Relationship Patterns / Dysfunctional FOO Issues

Discussion in 'Family of Origin' started by Scent of Cedar *, Oct 27, 2015.

  1. Scent of Cedar *

    Scent of Cedar * Well-Known Member

    Good Morning, Everybody


    As I have healed, I have learned two very important things through my relationships ~ to D H, to my children and grands, to my rotten, shunning prone, forever messed up Family of Origin. In absentia, in the case of my FOO, as I am being shunned again.

    What. These people have nothing better to do?!?

    Copa posted to me that maybe I am still quite the focus for my FOO, especially in absentia. Good, I say.


    Where was I going with this. What were the two things I learned?


    Well, I don't remember what they were. But I do know this: I am coming to cherish and smile at myself so much of the time, now. This is what healed to this degree feels like. This is what internal locus of control to this degree feels like. I watch myself be so angry and I can't help but laugh at the intensity of it. Or I become aware of sputtering word searches for worse bad words and it seems hilarious to be me. But I keep word searching.

    How funny is that?

    So, I would like to begin progressing along those paths, again.

    In any event, everybody, especially now that we know Serenity (SWOT) is doing well, I am all at once refocusing on my FOO. (Hats off to nlj. You know what I am picturing with that sentence. :O)

    For heaven's sake.

    I would like to continue researching and learning and progressing in our understanding of how we perceive as we do, and in our learning to cherish and forgive and celebrate our selves; to celebrate the self that we are, and the wonder of having a life, of being alive, and the simplest sincerity that is presence.

    So, here is some research about those very things. I would like the emphasis of this thread to be the changing quality of our relationships, to other people but most crucially to ourselves as we heal. I believe that we (women) set the emotional tones of our relationships. If and when we truly want them changed...they change. I could be all wet on this theory, because look what happened with my Family of Origin when I said "I've changed. I will be requiring different behaviors from you in future."

    This has not gone well for me.

    Everyone in my FOO turned Monty Python and essentially, told me exactly what I could do with my Grail quest.

    Or roar, how embarrassing.

    But now that I am through it, oh, the difference in the way I see myself, and in the way I understand the world to work.

    Here are quotes on Abuse Recovery.

    Here is Monty Python, which can work for our changing relationships in all aspects of our lives, not just FOO.

    Here is Rocky, because none of this is easy. We will need to be brave, and determined. We must be patient and kind to ourselves, and have mercy for our mistakes.

  2. New Leaf

    New Leaf Well-Known Member

    Cedar, I shall have to write more later, my work forces me to be quick.

    I watched the Monty Python bit, humor in the face of darkness. How utterly perfect, or should I say udderly. The cows, those flying cows. It will help me get through the day, those Frenchmen hurling cows.

    Thank you Cedar, for being you.


    I am thinking of how entertainment helps to get us through. Perhaps the MP Knights riding their invisible horses hurled me back to those days of antiquity...... and the jugglers.

    Jugglers with their colorful, bell edged, three pointed hats.

    Juggling all kinds of utilitarian, and sometimes dangerous objects.

    We look at them in awe, fascination and admiration.

    But you know, they are really us.

    All of us going through this life, juggling so many different things.

    We are amazed at these jugglers and their feats of wonder.

    And they are us.

    Thank you Cedar.
  3. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Hi Cedar and New Leaf

    I am wondering if I am on strike from life because I do not want to leave my family. I have wondered that before. My mother is here in my house with me. What remains of her.

    I have to some extent separated from my sister--in the sense that she does not loom so large in my head, terrorizing me.

    But I wonder if actually triumphing in my life (would that would mean, here, is to clean and leave my house, for starters, and begin to achieve goals) feels to me to be leaving my family and my home as if was when I was a child.

    There must have been a strong, strong prohibition within me to not do so. And there must have been a strong, strong desire, equally strong.

    I am wondering if this is why it was so meaningful for me to leave the country. And I nursed that desire for many, many years.

    But at that time my mother was not dead and my sister did not hate me because I had triumphed over her.

    I have to go right now to do something.

    I am very, very happy you have begun this thread, Cedar. I will focus my CD time on it. Thank you.

  4. Scent of Cedar *

    Scent of Cedar * Well-Known Member

    So the answer to whatever it is that is pulling you so savagely in two opposing directions will be found through listening to the tale the child within tells.

    She will tell it in symbols Copa, as you know.

    What would you learn Copa, if you read the symbols in the choice of the recently purchased jewelry. The answer will be like a mosaic ~ will be that well hidden. There is something powerful there for you, Copa. Those things you loved enough to purchase, you despise yourself for having chosen. Either way, you cannot win. There is the punishment, intended from the beginning, of the overwhelming task of reviling yourself as you send each of your choices back. Every one of them, somehow wrong. Mother would have chosen differently. One of the purchases went to your son. He enjoyed having received it. Your response...there is something there for you, Copa.

    One of the purchases had to do with this site.

    If you were to review the choice of purchases in that light, Copa...the patterns there will create a kind of collage. The collage will be so hurtful. Those are the feelings that little girl who was you is carrying right now all by herself.

    Remember the poetry about the prisoner? And the stars, the destined recognition after a time of separation, the coming together, the coming whole, a foretold thing?

    That is where you are now I think, Copa.


    When the tiles of that mosaic, first composed in blood on stone
    fall seamlessly together ~ revealing no face, but her own...
    Then Witch and Child, awakened, repossess the cauldron
    and claim the loom

    Reweaving tales first told in ancient blood
    on stone.


    The little girl that I was is still frozen at the broken places in me, too. It is as though time stopped, for her. I have described her shame at being seen by me. I have described her disbelief that she is me.

    I admire her so, Copa. She has been very, very strong. Very brave.

    Entirely alone.

    I have described assuring her that, as I am here now, so I was always there, even then. I hated her, Copa, because I had been taught to hate her, had been taught to feel shame for her, to find her ugly. None of those things were true Copa, but until I could see her through my own loving eyes, I could only see her through the eyes of the abuser, abusing her.

    I had to separate from her, to survive it, Copa.

    I will stand with you now, Copa. I will witness for you, as Maya did, for me. Or, choose us both. Read Maya, understanding that she chose her story of self and then, made it true and changed the world for us all.

    Even for me, Copa.

    And I know she would want that for me, just as I want that, for you.

    Or choose Peter Breggin, the writer you admire. Choose someone strong, someone who can stand for that child that was you without flinching. I needed to see the eyes of the witness, to see how wrong what was happening to me, or to my sibs, was.

    I did not know it was wrong to treat me like that, Copa. For the worst things, I did not know how to see it. That is what the witnesses did. They saw, and I saw them see.

    So let's do that, then.

    You may even borrow my mother, Dr Ben Carson.


    His are some loving eyes, delighted with all that is and yet, very much aware of what is a wrongness. That is all we need to know, Copa: What happened to us was a wrongness, was a wrong thing, was a failed thing, dirtied and torn, from its inception. It has nothing to do with the abuser. It is not about accusing or naming or hatred. It is about coming through it. It is about carrying something our abusers would never have wished for us in their right minds or we would not have survived our childhoods, Copa.

    Many children do not.

    We did.

    We were loved; cherished. Our abusers would not wish to hurt us as they did.

    White candles, in an Innocent's mirror

    That is all the light you need, Copa.

    We are meant to heal; we are meant to be whole and strong. Nothing is served, anymore, through abiding by the unspoken rules that serviced the tragedy that is family dysfunction.

    There was nothing normal about what happened to us, Copa. This means we are free the second we declare it.


    The second question I have Copa has to do with your choice of the word triumphing; with the defiance in it.

    "...begin to achieve goals"

    Copa. You have achieved remarkable things on many different levels and in widely divergent areas: Education. Mothering. Dance. Needlework. Writing.

    Add the incredible work you do, here.


    Is there imagery coming up around this, Copa? Remember that last dream you posted for us? Does that fit, here?

    When you post: "triumphing in my life...feels to me to be leaving my family and my home as if was when I was a child." I see your determination to move to another state, and your agony over how to care for your dogs, if you do. That fits, here. That is a piece Copa, a mosaic piece, the way you feel about your dogs and the move. I see...almost a sense of punishing yourself Copa, whether you do take action, or whether you don't.

    How fortunate we are to see this time, and not to let it go unexplored.
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2015
  5. Scent of Cedar *

    Scent of Cedar * Well-Known Member

    How interesting, Leafy. I do not remember the jugglers. I will have to look for them. Did you see the peasant bailing out the drainage ditch? I caught that the first time I saw the clip.

    To me, that is my brother.

    I just don't remember the jugglers. Isn't that something.

    To me, the invisible horses represent pretense, represent "how it looks" even when we seem more ridiculous because we are behaving as though we have what we need, when we so horribly do not. I love it that the French "already got one. Oh yes, it's very nice."

    I love that part.

    I love it when the Knight asks a question and the Frenchman tells him to go away.

    Lil and Jabber were the first to post that clip, Leafy. We have had an enormous amount of fun with it. And then, we found it so apt a representation for FOO Chronicles.

    I still can't get over the differences in the ways you and I saw the clip.

    I will watch it now, and see what I think about the jugglers.


    I love: "I fart in your general direction!"

  6. Scent of Cedar *

    Scent of Cedar * Well-Known Member

    When you watch the Rocky clip, envision yourself, as Rocky runs through the city streets, running through your past; reviewing past trauma. The trashcan on fire, the people cheering Rocky on as he begins just for the courage of the fight in him. Electing to go back, to revisit traumatic events ~ this is how it feels.

    We stay humble. We know there are no guarantees. We take the hits.

    And we win.

  7. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Cedar, I am looking for the prisoner poem and cannot find it in your posts. Can you point me to where it might be or post again the relevant part? Thank you.

    I am afraid to be on the computer. M came home calm but in an intense voice remarked I was on the computer again. How did he know? He says I am ignoring essential things and that consequently we are going backwards, not forwards.

    I will begin to look at my purchases as clues and try to piece it together. I will find a way to respond later to your post, Cedar. Remember, I am needing to be covert. That makes me resentful.

    M has a right to express his feelings and his concerns. But it feels infantilizing and judgmental. I feel like locking the bedroom door to have privacy.

    The thing is this: You cannot separate the medium from the message. If his way of thinking and asserting himself is direct and powerful, is it reasonable to expect and to ask him to communicate in a soft and soothing and deferential manner? Or is the answer some other thing?

    Is it 100 per cent his responsible for changing his method of communication so that it does not have this effect on me?

    When I am remiss from the beginning, and he is doing his part? I do not know.

    Or do I need to be strong enough to bear his style? Or a combination?

    Last edited: Oct 27, 2015
  8. New Leaf

    New Leaf Well-Known Member

    Copa I think that just through the wondering of it, and the work of examining your reasons as to "why you are on strike from life" is a giant step in a direction that will be helpful to you.

    To look back at painful times is a difficult thing.
    Change is a difficult thing.
    You are strong and accomplished and brave Copa.

    This is what I try to tell the hubs. The delivery is quite lacking, when there is any communication.
    Direct and powerful, comes across at times as demeaning and demanding.
    The hubs can turn off the Chinese waitress voice when he is speaking on the phone or talking with strangers.
    Do we become comfortable old house slippers? Is this somehow a form of cruel compliment that men speak to us as they do?
    Having "conquered" us by becoming their mates, is it no longer necessary to attempt to be nice, soothing, respectful?
    I have asked these same questions Copa. The hubs has become grumpier with age and time. I think he takes it for granted we have been together so long.
    I had to show the hubs and myself that I was worthy of much more.

    This does not mean that he changed, I changed. And I am still changing.

    It is the Towanda effect.

    Now I don't recommend crashing repeatedly into someones car (though, darn it looks like fun and some people really deserve that lesson!) Or, breaking down walls in the house. Growing in confidence, breaking the shackles of roles and patterning, yes. Not allowing people to walk all over me, emphatically yes.

    What I have found from these many years with the hubs is that men don't change when we ask them.

    We can change in how we react and respond to them.
    I used to get all tied up in knots and frustrated, my innards twisting with his intensity and tension.

    Then, I learned how to "create the bubble" and let his mood swings bounce off, to stop reacting to them.
    It is freeing, not to be so entrenched. If he is going to be sharp and curt with me, out of the room, I go.
    And it puzzles him. I have become a mystery to him.

    Be the mystery. Be yourself. Value yourself and love yourself.
    Because in the end all of it, the only people we can change is ourselves.

  9. New Leaf

    New Leaf Well-Known Member

    Oh Cedar, I hope that you did not look to hard for the jugglers, there were none.
    I was trying to say in my hurrying to post before work, that the King Arthur bit took me to the ancient timeframe of court Jesters and jugglers. I suppose the humor of it all helped with that, and my struggling, juggling to pry myself from the grip of sadness at the news of my Mom.

    I was thinking of how much I have been juggling these past years, and how, it has all been so serious. The vision of court jesters and jugglers kept popping in my head. The symbolism of their mastery at handling so many different objects with ease.

    I went off on a tangent which is just me, and I fear it sent you on a fruitless quest to find the jugglers. I shall have to look for the peasant bailing the drainage ditch.

    My sister is the cow thrower.
    The expression "Having a cow", I wonder is it from this Monty Python piece?
    She is always having a cow.
    Going off on this or that, and everyone around is supposed to act accordingly to her tantrums.

    I hope you did not look too hard for the jugglers that were not there.
  10. New Leaf

    New Leaf Well-Known Member

    When we detach from our D c's is it a form of shunning?

    I think more of it as shunning their behaviors.
  11. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    New Leaf,

    I loved the film clip Towanda.

    I lived almost my whole life alone, except for my child. I did what I wanted, when I wanted, with nobody at all to satisfy.

    Living with somebody that you care about is a trade off. Sometimes it is hard to know if it is worth it. Sometimes it is hard to know if it is the right person. And then you change. Or try to. And things get really hard.

    I believe M wants me to be strong and wants me get up and take responsibility for my life and myself. He wants it for himself and for me.

    At the same time M has traits that are difficult. He can be bossy and critical. He can explode quickly. He can be reactive. He is direct. He lets me know loud and clear when he has had too much.

    I am not afraid of him but I get afraid when he is in a bad mood or when he is mad.

    He has changed a great deal already, in these past 6 years. He has done so to be a better man, and to make our relationship work.

    Part of being in a relationship is trying my best not just for me, but for him, and for us.
    I am seeing that it is not fair to him or to my self to continue stagnating, when it is within my capacity to do better and to do more.

    I am not a mean person or a selfish person. But I have been selfish. I understand why he would feel as he does. I think he has tried to contain himself and to be patient and non-critical with me, so that I move at my own speed.

    But enough is enough. I am hearing him.

    I will try to do positive things every day and if I face barriers, to do my best to find help and support to work them through.

    Thank you very much for the video. I very much enjoyed it.

    I am thinking about the end when she confronts her husband. The husband was wrong to unilaterally set the limit about her friend, without talking or negotiating, like a father, not a partner. At the same time, there has to be give on both sides.
    That is what I am trying to negotiate in myself.

    My mother would not live with her boyfriend or marry him for the duration of their 20 year relationship. She wanted one hundred percent control of her space and her life. She saw marriage as an economic arrangement and because she would not gain financially she saw no reason to give up any autonomy or control.

    It is hard to figure out where I am in this continuum. I am not my mother. Nor am I the heroine in the movie. I am not my old self, either. The reality is I do not know where I stand.

    I have been buying a lot of jewelry on Ebay. It has felt compulsive. In response to Cedar's post I have been trying to look at it as a mosaic. To try to see what I have trying to work out or to represent by these purchases.

    Up until now, I have seen the buying itself as the important part--kind of like gambling. I am doing this for the rush. Sometimes when the packages come I do not even open them for days.

    The endeavor began because I am trying to assemble a wardrobe that will work for our trip.

    For 2 years I have pretty much worn one set of clothing, Summer and Winter, washing it every night. I have a huge closet full of clothes and money to buy more. The issue was something other than economic.

    I have been trying to create a persona for myself. This person who is changed from what she was but who does not fully exist in her new form.

    I am seeing that what I am doing is trying to work out identity issues. I am trying things out as "me." Who is this new person? What will she wear and how will she be seen?

    So in this wandering through jewelry reality I have bought Mexican Sterling and Deco and Scottish Turkish and Fruit Salad and Aurora Borealis and 60's flower power and Native American Cabochons and 80's earrings, etc. You get the drift. I even bought a cheap Cameo. At least half I have returned.

    I took a little internet quiz tonight: Learn your jewelry style. I turned out to be Vintage Classic, which is consistent to what my buying has evolved.

    There have been times in my life when I have had pretty clothes and was well put out but I have never had a time where I was "put together," in the sense that I have thought about each component of my, bag, jewelry and outfit.

    I typically used one bag, and a few pair of shoes. One pair of earrings. That was it.

    For some reason the idea of becoming a woman who can be put these various components has become a huge goal.

    Yet this person who does this does not exist. Only the stuff does.

    Last year I did the same thing with stuff: I bought scuba and surfing and fishing and camping and a spinning wheel, and looms and yarn of all types and art materials...and cameras...props to make the kind of life I wanted...

    All the time I was in bed.

    It felt at that time that it was a destructive act, some kind of sublimation of energies...when I was in reality doing nothing. And using money that was not coming in.

    But part of me thought that I was working as I bought. Working both to overcome what I was going through, the intense mourning and sorrow, and at the same time building a bridge to the other side, to the person who I would need to be when the mourning ended.

    I will end now. But I will add first: I ceded to my mother and sister many, many qualities and capacities. That may have been part of me. Or may have been who I would have been had I been supported and seen. I was neither supported nor seen.
    I would have sought a great deal of attention as a woman. I would have displayed and exhibited my talents and what beauty I had. I would have been witty and confident. More than I was. I would have focused on my appearance and cultivated.

    I would have been dramatic. I may have been a diva.

    I do not know why I think all of this, but I do.

    I am not sorry for the life I led, because it was mine. And it is mine. But I want more.

  12. New Leaf

    New Leaf Well-Known Member

    I am glad you enjoyed the clip, I love the movie Fried Green Tomatoes.

    Your life is so different now Copa.
    Yes Copa, this is so true. It is a constant, beautiful struggle, this relationship thing. We each come into it with our own experiences and perspectives. Then there is the great difference between men and women. Men can be hard to understand.
    In your postings of M, it sounds to me that he loves you very much, Copa.

    This is the hubs, too. Except he is not "wordy". He tires quickly at emoting. It seems as if sometimes, he tries to draw me into battle, he wants to whip up my feelings, toying with me. I have to be careful not to fall into that trap.
    I think that is from his FOO, very troubled times, they had. He wants better for his children, but at times the patterns came through, as if he needed to re-feel the drama of his past. Strange.
    Hubs can be downright mean, extremes he goes to. I let him know when he is wrong. At times, I leave the house, because I know his mood is bad. Full moons, I can expect some drama from him.
    He has diabetes, and when his blood sugar is low, he is very crabby, this he cannot help. So I try to get him to eat, and then wait. He has health issues and does not have the vitality of his youth. I know this bothers him. I think we all struggle with aging. How did it happen so fast?

    I feel the same Copa, then I realized what I was afraid of, was my reaction to his moods, how I could sink so quickly with his outbursts, or his sullenness. I had to change that.
    Yes, Copa, it is a lot of work and soul searching to be in a long term relationship. How different this must be for you, having lived your life so long by yourself. You must love M very much.
    This is good Copa, seeing this.

    Good Copa, that is good resolve. A little at a time. Healing is hard work.

    Yes, we all long for partnership. In this age, men are not supposed to "Lord" over women. Compromise and understanding. You have come so far Copa, you will get there.

    You are not your mother. In your posts here on CD, I see your empathy and compassion for others. I am sure the same good energy, you bring to your relationship.
    It is okay to wonder who we are. We are in a different rite of passage when our parents pass. It becomes a whole new era, a time of discovery.
    Shopping therapy, that's what my sister and I call it. Mom was a shopper. From one of your posts, you mentioned your Mom shopping and trying things on, while you watched your sister. Do we learn this from our Mothers? Is it a feminine trait, man the hunter, we the gatherers? Is it a deep subconscious need, or are we victims of the world of consumerism, convinced by advertising, subliminal, and outlandish, that if we just had this or that, we would be better?
    You are in a cocoon, waiting to blossom into your butterfly self, Copa.

    I know this feeling Copa.
    My issue is the picture in my head does match the image in the mirror.
    What does aging gracefully mean?
    How do I view myself, dress myself, when I do not recognize that lady in the mirror?

    I am sorry, that all sounds very yummy to me. I love silver. I must look up Fruit Salad? Aurora Borealis?
    I do know this feeling of making purchases that somehow, momentarily fill an emptiness, it is the excitement of getting it, not having it, or even needing it.
    I struggle with this too, Copa.

    My Nana was well put together. Matching jewelry sets, hair always done up, matching shoes, purses.
    Fashion, style. I have noticed the industry is continually changing the "look" to get us to buy more, to keep up with the styles. Now, I go for the bohemian, the aging hippy, I am. Oh, and I want to be comfortable, too.
    It is okay, Copa. You are seeing this, writing of it. Part of healing and changing is recognizing that.
    You were creating a future for yourself, with stuff. The future was in you, all of the time, and it still is, Copa. We fall victim to the imagery advertisement poses. Trying to fill the empty spaces. When all along we are avoiding addressing what we are trying to fill. The more we buy, the less we are fulfilled, the more we buy. It becomes a vicious cycle of patterning.
    In writing of this, you and I, we, can conquer the habit, or put it to good use and become personal shoppers (joking).
    You have done a lot of work here Copa, and you have made me look at myself. Thank you for that. It is a good thing.
    Poor Amazon, not my friend anymore.

    You are hard on yourself, Copa, I am sure you are still most beautiful.

    You have much more life left in you Copa. And you can have more, the world is your oyster.

    I love these women, they really like themselves, and don't seem to worry what others think.

    I want to watch this documentary-these ladies fascinate me.

    and this

    I am going to continue to work at downsizing and looking through my "stuff" and cleaning out my house.
    I am going to look at doing, rather than buying.
    I do not have much money anyway.
    Art museums, walks on the beach, painting, drawing, sculpting, writing.

    My hubs, will be very happy with that.
  13. Scent of Cedar *

    Scent of Cedar * Well-Known Member

    Abide by the terms of whatever your agreement with M was I think, Copa. Integrity to ourselves is an important part of our healing. As you agreed to do things a certain way, then try very hard to meet the terms of the agreement you made. This helps us to stay present, and to maintain internal, versus external, locus of control in the following ways: We do not promise things we don't want to do to please someone else. We learn to consider our words and take ourselves seriously.

    That is a big step for us, to stop being the nice, pliable guy.

    When we stay present through the difficult process of saying "no", we are learning to respect ourselves, and to mean what we say. We learn we can speak calmly, and that we can take time to think.

    So, for all those reasons, this will be a good time to abide by whatever the terms of your agreement with M for a specified time. Say, three days. Then, think how you feel. If you wish to change the agreement, say so. Once you are present Copa, once you have internal locus of control, M's behaviors will be M's behaviors, and will have nothing to do with you.

    This is for you. It is coming now because you are ready.

    I would like to see M treat you more kindly, but if you have made an agreement, then you should abide by it not for his sake, but for your own.

    This is an excellent exercise for you, Copa.

    I did things like that this summer, now that I think about it. It was part of telling myself the truth about my childhood, and about who was the liar, here.
    Remember my going through that? Reclaiming the right to my integrity was a piece of that.

    Probably Copa, that is what is happening for you now, too.

    It was a confusing time, as all times of change are. But I tried to do what I said I would. Or I would say, very clearly, that I would not do whatever it was. This was an important part of that time of growth.

    We were brought up to people please.

    Knowing the right thing when it comes to pleasing ourselves is tough.

    We are learning now to please ourselves, and to trust ourselves to know what does please us. Remember when I would post about that family dinner and how much I wanted it? And then, as I came through the part about lies and integrity, I realized that dinner had so little to do with pleasing myself. It had to do with the fantasy that somehow, everything was going to be okay.

    And along about then, I realized I don't exactly know what pleases me.

    Isn't that something.

    But reclaiming our "no" is a good place to start. That means honoring our agreements or facing up to speaking up, and we can do that so easily, Copa.

    We will be here, if you decided to break away for a little bit and come back.

  14. Scent of Cedar *

    Scent of Cedar * Well-Known Member

    This woman is 83. She has frequent appointments with skin care specialists and so on, but still. Her greatest beauty secret: Bag Balm

    The link didn't work. Her name is Carmen Dell' Orefice.

    Other things I learned this morning after reading your post, Leafy:

    To decrease undereye swelling:

    (2) tablespoons kept in fridge. Let them warm for a minute and then, place over the eyes. Or, used green tea bags. Same thing. Keep them in the fridge, place them over the eyes for 15 minutes.

    Rosemary is excellent for fluid retention.

    Olive oil makes an excellent facial cleanser. Apply to dry skin, remove with warm, wet cloth, repeat. Then, toner and moisturizer.

    Masque: Yogurt with one teaspoon olive oil.

    Masque: Green tea from two teabags. Mix with avocado.

    Masque: One tablespoon used coffee grounds, one tablespoon milk and one of honey. This is supposed to reduce facial swelling.

    I will try each of these and report back.


  15. nlj

    nlj Well-Known Member

    My step-daughter's birth mother was/is an alcoholic with other addictive issues. When H and I married and bought a house together we had to clear out both our respective homes. H's attic was packed to the rafters with bags of unopened shopping, clothes, plates, necklaces, bags, shoes, it went on and on and on. She hired a van, took what she could. She went off in the van with all her stuff and left her daughter behind. H and I took the rest to a charity that raises money for a children's hospice. There was so much stuff. H was shocked at the extent of it. He had cleared her credit-card debt so had some inkling but there was so much. I was bewildered. Several years later in the family court she referred to all this stuff. She said shopping made her feel "normal". She said she had to fill her home with all this stuff to make her home perfect; she needed to surround herself with mountains of lovely things. She hasn't seen her daughter since she was 3 months old.
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2015
  16. New Leaf

    New Leaf Well-Known Member

    Shockingly, I use "Heeltastic" ii is a balm with tea tree oil meant for the heels. It works wonders! Putting my best foot and face forward so to speak, heh,heh.
  17. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Cedar, I have pictures of her on my computer.

    I google "beautiful older women" and she comes up.

    New Leaf, thank you for your post and your support. I have not yet watched the videos but anticipate it gleefully.

    I have to go and do stuff but I want to write a little about the dream I had so that I do not forget it completely:

    I went to my cousin's for dinner. We are the age we are now, at least within 15 years of it. She is living in Berkeley (where she never lived but I did). She is anticipating having guests. My mother is alive but is old and ill and is in a back bedroom. She never appears in the dream. For some reason my cousin gives me high heeled boots. I think they are red-brown colored. I know definitely they are very high heeled and go almost to my knee.

    I am not close to this cousin who lives in the town where I live. We only see each other if we bump into each other.

    She asks me to help her by going to buy meat for the group. 2 Tri Tip roasts and chicken legs. My son is with me. We buy the meat and forget the chicken legs.
    It turns out OK.

    At some point this morphs first morphs into an exam of some sort to assess proficiency (I am with 2 friends from the past, but become separated from them. I cannot remember who). And then it morphs into a my going to a huge gay pride/identity convention in a big stadium.

    People are categorized into 3 groups. One group, I remember, are completely gay-identified. The second group I cannot remember, but they are more ambiguous. The third is more conventional.

    I remember being celebrated because I am a mother. I remember feeling very good about myself, very connected to and happy to be with the people close to me, who I did not know. I remember being very afraid I would lose my boots which had fallen down below me, and my leather motorcycle jacket, as well (I have two. Really.) I was also afraid I would fall down into the stadium below me.

    There were wonderful, heartfelt speeches. One was by a man that people said was close to death. He spoke about having been homeless and lost. He had made himself into a greatly esteemed person with a greatly meaningful life. He was a representative of the highly-identified completely gay group. I remember being so moved by him and his speech. A woman spoke, too. I remember having a very favorable response, too.

    The event ended and as we were leaving (I had found my boots) filed out, a large group of the esteemed and well-identified participants (whatever that means) had filed out and were waiting next to the wall, to reenter when they were able. I remember seeing the faces of so many people I had known somewhat in my life, who I had not known or accepted were gay.

    At some point I was walking with 3 women from Finland who remarked they had not known themselves (I mean, each other) before they came to America. I wondered at the time if they were associated with Suzir (who posts here.)

    I remember thinking that my identity was so much more fluid then I had ever believed. More encompassing. It had not to do with sexual identity, but with identity and acceptance of myself and others.

    I remember M was outside waiting for me and joined me. I felt anchored. This felt good and bad. Like he was cramping my style because he is so certain and solid in his identity, and near him I am fixed, too. At the same time I felt a certain security. Like with him I would be less likely to wander off to gay pride conventions where I would get confused.

    And then he woke me up. I wish he hadn't. I liked this place I was at.


    PS If anybody is a meat eater I have a wonderful recipe for Tri Tip.
  18. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Ummm.... OK, will confess to being a meat eater but... beef is beyond our budget.
  19. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Who can afford it, now? I am speaking from memory, about tri tip.

    Costco sells a cut of tri tip which is untrimmed. About a year and a half ago, I remember it was less than $3 a pound. It has doubled in price. The last time I got it, I splurged and paid just under $5 a pound. Unlike all the prior times the underside was pure fat. Perhaps a third of the piece was fat.

    We love beef. And I used to love lamb and veal. I grew up on those meats. They are a distant memory.

    I can imagine how gross a post this is to some people. I am sorry. I am even grossing myself out.

    But I seem unable to stop myself. Cedar, I seem to be morphing into D H.

    We eat meat or chicken at nearly every evening meal. M's preference. We buy our beef at the Mexican market now where I can get the special for $3.79 a pound. Strangely, I find the best and cheapest roasting chicken at Walmart--they sell Tyson, not the Foster Farms which is locally sold. I used to shop at a poultry store and the Tyson is as good.

  20. New Leaf

    New Leaf Well-Known Member

    Oh she is divine isn't she?
    The women in the videos have their own style, character, grace. What shines through is their utmost comfort with themselves. How wonderful to love yourself completely enough to set your own style away from conventionalism, to not worry about what others think of you, to establish your own sense of yourself, they are gloriously, completely themselves.
    I shall have to work on this.

    I have not had vivid dreams (or have had them but don't remember them?)for quite some time. This dream you write of Copa is very detailed. What are dreams? Are they our subconscious minds reaching out to us as we sleep? Are they messages?
    This seems connected to what you are reviewing in your own life, your thoughts and memories of your mother, and your own life, as you wrote, having lived on your own most of your life, until you had your son. Connected and happy to be with people close to you, who you did not know, is that us, Copa? How did M put it, friends on the computer, who you don't even know?
    Are these speeches remnants of your mind reviewing what is written on CD?
    Perhaps this is your mind working as you sleep, working at you breaking free from your cocoon and emerging into your butterfly self?

    Interesting M anchoring you, the good and bad of it.

    I remember vivid dreaming and waking up feeling that the dream was not finished. It has been awhile since that has happened to me.
    Dreams are so intriguing. Our minds, still busy working, working as we sleep.

    I shall have to work at sleeping, I evade it at times, and it evades me. Sleep is so very important. Today, I felt particularly exhausted.
    I fell asleep in the late afternoon and woke up in complete darkness, the clock said 6:30, my mind was completely groggy and confused. Was it am or pm? It took a few moments for me to realize it was the evening.
    Now, I cannot sleep. I will pay for this dearly, tomorrow at about 1:00 pm at work. I wish I was in Spain. How lovely to have a nap after lunch. How smart.