Study of the Isolate Way: First Precept

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by nerfherder, Jul 24, 2015.

  1. nerfherder

    nerfherder Active Member

    What follows come out of my essay. I first compare the translation for Tokitsu's biography of Musashi, with William Scott Wilson's translation. (Tokitsu is an instructor in Musashi's sword style in France, Wilson is widely known as one of the best translators of Japanese and Chinese classics.)

    1. yo yo no michi o somuku koto nashi

    Tokitsu: Do not go against the way of the human world that is perpetuated from generation to generation.

    Wilson: Do not turn your back on the various Ways of this world.

    Yo: "society" or "the world of human beings," and in a broader sense, "the world." The repetition of the term denotes the idea of succession and movement over time.

    Michi: "the way" or "principle."

    Somoku: "to go against."

    Koto nashi: a negation applied to a verb. "Nashi" corresponds to the negation ("not"), and "koto" to the nominative form taken by the verb in this sentence.

    Tokitsu states: "Yo yo no michi:" "the way of the human world that is perpetuated from generation to generation." Acording to Imai Masayuki, the present-day and tenth successor to Musashi, this expression designates the way of wisdom, the true way that traverses time from the past to the future. This idea belongs to the tradition of Buddhism. According to Imai Masayuki, this sentence indicates the state of a man who is independent yet, acting freely, conforms to a truth of human nature.

    "...independent yet, acting freely, conforms to a truth of human nature." What is that "truth"? And how different would it be if instead of a general "truth of human nature" I were to say "truth of his own individual nature?" To restate fully:

    "independent yet, acting freely, conform to a truth of his own nature."

    It sounds odd. I would restate the whole thing as "Do not disregard the human world that is perpetuated from generation to generation."

    There's still something missing, something I'm not understanding in the original phrase - so any attempt of mine to try and restate it for whatever purpose is not really more than brash ego. It really DOES sound in English like "Don't ignore typical human behavior, it can still put you at risk - and don't be too obviously different because it's in their nature to cause trouble with those who go against the flow."

    Years later I'd have to amend that as "Do not consider yourself immune to the realities of human behavior." Individuals may be individual, have unique egos, but the patterns of human behavior are pretty consistent. The unique qualities come in when we realize we can in fact choose how to respond to the patterns of behavior around us.
  2. Scent of Cedar *

    Scent of Cedar * Well-Known Member

    That we are to remind ourselves that, however certain we are that we have found something better, we would be wise to understand the wisdom in those belief systems and mores and traditions that have been retained over time; to trust that traditions and beliefs have survived because they serve our betterment, individually and as societies. In Wilson's interpretation, he is saying the same thing, is stressing the value and truth in the understanding that there is more than one Way and that all have some validity. In a way, this phrase cautions against fanaticism, suggesting instead moderation and curiosity regarding the customs and belief systems of others, however fantastical they seem.

    So, this precept is telling us not to judge. To remain flexible and open and humble, because that is how you learn the value in things that have been found to hold their value over time though you may at first find them offensive.

  3. AppleCori

    AppleCori Well-Known Member

    I think Cedar has hit the nail on the head.

    I wonder if anyone wants to expand on this, and how it might apply to their own lives.

    I know that as I grow older, I see more and more wisdom in the things I was taught (and sometimes rejected) in my earlier years.

    Gardening, canning, food storage, home cooking was something I didn't think I needed to do in my early adulthood. I came back around when I had kids, and more so all the time do I see the wisdom in that way of life.
  4. AppleCori

    AppleCori Well-Known Member

    I am here teaching my daughter the basics of sewing right now and just realized that this is yet another 'wisdom from my elders' skill.

    I didn't really care for it when I was young. I came to realize what a valuable skill it is.

    Now, I know we are not talking exclusively about just 'old fashioned' skills in this precept. It is only one facet. But I thought I would start it out on this topic.
  5. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    A modern skill that is very lacking: telephone skills. I've forced my (text addicted teenage) kids to use the landline. As in, have to actually <gulp> talk to somebody. I always hated talking on the phone. Still do, unless its somebody in my comfort zone. But I can. And I'm determined my kids will too.

    Bonus: Kid2 has discovered that it's more effective for building relationships, to talk on the phone rather than text. So sometimes, she will text to find out when it's "safe" to call (i.e. not likely to be eavesdropped by some sibling on either end of the phone, either on another landline line, or by listening through the door... we never did that, did we?)
  6. Scent of Cedar *

    Scent of Cedar * Well-Known Member

    What if he meant that human nature is human nature ~ the good stuff, and the bad stuff, too. It could be that he is saying precepts developed over time have been developed to make communal living possible. That we each experience anger or rage or grief or greed or shame and etc, and that our tendency will be to justify whatever our responses were. Which people do when they say things like, "Well, you know what? It was a crime of passion. I couldn't help myself and the other guy deserved it."

    And then, whatever system of law we have devised assigns degrees of guilt or innocence and assigns punishment.

    We say that to justify war and reparation, right? Someone did thus and so and tried to take my stuff so we killed them. All of them, except for some that we missed. And we think whoever is left should pay for the cost of destroying them because we won, and we all agree they never should have done that.

    That we each experience, in varying degrees, all the rawness of every emotion. And that, if we hope or intend to create societies of more than one person, we need to understand that social mores set up and working over time make that possible.

    So, however foolish we think the rules are in times of peace and plenty, we only have those good times of stability because of the rules, so don't be messing around trying to think that we know better than the tried and true things that got us all to this point.

    It could be that he is saying a person who has thought this through understands this and so, acts independently to obey the laws established by his communal group.

    Not do not judge, but don't be so arrogant as to believe you know best when you, individually, have only been here one lifetime that you know of.

    So in a way, it is do not be arrogant. Do not assume you know a new and better way because we no longer understand the reasons the old ways were adopted and found worthy. We are all the same in the core challenges we confront, and that is multiplied when we are trying to live together.

    So the truth of human nature would be self interest, right? And that would be a myriad of things. Sifted through time, we find the rules that best work to make it possible for the greatest number to survive with honor.

  7. AppleCori

    AppleCori Well-Known Member

    Very interesting.

    Human nature is by and large self-interest.

    And what is good for me--and only me--isn't necessarily good for the family, community, or society as a whole. Some, yes, some, no.

    So, is this precept also implying that we should curb the baser parts of our nature and conform to the wisdom of the ages to base our behavior on, not just go with our own 'wisdom'?
  8. AppleCori

    AppleCori Well-Known Member

    Maybe this is why our Difficult Child kids are generally unsuccessful in life, at least until they realize that they can't do only what they want to do.

    Success in life usually depend upon walking one of many well-worn paths.
  9. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    We live in a specific culture which itself is specific to a certain time and a certain place. We only exist as human beings within culture. Without it, we cannot be human. Culture constitutes us, and gives us the means to become ourselves. Culture teaches us how to be human. To reject the human world would be to reject ourselves.

    Do not go against the norm. Go with the flow. Only this way will you become yourself. Becoming yourself does not mean rejecting anybody or anything.'It has more to do with acceptance and openness, and then paring down what does not fit, than it has to do with rejection or opposition.

    Personal power comes from our consciousness. Consciousness fosters independence and true individuality. From our true nature, which we develop from being in a culture, we respond in the world. Each of us acts on The world, or culture as culture acts upon us.

    By our independent and freely made acts, individuals collectively change culture by our chosen responses to it. We do not change anything or anybody through opposition. That wastes energy and is for fools.

    Do not oppose the world or culture because opposing culture makes no sense. Because culture is each of us. And each of us is culture. We have a voice in the world by becoming our unique selves within it. You can go with the flow without submitting to it. Go with the flow until you cannot. You will know when that is, if you know yourself. But to know yourself, and to know when to resist, you need to know the world.

    I believe my son would have been a conformist if he could have. That is somebody that adheres to expected goals, priorities, and practices.

    For a while my son wanted to be a Nurse Practitioner. He got the idea of nursing through me. I pushed him to enter a course for CNA's.

    He completed the course and he learned that there existed a profession called Nurse Practitioner. He loved telling people that was his goal.

    When he told people he wanted to be a Nurse Practitioner he got all kinds of good feedback and he basked in the glow.

    It is just that he never did one self-started thing to reach that goal or any other goal related to a job or a profession. It was as if to him there could exist the goal....independent of effort, or choices or behaviors to realize it. It kind of just hung out there in the universe and he basked in its reflected glory. Without doing one thing.

    Until at one point he stopped talking about it. Because he was going backwards, and backwards away from it. And then even he must have known.

    To conform in this particular society we must do something individually. We, after all, are an individualistic society not a tribe or a collectivity.

    To conform in our society an individual must do things, him or herself. Consistently. And that is what my son was unwilling to do. To try, consistently. By himself.

    I do not know if this is because of deficit or choice, or if he can outgrow it.

    To try means to adopt all sorts of practices and habits, that are consistent with achieving and succeeding: discipline, organization, self-consciousness and correction, dedication, self-control, even self-denial.

    If I am honest with myself and with you, the truth is that I was a slow learner in most of these areas.

    The difference between my son and I is that he is unwilling or unable to enter arenas or endeavors where he is even called upon to adopt these practices or habits. Or maybe it is the reverse. Because he will not or can not adopt these habits, he does not try many things.

    Conforming in this age and place would be to get a job and try hard to keep it. Become independent and take on typical responsibilities. Have culturally specific goals and work to attain them. Behave in culturally designated appropriate ways.

    All of these things, too, my son is unwilling or unable to do. Many of your children, too, have a hard time. Maybe they are revolutionaries in their times. Maybe they are the Romantics of our era. Maybe they would have fit better in another World. Like the Wild West.

    Nerfie, do you need helpers on the ranch? They will work cheap.

    My son needs others, but he has trouble acknowledging that this is so, and he has trouble conforming in the ways that engender his receiving sustained help from and acceptance by others.

    He wants acceptance, but so far, he has been unwilling or unable to contain the elements of his personality that sabotage his acceptance by others and their wanting to help them.

    If I translate this into the wisdom of the First Precept, it would be that my son opposes the world, still. He sees his freedom as something that he gains that is in opposition to others. He sees his freedom as being threatened by others. As something to be infringed upon or taken. He does not see personal freedom as something that is gained through habits and reflection, as one understands and lets go the extraneous and extricates oneself from the unnecessary and the frivolous.

    He sees his autonomy as something that is in opposition to Society, not as something to be earned within it. He sees Society as cramping his style, so to speak. He sees the practices and habits that would harness his natural abilities, which are considerable, as confining. He sees practices that would address and compensate for his limitations as burdensome, extraneous and unnecessary.

    And yet more than most people, he need the protections of Society. He needs others.

    I wanted to take a break from my son. It is the fault of the first precept that I have not.

    As I type this I wonder if my son's recent rage, is related to a dawning awareness of his personal quandary, and a belated at least partial acceptance of the First Precept. It would be quite a hopeful thing if it was.

    I want to write one more thing, to close.

    All of you are going to vote me off the Island because I am going on and one.

    Mental illness as a concept is very new. It only really originated as an organized concept in the 19th century. All of the diagnoses are really a new thing. I will not bore you with a history, but I will say this.

    To me, this society is very demanding upon its people. And offers us really very little help to shoulder the burdens of life. We are largely alone, unless we are very lucky. That is one of the miracles on this board. Because many of us do not have anywhere else to share.

    My son, you all know, had a very hard time as an infant. I loved him a great deal. Maybe if my son had had models. Brothers, a father. Mentors, other male figures. He could have done it. Maybe that would have provided him the emotional security, the bonds to feel that he could go forward. And not be alone.

    There was nothing really there for him when he grew up to help him be autonomous. It turns out he could not do it alone. And we know, he needed to reject me.

    There are people that believe my son is lacking in the qualities that would allow him to mature in a normal way. I am talking here about the psychiatrist who I speak to on the phone who has never met my son. Who I have not yet fired. I cannot knowingly kill the messenger.

    Cedar, it is not that I will not consider drugs. It is what in the world would I do then. At least now, I can agonize and hope I discover something, anything. If it is drugs, what could I do?

    My son has another opportunity. We will see how it goes.

    There is just so much heartache. I hope we soon get to the precept that addresses that, to move beyond it. I fear we will not.
    • Like Like x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    • List
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2015
  10. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    I would add to this sewing and textiles like knitting and weaving, spinning, crochet, embroidery.

    I have not said that I am yet doing all of this but I want to.

    I am making cordials and liqueurs. OK. Only one, so far. But it is good.

    I can say that I see this as a sort of reclamation of self, but honestly do not know why I have developed these interests. I am not the least reactionary or in any way traditional a person or in my values.

    Yet, I am yearning for traditions as a way to define myself, those same ones that I rejected long ago.

    I will now go back and finish reading the posts.
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2015
  11. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    But human nature is not human nature. It depends on a place and a time.
    Yes. But they are subject to debate, modification and change according to the time and place.

    Look at the two translations. Look at only those two people, if they are the only translators of the Precepts. How much their personal understanding of those words and concepts have influenced the English readers of this work. Every Engish reader and learner of the Precepts has a knowledge base shaped by these two people. Such it is with culture.
    I agree with you. To some extent. But cultures name emotions. Cultures concentrate on or favor certain emotions, naming them, etc.

    Just like words for snow in Eskimo culture, there are like hundreds of them. And did you know that the there are like hundreds of names for the color white and gray in Eskimo culture because there is so much of it and it is so important in their lives.

    The same is true of emotions. We learn to name emotions based upon what our culture teaches us. I will look into this to give you specific examples, which I am fairly certain exist both cross-culturally, and also based upon anthropological study.
    I agree. But rules can also be a two way street. Sometimes rules are oppressive. They are either no longer suitable for their times, or they are imposed too harshly, or both. People collectively rise up and change them.

    Social rules or precepts are negotiated over time. If they were not we would die off as did the dinosaurs because our rules would oppress us and they would no longer serve us.
    Yes. And you can only know a piece of anything, a very, very tiny piece. Like the blind men and the elephant. Was that the story?

    And it takes each of us a lifetime to even begin to get anything. So, if we start speaking up before age 85 or thereabouts we are nothing but young upstarts.

    At the same time, there can be new ways to understand old things. There is the most fascinating work being done for the past 40 years or so. Cross disciplinary by an architect out of UC Berkeley.

    I think his name is Christopher Alexander. The book is called A Pattern Language. I have got it here, somewhere. It is totally against modern architecture and design and he was as much as reviled by his contemporaries.

    What he did was identify and examine common elements of traditional architecture going back through the ages and cross-culturally, and he found that there were universal ways to live that fostered rather than stifled human communication, contentment and belonging. He identified these as patterns. Things so simple as benches in front of a house or window reading nooks.

    All of which were ignored in Modern Architecture to the absolute distress of inhabitants of modern homes and offices. As if we all decided to build prisons to live in rather than homes. Except we didn't decide, architects did.

    Well, as reviled as he was by other architects he was embraced by systems theorists and mathematicians especially those who worked in computer science, because these patterns he had identified worked to enhance human communication across systems. They were universals based on our hard-wiring.
    No. In Western Culture, after say 1400, yes.

    No, in lots of other places and times. More, no. We are an aberration. Self-interest is not our nature. We are taught it in this specific culture because it serves the culture. It does not serve us.
    I really do not think so.

    Little children go to school. In kindergarten when they see a peer struggling with an answer they do what ever they can to help him find the answer. They cooperate. They see themselves as in it together. They see the win as for everybody, not each one for him or herself.

    By the end of first grade these same children see each other as competitors. They elbow each other to win. By this point they know there is just one winner. Sharing, and helping have stopped. The win is now for me. Just me.

    This is taught. It is not developmental. Because studies have shown over and over again that if cooperation is supported it is maintained.
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2015
  12. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Nerfie, I want more Precepts. Maybe we can work on all of them simultaneously, but on separate threads. I mean, work on latter precepts can inform work on earlier ones.

    I like this.

    In what tradition are these a part? In what tradition do I study to read more?
  13. nerfherder

    nerfherder Active Member

    I'll need to be on my Chromebook to start the new thread, so I can copy-paste from my files.

    Miyamoto Musashi was kind of an anomaly from his era. If you want to know just how much, compare his Dokkodo to Hagakure (quotes from this were used in the movie "Ghost Dog - the Way of the Samurai." One of my favorite - if violebt - movies.) Hagakure was much more the traditional mindset of the Samurai; and a strong reflextion of Japanese culture of the era. Musashi was not a blind follower in the way taught by the culture of his times, and this got him into trouble quite a lot - he was moat definitely a Difficult Child!

    Both Tokitsu's and Wilson's biographies are worth reading. Wilson is more well-versed in the scholarly approach to translating a large number of Asian Writings; Tokitsu is from Japan, teaches Musashi's developed two-sword art, but lives in France. His manuscript was translated from French if I remember right.

    There is a translation by Cleary too of Musashi's Writings and they are quite good - but Cleary is a Jesuit and this does shape the filter he translates through.
  14. Scent of Cedar *

    Scent of Cedar * Well-Known Member

    I'm going to need about a week to think through Copa's reply.

    I'm just sayin'.

    Great stuff, Copa. I need time to go through and think. I liked what you said about our kids. The ways they think seem to be very much the root of the problem and they don't make any bones about that, do they.

    I am thinking about the human nature / history question.

    I think that might not be correct. Then I wonder.

  15. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    I think we are probably in agreement about human nature and history.

    I am not saying that there are not basic elements in the human psyche that are largely invariant in time or place. Like the suckle response in an infant. Like the fear of falling which emerges very early. Like fear of snakes, that is present in infants. Like the smile, which emerges to cement the mother-infant bond.

    I think I would go further, but not everybody would: cooperation, creativity, urge towards complexity, for example.

    I think it was you who said that there is something in a human mother that keeps her attached to her child until that child has been shown to her to be self-sufficient. Absolutely, I agree with this. How could I not?

    There may be a million other genetic or biochemical influences that underlie behavior and make human nature what it is.

    With that I am also in agreement.

    What I am saying is how such biological bases of behavior in human nature are molded, interpreted, understood, encouraged and discouraged--are subject to historical and cultural influence. And the malleability of human beings has been significant.

    Understanding of emotions, sexuality, the meaning of philanthropy and gift giving, marriage, the body, clothing, religion, money, relation of individual and group, the life cycle, ideas about property and private property, children and rearing children, value, how elders are viewed, ideas about work, economy, rites of passage, gender roles, etc. are all subject to interpretation that differs historically and cross-culturally.

    If you are interested, I will research specific examples in the Anthropological literature. I am particularly interested in reading again in this area.

    I look forward to a debate.
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2015
  16. Scent of Cedar *

    Scent of Cedar * Well-Known Member

    I like this idea, Copa.

    I woke up wondering about human nature. I woke up wondering about human nature.


    For heaven's sake.

    Yes. This is an interesting thing to think about.

    Or to indicate the soul has been seated.


  17. Scent of Cedar *

    Scent of Cedar * Well-Known Member


    We just have to come back and read over, like, a period of time.


    When we understood the drug connection with our son, we were able to tailor our learning. Armed with that knowledge, we were able to choose different responses. When we believed we had been rotten parents, we felt it was our responsibility to address where we had fallen short as parents. When we understood we were dealing with an addiction, we were able to change our expectations of our son and ourselves. He seemed not a victim of our bumbling behaviors during daughter's fall, but of his own choices. Given that he was being victimized by his own choices, any help we gave him was not helping him. It was enabling.

    If it had been proven that drug use was not involved ~ and this is true for daughter, too ~ we would be doing more financially than we are.

    Copa? From your description of your boy as a child, your description of his behaviors now, the person he lives with ~ I would say drugs are a piece of this. There is the complexity of the illness. That cannot be eliminated as a factor. Drug use, or lack thereof, can.

    That knowledge will inform your behavior.

    At first, Copa? I thought you meant you were considering taking drugs yourself, and that this decision somehow had something to do with the First Precept.

    I'm like...what did I miss?


    Oh wow, I love that, Copa. I did not know this. I thought I was one of the few who found comfort and even joy in the old churches, especially. It was explained to me once that the beautiful old buildings were built for a slower time, for a time of horse-drawn carriages or walking, and that is why they were beautiful. We are in such hurries today we would not note the beauty, so it was taken away and the money used to create more efficient internal space.

    Sad, isn't it.

    I don't know, Copa. Agricultural societies, hunter gatherers ~ each social grouping seems to have had its higher status individuals.

    Oh for heaven's sake. I didn't realize it was so late.

    Happy Hour here. I will think more about this, Copa.

    Have a good night, everyone.

  18. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Isn't it a marvel, Cedar, that we are all still human in that same way that we crave comfort and nooks and crannies, and alcoves, and benches and porches to talk with our neighbors?

    And isn't it sad that so many experts pooh pooh this?

    As to the discussion between hard wiring/innate human nature: Our experts, the rule makers, are trying to foist on us something which is foreign, inhabitable and inhospitable...and makes us sad, and crazy, and lonely...bereft, even.

    Like rats that become the experiment and begin to injure themselves.

    This is really an important question, is it not? I mean, who are we really??? And taking a stand in all things...
  19. Scent of Cedar *

    Scent of Cedar * Well-Known Member

    I am not sure, but I think Time has become a rushing thing and there is never, ever enough of it. We have too many distractions, and few interests.

    We have too many distractions and few interests.

    There is nothing to feed the soul.

    We do not think, and certainly do not write, in a manner that will teach us the way of savoring ourselves or our lives or our time here or anywhere.

    This is a tragedy, a real and personal tragedy for human beings; the loss of time, of savoring, is shattering meaning and that is turning us insane. We notice nothing that matters. We read maps and focus only on destinations and never on the infinite possibilities of the moment we are in. The possibilities are lost. The questions come of stumbling over new things to see and wonder about ~ all that is lost, every minute, every day, for all of us.

    This must be a phase of maturation. The longest-lived cultures cherish clarity and clean lines and cleanliness and hot baths and simple rules and simple foods and humility and complex thought.

    Yet, we are oh, so fortunate in this time. We have access to any field of study, to conversation with those from other cultures, to research and philosophy created by the finest minds. But our cultures, our popular cultures, do not prepare us for contemplation.

    They prepare us for consumption.

    Or am I wrong.

    I could be wrong.

    The pleasures of in-depth learning, of every kind of music, exposure to every nuance of thought, are available to us.

    Perhaps that is why there is less emphasis on beauty in our surroundings. In this time, the weightiest value is us as we explore and pleasure the brain.

    At bottom, that is what we all are doing ~ we all of every race and generation.

    Listen to the music of the young. It is raw and honest about the emotional reality of sex appeal and what is beauty and what matters and women declaring what matters to them in this world where they are seen as what matters but not for themselves.

    I love it.

    I love comparing the music from times and cultures and generations.

    It shapes us and reveals us to ourselves and pushes us on and tells us where we've been. Even in those old churches I love so much, the pipe organs are an amazing portion of the reality of what went on there.

    For this reason, because it somehow sums "human" up for me, I love Halleluiah the way kd lang sings it.

    I love that we can go online and see the masterpieces, the paintings in the flash of an eye and then, follow those down to the core of the thing.

    So, in a way we are the most fortunate generation.

    We all are like the Fool on the Hill, in a way. Amazed at all of it, just amazed.

  20. Scent of Cedar *

    Scent of Cedar * Well-Known Member

    I agree. The symphony, the meaning. We create that together. When daughter was homeless, she would tell me wonderful stories about meaning in that time when I believed there was only destruction ~ when all I could see was what was lost from my perspective. What she was telling me Copa, is what you are telling us, here.

    We are the ones who create meaning, and it is there in everything we are part of.

    Yes. Is this what our kids are saying. And are we seeing through disvaluing eyes because we are ashamed that the kids are not following, like blindered sheep, the old value systems that find us, as we were discussing earlier this morning, in that place where time rushes and all the things that matter are lost, or pass unnoticed.

    We concentrate on the hardships for our kids. We only see their clothing, that they sleep in places without roofs; we see them wasting precious time...but they are not. In so many ways, what they are doing is taking themselves out of time ~ out of our concept of time and its value and purpose.

    Remember when I would post and post about my outrage that it seemed my kids both were throwing their "lives" away on purpose. I posted that daughter had blah, blah, blah and could have had more of it still if only she had done the responsible thing. I posted about son's lost or thrown away "potential".

    I post about both my kids believing money and possessions are not the prime vale and are not even the value, at all.

    And that is part of the betrayal in what our kids have done, for all of us here. We say the same kinds of things about our kids: The way they think, the things they value, the refusal to "work", to "get ahead".

    The other side of that though is the viciousness in much of what the kids say ~ viciousness toward us. Are they responding, not to us, but to the roaring toxicity in the way we see who they are?

    It is an essential conflict, what is happening between ourselves and our children, when viewed in this way.

    Huh, Copa.

    Paradigm shifts everywhere for me, this morning.


    Yay. I love that.

    Yes, Copa. I feel fortunate to have been given this opportunity for paradigm shifting thought.

    Especially where the kids are concerned. Could this be true. I am reeling.

    Last edited: Aug 6, 2015