Update on 'When is enough, enough?'

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Burndoubt, May 31, 2009.

  1. Burndoubt

    Burndoubt Burndoubt

    Well, I took easy child 1 & 2 out yesterday all day on a Girl Scout outing. I'd asked husband to keep an eye on difficult child while we were gone. Do stuff with him, spend some time with him. Don't leave him all alone for the day.
    husband & difficult child went out and did things together for a bit, then husband left that afternoon to go help out some friends move.
    That afternoon (yesterday), difficult child decided playing around with the candles (a HUGE no-no) in the house was boring, and decided to kick it up a notch by playing with the gas can we use to refill the lawnmower, a stick, and a lighter.
    Scared the crud out of himself. Thankfully, he's not hurt, and one of our neighbors is a fireman, who put out the flames before the fire trucks got here (which, difficult child had the presence of mind to call 911, thank heavens).
    Our fridge/freezer is gone, our steam cleaner is gone, the miter saw is looking like it's past repairs, one garage door doesn't work, my cake decor kit is a bust, and the siding on the house in a couple spots needs to be replaced due to heat buckling.
    All in all, it could have been so much worse.
    I'm flipping about every 3 minutes between thanking G_d, crying, and being beyond furious.
    husband says there's nowhere to send difficult child. We're all he has. He can't 'give up' on him. I want difficult child to get the intensive help he NEEDS in order to function without hurting himself/others/property. It's pretty obvious to me (& everyone else but husband) that difficult child's not getting it at this point. His weekly counseling isn't enough.
    Where do you do with a child who needs help like this? Where do you go?
  2. Andy

    Andy Active Member

    His weekly counselor should have some options in that area. Is there a day treatment program nearby that he can attend?

    I don't remember how old your difficult child is. Are you a stay at home mom who can keep tabs on him this summer?

    I would ask the weekly counselor directly for more intense options of treatment to be ADDED to the weekly counseling.
  3. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    There are three symptoms of kids who are at high risk for psychopathy (we found this out after adopting a child who turned out to be psychopathic). If a child does all three, he is well on his way.

    1/harming animals

    2/Peeing or pooping inappropriately

    3/starting fires

    There are a lot of Residential Treatment Center (RTC)'s. Some are good, some aren't. husband would need to do homework, but help is out there. If he gets no help, he may become an adult psychopath and REALLY hurt people. Next time the entire house could burn down. Maybe have husband read the site. Good luck.
  4. fight4justice

    fight4justice New Member

    Have you tried a fishing lake
  5. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    Does husband go to the therapy sessions with you? I suspect not.

    If husband doens't go, then he has already given up on him, nd on your struggle with difficult child.

    husband is using excuses to not face up to the consequences of his past neglect of the issues. Now it's coming home to roost.

    Does husband still plan on working away from home for months? That is also giving up on difficult child. The boy NEEDS a hands-on father, you need respite.

    Tell husband that difficult child needs a parent advocate and it can no longer be you. So husband now has to get very hands-on. Go to the appointments, listen to the therapist, talk to the therapist, go over the list of concerns from BOTH of you.

    Otherwise - it's all blarney, he isn't committed as he claimes to be.

    Sometimes keeping a kid at home when it's not working, IS giving up on the kid.

  6. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Im sorry, I just cracked up at this. Im sure it wasnt meant to be funny but the only thing that went through my mind was...only if they intended to drown him.

    I know, Im bad!

    Im so sorry things are progressing so horribly. I dont know what you can do. With the other stuff he has done and now this fire setting, sigh....it is just too much.
  7. Shari

    Shari IsItFridayYet?

    I apologize as I don't recall the details of your family, but I'm assuming difficult child's antics aren't new, and I would be furious with husband for thinking he'd be fine to be left alone.

    I agree with the others that husband needs to get on board, and that means if his kid needs him at home, his friend might have to call someone else to help move...

  8. Burndoubt

    Burndoubt Burndoubt

    Trying to answer questions & fill out a little more background info:
    difficult child is my 13 year old stepson. He's informed everyone (multiple times) that he feels animals are more important than people. His baby sister was bitten by the dog (not bad, but lightly broke the skin) and he refused to even acknowledge she was hurt/scared. He rushed to the dog's defense from his angry father who immediately put her in her kennel for the night.
    I have serious doubts that he would harm the dog. She sticks to him like glue. difficult child's got some weird stuff going on in his head about animals, but the cartoon type, not in real life. He's been caught 4x looking up porn (& has lost all internet access), two of these times, hanging out at a site for 'yiffing' (anthropomorphic cartoon animal porn). *crosses her eyes* NO idea where he got that one! Sick people out there!!
    The fires, yes. That's a more recent phenomenon that he's been fascinated by playing with. This weekend we were 'strongly urged' by the fire marshall to go to send him to a 'firebug' class.
    Hygenically, he's icky, but no more than the average early teenaged boy. It's a big fight half the time to get him to shower, brush his teeth, wash his face, etc.
    Yes, I'm a stay at home mom, but with a 2 daughters aged 10 & 5. The 5 year old is the one he molested in October. She's forgotten it, mostly. The 10 year old remembers everything. I hurt for her the most, I think. She sees it all, and sees her adoptive father allowing her stepbrother (his son) to skate thru so much.. Right now, his punishment for setting the garage on fire? He's lost his tv & video game priviledges. But he's allowed by his dad to watch tv along with us in the living room. He fights to watch if his dad's not around & it's just the girls & me. I've got to take him with us everywhere now.
    difficult child's counselor is interested in one thing, keeping difficult child safe & helping him, even at the expense of the rest of our family, which is making me livid. He's helped a lot, but at what cost?!? He told me that if I felt we weren't safe and that we had to move out, that was my choice. Smiling the whole time. I want to smack him with a whiffle ball bat, to finally get that da** blank smile off his face. It may help with the patient, but it's making me nuts.
    There's no respite care available in our area. I'm looking into Residential Treatment Center (RTC)'s available to us (on retired military insurance) in our area, but husband has been refusing to even discuss it. He's in complete denial.
    I'm gonna have to tread lightly. Please keep us in your prayers/etc.
    by the way, Thanks, Marge! I really liked the points you made, hoping they help me get mine across to husband.
    Thank you all again so much.
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2009
  9. Burndoubt

    Burndoubt Burndoubt

    *rereads her posts & laughs at Fight's response*
    Thanks! I needed that!!!
  10. gcvmom

    gcvmom Here we go again!

    It would be really helpful if you could go to the User CP (control panel) tab at the top left of the screen and set up a signature so that we can be reminded of your background info when you post. :)
  11. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Don't bet that a kid who molested your daughter wouldn't hurt an animal. Maybe it won't be that dog, but there are other animals. Truly, the molestation would have been the end for me. I would have been gone unless the kid was gone. If I were you, I would concentrate on your daughter and helping her. It isn't good if she surpressed the molestation (I hope it was just one time--I fear it was more). I would focus on getting her help and getting out of the house. I truly don't know why you stay. Your hub is in total denial and will not keep you and the other kids safe. Your kids are being totally traumatized. Also, I find it out and disturbing that he was on a porn site for animal sex with people. I couldn't live with him AND husband's attitude about him. I'd be terrified for the other two kids and myself. But, of course, I don't walk in your shoes either. So good luck no matter what you decide.
  12. amazeofgrace

    amazeofgrace New Member

    why DID husband leave difficult child home alone??? Egads! Perhaps a day at the firehouse and some fire safety lessons are in order, or dare I say explain the reprecussions if any one were to charge him with areson!

    so sorry, very scarey....hope things get better~!
  13. JJJ

    JJJ Active Member

    Fire setting, molesting a younger child...those are both HUGE RED FLAGS that difficult child was or is being sexually abused. Has this been investigated?????
  14. Andy

    Andy Active Member

    If difficult child's counselor wants to keep him safe and help him, it can not be at anyone's expense. To truly help difficult child would be to support him in taking responsibility for his actions. When you do stupid things, you get hurt. Maybe he needs to feel those consequences once in awhile from his counselor. I say time for a new counselor. One who is willing to really work WITH him not FOR him. An overprotective counselor is just as stiffling as an overprotective mom when it comes to not making a child accountable. difficult child has no reason to grow and change with a counselor and dad refusing to see the seriousness of this. They are in fact sending the message that "Good boy who can do no wrong! As long as you SAY you don't mean it it is o.k."

    Don't write the 5 yr old's memory off too fast. She may just be surpressing it and some day it will come out. Something will trigger it and it will be so strong and scary for her at that moment.
  15. Burndoubt

    Burndoubt Burndoubt

    Gotta explain the 'yiffing' thing, 'cuz I know, it's really weird.
    Anthropomorphic= attributing human characteristics to non-human things.
    Cartoons of animals ACTING like humans, engaging in sexual acts.
    *frowns* Or so I've read. But no actual human/animal interactions, from what I'm to understand. Twisted & sick, but not actual beastiality. *shudders* I guess it's similar to a 'gateway drug' for porn. It lures kids in.
    Wish 20/20 would catch the sickos that came up with THAT and put 'em up on primetime.

    Just had a really rough conversation with husband. He had absolutely NO intention of sending difficult child anywhere while he's gone for work (still hoping for a different job to come up before then). I was very clear with my intentions, but he heard what he wanted to hear.
    I tried giving him the info on juvenile psychiatric hospitals in our area that take our insurance, but he absolutely put his foot down. Said that difficult child's 'accident' with setting the garage on fire was not a malicious act. If it was, that would be different, but in his mind, boys play with fire, and it's unfortunate, but not a cry for help. He gets REALLY mad when I bring up difficult child's drawings of himself standing in flames, with a knife to his throat, or dripping blood (drawings he did shortly after the fire of suicidal thoughts. difficult child said it's better that he draw them than do them). husband says he & difficult child discussed it, and that's pretty much that. The pictures are down now, replaced by Pokemon drawings.
    husband finally conceded to me setting up a counseling meeting for us.
    I feel my hand is being forced, and I hate that I feel like my mental health is of little concern to him. That whether he feels his son is a threat or not, his daughter and wife are SCARED of him.
    I asked husband what he can do differently, what he can do with/for difficult child differently to make a difference. I need him to think about it. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over & over, but expecting different results. I told him that I can do no more than I've done. I have to have help. If he expects us to stay, he has to make real changes.
    I pointed out that _I_ am the one who makes difficult child's appointments, makes sure he takes his medications, takes him to his shrink, talks with his shrink, does EVERYTHING for this kid's health. Just going to work & making money isn't enough. It's a great help, no doubt, but he has to do more.
    I am so scared I'll be given no choice but to live scared and sick, and further damage our children, or leave with our daughters. I'm exhausted from crying. Starting to feel like _I'm_ the one with the mental health issues here. Maybe my PTSD won't let me stop being scared, and I'm blowing this all out of proportion. difficult child didn't set the garage on fire with malice, just extremely poor judgement & idle hands. Things are getting all twisted around in my head.
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2009
  16. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    Go to the counselling meeting that husband sets up but take those pictures with you.

    Keep a diary. Be as impartial as you can be, make it clear in your diary that husband attributes the fire to "accident" but make sure you list ALL such "accidents" as well as each and every explanation from husband.

    The problem here - husband is not as involved as he should be but yet claims to have a really thorough understanding.

    Can't have it both ways. If husband wants to have people believe that his analysis is correct, he needs to be able to show that HE is the one in charge of medications, appointments etc and not having lumbered it onto you.

    husband has other children. Notably, a little girl who is very vulnerable right now. husband appears to not take this into account.

    Was there a time in the past when difficult child was in the equivalent position to your little girl, and husband was dismissive and saying, "t was an accident," or "Nothing happened anyway, so let's forget about it."?

    THose who forget the past are condemned to relive it.

  17. Burndoubt

    Burndoubt Burndoubt

    Okay, just a test here to see if my avatar & sigs show up.

  18. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    congratulations! You did it! Now you cna kiss writer's cramp goodbye, no need to keep re-typing your history!

  19. Burndoubt

    Burndoubt Burndoubt

    *takes a bow* thank you, thank you, tyvm!
    Now if I could only get to sleep...
    Hubby was fussing with our gas oven tonight, since the temp's not going up as it should when trying to bake anything... difficult child was really watching him pretty much the whole time. husband was explaining the dangers of gas.
    Guess where my mind's been running now? And I can hear husband yelling at me (in my head) for even thinking it.
    *plants head against desk, then away, then back again, in rapid succession*
    Gotta. Getsum. Sleep...
    It's 2am here.
  20. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Now I may not have a popular opinion here, but I am going to share it anyway. If I am wrong, I am very sorry. If you are just not at a point to act, or don't agree, I will support you in any way I can, regardless. 110% support to whatever you decide to do.

    I think your husband has decided not to deal with difficult child, leaving it to you to do all the doctor visits and therapy and such.

    I also think he has decided to "throw the girls under the bus". The bus being the emotional and physical storm that difficult child is.

    I speak from experience in this next bit.

    There is no way your 5year old daughter is "over" the sexual abuse. No. Way. Not a chance in Hades.

    I am so sorry to have to write that. But I also wonder if he abused the 10 year old. Even if he didn't, both girls need extensive, intense therapy. Just because the 5yo seems okay doesn't mean she is okay. She is just suppressing the event. Which is fairly normal, esp in a house where having your young teen brother at home leads to him burning part of the house and the shed. Or other problems.

    Your husband NEEDS to check back in to his life. ALL of the kids need him to stand up and deal with the realities of this.

    You may need to approach a domestic violence facility for help reaching husband on this and for help to let you see how abnormal things are in your family. They SEEM normal because the situation has grown steadily worse, rather than a huge bomb being set off in your life making a sudden change.

    I can say that my husband would have to make arrangements for the stepson for the time he is out of town or whatever. MAybe he can take difficult child with him, andhomeschool him or use a computer curriculum for the school year.

    But i would not accept responsibility for a child who had molested my 5yo.

    And as a 5yo, I would probably decide things were my fault, esp if my abuser was allowed back into my life. I know that with my experience I truly believed it was my fault because my abuse was chalked up to me being "over sensitive". While I was closer in age to your other daughter, I still would bet your daughter will be a target for more abuse (and may have already been the target) of every kind. At least she will end up with intimacy problems and serious self esteem problems that would lead to a lifetime of picking males who would abuse her to have relationships with.

    PLEASE work to get play therapy and other therapies for young children who are abused. It should be free at the domestic violence place. And they will have a list of therapists who deal with this.

    I know you can't just kick the 13yo out. I truly do. But your husband needs to see this from the view of the victim. HER rights, in my opinion, should be a higher priority. And, actually, getting into a therapeautic residential placement would be the best thing for the 13yo.

    Sending gentle hugs, support and strength. This is such a tough situation.