff.

    I think agencies get used to dealing with- parents who don't have the ability/time/strength to be warrior parents, and when they do run into the rare warrior parent, they assume they can just placate them into submission.

    I think it's essential to keep your opinion out of any further communication with these people. You've become a thorn. I think it's equally essential that you connect your requests with- the law. Again, "per state code 123-45 A (b), Department of Juvenile Justice is to formulate a release plan prior to whatever. Since this has not yet been done, please provide me with release plan." Hopefully the statutes, like IDEA, are specific about how the plan is to be written - measurable goals, etc. So if you get another noncommittal response, you can come back with- "per blah blah blah statutes, goals are to define blah blah blah. Please provide blah blah blah."

    I also think that at this point, one of your goals needs to be *not* to ask for services from state post release. You need these people out of your lives like yesterday, and chances are, the services are going to be as useful (ahem) as they have always been. Fulfill requirements, be compliant, hold them to the law, but I'd start researching your options for private services. And I'd be pretty darn blunt with- difficult child - these people are on major power trips and while difficult child *should* participate in MH services, it is not in his best interest that it be through these folks who have the power to majorly SNAFU his life further. He needs to buck up and get with the program or he is *never* going to get out from under their thumb. Just my opinion.

    I hope this makes sense (and if I missed a "statue" that is supposed to be "statute", I apologize). GAH, I need coffee. ;)
  18. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Buddy, we both might have the energy but we sure don't have the money. I'm really hoping that I don't have to figure out a way to pay for an attny to take on the state Department of Juvenile Justice but it's looking like that might happen. I found 5 sections in state law requiring the parole plan and criteria for release from a program be provided to both of us and you see what I've had to go thru to get that much.

    DDD-I know my email was b-witchy but it is so frustrating that these people either have no idea what the law requires of them and have had no training whatsoever or they simply don't care. Either way I think it's a travesty. I wish I could post the entire plan he sent me without taking legal risks or jeopardizing difficult child's privacy along with the ones from the past so you could see how ametuer this one looks.
  19. Star*

    Star* call 911........call 911

    klmno -

    I know I'm chiming in late.......but I think perhaps you could call LEGAL aid in your town - and make an appointment and get some LEGAL advice - FREE and have an attorney read WHATEVER you submit to CYA. Just a thought. HUGS girl.
  20. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    I "kinda" understand, klmno. I'm trying anyway because I do have your best interests at heart. on the other hand I fear this is going to be prolonged because (from afar) you didn't specify what steps you want them to take other than changing the personnel assigned to the case. If you accept the premise that PO and his boss don't know how to do it right then, in my humble opinion, you needed to provide a list indicating what you "understand" the plan is suppose to include. Primarily I would think that the "attainable goals with methodology and time line for achieving those goals".

    Of course I'm just brainstorming with you. And...I'm rooting for you too. DDD