So angry I could spit nails...need input please!

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by carolanne, Feb 15, 2008.

  1. carolanne

    carolanne Member

    Okay....I get a call from pcs principal yesterday to please come in right away I have your daughter in my office and it's extremely important. I asked is it really as I am very very sick(which is easy to tell as barely a whisper for a voice) and he says yes there has been a list...which I take to mean there is a hit list at the school again and daughter is on it.

    So I throw on some decent clothes and run off to the school. I don't drive and it's minus 32 here so it's bloody cold and I am coughing and wheezing and feeling like throwing up by the time I get there....just to sit there and cool my heels for 20 mins.

    Principal hands me a printout that is highlighted in several's a msn conversation between two girls. He goes on to inform me the conversation was brought to him by a third girl and they are concerned. According to this girl and her mom, my daughter and her friend threatened to kill this other it so far? I ask daughter if this is true and she said no and I've tried to tell him the conversation has been added to but principal keeps cutting me off and yelling at me.

    I talk and try to get things straightened out...turns out the conversation didn't occur at school but at this other girl's home and was brought in. I said I have msn log files at home and will check them and take daughter and leave as principal is being an idiot and not listening to anyone, just keeps saying police have been called and charges are pending.

    Come home and check the logs...hmmmm...seem to be different so I contact daughter's friend's mom and she checks her logs too...hmmm different too from what principal has. We both print off and go back to the school and he insists he has the correct one although it's easy now to see it's been heavily editted and added to, including the threat....none of the fonts and emoticons come close to what is in our logs...he suspends the girls anyway.

    We contact the police and they said there is no offence and it did oocur outside of school and is no concern of the school and it is apparent to them that we are in the right.

    However...sorry it's so long ladies...the girls are still suspended and principal is still saying the girls uttered a threat and they will be charged.

    We have contacted a lawyer and the police as well as the school board and there is an appointment nexr week...but principal is sticking to his guns...oh by the way, this principal just had a cyber bullying workshop at school recently...ahhhh now it's making sense right?

    My girl is a straight A student and no black mark on her record...until now....and he is definately on a witch hunt as other teachers have said daughter is a great student with the rare occasion of mouth/attitude for which she always writes an apology for....

    What would you do? Home school or send her back for the rest of the year? We can't transfer schools, no other one close enough and we don't drive...bus fare would really strain us as oldest easy child is in high school and it's costing $100 a month already to send her by bus....argh...

  2. daralex

    daralex Clinging onto my sanity

    I don't even know where to start!!! I'm so mad!!!!!!! What an idioT I would pursue this as far as you can take it. He is wrong and more so interfering with daughter's education and mental well-being! I'm all for protecting against cyber-bullying and punishing those that cross that line, but he obvoiusly wasn't going to listen to a word anyone said! He should be held responsible for his actions!!
    As far as homeschooling - I'm doing it this year, but unless you want to completely lose your mind I would think twice!! Trust me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I would see how far you can go to fix this and make a decision about it after. I do think that the girl(s) responsible for doing this should be suspended and punished to the farthest extent. I am so frustrated and angry for you and daughter. Don't get mad - get even!!! :furious:
  3. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Sounds like the principal is an idiot being easily taken advantage of by someone who doesn't like these girls.

    I think you are doing all you CAN, at this point. I would insist the lawyer and Superintendent of Schools (don't mess with ANYONE else if you can go straight to the top) take this mark off your daughter's record.

    homeschooling is a possibility, depends on how you and daughter function, but it IS a viable school choice. Chances are your state has an online homeschool for highschool, most do by now.

    I WOULD try to get a statement from someone with authority in the police dept AND the District Attorney's office that there will NOT be charges filed. You may have to get to the DA FIRST, before the idiot principal tries. Make sure they have a copy of your log, the other parent's and what the principal showed you. If he did NOT give you a copy of the log he is working off of, be sure to insist that you get a copy. I believe you have a right to one.

    I am so sorry. This is just stupid, and I don't use that word lightly. Please be careful in what you say to this principal - it may be a good idea to send things notarized to him. Just to be sure neither he nor his staff make changes.



    ps. There are GOOD high school curriculums on-line, some can be done almost totally online.
  4. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    by the way, we are homeschooling for middle school and are far from losing our minds - but I homeschooled my difficult child for 3rd and 4th grades, now Jess for 6 and 7, and will problem do some time with thank you also. (NOT a plan, or something I EVER thought I would do, but it became a mental and educational and health necessity in each case.)

    It takes time to get homeschooling to work for you - years of "regular" schooling to rework.


  5. Star*

    Star* call 911

    Get it in writing.

    GO back to the school Mon or Tues - and ask the principal to put his suspension/reasons/motives in writing. Also ask for a copy of scheduled times that his bullying workshop is available. Get him to sign the suspension with reasons. Ask for a copy of your daughters school records, especially her grades and any infractions up to that day. Get a copy of the report you made with the police - if you don't have one - ask them to write one up on your daughters behalf of what they feel and advised you. Get that in writing with signatures that your messages are NOT altered. Get a copy of the other mothers MS email and take it to a notary and have it certified. Yours too. Stating that this message has not been altered in anyway.

    Next take that information to your attorney. I would find one that is versed in civil actions and rights. Get his opinion on the situation - and ask him what your next step is. I would also be calling the district superintendent and making an appointment with him - and take notes - write down times, dates, and ask if you can record the meeting. At the beginning of the tape state day, time and all names present. Then show them the evidence (overwhelming) and give them the option to reinstate your daughter or face legal ramifications. I would not bring up the fact that you feel principal is targeting these girls at this point. I WOULD show the sheet with times and dates of the bullying class and mention that your daughter has never been in trouble.

    I'm sorry for your situation - but I wouldn't home school.
  6. slsh

    slsh member since 1999

    I wouldn't homeschool because in essence, that's further punishing your daughter for nothing. I absolutely would get everything documented and fight like heck.

    In addition to the above, I'd request a copy of the written school policy of suspending students for behavior that does not occur on school grounds during school hours. It doesn't exist. I'd also request a copy of the school policy or code of conduct that addresses lying to school staff or being disruptive (probably that *does* exist) and have it ready so that when your daughter is exonerated, the third girl can enjoy fully the fruits of her labors.

    The principal is having a knee-jerk reaction here. I'm really sorry your daughter is suffering for it.
  7. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I'd call the Dept. of Public Education. NO WAY would that go on my daughter's record. I'd make sure I spoke with the Student Advocate of your state. With your daughter's stellar record, I think that the DPI would give this idiot Principal a big problem about it. What a moron!
  8. Wiped Out

    Wiped Out Well-Known Member Staff Member

    How very frustrating to say the least! The others gave good advice. Gentle hugs.
  9. DazedandConfused

    DazedandConfused Active Member

    How would the third girl get a print out of the msn conversation between the two girls??? Those are private. It doesn't make sense. Think about it. The only way someone else would have access is if your daughter, or the other girl, sent it to her.You might want to pose that question to the principal, SB, etc,. Seems the whole thing is a sham.

    Daughter has been a victim of threats on the internet. Yes, the school CAN take action if it affects the education and schooling of the student being threatened. I understand that is not the situation here, but to say that it has nothing to do with the school is not always the case. More and more SDs are taking a stand on this kind of thing because it's such a problem.

    Good Luck. I think the principal needs to think a bit more rationally.
  10. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    Starbie's advice is excellent. I would be sure that they understand that they will be paying for her private school and the transportation and book expenses for same.
  11. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    Sounds like Principal panicked and is now to stinkin' proud to admit that he was made a fool of by this other girl. Instead of getting to the bottom of the matter, listening and reviewing the evidence he jumped the gun and is loath to admit it.

    Starbie gave excellent advice, as did others. I wouldn't deal with Principal except for the records. I'd do my dealings with the Superintendent. Gramma always said, " Never mess with the middle man when you can go straight to the top. "

    Personally, I wouldn't homeschool her. That's punishing her for something she didn't do. This is not her fault. She has a right to stay in school.

  12. Jena

    Jena New Member


    wow what a nightmare what an idiot for a principal........clearly he has a point to make a dull point at that. wow

    i would def. send your daughter back to school. you shouldnt' have to home school her because of that idiot or take her our of her environment due to him.

    sheesh i think what i would do what i know has always worked best for me is write the district office the superintendent of your schools include copies of yours and other parents logs also stating how this occured off school grounds. i would send it registered mail. i would also include in cover letter how you are threatening to sue the school for the undue upsetment this is causing your daughter and your family, not only that but it will reflect badly on her if this horrid rumor were to spread.

    see when i read this gut said ok get her out. yet maybe in all of this there a lesson to be learned by your daughter. that is when you are not guilty and have done no harm dont' back away with out a good fight. sounds crazy i know.

    but wow what a complete jerk.

    good luck
    let us know how it works out

  13. Jena

    Jena New Member

    i think i'd also copy the idiot principal on the letter also registered mail. scare the **** out of them bigtime.

    id' also make known to principal on verbal so he can't say it occured that he is to in no way have any conversations with your daughter regarding this matter with-o you present.

    with all the real horribe stuff going on at these schools you would think that something like this once realized that it is incorrect info. would be dropped immediately. who needs another scare situation?

    ok did i say he was a jerk yet???????????
  14. Kathy813

    Kathy813 Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Do you live in Canada? If so, the rules are probably different than they are here.

    Schools here can suspend students for Internet harrassment of other students even if it occurs off school premises. We have had incidents at my school where students threatened other students (and even teachers) online from home and it was considered a school incident with school consequences.

    I'm not saying that happened here but just want you to know that the principal may be on solid ground.

    by the way, there was a recent Dr. Phil show on this very subject and the parents are being sued by the victim's parents and it is ruining them financially. The girls admit to writing the threats online and regret it now but the damage is done.

    I hope you can get this all straightened out. I'm glad that you have the records to back you up.

  15. 'Chelle

    'Chelle Active Member

    I would suggest, as mentioned, getting copies of everything in writing, including the suspension from the principal and reasons in writing, a copy of the msn from the accusing person, copies of your logs and the other girls logs, and send letters to your district school board in general, the board member for your area specifically if there is one, the deputy minister of education and the minister of education giving them copies of this and giving your daughter's records of being an A student with no troubles etc. You should be able to walk into the school, request your daughter's records, and get copies of anything in the file to support your side. Don't give them a headups you want to see it, because sometimes papers get taken out and put back later. You know -- oh, a teacher must have been reading that paper for something. Here, there are 2 files, one at the school and one at school board offices which may have other papers as well, I don't know how yours works. You will probably get more action going above the principal's head. Generally, your school board member will take it most seriously, as they want to get reelected next time around and you can hurt their chances if they don't act on your concerns. This is a case of a principal acting without getting all the facts first, as he should have done, and now doesn't want to look stupid by backing down and/or saying he was wrong. Hope you can get this taken off her record, it's such a serious accusation. Good luck.
  16. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    I don't see home-schooling as 'punishing' your daughter.

    As I see it - yes, it's highly likely the principal reacted too hastily and has painted himself into a corner; to back down now would be to not only lose face but also water down his publicly made commitment to stamp out cyber-bullying.

    Is there ANY chance the girls edited their online records before wither of you mothers got to them? Because where you need to go now, will need you to be 110% certain you are right.

    Now, to cyber-bullying - two girls talking privately in accord does not constitute bullying. Doesn't matter what they were talking abut - they could be talking about the downfall of civilisation as we know it, but as long as it's just talk, and not communicated to anyone else, it is NOT bullying in any form.

    BUT - if they communicated to a third party (especially target) or expressed intent to each other to communicate in this way, then it COULD constitute either bullying or incitement to bully.

    And another BUT - where did the principal get this 'transcript'? Because it seems that it is NOT actually a true transcript, but something doctored, to get these girls into trouble. THIS is cyber-bullying - using the 'Net to damage someone else. And now the principal is complicit in enabling the bully to not only achieve his/her aims, but to get away with it.

    In the interests of justice being served, this needs to be properly examined. If the girls HAVE been naughty and also dishonest about it, that should come out. But if a third party has made all this up, that also needs to be checked out and the perpetrator caught.

    There are so many possibilities, but whatever the situation, it needs to be checked out properly. Truth is important to uncover.

    If the principal is not interested in uncovering t he truth (but more interested in scapegoating) then you need to protect the girls from injustice and also ensure that as much unbiased and unadulterated evidence is gathered.

    You need - the girls' transcripts. The transcript the principal has. Some indication of how the principal came by that transcript. An opinion on the legality (or otherwise) of what he is doing - Cathy is right, you need to really be sure of where you stand legally in this.

    The girls' names need to be cleared, if they are truly innocent of wrongdoing.

    I do wonder - a straight A student, why would she make this sort of trouble for herself? But then again, who would benefit from her suspension/expulsion? And this girl she and her friend were gossiping abut - why was this? What are the personalities involved in this, and what is going on to cause this dissent in the ranks?

    Sounds to me like the girls have at least been guilty of sniping abut another girl behind her back (hey, it's what teen girls do) but this could have been with good reason, or it could have simply been casual vindictiveness which has now come back to bite them.

    This really does sound to me like major over-reaction without the benefit of considered decisions. The principal is, frankly, being a bully (behind the smokescreen of stamping out bullying) because he is not listening to any voice of reason.

    And now to schooling - while this is going on, I gather the principal is banning these girls from coming to school? While you might try to force his hand by bringing them to school, the possible result is that he will insist they stay suspended until this has been investigated. In which case - why should either girl be penalised ACADEMICALLY for any of this?
    I would be gathering lesson material, talking to teachers and asking for worksheets (or at least, topics) so that if/while they are at home, they can maintain that A average (or even perhaps gain extra ground?) Then if they MUST stay home, they will not be idle.

    Success is the best revenge.

  17. Marg's Man

    Marg's Man Member

    It is not well known that NOTHING on the 'net is truly private unless it is encoded by an encryption system such as the military and banks use.

    Everything that is sent on the internet is logged so there will also be Server logs of the 'conversation' the girls have. This is especially so if they are using one of the larger chat rooms like MSN or Gaia. Contact the operators of the chat room and see what they can do to help you gather evidence. Just ask if such records are kept and on what basis they are available. Be prepared to be told there are privacy constraints may prevent you getting the info you want. If it goes far enough you can get a court order. It IS what the police will do, if they get more involved.

    Gird your loins and collect your evidence; you are in for a battle to clear your daughter's good name. Assuming you get those records you must also be prepared to be wrong - I don't think you will be. Server records cannot be easily changed in an undetectable manner. A really good hacker could but it takes real cyber skills; not some malicious little twerp who doesn't even have the sense to keep the fonts consistent.

    With all the school shootings going on these days and the later 'discovery' of evidence apparently overlooked by School and other authorities, people are going to jump to conclusions sooner rather than later.