We've fallen into a trap... need help & resources

DammitJanet

Well-Known Member
I think 3rd and 4th grade is when you really begin to see differences in the academic areas with kids. Behavior problems pretty much shout out from the beginning but kids can sometimes fake their way through until mid-elementary school if they are really bright. You may want to look into some of the executive functions again.

I think it is a grand idea to do some basic charts and baskets. Have exact places certain things go and remind her at certain times that things should be in their right places. Maybe backpack by the door before she goes up to bed. Chart on inside or outside of the bathroom door to remind her what she needs to do in there. Chart in her room about her stuff in there.

We know she is a good girl. If she has some outside order to help her organize, maybe that will help. Like flylady for 9 year olds...lol.
 

Hound dog

Nana's are Beautiful
Lists never worked. Chore boards......were a joke. Allowance was a disaster......even the fines. Nagging....rarely.

I did :

1. natural consequences (especially with school stuff)
2. big on the you don't do this, then you don't get to do something you enjoy doing (like you don't pick up your toys no tv or outside play or whatever)
3. if the 1st two didn't get their attention......and Mom had to pick up after them......it got thrown away. Didn't matter what it was. I never said a word, it just vanished. When it came up "missing" I would say gee, you might want to take better care of your things.

It didn't take long for them to figure out what Mom picked up went into the trash. And that did get their attention. lol Because it really didn't matter what it was....homework....clothes.....favorite toy.....it was so gone. Needless to say.......I didn't have to do #3 very often.
 

KTMom91

Well-Known Member
You've gotten lots of good suggestions already...just adding in my 2 cents on letting school deal with school issues as much as you can. Fourth grade was about the time I started the "not my problem" and "what do you need to do to correct that?" phrases...lather, rinse, and repeat, as someone here said not long ago. I also refused to help with homework unless she asked like a civilized person (another overworked phrase around here) and maintained that civility. The consequences of calling me names meant she was totally on her own.

I could remind till I was blue in the face, but it did no good. After I refused (numerous times) to bring whatever she'd forgotten to school (and we live a block and a half from the elementary school, six blocks from the junior high), and she missed enough recesses for not having her homework, Miss KT got much better at keeping her stuff together. It was also nice that I didn't have to be the bad guy for a change!
 

LittleDudesMom

Well-Known Member
TM,

You've gotten a lot of good suggestions. I can only share what has worked for us. Sorry ahead of time for the lengthiness....

difficult child definitely suffers with his executive functioning. You know, most kids at Duckie's age are naturally disorganized and have poor time management skills - it's part of being a kid! When those issues begin to deteriorate family life or academic life, that's when it's time for us to step in and offer support and solutions. For my difficult child, it began in third grade. It started because he just couldn't keep a handle on papers or assignments, etc. His school desk was a nightmare of classwork, scrap paper, trash, etc.

So, I gave it a lot of thought and bought him a 5 Star binder organizer. I also purchased the heavy duty plastic dividers that had pockets. Every subject had a section and a folder. The rule was that every single piece of paper that was not given to the teacher had to go in the binder and that binder had to come home every single day. It took awhile, many days of no binder home, but he finally got it. At first, papers were just "thrown" into the binder. We would sit down every day at homework time and organize his papers - "what class was this from difficult child?" "Is this a study guide for a test tomorrow?" "Good grade on quiz" At first I sorted everything for him. As time went by, he began to whole punch and organize. That was step one.

Step two was the schedule. Because difficult child was having so many emotional and behavioral issues, I had to cut back on any activity that was not totally necessary. I needed him to get a foothold and it worked. He would come home from school and have two hours to himself. He needed the time. There were some days when he came home and sat quietly by himself on the sofa - kinda of decompressing I guess - before he did anything else.

At 5:00, it was homework time. Same time, same quiet place every single day. It took some getting used to and there were a few exceptions to the time, but for the most part, we stuck to it. I purchased one of those little rolling drawer things and he organized it himself with school supplies. Pencils and markers on one draw, line and plain paper in another, and art supplies like colored paper, glue, scissors in another. It got rolled into the dining room for homework.

The next rule, before you left the homework space, everything was packed up and put away and the backpack was placed by the back door. Neither he nor easy child were allowed to leave their stuff in there. It was my dining room, my call. I chose that space specifically because it was a large room (no cramped feeling), there were no outside influences (radio, tv, etc.), the table was large and it was a place that I insisted stayed clean. It served to get everything important back in the backpack!

A very structured bedtime routine was another part of the plan. It actually was very hard for me because it was a lot of time, but getting him calm and ready for bed made such a HUGE difference in his ability to sleep well and be rested the next morning. His behavior responded to his level of rest. He would do his reading out loud to me, then I would read out loud from something he and I were reading. Then the lights would go off and we would quietly talk about our day.

Money was a great incentive for "chores". Naturally they were (and are) age appropriate but we started with little things like sorting the lights and darks, feeding and watering the dog, bringing around the empty recycling bin, etc. Money was never given for "member of the household responsibilities" like your own dishes, keeping your room clean, etc.

Rather than a "to do" chart it was an "I get" chart. At first it was ten cents. The rule was though, you only got paid if you did your chore without complaint. Complain about it, do it with no renumeration!

There were weeks when difficult child got 30 cents and there were weeks when he got a couple bucks. It was the first way I taught my kids about money and responsibility.

Now difficult child gets an allowance but he also has daily and weekly chores. I no longer tie work to money for allowance but he also understands that it's his responsibility as a member of this family to pull some weight!

So, after writing all this I guess the bottom line is this. Most children your daughter's age are going to have organization issues which drive us crazy (especially if you are like me an very organized and structured - not to mention a sort of control person!). Most kids Duckie's age are going to complain about chores. Most kids are going to dandle around before a task that is not pleasant. Someone else, I think Linda, said that you have to find their currency. I think that is very true.

I think it is also important to do what you all did last night and make her part of it. She is not going to respond the first few times she realizes she has some say. This is new for her. Give her some time before she begins to contribute to these family discussions.

Take a deep breath and realize that it is what it is. She's a nine year old little girl who has an array of interests outside of academics and home life. She has some health issues that flair from time to time and can wreak havoc on her schedule. Start slow. Don't add more than one, two at the most, new things a week. Give her time to master new skills and feel proud of what she is accomplishing. Expecting too much change is defeating. I remember, after several weeks in third grade, difficult child saying to me when he got in the car after school, "I'm really good at remember my 5 Star aren't I?" He was proud of himself for something that would seem so insignificant for someone outside our lives.

The ultimate goal here is for her to learn things that she can carry forward, not for her to be controlled or managed. We are teaching skills for life!

Sharon
 

Shari

IsItFridayYet?
Thanks Shari, Linda & SW. I don't intend to hang her out to dry, but we won't care more about her homework, etc. than she does. Example: I already asked her to make sure that her hw binder goes back in her book bag and she said she'll do it later. It's still sitting on the coffee table. I'll remind her again after dinner and point out that she won't be getting a second reminder starting next week. Her consequence? She doesn't bring her agenda, hw and reading logs to school. I did my part with the first reminder when she said "later". It's her consequence, not mine.

I'll check out that site.

This is what I finally started doing with cgfg. I'd give her reminders to pick her homework up and get it organized, she'd look at me like I had 4 heads and say "after this show" or "I will" or "I'll do it later" and I'd think to myself "Self, she ain't gonna do it, and we ain't gonna say no more" (I use my good grammar when talking to Self). And then when she got to school the next day and called to tell me to bring her homework or her thumb drive, or her project or whatever, I started saying "no, I reminded you to gather it up last night". She's doiing somewhat better about responding to the reminders.

I have also taken a major backseat to school in general. Told her we are done nagging her to do the work, if she wants us to give her reminders, just ask. Wants us to point out a missed assignment when she's beeen sick, just ask (her excuse for not making up work when she's sick is that the teacher doesn't tell her what to do - but she doesn't ask - its not the teacher's responsibility). But we won't breathe a word of it, otherwise. I know she had 7 assignments she didnt' do in the last month. 100% club field trip was Wednensday. She had to turn in those 7 assignments to be able to go. She busted her butt to get them in by Friday. She got D's and F's on all the past assignments, plus 3 of that day's current assignments, most likely because she had to spend her time messing with these other 7 assignments. Now she has 2 grades that are D's. She refuses offers for help and claims to understand it all....so we'll see where things go, but she did buck up and get the work at least turned in so she'd get to go on the field trip. Her next challenge will be getting the grades back up, causee she also can't go if she has a D or an F in any class...
 

tiredmommy

Well-Known Member
Thanks everyone.

Jena- that's too funny about the mirror!

CM- While I generally agree with taking away privileges when a child isn't doing the necessary things, I'm also concerned that she's digging a pretty deep hole for herself. She was already grounded, and realistically, she's taking so long on homework that she really doesn't have much down time. So I ended her grounding a day early and let her play with bff. Just because.

ML- We're fortunate that every student in Duckie's school has a take home binder and agenda. Which is great if she actually remembers to bring stuff home...

Janet- I spoke a little more in depth with Duckie's teacher this morning, gave her a very limited history outlining that it's really been a continual problem. She said that she'll keep a closer eye for the next few weeks and let me know if she thinks I should pursue another evaluation. She said she has seen kids with worse time management and organization skills but conceded that an involved parent making sure everything at least gets in her bag could mask a lot of problems. She hopes that some simple behavior modification and check-ins will bring about a noticeable improvement. I hope so too because I'd hate to put Duckie through an evaluation if she doesn't need it.

Lisa- I have done the "walk-through-the-house-with-a-trash-bag" thing and it does work. But it feels different this time. She hasn't really had a chance to leave her toys laying around, it's more homework, laundry and dishes.

KTMom- Duckie already knows I won't bring stuff to school. I've only retrieved something from school once, when she was crying that she left her bag. She was supposed to do a practice math test for state testing and was just beside herself on the bus on the way home. She has forgot to put items in her bag since then, but hasn't actually forgotten the bag again.

LDM- It's funny you mention difficult child's desk. I had the pleasure of "exploring" Duckie's desk on Parent Night. There were crumpled papers, her toolbox was dumped out, folders were slid inside other folders, etc. I also picked out her locker while walking down the hall... it was the only one with stuff hanging out of it. We're fortunate that her school mandates every student have a binder that is, in essence, much as you describe. Keeping Duckie on a schedule has always been a challenge... it's like she runs on a 25 or 26 hour day rather than 24 like the rest of us.

Shari- I hope Duckie gets it quickly... I really don't want her to be discouraged. I talked to her a little bit tonight, told her how I really thought that her learning these new skills will only improve her life and make her happier. She seemed a little intrigued but we'll see.
 

gcvmom

Here we go again!
I have to throw my 2 cents in...

For difficult child 2, who REALLY struggles with staying organized and remembering to do things, and whose backpack and desk were ALWAYS a mess, with loose papers crumpled in the bottom, nothing put back where it belonged... this was a maturity issue as much as an executive function issue. THIS YEAR he is really, really making progress. He is getting assignments done on time. He is remembering to turn them in. He is not putting as much off to the last minute as he used to. He's been on the same medication combo for about a year now, so I think this is as much an issue of stability for him as it is a case where his brain has matured a bit more.

With that in mind, I think back to much of what Smallworld has pointed out with the Ross Greene material and my favorite quote of all about how kids do well if they can. There is an explanation for her attitude and her avoidance. I think if you can sort out what's making her balk you'll know what to do to help her overcome it.
 
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