Please help, I desperately need some advice! V V Long!!!!

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by liz_milne, May 4, 2011.

  1. liz_milne

    liz_milne New Member

    Hi there all, I am new here, and have been reading some posts and felt I just had to try to get some help and advice on my situation before i reach the end of my tether.

    I seriously believe my 7 year old daughter had ODD. I wouldnt class her as hyperactive and have therefore been looking for conditions similar to ADHD and ADD but when I come across ODD, I could tick every single box in the diagnosis section with ease. Some questions were saying if the child had shown signs of a particular item within the last 3 months, but my daughter is daily and it's getting worse.

    Her behaviour has been somewhat "testing" since about 2-3 years old but I had put it down to her age. Then when she was 4-5 I put it down to her needing to start school, she was ready for it. But it has got worse. Much worse. Especially in the last 6 months or so.

    Typical morning for us:

    She gets up after a good sleep (which is one good thing I suppose, and I can't put her behaviour down to being tired). then we have to get ready for school. so we always have breakfast first. I allow her to pick her breakfast and then I get it ready for her. She will take on average about 25 mins to half hour to eat a bowl or cereal, this is normal for her and her pace. Can sometimes take her about an hour to eat her dinner! Then its time to have a wash, which she will point blank refuse to do. I have even just got her babywipes to make it much easier but even that is a hassle.

    Then its teeth brushing. my goodness what a battle that is. It takes about 10 mins to actually get her to brush her teeth.

    Even this morning, we had a battle over her school socks!!! I asked her to roll them down a bit, as they were pulled fully up (ankle socks) and that was a battle royale. Simple requests are ALWAYS met with "I don't want to" or "no" and to be honest it's getting on my nerves. I am trying so hard not to lose my patience with her.

    I have tried (since she was younger) naughty corner, naughty step, time out, reward charts, reward days out for good behaviour, pocket money on a Friday for doing well at school but all to no avail.

    She now is able to go out with friends to the local park (with her mobile) and only gets out for an hour or so at a time (to give her some independence) and last night she was 25 mins late. I had already explained that the punishment for such things would be grounded the next night and seriously she has been on at me for the past 90 minutes crying and screaming and kicking up a fuss and throwing things. I have now resorted to ignoring her as there is nothing else I can do without losing my head!

    At the end of all this I get the usual I hate you and its unfair and calls herself stupid and ugly.

    she is unable to watch a full programme or film on TV and gets bored easy. She has no imagination with regard to keeping herself amused. She terrorises the cat. She breaks toys way too easily. she struggles to keep friends, as her attitude is her way or no way. She storms out of school every day with a face like thunder, cries at everything and anything, argues that black is white and does not EVER remember punishments that she has had in the past. it's like I'm teaching her values for nothing? Is this normal behaviour? I don't think so. My parents and sister are now finally seeing my daughters behaviour in a different light and now know that i'm not talking complete trash.

    At school they operate a points system where each day they all get 5 points and have to keep them by the end of the school day. in primary 1 she started off well but its downhill all the way. she is now primary 3 (dont know the american equivalent) and each day gets only 1 or 2 points for continouously taking and disrputing in the classroom. the frustrating part is she is VERY VERY clever and academic. She is way ahead on spelling, reading, maths and they have given her extra work for her times tables all the way up to 7 times tables, which is more advanced than she should be.

    I honestly dont know where to go with this one. My doctor wont listen and says its just a phase. I don't qualify for a local support group because I am NOT a single parent, and also I am a working parent (only part time) and also have a large extended family to help me. I thought support groups were supposed to be for one and all? Hence why I ended up here. I need advice. I seriously feel on the edge of depression and dont know where to turn to. I'm in UK by the way.

    Sorry for it being long winded but once I started, I couldn't stop lol

    Liz xxxxxx
  2. Liz,

    Welcome! Wow, your difficult child sounds alot like mine! Ugh! Sorry.

    First off, I am so glad you found your way here. This place is filled with been there done that warrior parents who will ask you lots of questions and offer lots of support. This place has literally saved my life on several occasions.

    I am going through some major stuff right now and my advice is a little lacking. But others will be by soon. Stick around. Read, post, read some more.

    Hugs of welcome, Vickie
  3. liz_milne

    liz_milne New Member

    thank you so much, glad to know i'm not the only one!
  4. liz_milne

    liz_milne New Member

    couple of other things, she doesnt care how she looks when she goes out, doesn't want to look presentable and finds it difficult to behave in public places. i can't take her shopping as she wants everything she touches and makes a scene. she is very selfish and has no appreciation of the value of money (and believe me she is not a spoilt child whatsoever) and is so lazy its unbearable. Will tidy her room after about 3 hours pleading!
  5. busywend

    busywend Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Welcome liz-milne - if that is your real name we request that you change your screen name as we desire privacy for all the children discussed here.

    She certainly sounds ODD. To me there might be some sensory things going on as well. Look into Sensory Integration Disorder. Also, she may be ADD without the H it is more like their brain is ADHD and can not focus or settle - even if their body is not hyper.

    A few things I can suggest. Stop trying to parent her as a typical child. She is not typical. I found non-traditional parenting most helpful. It was hard because it made me very uncomfortable to not parent in the way I was meant to parent. It took me out of my comfort zone. What does this mean?

    First of all, while many 7 year olds may be able to handle going to the park alone in Scotland (I do not think we have enough safety in the US to be able to do it here) - I do not think your difficult child is able. I suspect it will cause her more harm than good. She may be picked on (you said she can not keep friends so I am assuming she can be offputting to kids) and it can cause all kinds of reactions from her. From lying to violence. I really see trouble brewing there. Especially with her getting THAT upset at not being able to go. So, while you are trying to give independence (like you would for a typical child) I would change that thought process for now.

    Some other things to let go of....the socks. Forget it. It is not worth yet another battle. She may even have some sensory issues with socks and may require them to be a certain way so they feel 'right' to her. The bathing & teeth are one you likley have to keep up on. But, there are many little things you can change to help reduce the number of arguments.

    That became my goal so that our home was not such a battleground.
  6. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Have you considered she may have high functioning autism/Aspergers syndrome? I'm not sure if they diagnose that in scotland much or not. To me it seems that many other countries sort of lump everything together as ADD/ADHD. ODD, at least in our country, is not a very useful diagnosis.

    A child who does not understand how to socialize here would be at high risk for autism and would probably get and respond favorably to autism interventions. See if this rings a bell (link below). Hint: All of our kids could pass for :) Welcome to the board:
  7. liz_milne

    liz_milne New Member

    Hi and thanks for responses. Firstly I understand about screen name, never really thought at first and if someone can tell me how to go about changing it, I will.

    I have never heard of, and subsequently had a look at sensory integration disorder, none of the symptoms sound like her really. I also see what you mean about her brain being hyper but her body not. that makes much more sense to me!

    with regard to the playpark, I will now not allow her to go alone or with friends and will now go with her as she still needs her outdoor playtime and fresh air. Lying is another trait she is picking up on but doesn't seem to understand or comprehend WHY it is wrong, and I have tried explaining to her basically in babyish terms so she would understand, but still little white lies come out and don't know how to deal with this.

    It's the learning to treat her different to other kids, WITHOUT it being obvious that she feels like she is being a - treated like a baby, or b - getting away with murder that's the hard bit.

    the socks thing I can let go of. That's just one of 1000 scenarios that I chose to type, as it happened this morning and was fresh in my mind. Hair brushing is another one. She will make it as hard as possible to brush her hair and refuses to do it herself, resulting in her going to school with very very messy bed hair, but doesn't bother her (this was just something I put down to being lazy and not wanting to do her hair). i have actually put alot of her behaviour down to laziness, cos she can't be bothered to do something properly, so I now know I have to look at things from a much wider angle and try to understand things differently.

    Should I ignore her when she is in battle mode (23 out of 24 hours a day?) or do I give in to her? I don't know which is best sometimes! I also realise that children learn almost everything from their upbringing but she has had such a nice upbringing, not too spoiled, nice family, great school, lots of support with homework etc. i'm ranting again! sorry!

    Ok, the high functioning autism suggests that the child most likely had or has difficultly with speech or slow learner. She is in fact completely the opposite. At 18 months had a huge vocabulary and very clearly spoken. at 2 could hold a full conversation with any adult and has always understood reading and spelling and writing. She excels at maths and art. her speech is very clear (too clear sometimes with the hurtful things she says !)

    ok, gotta run for now, but will check on later x
  8. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not

    Hello and Welcome!

    Wow, she sounds an awful lot like my daughter at that age!

    Today, my daughter has been diagnosed with alphabet soup. I blame this, in part, on listening to docs and teachers when they told me "it's just a phase" instead of pushing for in-depth testing.

    Had I known then what I know now? I would have immediately taken her to see a pediatric neuropsychologist with a list of my concerns and notes about unusual behaviors.

    Please do this as soon as possible. It may give you some much needed answers and a direction for some solutions!

    (by the way - I would NOT let her go to the park un-supervised. Ask yourself honestly...can you trust her to do the right thing? If not, then she should not be going. )
  9. KTMom91

    KTMom91 Well-Known Member

    Hi and welcome, Liz. Your daughter sounds a lot like mine was at that age. All I can really suggest is to pick your battles. With Miss KT, I insisted on clean clothes that were appropriate to the school dress code, and a clean body to put them on. Otherwise, if she wanted to go around looking like a hot mess, it was her problem, not mine.

    Another thing I found that worked was to put responsibility for her clothes and her room on her. If dirty clothes didn't hit the clothes basket, I didn't wash them. As long as the room was reasonably sanitary (no food scraps, dirty dishes, empty wrappers, etc.), I just closed the door. If she couldn't find what she needed? Not My Problem.

    Letting her go alone to the park? And having a cell phone? Not a chance. Since she didn't get home on time, it tells me she is not ready for that responsibility.

    With the shopping issue, I found that making a deal with Miss KT before we went shopping helped immensely. If she wanted something, say a new top, it had to be either on sale or on clearance, and within a certain price point. If not, then we had to wait till next time. If we were food shopping, she got to choose one treat for her very own. If the shopping rules were not followed, there were consequences, and after carrying/dragging a screaming child out of various stores a few (hundred) times, she realized I meant it.
  10. jennd23

    jennd23 New Member

    Not that we are able to diagnose here but I'd also suggest looking at Aspergers or Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD)-not otherwise specified instead of just the Autism info. Aspergers are often referred to as "little professor syndrome" because the kids are so sharp.

    She sounds a lot like my son. I like most of the advice given here and I need to practice it myself. One thing that I struggle with is knowing which battles to choose. I don't have the mental energy or desire to battle every single thing so I have to pick the most important. Sometimes in the moment its hard to remember what the most important are though.

    You could always just tag along and bring a book to the park so that you're there but not hovering.
  11. liz_milne

    liz_milne New Member

    tonight all the bawling and screaming is forgotten about and she seems to be very well behaved again, i have sat down and spoken with her on a 2 to 1 basis with both me and her dad there, and explained the reasons why she is getting points deducted and why it is important to behave and pay attention at school (all this has been done before and everytime we get the same response that she will change her ways and will try to pay more attention and not talk in class, but it doesn't happen). I will not allow her to go to the park on her own or with friends, even though it is just a stones throw away. i will go with her. Also I want her to learn that we can't go to the park ALL the time just because she wants to. Even since just putting my problems on here and getting some response and guidance has lifted a huge weight. i am going to brave the doctor again and I am going to push for some further testing on her behaviour and not be fobbed off with "its a phase thing". They are not the ones who have to live with it and "put up with it". i feel SO much better now knowing I am not the only one out there, and that is not ALL my fault, it is also her genetic makeup. its just so disheartening when you see all these smiley happy children coming out of school and being so happy to see their parents picking them up and i get greeted with a grunt and a miserable face, which I try desperately to ignore. Everyday she comes out like that and still asks if she can have a sweet or something from the shop (candy for you americans out there lol), but I tell her no because of her attitude when coming out of school. When she learns to come out geniuinely happy and smiley and pleased and getting good points for that day, then by all means as a way of a reward for a hard day at school, we can go to the shop, but i can honestly say we have not been to the shop after school for about 14 months. No exaggeration!

    I will keep you updated, and no doubt i will think of 1000 other questions to be answered over the coming hours!

    thank you all once again for your responses and I will take EVERYTHING on board that is said and suggested.

    Time to pick my battles................deep breath

    Liz (p.s. any guidance on changing user name??)
  12. liz_milne

    liz_milne New Member

    forgot to mention that although she struggles to keep friends, she does attend Brownies every week after recently graduation from being a Rainbow. she does enjoy this but has recently said she wants to stop going as its baby-ish and boring. she used to go to dance classes but her co-ordination was putting her off. she can't fully ride her bike yet without stabilisers, her sense of balance is terrible. She now wants to go to choir lessons, where the school have invited her to audition as she does love singing but i fear the attention span will not be enough to sustain this.
  13. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Aspergers Syndrome kids tend to be brilliant, but they haven't a clue how to socialize and are disinterested in social norms, such as cleanliness (I have this issue with my son). The article did NOT say slow learning. It said delayed processing OR delayed social skills.I would say she sounds like her social skills are not good and that usually doesn't improve without interventions.Delayed motor skills is another symptom. And being able to speak does NOT equal understanding how to have a give and take conversation. My son has a huge vocabulary and sounds brilliant, but does not really converse beyond talking about his own interests and saying "yes" or "no" (at least with peers).

    Good luck, regardless of what you decide to do. I also would not give her privileges of kids her own age. I would go by what she can handle. She can get fresh air with you supervising her...which is my suggestion. That way you can also watch to see if she interacts appropriately with her same age peers.
  14. jennd23

    jennd23 New Member

    Liz, I know with my son the punishments mean nothing to him! They totally upset him at the time but after that, its like they never happened.

    For example, on Monday while jumping on the couch he knocked out one of his teeth, literally. An hour later, back to jumping on the couch. You'd think the sequence - jump on couch = me getting hurt or me getting in trouble would stick in his mind but its completely forgotten. Like someone else said, you just cant parent these kids like your instincts tell you to and its so frustrating!
  15. busywend

    busywend Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I am looking into how to change your screen name. I have never actually done it and I can not seem to figure it out either.

    I had to let go of the cleanliness thing too. It was around your difficult children age, too. It became such an awful battle, that I figured if she stunk maybe someone at school would tell her. Wouldn't you know it somehow, someway my difficult child never stunk. It was like she had a built in deodorant! LOL! Her clothes eventually got a bit funky (she refused to pick them up or bring to laundry room).
    I eventually just did whatever I could to stop the battles - and that meant not fighting her to shower or brush her teeth. Oh well - she does it now! It was a bunch of worry for nothing. We got through it just fine.

    There are a few BIG regrets I have. One is I grounded her and the punishment was taking away Trick or Treating (not sure you have this in Scotland) October 31st knock on neighbors doors in costume and get a piece of candy. The other event I regret is cancelling a birthday party of hers.
    She did not learn from either punishment, but they both stick with her to this day. She does not try to make me feel bad about it, but they certainly are in her memory. But, it never improved her behavior.

    So - for goodness sake - take your little love to get some candy after school one day. Just say you really wanted to see her smile and thought maybe the candy would do the trick. You tried to see the smile every day - but maybe she is just not capable. It could even be a time of day thing. It might just not be possible for her to be happy leaving school for whatever reason. But, you can not limit her life and your joy all the time. It isn't getting you anywhere anyway.

    Stop at that candy shop tomorrow!!! I order you! LOL! :bigsmile:
  16. runawaybunny

    runawaybunny Guest

    I can help with screen name requests. Just send me a pm with the name that you would like to switch to and if it's available I will make the necessary changes to your account.
  17. Last ♡ Hope

    Last ♡ Hope New Member

    Awww sweety, I could have written this myself! I'm too new to have much in the way of advice, but you, unfortunately, are not alone. :sorrysmiley:
  18. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    You are not in the US, the 'rules' vary from place to place. My youngest son was initially diagnosed with Asperger's even though he was non-verbal. He DID have speech, however, just not language. Bizarre. He would repeat what he heard, often not distinguishing between incidental sounds and words. He had an amazing memory for sequences of sounds. He could read, from very young indeed (we suspect it began at about 6 months old). He got an autism diagnosis when he was about 3 and was also started on ADHD medications. Amazingly, he began to talk, REALLY talk, at that point. It's what worked, for him. Interestingly, some years later the school tried to have the diagnosis changed from autism to Asperger's because "he's talking real well now". The thing is, the definition of autism requires HISTORY of language delay. Once autistic, always autistic, even when he learns to blend in. Or as he put it when he was 8 years old, "I'm getting very good at pretending to be normal".

    My older son had no language delay but otherwise was more classic in his autism presentation. So he got the label of Asperger's, when he was about 14. before that he had been labelled as severe ADHD and we'd had every idiot under the sun mucking around with his treatment and stuffing it up.

    I really do think your daughter needs to be evaluated. And I am appalled at the lack of support, simply because you are not a single parent. I think you have just not found the right support group. You are also always free to start your own. Support can start as simply as inviting someone to meet you for coffee. Even with a large supportive family, be aware that often they can be the last ones to accept there is a serious problem - it is easier to believe you're nuts, than hurting.

    With your GP - we had that problem too. Our local practice had two doctors. One was an old student of mine (no, I was not a teacher, but a technician). The other was his junior. My old friend was the more popular so it was harder to get in to see him and he was often distracted if I succeeded. So I saw the junior, who was quite hostile and very scathing about ANYTHING being wrong with difficult child 3 - he said I was just being over-anxious. For us, the first referral had to be the pediatrician. We'd already had Community Health insist on a speech assessment, that referral was through child protection services (yes, they got called on me by the child care people - I was horrified). So we already knew difficult child 3 had language delay (as if it wasn't obvious). The GP did not want to write the referral, so I said, "If you are right and I am just fussing over nothing, then the pediatrician will tell me so and I will accept that. But if there IS something amiss, the sooner we identify it, the better. You may well be right. But let's be certain you are right."
    He wrote the referral to shut me up, and the rest is history. Mind you, it was this doctor that later on did not accept the diagnosis and claimed I had "shopped around" until I got the diagnosis I wanted, even though difficult child 3 has only ever seen that one pediatrician.

    We went back to my regular (old friend) doctor, when the new idiot walked out and started up his own rival practice (nasty piece of work, that man). My friend was apologetic for not 'getting it' before, and we stayed with him as GP even after he moved several times. I do not "doctor shop"! He has now ceased general practice, he has begun to specialise in a field we do not need.

    Back to the child - girls can get Asperger's but it is less common. They also can express it differently, in more complex ways. We now believe my second daughter is Aspie, but when she was younger she presented as very bright and a bit of a behaviour problem - insolent, stubborn and at times deceptive. Also obsessive about certain textures. Now she is older, she is actually displaying more problems. Like your daughter, easy child 2/difficult child 2 was highly verbal from a very young age, she was amazing. And very, very determined! We had her assessed when she was just 4 years old and she scored high across the board at the time - IQ of about 145. She also (at 4) had a Vineland Adaptive Age Equivalent of 6 years old.

    You mentioned your daughter lies. How do you know? Are the lies obvious? Are they creative? My daughter is very creative, so is difficult child 3. Despite his autism diagnosis, difficult child 3 is capable of crafting a beautiful, fictional story. This is unusual for those on the spectrum. However, lying is far more difficult for them, as a rule. To be able to lie well (and therefore not get caught) requires significant social understanding which is a huge problem for those on the spectrum (and I include Asperger's on the spectrum). I used to say, difficult child 3 could not lie because autistics don't lie. Then his teacher showed me a classic example where he had unmistakably caught out difficult child 3 in an obvious lie. "I didn't do it" when the teacher had seen him do it.

    Kids lie generally to get out of trouble. A kid who has higher levels of anxiety is more likely to try to lie, to try to reduce the anxiety. "I am in trouble now, I did not complete my work. Maybe I can lie and say I did." The lie paradoxically increases the anxiety and, over time, these kids learn (especially if they keep getting caught) to not lie. But not lying is a learned response in autism, it is not necessarily second nature. When younger, ALL kids try to lie. Those who are bad at it, over time learn not to. With help. These days I can trust all my kids (except easy child) to not lie. easy child lies a lot, especially when playing card games with her siblings. Not fair, really. But she has minimal Aspie traits and can lie well, poker-faced. When she does it to her siblings it is like shooting fish in a barrel - no real sport in it at all, no glory in such a win. easy child will not lie about anything important, however.

    With your doctor - lay the cards on the table.

    *Your daughter needs evaluation because she is an acknowledged behaviour problem at school now, when she was not before.

    * There is no such medical or psychological condition as "a phase". There is always a reason, and an earlier evaluation will stand a chance of finding that reason earlier. An earlier GP we had (who owned the practice before my friend bought it) told me that difficult child 1 was fine, he was just different to his sisters. No need to evaluate, just give him time.

    * Your daughter is a discipline problem at home and you are not coping. If this is your fault for bering a bad parent, the sooner some expert tells you this and gives you some sense of direction, the better for both you and your child.

    Now, with this last one I do not for a minute believe you are the problem (not in any way you might think). But by saying this to the doctor, you take the wind out of his sails and remove that argument of his from the equation.

    The main way you could be part of this problem (in the same way we all are/have been) is with your reactions to your child. I am increasingly convinced that in the vast majority of cases, ODD is something we produce ourselves in a child, by our response to their behaviour. What most people would consider acceptable discipline techniques, methods that work brilliantly on most kids, can actually produce ODD-semblance in these others.

    Fore example - let's look at a hypothetical kid who has poor social skills. ALL kids want to belong, man is a social creature. But in order to belong, you need to know how to adjust your behaviour to social acceptability. it is innate in us all, except for those on the spectrum in whom it is flawed (not necessarily absent). Now, how best do we learn? Because these social skills CAN be learned. We learn by imitation. Who do we imitate? Our role models. Something I have observed in my own kids, as well as others on the spectrum, is that they tend to not discriminate on status. Often it's because they just do not recognise different status in individuals - social skills again. With hindsight we can see this in easy child 2/difficult child 2 - her apparent insolence to adults in childhood, was her failure to recognise that you have to be more polite to the principal than to your best buddy.
    A classic example of this in difficult child 3 - we were in the waiting room for a doctor. difficult child 3 was rummaging through the box of books. A six month old baby in a carrier was crying, and the sound was beginning to upset difficult child 3. he complained, "I won't be able to concentrate on my book." Knowing he would read aloud anyway, I suggested he read a book to the baby. He face lit up - a great idea! So he went to the baby, held up a selection of "Spot" books and said, "Which would you like me to read?"
    The baby waved a hand aimlessly which difficult child 3 took to mean THAT book, so he put the others down and began to read. I had taught him to read with expression, putting on voices and to make eye contact. So he did this with the baby, who lapped up the attention and began to gurgle in delight. difficult child 3 kept stopping to ask the baby, "Where do you think Spot is hiding? IS he under the table?" and waiting for a verbal response from the baby. difficult child 3 just did not understand that the baby was unable to respond. I could see this, but a casual observer would have thought difficult child 3 was just being sweet, and pretending.

    The thing is - when our children do not distinguish different status, they will apply the same standards of behaviour they experience, back to the same person. So an adult who stands there, hands on hips and says, "Because I said so, that's why!" will get the same behaviour back from the child. A teacher who removes a point from a child for misbehaviour or inattention is likely to have something precious removed by the child in retaliation for "bad behaviour". Or likely to get scolded by the child. When you hear your own phrases coming back at you, you need to learn to modify your behaviour.

    These children learn by imitating what we model. Now, you might think that if you ease back on the reins, anarchy will break loose. But with these kids, that's the positive payoff. Often, easing back and focussing on setting the child a good behaviour model will result in improved behaviour. If the child slips up, don't scold. Instead, stop. Ask the child to do it over, copying you. For example, difficult child 3 when distracted or busy with his schoolwork will call me and say, "Fix my lunch."
    he doesn't mean to be rude so I don't scold or punish. But I also don't accept this. Instead I say, "If you want me to fix your lunch, you have to ask me nicely. Ask again, and this time say 'please'." I modelled it for him, he then repeats it, I then go and fix his lunch. When I bring it, I don't let go the plate until he says, "Thank you." If he begins to get angry because I won't let go the plate, I prompt. "You need to learn to say 'thank you, mum'."

    This is a different approach and will especially work if your child is somewhere on the spectrum. If your child is not, but for whatever other reason has disordered or delayed social interactions, this will also work better for you.

    i applaud your idea of going to the park with her. Even if you take a good book and sit on the bench while she plays, it puts you in supervision and, frankly, kids like ours often need supervision in order that we may continue to prompt appropriate behaviour in social interactions.

    A book we recommend a lot is "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene. it gives you a different way of looking at the situation. The thing is - normal discipline methods work well on normal kids, but not on all kids. The Ross Greene methods will also work on normal kids, but are a way of sometimes fast-tracking the child's strength of will into earlier and functional independence. Instead of fighting the child's determination, it uses it as a tool in a positive way. After all, properly channelled, such strength of will can be the individual's best asset later in life.

  19. exhausted

    exhausted Active Member

    Hi and welcome Liz.
    You could be describing my son at her age. He's now 23 and doing very well. When he was young everything was an issue! One of the things that helped us the most was early identification and intervention. We had a neuropsychologist. evaluation and a multidisiplinary team involved. We did use pretty strict and behavioral interventions-these worked for him. We also saw a counselor for years. Anything he wanted we made earnable. We set criteria that he could achieve and as his skills at being less oppositional developed, we made things more challenging for him to earn. It meant that we had to be pretty consistant, but I found this less draining than fighting with him. Two of my favorite reads were the Tough Kid Tool Box, by Bill Jensen and The Difficult Child by Tireki (spelling?). They are pretty old books now, but I still have found them hard to beat. My son was first diagnosed with ADHD and ODD at age 4. ( He was medicated by age 5) A year later we found that he had sensory integration issues. He still will only wear cotton shirts and shorts(even in the snow), but has learned to deal with his mechanic uniform. He also had vestibular disturbance-trouble coordinating left and right side-now this has played out in him being a fabulous drummer! He took a long time to get the training wheels off his bike-but he did do it! Still vomits if he goes on roller coasters however.

    Picking your battles is important, but I also think standing firm to rules is key. Once they see a hole in the rules, they will chip away at it. So pick some rules (only a few) you know you can stick to. Lay out the consequences and hold firm. If she loves the park-deside how she earns it and when she can collect that reward. Delay of gratification is tough at this age and double tough for our difficult children-so make it reasonable so she can see the" fruits of her labors" before she just gives up (lack of perseverence is another issue). By the way-almost none of this was needed with my daughter-she was well behaved until puberty when some abuse issues surfaced and PTSD reared it's ugly head. When we tried being firm and consistant and holding to rules-she got worse. So....every kid is different.

    You've gotten some good advise on the board. Getting that evaluation is the order of the day. It will help you and you'll have direction. Hang in there and take care of yourself.