Update on Tinkerbell

[Big Bad Kitty]

This might get lengthy. My advanced apologies. I also apologize for not being on the board more. I've been lurking, reading, but not feeling as though I have much to offer. And as is my nature, when things get tough I tend to isolate. Yeah, I know. Real healthy. An excellent example for the kid, right?

OK. So you all remember (and if not, here is a refresher) that Tink was caught looking at online porn a couple months ago. Well we have a new psychiatrist and a new therapist as well. (I can never keep the abbreviations straight...psychiatrist for psychiatrist and therapist for therapist? Well that's how I am going to assume it is) I had every intention of letting the therapist know about that incident but by the time we started seeing her it was long since an issue, plus we were dealing with other things (her dad in jail, plus the royal meltdown that I captured on video) so I never got to it. Last week's session, she was so out of control that therapist almost had to call for a transport to the ER.

This past weekend Tink had the same friend overnight (same friend that called attention to Tink's surfing skills). I talked to her mom this morning and evidently they got creative playing with Barbies. According to friend's mom, they had the dolls engaging in sex. Friend's mom also said that friend told her that Tink told friend that she was going to take her pitchfork (plastic toy pitchfork that she used for her Halloween costume) and stick it in her (friend's) vagina. I am beside myself! I wasn't going to ask Tink about it today since we see therapist tomorrow, but she overheard and when I got off the phone she immediately said "it was friend's idea". WHen I asked her exactly what the friend's idea was (she only heard my half of the conversation so she had no idea what friend's mom said) she told me that friend suggested they make the Barbie's in a strip club. They used the pitchfork as the stripper pole. How in the hell do 8 year olds know what a stripper pole is?

Now, I know that friend is a story teller. She generally does not out and out lie but she embellishes her stories constantly. I also know that it does not matter which of these things happened (or maybe they both did) and probably each girl is at least partly responsible. I asked Tink again if anyone had ever touched her inappropriately. She swears no, and I believe her. But I wonder if she saw things she should not have at some point wiht her dad and she is not telling in order to protect him. I just don't know. I am at a loss.

More and more I am seeing how much of Tink's attitued is my fault. She is so spoiled, she acts so entitiled, so selfish...at least some of this had to be because I reaised her that way. I am feeling really defeated and unsure if I can go on. I don't know if I have it in me. I am so depressed over this. Does she maybe need an Residential Treatment Center (RTC)? Her behavior is not constant. It's so hit or miss. I am so drained.

I have nothing but admiration for you moms out there who keep going (I am thinking of KLMNO right now, I read your daily updates and can't believe how much you do).

 

[JJJ]

BBK,

All of us wish we could undo some of our parenting decisions, but all of us did the best we could at the time. As we learned more, we did do better. I would tell the therapist about both incidents as well as your instinct that something happened or she saw something when she was with her dad. She or her friend may have also seen things on tv and be acting them out without full understanding of it.

You are a great mom for Tink. I think if it gets to the point that she needs Residential Treatment Center (RTC), you will help her get it. But I also think you will know when it is time.

Can Copper babysit next weekend? It sounds like you need time to recharge your batteries.

 

[rejectedmom]

BBK, Sometimes we never know why our kids do the things they do. When that is the case we just have to bring it to the therapist and hope that with work our difficult child's will learn whythe problem behavior is not good for them. If Tink was viewing porn she could have seen anything. I strongly suggest you get a program such as Wisechoice that will not allow your computer to go to any of these sites. That will prevent future viewing. The sexual acting out needs to be addressed not avoided. Do it with the therapist's assistance. You may want to give her a head's up on it before your next session.

As far as your feelings of inadequacy; in my opinion you need to start loving yourself more and forgive your weaknesses. All humans have thier weaknesses. That is why we all need support and validation. The key is to identify what those weaknesses are and get help with all things that pertain to that given area.

Remember your Tink is only 8. Some of us vetrans have been dealing with difficult child's and their behaviors for twenty or more years. We all had to learn how to be strong. When to engage and when to retreat. It is a process and we all are on a learning curve. (((HUGS))) -RM

 

[Star*]

Kitteh.....

The thought has occured to me - that the first time this friend was over is the first time you got to see or hear about the porn surfing....okay I put up a red flag mentally for both - BOTH girls. Experimental, someone talking in school, something they saw on TV...what ever.

So then a couple of weeks goes by and no reports that Tink is surfing the web for porn (if she had more than a curiosity she'd be looking) and then the friend comes over AGAin - and WHAM - back to stripper poles, sex and vaginas. So it comes to my mind that the LAST time any sexual misconduct was an issue with these 2 girls - was when friend was around.

I'm more inclined to believe at this point that friend has more to do with this than Tink. Maybe no more playdates with friend or find out where else she goes (other girls' homes) and ask their Moms if there is every any sex play talk.

 

[house of cards]

I'm pretty sure we all have room to improve, but don't be so hard on yourself. Some things are just hard wired into our kids and while you can modify it, You can't fix it. Maybe Tink would have been even more of a "princess" without all that you have done. I understand that you need to investigate the sex things going on with Tink, but hasn't everybody put Ken on top of Barbie?? I would be more concerned about the talk of putting things places and I would definately want to kbnow if that happened.

 

[KTMom91]

BBK, we've all made mistakes with our kids. I'm sure I'm still making mistakes! I know it's easier said than done, but don't beat yourself up. You're a caring, concerned mom seeking help for her child. Lots of people don't even take that step.

Star has a good point about the issues surfacing when the two girls are together. That's definitely something I'd bring up with the doctor.

I've missed seeing your "evil kitty laughter"! Sending many hugs.

 

[klmno]

Thanks BBK- I'm not feeling so good at parenting, myself, right now though. As far as Tink, I wonder if maybe she's not getting some of this from the other girl or someone at school. She's at the age where kids at school will be making an issue about anything they hear or find at home- you know, a boy runs across a playboy at home and goes to school talking about nude women. I think you were right to talk to Tink to see if there's any indication of molestation, but she could be getting this a lot of different ways.

I do think I would keep her and that other kid separated a while, though. Smething is starting to not look so good about the other kid playing with Tink in ways like that, then telling her mother all these things "Tink" is doing, then the mother being concerned and calling you twice. I'd be concerned of who this mother might call in the future if this happens again before you get to the bottom of it. And, is there any indication that Tink is doing any of this with any other kid?

 

[DaisyFace]

Hello--

Yes, I have found that there are plenty of kids at school who find innappropriate stuff online and feel free to bring it to class to share with their friends.

For example, the "Twilight" books and the movie were all big hits in the 6th grade and up crowd. And I was fine with difficult child reading it until I discovered that there was a group of girls in her school that participated in a "fan website" (and I'll use that term loosely) that posted all kinds of sexually explicit stories and scenarios featuring the characters in the books. Pondering whether Bella's vagina would develop teeth and what it might do to her lovers was a big issue on the school bus in the afternoons.

I do think you need to do more investigating about where your daughter is getting her information. You might be guarding your computer--but I can guarantee that there are plenty of parents that aren't.

Good luck!

--DaisyF

 

[BestICan]

I would like to offer my support. Obviously we need to be careful and watchful, but I do think sex play is very common in kids this age. What I'm hearing is that (a) she found some online porn (this is a common scenario if you poll the parents of kids in my difficult child's school - I HAVE polled them, because I was horrified when it happened to my kid!) (b) they used dolls to symbolize some Barbie/Ken lovin' (I think this is common but I have no real experience with Barbie dolls) and (c) there was TALK about penetration, but not actual penetration, with a toy.

I think concern and good guidance is in order. I agree that perhaps this friend may be instigating things more than we know at this time. But I do not think that you need to blame yourself, or that this is cause for a crisis of confidence or a re-examination of your mothering skills. You deserve to cut yourself some slack! I think things could have been a LOT more awful. I love that you and the other parent are talking openly. I love that you're being judicious about when to speak with Tink, and getting her therapist involved.

Sometimes I think it's difficult to put certain typical behaviors in perspective when we have lots of difficult child issues to deal with but I think this situation - at least some part of it - falls within the spectrum of "typical/normal." I hope your therapist helps you identify which elements here are not typical.

 

[bran155]

BBK,

Don't beat yourself up so much. We all are guilty of "questionable parenting" at times. Heck, the kids don't come with a handbook!!! You are a good mother who is desperately trying to help her daughter. That is to be commended. While I agree that spoiling a child is never the answer, I am SO guilty of that!!!! I don't however, believe that it creates all the problems our children have. My daughter acts extremely entitled, in part to me but I believe mostly due to her Borderline (BPD)!!! I know hundreds of children who were and are spoiled who do not have the issues ours do.

Star made some very valid points. How odd is that this only seems to come up when the friend is around???

Hang in there, you can go on. Keeping you in my thoughts.

 

[gcvmom]

I agree with Star. The "friend" seems to be a consistent element to this whole situation. I'd be thinking hard about whether this is a relationship that is healthy for Tink, regardless of her 8yo attitudes and behaviors that are bothering you. I think those are separate issues and not necessarily worth beating yourself about.

(((HUGS)))

 

[Star*]

YEAH!!! What Star said..



Hug my princess for me......I'm staring at her picture RIGHT now - SQUISH HER I COULD!!!!!!

 

[Wiped Out]

BBK,
I agree I would probably not let the two hang out together right now. Please be gentle with yourself. None of us are perfect!

 

[TerryJ2]

BBK, sigh. I cannot tell you how many times I have second-guessed myself in regard to what I should have done, had I only known. Point is, I didn't know.

Don't worry so much over your parenting skills. Really. If you were that bad, you wouldn't be here with-us. I have faith that most of us are here because we truly care about our kids and we want help, advice, and a soft shoulder to cry on. None of us is here because we are perfect.

I agree with-Star, that the Barbie issue seems perpetuated or even initiated by this friend. Lots of kids have tortured Barbies since the day Mattel came out with-them. Next time you go to a garage sale, check out the little pin marks in Barbie's b**bs. Then go online to the comedy and humor pages and do a search for Barbies or something. (You'll have to be careful the way you type it ... "Barbies" and "dolls" both call up all sorts of porn in and of themselves!) But what I'm trying to say is that it is fairly common for kids to do that sort of thing.

It's just that you have the possibility of some exposure with-her bio dad and ... who, his girlfriend? Leaving the door open or something? (I'm sorry, I'm trying to figure out the allusion in your note), which may have added to your difficult child's interest. At this point, I wouldn't pursue it too much, because you could keep putting the idea back into her head, if you Know what I mean?, and creating a vicious circle.

What concerns me is your daughter's age ... but kids these days are doing everything way younger. So maybe the Barbie thing is age appropriate.

Still, I would try to keep her engaged in more useful activities--Girl Scouts (or whatever she can handle), working in the yard, art projects, etc., and keep her away from that friend.

My difficult child has some friends like that. And I have no doubt that other parents say that about my difficult child.

 

[tiredmommy]

{{{BBK}}}

Just because you have a difficult child doesn't mean it's always your child causing problems. I think it can be hard for us to be objective and fair to our kids because their history dictates that they behave poorly. The only concern I might have is clinical: is it within the realm of possibilities that Tink has Early Onset Bi-Polar (EOBP) and is experiencing some hyper sexuality? It truly doesn't seem that way to me because the scenario described by Tink is pretty typical. The scenario described by the friend is not.

I know it's hard to separate your child from their friend especially when she has trouble maintaining friendships. But believe me, now is the time to micro-manage her interactions somewhat. I think you aren't truly going to know if something is up with Tink until you separate her from the friend. If another friend reports the same sorts of activities initiated by Tink then it's probably true. Think of it as a scientific experiment. Call Tink's teacher or ask her coach if there's a girl that would be a good fit Tink to be friends with and have play dates. Find out who she sits with at lunch or who sits next to her on the bus. You live in a pretty big town and there's a near endless supply for her to make friends. Make sure they are the ones that help Tink by modeling good behavior.

And BBK... you only recently started standing your ground with Tink. It's going to take more than a few months for her to understand that she won't get her way by acting out. And (here's my tough love for you) you don't get to not be up to parenting her. I know you know this. I want you to get up tomorrow morning, brush yourself off and jump back into the parenting trenches. Tink needs you.

 

[Big Bad Kitty]

TM, you could not be more right. I know I don't get not not be up to it. Sometimes, I just want to whine about it a bit.

We see the therapist today. I think I will go in and talk to her a bit first before we send Tink in.

Thank you all for your feedback.