Struggling to Detach...Because

KTMom91

Well-Known Member
You signed a paper that stated you were aware of the requirements of the project, and you are aware of what was presented on the paper, correct? If the teacher does not inform you of any changes, I think you can safely assume the requirements have not changed. Just because difficult child insists there are changes doesn't mean there are.

And once you've verified there are no changes to the project, and difficult child is so far off target it isn't funny? Are you going to be able to get her to understand that? Will she change her researching/interviewing/etc.? Or will there be screaming fights, bad words thrown around, more abuse heaped on you?

If you can't fix it, let it go. If she fails the class, there's always summer session. 14 is not too young to start becoming aware of natural consequences, difficult child or not.

Hugs to you. I know, it's so hard to watch them mess it up, when it would be fine if they would just do what they were supposed to do.
 

susiestar

Roll With It
Star, Sweetie, that shine is not from outsmarting Dude. You mistook the Pledge furniture polish for your hairspray. Sorry!

Seriously, our kids DO make us smarter. Just from the energy of outwitting them. Of course they also make us so tired we really could use pledge instead of hairspray. Or worse, the old Joy floor wax that is now sold in spray form and would make you shiny for days. We still have it in my house because my mother orders it from SC Johnson. By the CASE. Not. Joking. She puts it on all the appliances every month.

For this I would probably drag her to a university library. If there is a medication school they probably would have info on porphyria. It really is a disgusting disease. It was featured in a CSI (the original series), I think in the first year. The lady who was the killer used her dogs to kill people so she could eat their liver to get what her body lacked. It was fantasy at its richest. In reality that would not be enough to treat the disorder.

If it is not porphyria, a univ library may have more on the topic, whatever it is. Or a medical library. There are all types of libraries.

I would contact the teacher. I would also contact her psychiatrist.

Is difficult child often this far out of touch from reality? Most teachers would NOT have you sign an agreement and then change the requirements with-o sending a notice home. You probably WILL get some flack from teh teacher, regardless of what you do. I would verify the unchanged req's, even if you get a response saying that you need to let her do it, good or bad - which our middle school hands to any parent who wants to know grades, what is going on at school, or any info about anything done at school. (Our jr high teaches the 2 yrs after MS and they send info home weekly about assignments and are a delight to work with, oddly enough.)

I would let the teacher know how far out of touch with reality difficult child is, and that difficult child really believes, right now at least, that the assignment has changed. The teacher may be able to correct difficult child. Ask her to please not mention your talk because difficult child gets upset and farther out of touch if she thinks you asked the teacher about assignments.

Is it possible difficult child truly believes what she is telling you, as unbelievable as it sounds? That maybe her problems are not just defiance or other conduct type disorders but that she is dealing with hallucinations or delusions? Those require different treatment, and I hope and pray that they are not the case. But you NEED to make sure it is not what is happening.

Maybe that isn't what is going on. WIth Wiz there were times he was just choosing to change things to what he wanted. But in 5-8th grade there were times that he was truly having delusions AND hallucinations. It was scary as all get out, esp when he had command hallucinations. They were usually about strange things, sort of like he was a real person in the D&D type games he loved and should do those things, like drink mead.

Delusions are a possibility. I don't know how to tell if she is or isn't having them. Maybe a therapist or her psychiatrist could help.

Either way, contacting the teacher is a good idea, in my opinion. I would try to figure out if confronting her with the reality would help. If it would, and after a blowup she would actually do the work, I might do that. Otherwise I would probably leave it up to the teacher and the psychiatrists and tdocs to deal with this. Even if it isn't hallucinations or delusions.

Sorry she is so difficult to deal with. I would NOT believe that the teacher changed things unless you hear it from the teacher. It would not be even a question of believing that the teacher changed things or not. As you already know, she lies a lot. Now you just have to have someone figure out if it is just to lie for some personal reason or because she is having delusions or hallucinations. It still means she is not telling the truth in the reality we all share.
 

Marguerite

Active Member
"Dear Miss NNN,
difficult child tells me that the parameters for the assignment have changed and she can now research it all online, because hers is an opinion piece and that she has cleared this with you. I am a little concerned that her chosen expert, Dr Phil McGraw, is not going to be readily available for a personal interview, given his schedule. I am aware that he has done a TV show dealing with people who believe themselves to be real vampires, but I'm not sure if that makes him sufficiently expert. I would welcome a chat with you about the level of personal responsibility you expect from me, over my daughter's assignment."

Now to her topic -
porphyria is one aspect. Frankly, I wouldn't shoot her topic down in flames. Plus there are books in the library, hard-copy references. But you need to search using different terms.

First, helping her like this is NOT bailing her out, it is actually ensuring that she must follow through on her choices. She chose an obscure topic but she must have had some idea in her head. If she didn't - sorry, kid, your choice is made. Follow through. Do the best you can with what you have. You knew the rules, you can't change them now. But it can be done.

Now, here are some things to do.

First, define the terms. What is a vampire, really? What is the concept of vampirism? Why is it so fascinating these days? Discuss the "sex without responsibilty" aspect, the Freudian implications of penetration, blood, control, superiority, darkness. There would be plenty of references for tat.

Next, the origins of vampirism - I agree, porphyria is one aspect to now discuss. It can be hereditary and in darker times with less medical understanding, there could be some unfortunate creatures who were the victim of rumours or who possibly even caused some rumours.

Another consideration - a TV program I saw recently (documentary probably via National Geographic channel) was discussing the possibility that historically-recorded "vampire epidemics" could have actually been tuberculosis, and the people that used to dig up the corpses of suspected vampires to drive a stake through their hearts, probably infected themselves with TB, thus perpetuating the epidemic. Think about the symptoms of TB - dramatic weight loss, weakness, general malaise, fever. The cough was less of a consideration perhaps for people panicking about vampires, although blood in the sputum is common. Often someone with TB can look flushed in the cheeks despite being otherwise very pale and wasted.

It was an interesting idea, worth exploring. If this project can be a discussion of the spectrum of vampirism, including where a lot of the mythology could have originated as well as what the myths are - it is a good start.

Now to known vampires, according to history. Research Vlad the Impaler (a nasty piece of work, he liked to take tea in the garden with hundreds of impaled heads of his enemies as ornaments. A servant complained about the smell, so that servant's head was impaled higher tan the others, so he wouldn't have to smell them). Also Elizabeth de Bathory, who used to bathe in the blood of virgins (supplied form the local village, until the supply literally ran dry). Another nasty piece of work.

Then the vampires of fiction, and why those tales struck interest at the political time - the original "Nosferatu" movie by the Expressionist German film scene and the rise of early anti-Semitism in pre-WWII Germany is a fascinating topic on its own. "The Cabinet of Dr Caligari", while not strictly a vampire movie, would have to be mentioned for the cultural significance.

And now to modern vampires. The real ones. And I'm not talking porphyria here.
There are people out there, mostly Goths gone extreme, who genuinely believe themselves to be true vampires. They drink the blood of their victims although generally they don't kill for it nor do they attack innocent people. No, bizarre as it sounds, while there are those who consider themselves to be vampires, there are others who are their willing victims (aka 'donors'). That is an interesting psychological phenomenon and I think Dr Phil may have done a show on them. But it would only have been a couple of them, not a large number.

As such, I don't see him as an expert. Only someone doing what your daughter has to do - gather information and present it. And Dr Phil would have had his own researchers doing that, he's just the front man reading an auto-cue.

By all means, do your utmost to contact Dr Phil. Or if she has to make the contact, find the contact info for her and get her to send it off. BUT - make it clear that she needs fallbacks, because Dr Phil is very busy. Nor will he do the work for her and present it all wrapped up on one blood-red bow. Dr Phil doesn't work that way.

If she wants to do this, she needs to do a proper job. Picking an obscure topic is not the soft option she may have expected it to be.

A well-known topic may have the apparent drawback of being overloaded with informaiton - where do you start? She may have chosen an obscure topic because all the information available could be used as is (so she thinks). But it doesn't work that way - you can't just gather information and quote it.

What she needs to do as she gathers information - ALWAYS write down where it comes from, first. Attach this info to your notes form this source, even if you don't think you are actually going to use it. Then as soon as you can, you attach this source to the bibliography.

So, things to search for in the library as well as online - blood disorders. Freud (especially his words on blood, sexual penetration, biting and darkness). Vlad the Impaler. Elizabeth de Bathory. Cannibalism. Porphyria (the range of these, there are a number of different types). German Expressionist films (here is a good link to get you started - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Expressionism). The background to the Victorian vampire novels including "Varney the Vampire" which was published as a newspaper serial, the original "penny dreadful" and why these were popular.

Because the modern vampires, those who believe they are genuine bloodsuckers, are all based on this folklore and social development of the vampire mythology.

Feel free to use this to get her started. And frankly, if she does this properly, it might take the shine off the romanticism of "real" vampires.

There's nothing like a bit of back story to set you straight!

Marg
 

DaisyFace

Love me...Love me not
I see opinions differ regarding how far you should go to help out but just want to add some info "three medical conditions that may well explain why some unfortunate souls were mistaken for these dark creatures of the night."

Thanks for the link!

Yes...that is the condition difficult child specified. Her topic is:

RENFIELD'S SYNDROME

Thank you!
 

DaisyFace

Love me...Love me not
.

Is difficult child often this far out of touch from reality?

Sadly...this is pretty typical.

Is it possible difficult child truly believes what she is telling you, as unbelievable as it sounds? That maybe her problems are not just defiance or other conduct type disorders but that she is dealing with hallucinations or delusions? Those require different treatment, and I hope and pray that they are not the case. But you NEED to make sure it is not what is happening.

Maybe that isn't what is going on. WIth Wiz there were times he was just choosing to change things to what he wanted. But in 5-8th grade there were times that he was truly having delusions AND hallucinations. It was scary as all get out, esp when he had command hallucinations. They were usually about strange things, sort of like he was a real person in the D&D type games he loved and should do those things, like drink mead.

Delusions are a possibility. I don't know how to tell if she is or isn't having them. Maybe a therapist or her psychiatrist could help.

Susie--

This is EXACTLY my struggle. We are not sure how much of this she believes or doesn't believe. Her stories change daily. When confronted with facts, the story changes again.

And then there is her obsession with vampires!

Yes, a lot of kids got into the "Twilight" series....but difficult child took it waaaay too far right from the beginning. And she's been trying very hard to adopt this alternate persona for herself (she refers to herself as a demon....she's cutting....she came home from school with actual bite marks on her neck....we found razor blades in her purse....and she writes notes to classmates in which she claims to have killed people and needs to drink their blood).

Either way, contacting the teacher is a good idea, in my opinion. I would try to figure out if confronting her with the reality would help. If it would, and after a blowup she would actually do the work, I might do that.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. I am not sure what the results of contacting the teacher might be... Most definitely, Mom will be the "bad guy" for butting in. But, on the other hand--who knows what difficult child has been telling the teacher? The lies are SOOO convincing...the teacher may not know WHAT to believe.


Sorry she is so difficult to deal with. I would NOT believe that the teacher changed things unless you hear it from the teacher. It would not be even a question of believing that the teacher changed things or not. As you already know, she lies a lot. Now you just have to have someone figure out if it is just to lie for some personal reason or because she is having delusions or hallucinations. It still means she is not telling the truth in the reality we all share.

Yes, I think you are right.

Thanks!

--DaisyFace
 

DaisyFace

Love me...Love me not
Marg--

I LOVE your sample email to the teacher!

I also agree with your philosophy of investigating the facts behind the mythology. believe it or not--that's always been very big at my house. I love history and have always taken the opportunity to show my kids the "truth" behind popular stories.

And so after reading your response...(and finding myself wholeheartedly in agreement with it)...I realize that the problem is not the research project itself. Clearly, there is all kinds of material that difficult child could use...even if it's not specifically addressing Renfield's Syndrome.

The problem is that this project has become another item in difficult child's alternate universe. difficult child is not interested in facts, as we know them. I think difficult child is interested in proving the existence of vampires using Renfield's Syndrome.

It might explain why the story about the research paper keeps changing....and why not one of the books on human psychology is right for the project...and why the information difficult child sees on her Vampire and Manga websites is OK to use as source material.
 

DaisyFace

Love me...Love me not
You signed a paper that stated you were aware of the requirements of the project, and you are aware of what was presented on the paper, correct? If the teacher does not inform you of any changes, I think you can safely assume the requirements have not changed. Just because difficult child insists there are changes doesn't mean there are.

And once you've verified there are no changes to the project, and difficult child is so far off target it isn't funny? Are you going to be able to get her to understand that? Will she change her researching/interviewing/etc.? Or will there be screaming fights, bad words thrown around, more abuse heaped on you?

If you can't fix it, let it go. If she fails the class, there's always summer session. 14 is not too young to start becoming aware of natural consequences, difficult child or not.

Hugs to you. I know, it's so hard to watch them mess it up, when it would be fine if they would just do what they were supposed to do.

KTMom--

I think you bring up an important point here. There will be NO convincing difficult child if she doesn't want to hear it. And it WILL be a huge battle where Mom is the enemy for interfering.

So yes, I am aware of the requirements...but I am powerless to make difficult child adhere to them.
 

DaisyFace

Love me...Love me not
Just butting my 2 cents in here.

If you signed a paper saying that you understand what the project is about, then I think you have the right to contact the teacher & see if anything has changed. I would probably do it on the down low so that your difficult child doesn't know about it. If nothing has changed, maybe you could cue in the teacher to what's happening, like someone said above.

Yes....I think I DO need to cue the teacher in to what is happening.

Thanks!
 

DaisyFace

Love me...Love me not
So I decided that I WOULD contact the teacher...
Here is the message that I sent:

Dear Ms English Teacher

I just wanted to drop you a line regarding difficult child's research paper:

I read, and understand the requirements of this project...and I signed the letter indicating that I read and understood the project.

Unfortunately, difficult child is approaching this assignment the same way she has been approaching most of her school work this year. I am disappointed that she is not determined to do better, but I am tired of arguing with her about homework. She is going to have to take responsibility for herself.

I am willing to lend whatever support she needs to get this project done on time (visits to the library, computer access etc), but that is all that I can do.

If you need to speak to me or would like to discuss this issue....I can be reached at xxx-xxxx.


.....................................

I hope this counts as "detachment" and not a "cop-out".

:confused:

--DaisyFace

PS--Report cards for last quarter come out today. difficult child has already posted on FB that her parents made her do so many chores that she had no time to do homework and therefore failed five classes. Nice.
 
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