Trading one mess for another

[newstart]

If those people are coming to visit, you could invent a reason to go visit extended family in another area far away. I would make myself scarce. Tell them you’re going on a yoga retreat with a friend. Stay in a hotel during the time they are in your home. If your husband insists on hosting them and won’t reconsider, you don’t have to be part of it.

Excellent idea Crayola14, that same idea has been floating in my head. I have had long talks with my husband the last past few days. I can talk with him and then I feel my anguish and disgust coming to the surface and I blow up at him. I have asked him this question 'In the last 49 years that I have been with you have I once done anything so stupid that it made you super mad? He could not come up with anything. My parents had a toxic relationship, I was the middle child, I observed, hell no I don't want that when I grow up. The first five years of my life I was raised with a very ZEN grandmother, peaceful and loving. I don't remember one ugly word being said. Everyday was peaceful and fun. I know it is possible to live like that.
The other night I was so angry at my husband and called him out for the rash of stupid things he had been doing. He said 'Well maybe you just married an autistic man'. I think he wants to use that now as his excuse for his horrible behavior. Even that makes me boiling mad. A friend of mine is an expert in autism and I asked her if she thought he was autistic, she said no way, she knows him real well. Wow what a great way to do what ever stupid stuff you want to do and then smile and say you are autistic. Just typing that out shoots my blood pressure to the moon.
I have been to so much therapy in my life that the thought of sitting through it with a knucklehead that wants to use autism as an excuse just irritates me. Please don't worry about me, it is very healing for me to type this frustration out. I am moving ahead just moving ahead feeling resentful that my husband that knows that we buried our only son and raised a manic out of control daughter is trying this BS on me now.

He says 'let go of it now' and that was in the past and why are you hanging on to it so long, I have forgotten about it' or what? you are still mad about that? Good Lord.
And I look at this man. He has the most beautiful eyes, white teeth, nice skin, fit. If he was not so good looking I would be gone. Besides his new autistic act he tries to be kind and that is very important.
Dear God, Please help this man grow up. Please help him to stop wasting time on stupid things that cause huge amounts of pain. Please God give him the wisdom to do right. Please God, help me from wanting to pummel him, please God lessen my anger and let me get over this huge betrayal. Please God let us live in peace.

 

[Copabanana]

If your husband insists on hosting them and won’t reconsider, you don’t have to be part of it.

I think this is wise advice. I would tell the truth to your husband, though, and ask him to cancel. Tell him you don't feel comfortable and that you wish that he would have involved you in deciding who to host in your own home and not sprung it on you.

I would not lie to anybody. Your feelings are valid. These family members of your husband are responsible for their behavior. And you have a right to how you feel. If your husband refuses to back down, I would just decide to stay in a very nice hotel;. Maybe with a spa. I would pick someplace where you can go to fine restaurants, and do what you like to do. Maybe take the train. I love the train.

 

[Copabanana]

'Well maybe you just married an autistic man'.

Give me a break. He needs to fix this. Have you told him you want and need him to cancel the invitation?

Besides his new autistic act he tries to be kind and that is very important.

That is hugely important.

 

[Copabanana]

I wish I had a little cabin to live in.

Yes. Or even a camper, except I couldn't drive it.

 

[newstart]

I think this is wise advice. I would tell the truth to your husband, though, and ask him to cancel. Tell him you don't feel comfortable and that you wish that he would have involved you in deciding who to host in your own home and not sprung it on you.

I would not lie to anybody. Your feelings are valid. These family members of your husband are responsible for their behavior. And you have a right to how you feel. If your husband refuses to back down, I would just decide to stay in a very nice hotel;. Maybe with a spa. I would pick someplace where you can go to fine restaurants, and do what you like to do. Maybe take the train. I love the train.

Copa, I have said everything that you just wrote that I should say to him. He just stares at me because at age 69 he has apparently developed autism. He is at a loss for words since I told him I do not want any members of his family in our home. I asked him 'Has it ever turned out good when your family has been here? Did you ever enjoy it? He said there is always a first. I am making plans to be away from my home when the time comes. I too love riding the train. I would love to take one of those Canadian scenic trips.. I want to do all this but deep down I am very tried. I have seasonal depression and just want to crawl into my bed and sleep. I still get out, volunteer and exercise. Today I went shopping and after trying on 100 pair of jeans I finally found a pair that fits my long legs and flat butt. I have a hard time finding decent clothes. I prefer cotton clothes but can't find any anywhere. The clothes I try on does not fit me right and since Covid so many of the stores are closed. I would rather try something on and not buy it on line.

 

[Copabanana]

I would love to take one of those Canadian scenic trips.. I want to do all this but deep down I am very tried. I have seasonal depression and just want to crawl into my bed and slee

I know what you mean about crawling into and staying in bed. That's my safe place, too.

If you are by the ocean what about a short cruise? That would be like the train but better. On a small ship. What about an Alaska cruise? Right now they have the repositioning cruises that are so cheap, where the ships have to go back to start the Spring season. I have always wanted to do that. The beauty of the repositioning cruise is there are not too many stops. You just cocoon on the ship. I would love this. But oh yeah, we're talking about you here. (I've never ever been on a cruise.)

Did you ever enjoy it? He said there is always a first.

He is evading the point. There are more people involved than just him. You are in the marriage and you live in the house. Tell him for me he's a chicken for not considering the impact on you (Maybe don't tell him.) Why can't they meet somewhere else? Why don't they go on the cruise? But the thing is you're not getting anywhere with him.

What would be the easiest for you?

 

[newstart]

I know what you mean about crawling into and staying in bed. That's my safe place, too.

If you are by the ocean what about a short cruise? That would be like the train but better. On a small ship. What about an Alaska cruise? Right now they have the repositioning cruises that are so cheap, where the ships have to go back to start the Spring season. I have always wanted to do that. The beauty of the repositioning cruise is there are not too many stops. You just cocoon on the ship. I would love this. But oh yeah, we're talking about you here. (I've never ever been on a cruise.)

He is evading the point. There are more people involved than just him. You are in the marriage and you live in the house. Tell him for me he's a chicken for not considering the impact on you (Maybe don't tell him.) Why can't they meet somewhere else? Why don't they go on the cruise? But the thing is you're not getting anywhere with him.

What would be the easiest for you?

Copa, I am weighing all my options. I suggested everything you mentioned to my husband and he said he just wants to show his relative the town. We went to see another one of his relatives, an uncle in New Mexico. I thought to myself, ok I will go visit him and how bad can this guy be if he is getting up there in years. He was a COMPLETE A.H. My husband even said so. My husband's dad was the only balanced one in that family. He was a loveable guy, fair, funny and loved my kids deeply. I do miss my father in law. I have no idea how that poor guy put up with a houseful of unmedicated bipolar people. My husband's family are all highly successful people in their work life. Crazy A** people making major decisions on other peoples lives.
We take regular cruises. They are a nice way to completely relax. I'm thinking of taking a solo cruise. I see many women on board going solo and love it. Taking cruises and walking all over the ship late at night is how I got my daughter somewhat balanced through her teenage years. I would sit on the balcony on the ship, wrap us both in a blanket and watch the stars and waves and have talks. It seems to calm my daughter and that is when she would talk the most.
I feel a bit more calm in my soul but still very Pi**ed off. Today the weather was nice so we took a 2 mile walk. I got irritated walking with him knowing all the crap he pulled so I prayed myself back to calm. But that irritated feeling comes up daily.
I have been with the knucklehead since I was 18. He used to have a fair even head on his shoulders like his dad.
I've had some wonderful things happen in my life and some awful betrayal too. I kept telling myself that I learned a lot with the betrayal, it was painful but powerful too as to make me see things different and to be a better compassionate listener when someone tells me about their betrayal. One thing for sure it is very healing to type out the agony and anguish. I have no idea how I am going to move forward with all this mess. Thank you for being there. Love sent to you in abundance.

 

[Copabanana]

I would sit on the balcony on the ship, wrap us both in a blanket and watch the stars and waves and have talks.

Wow!!! I would love this!!! Are you somewhere where you can catch a cruise, without having to fly? I am 2 hours from catching a cruise ship, and I have never gone. Except for when I traveled with my son, almost always I traveled alone. I loved it. There is a kind of attention you get when you are alone that seems heartfelt.

Why do you think your husband won't hear you? Why not sit and talk with him, like you did with your daughter on the cruise ship? Just listen to him, and see what he says. Unconditional listening. Non-judgemental.

Because he sure does seem to be holding onto this cockamamie idea of the visit with all his might. He doesn't sound like the kind of guy who does power plays. Either he must be very, very kind and not want to hurt this relative, or he wants this very much for himself.

 

[Copabanana]

d he said he just wants to show his relative the town.

Why can't the relative stay in a hotel? Your husband can pay. Lots of people are still very afraid about COVID and rightfully so. In my area old people are still dying, even with the vaccines and the anti-viral. Except, maybe you need to let it go with your husband and just listen to what he has to say. Try to focus on repair. And the cruise!!

 

[Copabanana]

Does your husband know that some strange lady (me) is involved in pressuring him, this poor guy?

 

[newstart]

Does your husband know that some strange lady (me) is involved in pressuring him, this poor guy?

Hi Copa, My husband does not even know I talk about him on this board. We have had a few peaceful days. I was looking at cruises and told him I want to go solo. He said he recently watched a movie on cruise ship murders and wants to go with me. I live an hour and a half from a cruise port. He takes regular trips without me. He goes way into the wilderness and stays for about 2 weeks. He flies into heavy wooded areas and fishes, camps and hikes. I am ok with this but if I want to go anywhere he acts like I am asking for the world. My work took me to many cities and after awhile I got burned out on traveling. My husband has a Dr. appointment on Feb 1st. I have not scheduled a therapy session with him because if I start talking about all the stupid stuff he does I will be deeply irritated.
My daughter was nasty to me a few days ago. I made distance from her. She wrote a nice note and bought me a bag filled with my favorite foods, fresh almond butter etc. This pattern I do not like. Treating me like crap then thinking buying me a gift will make it all go away. She has tried to make things right but her behavior is still way out of line. It is better than years ago. I wonder if she knows the spiritual damage she does by harming others with her ugly tone and words.

Today my husband S and I went shopping. S was patient while I looked at clothes. He usually is not patient. He knows he has done me wrong.

Things are a bit calm and the urge to pummel has lessened only 1/2. I need a long break away from him. I need to go somewhere I can be alone with my thoughts. I need to reground and regroup.
Always the best to you.

 

[Copabanana]

. He said he recently watched a movie on cruise ship murders and wants to go with me.

He can either cancel the visit of the obnoxious relative and go with you, or you go alone. Isn't the ball in his court?

Do you want to sit down with him (again) and tell him how you feel? Knowing he has done you wrong, is only part of it, there is the fixing of it. The only way he can fix it is that he listens to you and hears you and responds to what you say and feel, and for you to accept that he is repairing the situation and the relationship. In my experience, this may take many many conversations. If you want you can begin on the cruise ship, (instead of the relative coming.)

 

[newstart]

He can either cancel the visit of the obnoxious relative and go with you, or you go alone. Isn't the ball in his court?

Do you want to sit down with him (again) and tell him how you feel? Knowing he has done you wrong, is only part of it, there is the fixing of it. The only way he can fix it is that he listens to you and hears you and responds to what you say and feel, and for you to accept that he is repairing the situation and the relationship. In my experience, this may take many many conversations. If you want you can begin on the cruise ship, (instead of the relative coming.)

Hi Copa, We have sat down and have had many conversations. He wants his relative to come down and go places with him. Even though this relative has given both of us enough grief to last a lifetime, he thinks this is very important to him. He keeps saying, 'Well, he is the least toxic of them all' as if that gives him the right to invite him. Tomorrow he goes for one of his Dr appointments. I asked him what in specific is he doing to help him from making idiotic choices and he said he is reading things on the internet, so I asked what are you reading and he said some bible things and then I said what in particular are you reading that helps you specifically with the problems we just talked about and he did not have an answer. Then he said he did not trust the internet. I told him I have received the best advice on my support group and he said he does not know where to start. I told him that if he were to get a new wife, I am positive he would know where to start. I really think I need to go to an experienced marriage counselor that can interpret what I just said. I told him that he does not hear what I am saying so I have to pay someone to tell him what I am saying because he is not listening or he is not interested or he simply does not want to grow or keep the relationship healthy. So many of his friends in the age group of 65+ are now getting divorced and at an alarming rate. Many of my friends just can't take it either. He keeps asking if I want a divorce, I said no, I want you to fix your irritating behavior and I was very specific of the changes that need to be made and these changes benefit him the most for his own life journey. If he tells me once that he does not like something or something irritates him, I mark it in my brain and take care of it RIGHT AWAY. Another weird thing is that when we get back from a long vacation together, and he gets home he reboots back to 1975 to behaviors that he worked hard at getting rid of. It all comes back. Bad habits and behaviors that do not serve him at all even if he was single and he even agrees they don't serve him.

He has been retired now for over two years. He had a stressful job where he had to use his brain the entire time. I wonder if he just wants to go into auto pilot and go into his 'nothing' box. In some of our volunteer work he still needs to use his brain. He gets enough oxygen to his brain because we both stay fit.
Sometimes I think about my daughter's life. No man at her place to give her crap. She comes and goes as she pleases. She is not tempted to eat all the time and she does not have to do anything she does not want to do. Her creepy ex wanted to eat all the time and she gained a bunch of weight. My husband is the same way and insists I eat with him eat time. Sometimes I am not hungry yet I sit at the table and eat with him. Many times I just drink a glass of water. He thinks it's terrible if I don't eat each meal with him. I remember when my mom got a divorce she said she would never remarry and never put with with another SOB as long as she lived. And she did not.

Even though we are going through a rough patch, the soul inside my husband is a good man. He is off track now but in reality he is a decent man most of the time. Thank you for listening this far. *Love*

 

[Copabanana]

He keeps asking if I want a divorce, I said no,

This is very perplexing. It's almost as if he's gaslighting you, to avoid taking responsibility for himself. Have you asked him if he wants a divorce? I'm not recommending this, but I am wondering as you are what is his motivation to keep acting in ways that will aggravate.

If he is not listening to you, maybe the thing to do is to deeply listen to him. To hear what is bothering him. Not about you, but about his life and his feelings. Maybe he is depressed after retiring from a job that was so demanding and all-consuming. Maybe he doesn't know how to live now or what to do. Maybe he is acting out to make you feel instead of dealing with himself. He would not be the first person to do this. He may be just lost and need your help.
__

 

[newstart]

This is very perplexing. It's almost as if he's gaslighting you, to avoid taking responsibility for himself. Have you asked him if he wants a divorce? I'm not recommending this, but I am wondering as you are what is his motivation to keep acting in ways that will aggravate.

If he is not listening to you, maybe the thing to do is to deeply listen to him. To hear what is bothering him. Not about you, but about his life and his feelings. Maybe he is depressed after retiring from a job that was so demanding and all-consuming. Maybe he doesn't know how to live now or what to do. Maybe he is acting out to make you feel instead of dealing with himself. He would not be the first person to do this. He may be just lost and need your help.
__

Copa, You are right. He does not know how to live right now even though I ask him what he wants to do with his life. Since he does not have answers I make suggestions. We stay busy, almost too busy but if I don't keep him busy he does stupid things. I know many men that do very stupid things, even highly educated men like my husband. Some of the things my friends tell me that their husbands do would make me get a divorce. I have asked him if he wants a divorce and he said no he does not. I do listen but sometimes he just can't express himself or he tells me half the story. We have been having some peaceful days and I bring it up about the relative coming this March and he said he is looking forward to it. Last fall we went to the town the relative lives in, 1,200 miles away and did not even stop in to see him. He did not know we were in town. So why invite him to our home now? I told my husband that between his off track behavior and our daughter, even on her good days she is still grieving. I am wore out. Not a good wore out either. One thing for sure, my son was highly protective of me. Right or wrong he was always on my side. I knew as I grew older and if I had to be in nursing care that he would have my best interest in mind and make sure I got the best care possible. When I had the flu, he was the one that ran to the grocery store to get me what I needed. And he always picked out the best avocados. He was a natural care giver. It's stressful times like this that make me miss him so much.
Today my daughter gave me an entire line of BS. I was wore out shifting through it all.
Several of my friends have come back from their cruises. The weather was rough, the food just so so and the cruise lines are making many cuts. Now I have to rethink something else. Hope you are well and thank you for walking this road with me. You are so appreciated. Love.

 

[Copabanana]

Several of my friends have come back from their cruises. The weather was rough, the food just so so and the cruise lines are making many cuts.

I want to take a container ship cruise. There was a time when I wanted to make it a lifestyle. A container ship cruise is on a freighter. They are allowed to carry up to 12 passengers. The limit is because, over that amount of people, you need a doctor on board--or at least I think that is the case. You eat with the ship officers. There is no entertainment. It is very, very casual.

The advantage to the freighter company to have passengers is that they can go to the head of the line entering ports, or going through the Suez Canal or the like. These cruises can be very cheap for what they include. From what I read they are very relaxing, calming, and peaceful, and a very interesting kind of person is attracted to this kind of cruise.

My problem is this. You have to be able to climb up the gangplank and these ships can be many, many stories high. I am afraid of heights. Another problem is you have to be able to have the capacity to carry your bags up with you. I don't think I have that stamina anymore.

It was a big dream of mine I think almost all the companies that do this are international, but they stop at US Ports like Houston Oakland or LA.

I am very adventurous. But now that I am older it's hard to deal with my limitations. Maybe you can go!!

 

[newstart]

I want to take a container ship cruise. There was a time when I wanted to make it a lifestyle. A container ship cruise is on a freighter. They are allowed to carry up to 12 passengers. The limit is because, over that amount of people, you need a doctor on board--or at least I think that is the case. You eat with the ship officers. There is no entertainment. It is very, very casual.

The advantage to the freighter company to have passengers is that they can go to the head of the line entering ports, or going through the Suez Canal or the like. These cruises can be very cheap for what they include. From what I read they are very relaxing, calming, and peaceful, and a very interesting kind of person is attracted to this kind of cruise.

My problem is this. You have to be able to climb up the gangplank and these ships can be many, many stories high. I am afraid of heights. Another problem is you have to be able to have the capacity to carry your bags up with you. I don't think I have that stamina anymore.

It was a big dream of mine I think almost all the companies that do this are international, but they stop at US Ports like Houston Oakland or LA.

I am very adventurous. But now that I am older it's hard to deal with my limitations. Maybe you can go!!

Copa, I have checked into the container cruises. I was told they don't have the same strong stabilizers like regular passenger ships and I do get sea sick sometimes. Also crossing the oceans for days with rough seas would be hard to take. I took a passenger ship from South Hampton England to NYC with my family in 1964. I remember it like yesterday. I remember the seas getting very rough. My grandmother was cruising in Europe when it was just getting started. 1910.
We had a good family day today. I told my husband that the urge to pummel him was only 3 times today, that is a record.
My daughter was in a better mood but still odd. Someday I would like to just enjoy her and not have to work so hard to put all the puzzle pieces together or try to figure out the lies. Some how I can feel the creepy boyfriend trying to creep back into her life. If that is the case she will regress back to square one. She tells me she is done with him completely but time will tell.
My bipolar sister in law married her 4th husband and this guy calms her down. It is nice to know that she is finally with someone that helps her stay calm. I pray this for my daughter to find a stable person to help her calm down and for her to contribute to his well being.
I have been adopted again, this time by a little kitten. I found him in my backyard before the big freeze. I sent fliers around seeing if he is someone's pet and no one claimed him so I have been taking care of him. He has the sweetest disposition and brings in so much love into our home. Sometimes I wonder if a large prey bird accidently dropped him into our backyard. Many pets go missing around here.
Last Sep my husband and I did some hiking. I can still climb but I am a bit more winded in the higher elevations. While hiking, I got a nasty rash of poison ivy. I needed to sleep but was up all night itching. (This part was truly amazing). My daughter heard about my rash, flew up ( 3 hour flight) to where we were, went to the store to get rash ointment and treated my rash most of the night. I think that was truly something I never expected. I was capable to taking care of myself. That is something major nice and just like that she can turn on a dime and treat me horribly.

Not sure what I am going to do when that relative is here but will think of something. Thank you for the suggestion. *Love*

 

[Copabanana]

I have been adopted again, this time by a little kitten. I found him in my backyard

M and I are up to 5 kitties. All of them are rescues. The newest two he found abandoned in his yard. They were less than 3 weeks. We had to bottle-feed them and here they are with me. They are adorable, sweet pushy boys that are 13 weeks or so now and still want to suck my neck and face. It drives me crazy.
I hope your daughter finds a good, good-natured, and stable man, and has the sense to get down on her knees with thanks. Wouldn't that be a miracle?

 

[newstart]

M and I are up to 5 kitties. All of them are rescues. The newest two he found abandoned in his yard. They were less than 3 weeks. We had to bottle-feed them and here they are with me. They are adorable, sweet push,y boys that are 13 weeks or so now and still want to suck my neck and face. It drives me crazy.
I hope your daughter finds a good, good-natured, and stable man, and has the sense to get down on her knees with thanks. Wouldn't that be a miracle?

Copa, Oh my gosh, 5 little kitties. Thank you for taking care of them. All our animals have been rescues. It breaks my heart to see people breeding animals when the shelters are so full of wonderful animals. Went to the gym with my daughter today. She also bought lunch. She is sweet and odd at the same time. I spend time with her but I don't really know her. She is secretive with so much. I listen to tone of voice and face expression for the truth. I always have to work with her. It is nice when I get with my trusted friends and the relationship is respectful and trusting and I don't have to work so hard to find the truth. I have one friend in particular that has 4 wayward children, all of them off track. She is always honest with me. I have known her 17 years and with her I can truly relax and share. Her life has been horribly hard, worse than most people yet she keeps herself looking good. She is always well put together, nice clothes, perfect hair and make up.
Thank you for hoping my daughter will find a good mate. I pray this prayer all the time. A good man that will calm her swings. It would be a miracle and I believe in miracles.
My husband has been acting a bit better and trying but not backing down from his relative coming to town. He just wants one of his family members to act decent and thinks this guy maybe can pull it off. I have yet to see any of them act better or kind or anything that resembles good.
*Love*

 

[Copabanana]

I have one friend in particular that has 4 wayward children, all of them off track. She is always honest with me.

I don't have any friends outside of this board that have troubled children. It is a bit odd and hard. They NEVER bring up my son. They don't ask about him, nor would they understand if they did ask. Either there is subtle (no not so subtle) mother-bashing or they catastrophize him (like tell me he is schizophrenic) and make me feel worse than ever. This board has helped me accept my life and accept myself. I am always grateful.

Your poor husband. He seems to just want to able to hold onto some piece of his family of origin life to hold onto as good.