Update on Jumper and J and the truth about the relationship

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by MidwestMom, Aug 15, 2012.

  1. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    For those who aren't tired of this, here is an update and some interesting (and infuriating) info I found out about Jumper and J's relationship. This is kind of a rant and probably not well written, but it's therapeutic. I am really upset with myself.

    First of all, Jumper had a friend over the other day and the friend was talking about how Jumper hadn't really hung out with her much during their sophomore year (they had once been close). Jumper said she hadn't hung out with anyone last year (I hadn't known that) because of J. She said she would fight with him half the night almost every night, with him accusing her of cheating (she never did) and then go to school tired and depressed. It's a miracle that her grades actually improved. Nothing else did. She's a great athlete, but she used to fight with J. before games and then not even care about the game. This was especially noticeable during basketball. A few times she was crying on the bench. She said she fouled out once on purpose just to be able to go to locker room and get ready to go home. He would often pick fights right before her games. When they were together they didn't fight that much, but they were texting a lot more than they were together. In fact, they texted morning to night, constantly. I hadn't known the extent of it. Jumper realizes she destroyed her sophomore year and lost her friends for J. She said, "I make fun of girls who give up their lives for a guy, but I did the same thing. I will never do it again."

    Jumper is not interested in dating right now, not after J. He was very verbally abusive to her and still is (yes, he still texts her and it infuriates me). i just found out he was still texting her while talking to her and her friend. Anyhow, Jumper told me, when I brought up that abusive men tend to get jealous and try to isolate their wives, that J. could turn out to be an abuser. He never hit her, but she believes he could hit somebody if he lived with her because "when he gets angry, he can't control himself." Jumper is just now starting to hang out with her friends again. What makes me sad is that I know she still has feelings for J. Thank the Good Lord that he is now in Indiana. Not that he'd date her again...but I like him far, far away.

    I didn't know that he made her cry at prom. That he wouldn't even talk to her friends because he didn't like any of them. That he was abusing her. I never would have helped him if I'd known. Jumper learned a hard lesson for a fifteen year old. Thankfully, they really never did have sex and he isn't into drugs or drinking...that never went on. That's the only positives...plus the lessons it taught Jumper.

    Jumper has a basketball teammate who is dating a boy who is similar to J. He won't "allow" her to speak to or look at other boys. They ARE intimate. This girl is pretty much not allowed to do anything or he told her "we're done if I don't find you at home." He's at college now and checks up on her. The sad thing is, her mother, like I used to believe, thinks her daughter has a GREAT relationship with this boy and she LOVES him. In fact, she allows him to stay overnight and have sex with her sixteen year old daughter under her roof. It doesn't bother her. His mother loves HER too and they are going to bring her to visit their son at college when they go. I want to tell her the truth, but I can't. That would trace the source right back to Jumper.

    I really wonder how level-headed girls, like mine, can get so involved with a guy that she will do anything he says. Jumper is NOT the submissive, compliant type! I guess J being older than her was a factor (15 and 18). As for her basketball teammate, her boyfriend sounds just as bad.

    Well, my heart is broken for Jumper, but school starts soon and she's busy...volleyball, student council, hopefully making it right with the friends she ignored last year. OH YEAH! Even though J isn't dating Jumper anymore, he STILL calls her out when she posts about a boy on her FB or when a boy posts to her. Can you BELIEVE it???

    Ok, that's the update and a vent. Hopefully some girl will get ahold of him at school and he'll turn his obsession on her and leave my daughter alone. Let a girl his own age deal with him. I just want him to leave Jumper alone. Remember how worried I was about J and his mental health issues? I guess I wasted my time worrying about him. He isn't a very nice person, after all.
  2. Star*

    Star* call 911........call 911

    I'm glad to see that Jumper isn't with J anymore and have been for a while. When you described HIS parents to us/me?? Red flags went up all over the place, and wow did this kid play everyone about poor little him. Honestly I wasn't too sure about it - but usually when left in those types of environments? UBER CONTROLLED - the kids turn out to be the same, and stastistically this case didn't disappoint. He'll never change. He's 18 and he likes himself. He's become EXACTLY what his parents wanted him to be - and not a complete opposite either - so unless he has some major epiphany? He is what he is.

    Jumper on the other hand - will in her own time need to stop feeling so sorry for him. I think LARGELY her relationship with J was based on pity. She was always trying to protect him from his evil parents, controlling Mother, horrible step parents...and the fact that she stood up to a lot of the things she believed in? May have given him an idea that he could too - but sadly - his fate was sealed before he met her. She just was a breath of fresh air in a stagnant home. They managed to ruin that for him too, but indirectly or directly (take your picture) so did he.

    I thin kthe what and how of WHEN women get smart about horirble men they date is based on balances. If you never date a bad guy, and then you date a really good one? You may never know what was bad and what was good. And if you date a really bad one, and you're fresh off the farm? YOu may just get inhaled into his world of gloom and doom, and controlling behaviors. Jumper was very lucky to have you P - because when you saw signs - you made mention of it - and gave her food for thought. She's a smart girl - she figured THAT out - and she'll figure this out too. Time is about the only thing that is going to make her sit back and go "OMG I am Soooooooo tired of his (insert whatever) I wish he'd stop." and then? It will - because SHE says it needs to. OR because she meets a nice guy - closer in age - and at this point for her mental age vs a boy - since they're about 3 years behind girls (chuckling) I think she could probably date another guy a little older but I'd say no more than 1.5 years. AND NEVER without a chapperone. (See I have this granddaughter now I ......well my list is so long I ran out of 15/15 pages on text to Mommy of what Addison can and can't do) hahaha. Starting with boys, piercings, tattoos, guages, smoking, drinking, cursing......yeah my list was SO long K said she would print it out.......I said never mind - I have it in a story book .....you can read it to her EVERY SINGLE night. - she laughed.....then I laughed because she RALLY doesn't know me. LOL.

    Hang in there MOm..........Our beautiful girl.....? Student body this year - I vote for PRESIDENT JUMPER.

    Hugs & Love
  3. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Not always - but frequently - an age gap of more than a year is a huge red flag. For teenagers, a year is huge. Even a 17yo with a 15yo is an automatic power imbalance, no matter which gender is older. Ideally, they are within a year in age, AND in the same grade.

    At 25, a difference of 2 or 3 years is less obvious. At 45, a 5-year gap is not a problem. It's not like I believe marriage requires being born the same year.

    Of course... teen boys mature at a different rate than teen girls. Both... unevenly. It's part of nature's plan to make the opposite gender both attractive AND a total pain at the same time.

    Star? I totally get where you're coming from. I'm trying to find a way to build a cage around a girl, too... but mine's a bit older, and I have to find a way to be really subtle about it or it won't work!
  4. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    MWM... What Star and IC said was right. I can offer my own perspective from when I was about that age.

    Jumper is beautiful and popular. I wasn't. But something else we DID have in common - brains. From everything I've read, she's pretty darned smart. And guys are both drawn to, and intimidated by, brains. (Thanks to my husband for this observation.) And... It's my personal belief that ALL teens have self esteem issues to some extent.

    So there's this cute guy, and they talk a bit. Immediately, "he wants her for a possession, like a painting, or an ivory box; something to hold and to display." And she finds out that his home life is, well, rather icky. But hers isn't - she's got awesome parents. Not everything's perfect, of course, but she wants to share that with him, make his life a little brighter.

    He loves this brightness - moth to a flame - and latches on. HARD. But then... Because of the way he was raised... The latch becomes a viselike clamp. To continue the quote, "he doesn't want her to be real, to think, or to live." Because if she DOES think? She will RUN - because she won't be able to LIVE, in that iron grip.

    At the same time, this is more attention than a guy has EVER paid to her and it feels good to be the center of someone's universe. Society pretty much tells girls that they MUST be the ONLY thing their man ever thinks about, and vice-versa - she must do everything he says to keep him happy. At the expense of her own self.

    I had a couple of BFs like that. I had one who pretty much was my "slave" - but still to this day (20+ years later, ugh) he pops up out of nowhere. He would've squashed me like a bug while I thought I was the dominant one. I'm glad I couldn't deal with the sycophantic behavior back then...
  5. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    Young love is a naive love, inexperienced both in love itself and what it means, and inexperienced in relationships. This is why teens usually go through boys/girls like tissue. It's a learning process. But due to this it is also easy for a girl to slip into an abusive relationship without realizing what is happening, then have difficulty seeing the relationship as abusive even once it ends. Many girls do get there given time, end the relationship and tend to move on......those that fail to learn the lessons repeat them over and over until they do.......those that learn the lessons never forget them and won't allow themselves to be treated that way again.

    First love is a very powerful thing, nearly overwhelming, blinding us of much of reality......but it can't hold that intensity forever and that is where reality begins to set in. The younger a person experiences their first true love the more vulnerable they are.

    easy child's first real relationship was abusive. Not overwhelmingly so, yet it was abusive. The boy was a nice kid and a long time friend of the family but he had issues and was a difficult child. Took easy child 4 yrs to see reality, she had fallen hard. When she did, that was that.
  6. hearts and roses

    hearts and roses Mind Reader

    Wow, so glad that Jumper is not with J also and is determined to be on her own for a little bit...It is important for her to figure out who she is and what she wants before she decides to share herself and time with another boyfriend.

    When easy child fell in love for the first time it was with Casper...he was two years older than her. I immediately had reservations because my mom used to always wonder aloud, "Now why would a 19 year old man with all the freedom in the world want to date an underage girl? Hmmm" Mom was right! Why indeed?? To intimidate and control her----due to his own insecurities about himself, that's why!

    Also, I notice (and have had discussions with both difficult child and easy child about this and they agree) that many relationships are built on this wierd kind of 'ownership' and control by the young men these days more and more. I think some men are threatened by the fact that women can have independence and so once they are dating, they try to intimidate them and control them, in particular with first loves. easy child gave up almost all her friends when she was with Casper. easy child is a weirdo anyway about relationships as she tends to only be able to handle one on one type of friendships as well so when she is dating someone, that one friend takes a backseat and often falls apart and then all she has left is the boyfriend, Know what I mean?? But she's never had a 'circle' of girlfriends - wish she did.

    I once suggested to both my girls to 'play the field', date a few different guys to see what else is out there and they both looked at me like I had four heads. They said, in unison, "Mom, people don't do that anymore". Apparently, only one at a time or you come across as a ****, even if you're not having sex with them...I don't get that! I think dating should make a comeback so they can all see what else is out there. How will they be able to know they've found Mr/Mrs Right if they've only one or two people in their short lives??

    Hugs to you mom, don't beat yourself up...you acted on what you knew at the time.
  7. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Thanks. I agree with all of you. However, Jumper isn't one of those girls who NEEDS a boyfriend and she isn't the least bit interested in having one again anytime soon...lol. I also agree about the power play and age gap. It didn't bother me because I used to date older guys, however I wasn't like Jumper. I went from guy to guy quickly so nothing got serious in any way. Jumper is not flighty that way. She will never go from guy to guy.

    I hope she doesn't have another boyfriend until college.
  8. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    As you know I am too old to be into technology but I'm pretty sure you can block access to FB and even my old flip top cell allows me to refuse calls. Any chance Jumper would take those steps so she isn't tracked by J? DDD

    PS: I don't know how "dating" got phased out. Lordy it was such fun going out with multiple guys in a single weekend and not even worry about romance.
  9. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    Interestingly, with the whole dating thing... I never "dated" until I was 30. I was seeing a 40-y/o that a friend introduced me to (C); a 26-y/o another friend introduced me to (S); and husband.

    Funny thing - Thursday I went out with C, just dinner (I think we went to Bob Evans). He was going to TX on temporary duty. REALLY nice guy (in fact he and I still talk every now and then - and he knows husband). Friday, husband took me and Onyxx and Jett to a haunted house. He was going to England for 2 weeks that Sunday. And then Saturday I went to dinner with S.

    I had one more date with S in the next 2 weeks - I'd had 3 or 4 with C in the weeks before. But I couldn't stop thinking about husband. The haunted house was our first date - on Halloween. FWIW, I hate haunted houses.

    Anyway, now that I am completely off topic... Dating 3 people like to killed me. And it was pretty laid back...
  10. hearts and roses

    hearts and roses Mind Reader

    I know, I loved dating! It was such fun to just go out without any misconceptions or preconceived notions...

    Also, I want to add, MWM, part of what also killed the romance for easy child and Casper way back is that they were technilogically ALWAYS connected. She was getting so stressed out because of the constant texting and contact that I began having her leave her cell at home during the day. Drove Casper nuts! He had already graduated and was at work all day wondering about her every move while at school and then her afternoon pt job. It's too much too young.
  11. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    Whatever happened, in my humble opinion, happened between 1960 and 1974. I thought it was just my children who didn't date but their friends and alot of cousins went to movies and dances in a group..usually same sex. I was shocked that even Prom was often a group of girls going...and even dancing with each other. WHAT?? :916blusher: I had a combo of six teenagers when I was only 36. How did things change so fast? I don't know. DDD
  12. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    We did the "group" thing... but it was always mixed gender. It was a "safe" way to scope out the other gender, build friendships - and yes, even now, some of my friends are guys.

    In our social circle, this mixed-gender-group dynamic is still really common - and includes a wide range of ages of "singles" - no old fogies like me, but anything from 14 to about 24.
  13. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    No. She is having trouble letting go of him, even though he isn't pleasant. Now *I* could get involved and write him or his nutty parents a letter at college and tell him/them to either defriend her and never text her again or I will go to the cops. There is a silly law in Wisconsin in which an eighteen year old boy is not allowed to even kiss an underage girl or he can be tapped as a sexual predator. Needless to say, it is a law that is broken all the time and I don't believe in the law. But I have fantasies of writing him a letter just to scare him away from her because I CAN press charges. He DID kiss her and he IS texting her and I, his mother, don't want him to do so.

    But I think my trust with Jumper would go down the toilet. At 16 I always start to pull away a little bit if the teen is basically responsible (this was NOT the case with difficult child teen). Although I still make her tell me exactly where she is and exactly who she is with and she has to be home at specific times, I think it's over-the-top to make J stop texting her. After all, he is in Indiana. I sort of think that, sadly, I have to let this go and hope Jumper figures it out herself or that some college twit starts going after J...it's bound to happen. He's good looking and there are plenty of females there. If he makes the football squad, he will get a lot of unlucky females after him who don't know what he's like, but it will get his mind off of Jumper.

    Jumper is seeing him for who he is, but it is just hard for her to make that final cut. She DOES seem much happier than when she first broke up with him and, God help me, I hope she isn't still begging him back. At any rate, even if she is, I am pretty sure he won't take her up on it. He thinks she's a cheater and he has called her worse such as skank, which she IS NOT. Ever want to strange somebody? LOLOL :)

    I will never again give her MY permission to see him and will use the age card. Now if he changes his mind when he's in from Indiana and wants to see her, there is probably very little I can do to be sure she isn't seeing him. she can say she is going to a friend's house and he can go there too. However, lol, ALL her friends hate him. I have that in my favor. When she broke up with him and listed her new status as single, over 50 people gave her a "like" for the breakup on FB.

    Why can't kids date more than one person at one time? WE used to date many guys at one time. In her school, that isn't done.
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2012
  14. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    I'm finding out that my teens make a distinction... friend-boy is not same as boy-friend. And yes, they use those terms. (same for friend-girl and girl-friend). You are allowed any number of friends, of EITHER gender. You can go to the movies, bike riding, whatever - the same stuff you would do with a friend of the same gender, you can do with the opposite gender. BUT... "romantic interest" is limited to one at a time.