What seems right is wrong and what feels wrong is right?

[thisismylife?]

I'm new and hoping for "permission" and clarity of proceeding with the situation we are in with our 29 year old son. I will try to recap the past 8 years as briefly as possible.
Problems began with substance abuse late high school, full blown psychotic episode last year of college. Sent to rehab, left rehab and no contact with my husband and I, contacted because he needed car etc...I think we all know the cycle of no contact/contact when they need something. All together 2 rehabs, 3 psychotic hospitalizations, 1 suicide attempt.
Different diagnosis through all of this but borderline personality disorder, bi-polar, schizophrenia all have been suggested. He has had treatment but does not stay on medication. Has refused treatment and medication for the past several years.
Writes books no one can understand, has no friends left, has strong opinions that he is the great beast...godlike etc...so much more. Lives alone and totally isolated. My husband and I the only people who remain in contact with him. His 2 brothers won't engage except when we have had them all at holidays which are uncomfortable for EVERYONE when he is there. It is very sad because he is a very sick young man who refuses treatment and does not acknowledge how sick he is.
Has always kept employment, great work ethic. Occasionally needs money but mostly self supporting until 2 months ago. Lost his job, began thinking we are in on a scheme to monitor him together with a group and keeps asking when the test will be over.
Have seen therapist, talked to specialists....have been fully financially supporting him. He does nothing all day is my guess but look things up on the internet. My husband has been ready to end all financial support and this is causing big stress to our marriage. I understand this needs to happen if he won't seek help. We told him a few days ago, here is the money for the month, here are places to make an appointment with a psychiatrist, get an appointment, become compliant with their recommendation, and agree we can meet with or talk with the doctor to be sure treatment is being done. Under these circumstances we will continue to help you. If you do not do this the money stops.
His response is "i'm pretty sure you'll still give me money" this is unbelievable. He says medication has not worked for him in the past and therapy is a scam......
So to my point... re: the detachment articles I've read here. It's going to happen, the money will end, the text messages will be great anger and sadness. Seems someone who cannot think rationally, leaving him to fend on his own is harsh but again he's had so many chances for so many years.
Just needing the strength to save my sanity, keep my family, enjoy the many blessings I have instead of living daily with a black cloud over my head. It's been too many years since I have felt free and my husband is at a breaking point with me as well as him it feels. He has wanted to be done with this situation long before now. I have stretched out the contact and support but it hasn't helped anyone and in fact things are worse than they have ever been.
Thank you for listening, yes this as many have said is the hardest most unimaginable circumstance and can't even believe we're getting ready to set him loose to the streets.

 

[newstart]

thisismylife? I have read every word that you wrote and God knows I have lived through most of what you wrote.
My daughter did not do better because she knew I would always be there worrying and giving her everything including my soul. The more I gave the more she took. I too thought she was too ill to be out there on her own. It got to the point I just could not do it anymore. I could not waste my life, time and money like that, it was keeping her stuck and depending on my support.
After deep prayers and years of crying I decided to cut complete contact with her for 3 months. And to my surprise, she found food to eat, shelter to go under. This forced her to grow up at age 28. My mind body and soul simply could not take her abuse any longer and I was starting to lose self respect. Many of these ill people have some common sense. I thought my daughter had NONE. I felt I just tossed her out of the support nest and forced her to fly. Hard as hell to do with all her many mental disorders. After a while it grew her up. Doing that was harder to do than burying my son. Now she is functioning ok, much better than years past. Had I not given her the cut off I am positive she would still be sucking me dry. It was the hardest thing I ever had to do but it was the best thing for her and for me. I wish you all the luck in the world and I pray you have the strength to kick your life sucking child out so he can gain wings and fly. And I pray that he does it soon.

 

[thisismylife?]

thisismylife? I have read every word that you wrote and God knows I have lived through most of what you wrote.
My daughter did not do better because she knew I would always be there worrying and giving her everything including my soul. The more I gave the more she took. I too thought she was too ill to be out there on her own. It got to the point I just could not do it anymore. I could not waste my life, time and money like that, it was keeping her stuck and depending on my support.
After deep prayers and years of crying I decided to cut complete contact with her for 3 months. And to my surprise, she found food to eat, shelter to go under. This forced her to grow up at age 28. My mind body and soul simply could not take her abuse any longer and I was starting to lose self respect. Many of these ill people have some common sense. I thought my daughter had NONE. I felt I just tossed her out of the support nest and forced her to fly. Hard as hell to do with all her many mental disorders. After a while it grew her up. Doing that was harder to do than burying my son. Now she is functioning ok, much better than years past. Had I not given her the cut off I am positive she would still be sucking me dry. It was the hardest thing I ever had to do but it was the best thing for her and for me. I wish you all the luck in the world and I pray you have the strength to kick your life sucking child out so he can gain wings and fly. And I pray that he does it soon.

Thank you so much for your support and for sharing your experience and wisdom. I will hold that dear.....all the best to you

 

[DazedandConfused]

Hey thisismylife? (Great name by the way, I have asked myself this question many times.)

I feel like I do not have any wisdom to offer. I am engaged in a long-term battle with my own son. He still lives with us. He works, but grapples with severe anxiety. He also makes some of the dumbest decisions! Two different decisions that got him fired from two different jobs within a few weeks! With his dad and I, he's mostly an arrogant, narcissistic, gaslighter. I wish he would just move out, but he won't. He says he will put up a legal fight if we try to throw him out. He's considered a tenant according to the laws in my state. In the past year, things have become more complicated due to my husband's health and emotionally I am frazzled and feel somewhat defeated.

Anyway, I wanted to let you know you are not alone!

 

[Tiredof33]

It is so, so, so emotionally draining. My son tells people no one has ever helped him, he's all alone, takes care of himself, no one has ever loved him. At 44 years old he still equates how much money I give him is how much I love him. It's hard for sure!!

 

[mom58]

thisismylife? I have read every word that you wrote and God knows I have lived through most of what you wrote.
My daughter did not do better because she knew I would always be there worrying and giving her everything including my soul. The more I gave the more she took. I too thought she was too ill to be out there on her own. It got to the point I just could not do it anymore. I could not waste my life, time and money like that, it was keeping her stuck and depending on my support.
After deep prayers and years of crying I decided to cut complete contact with her for 3 months. And to my surprise, she found food to eat, shelter to go under. This forced her to grow up at age 28. My mind body and soul simply could not take her abuse any longer and I was starting to lose self respect. Many of these ill people have some common sense. I thought my daughter had NONE. I felt I just tossed her out of the support nest and forced her to fly. Hard as hell to do with all her many mental disorders. After a while it grew her up. Doing that was harder to do than burying my son. Now she is functioning ok, much better than years past. Had I not given her the cut off I am positive she would still be sucking me dry. It was the hardest thing I ever had to do but it was the best thing for her and for me. I wish you all the luck in the world and I pray you have the strength to kick your life sucking child out so he can gain wings and fly. And I pray that he does it soon.

Yes, it is hard to let them go when we tell ourselves maybe they can't do it alone. Not true moms.

 

[Beta]

It is so, so, so emotionally draining. My son tells people no one has ever helped him, he's all alone, takes care of himself, no one has ever loved him. At 44 years old he still equates how much money I give him is how much I love him. It's hard for sure!!

Hey Tired, our son, Josh, 33yo, is living somewhere in Phoenix with nothing. He is adopted and has told us the same things: We don't love him, never cared for him, were never there for him; his life has always been miserable, etc. SO NOT TRUE. Just wanted you to know that other people get the same gaslighting from their child. I'm sorry about the emotional weariness...I'm right there with you.

 

[Beta]

I'm new and hoping for "permission" and clarity of proceeding with the situation we are in with our 29 year old son. I will try to recap the past 8 years as briefly as possible.
Problems began with substance abuse late high school, full blown psychotic episode last year of college. Sent to rehab, left rehab and no contact with my husband and I, contacted because he needed car etc...I think we all know the cycle of no contact/contact when they need something. All together 2 rehabs, 3 psychotic hospitalizations, 1 suicide attempt.
Different diagnosis through all of this but borderline personality disorder, bi-polar, schizophrenia all have been suggested. He has had treatment but does not stay on medication. Has refused treatment and medication for the past several years.
Writes books no one can understand, has no friends left, has strong opinions that he is the great beast...godlike etc...so much more. Lives alone and totally isolated. My husband and I the only people who remain in contact with him. His 2 brothers won't engage except when we have had them all at holidays which are uncomfortable for EVERYONE when he is there. It is very sad because he is a very sick young man who refuses treatment and does not acknowledge how sick he is.
Has always kept employment, great work ethic. Occasionally needs money but mostly self supporting until 2 months ago. Lost his job, began thinking we are in on a scheme to monitor him together with a group and keeps asking when the test will be over.
Have seen therapist, talked to specialists....have been fully financially supporting him. He does nothing all day is my guess but look things up on the internet. My husband has been ready to end all financial support and this is causing big stress to our marriage. I understand this needs to happen if he won't seek help. We told him a few days ago, here is the money for the month, here are places to make an appointment with a psychiatrist, get an appointment, become compliant with their recommendation, and agree we can meet with or talk with the doctor to be sure treatment is being done. Under these circumstances we will continue to help you. If you do not do this the money stops.
His response is "i'm pretty sure you'll still give me money" this is unbelievable. He says medication has not worked for him in the past and therapy is a scam......
So to my point... re: the detachment articles I've read here. It's going to happen, the money will end, the text messages will be great anger and sadness. Seems someone who cannot think rationally, leaving him to fend on his own is harsh but again he's had so many chances for so many years.
Just needing the strength to save my sanity, keep my family, enjoy the many blessings I have instead of living daily with a black cloud over my head. It's been too many years since I have felt free and my husband is at a breaking point with me as well as him it feels. He has wanted to be done with this situation long before now. I have stretched out the contact and support but it hasn't helped anyone and in fact things are worse than they have ever been.
Thank you for listening, yes this as many have said is the hardest most unimaginable circumstance and can't even believe we're getting ready to set him loose to the streets.

Dear Thisismylife?, I'm so sorry for what your going through with your son. We have an adopted, 33yo biracial son who is living in Phoenix (we live in the southeast). We haven't heard from him in weeks. As you are, I'm trying to detach and not allow him to destroy my life, peace, and joy, but it is so hard. When you said you're needing strength to keep your sanity and enjoy your many blessings instead of living with a black cloud over your head--that could have been written by me. Please know I understand, as do everyone else here, how incredibly hard these circumstances are. Who thought that any of us would ever be experiencing these things?

 

[elizabrary]

Hi TIML- I haven't been around in a long time, but I wanted to offer support to you. I kicked my daughter out of my house when she was 19 and had an infant- I had to cut her off. It was incredibly difficult but I used the time to work on myself. What I wanted to tell you is this- my daughter is now working full time for our state legislators and is in law school. If someone had told me at that time that this is where she would be I would not have believed it. I do believe that drawing a line and not enabling her helped her decide to get on her feet on her own. I know it's heartbreaking and so, so stressful but learning to detach is the best thing for these struggling adult kiddos. Sending peace your way.

 

[thisismylife?]

Hi TIML- I haven't been around in a long time, but I wanted to offer support to you. I kicked my daughter out of my house when she was 19 and had an infant- I had to cut her off. It was incredibly difficult but I used the time to work on myself. What I wanted to tell you is this- my daughter is now working full time for our state legislators and is in law school. If someone had told me at that time that this is where she would be I would not have believed it. I do believe that drawing a line and not enabling her helped her decide to get on her feet on her own. I know it's heartbreaking and so, so stressful but learning to detach is the best thing for these struggling adult kiddos. Sending peace your way.

Wow. I really needed this today. Thank you!!!

 

[thisismylife?]

Wow. I really needed this today. Thank you!!!

 

[thisismylife?]

Dear Thisismylife?, I'm so sorry for what you’re going through with your son. We have an adopted, 33yo biracial son who is living in Phoenix (we live in the southeast). We haven't heard from him in weeks. As you are, I'm trying to detach and not allow him to destroy my life, peace, and joy, but it is so hard. When you said you're needing strength to keep your sanity and enjoy your many blessings instead of living with a black cloud over your head--that could have been written by me. Please know I understand, as do everyone else here, how incredibly hard these circumstances are. Who thought that any of us would ever be experiencing these things?

Thank you, wishing the best to you!

 

[thisismylife?]

Thank you, wishing the best to you!

 

[Copabanana]

We told him a few days ago, here is the money for the month, here are places to make an appointment with a psychiatrist, get an appointment, become compliant with their recommendation,

This has never, ever worked for us. I tried for 10 years. I could not learn. My son is 34, psychotic, and homeless living in a metropolitan area. I can only bear very brief contact with him. He has not worked for many years. He believes people are following him, filming him, etc. He has gotten into physical altercations a couple of times including twice where he was attacked with a knife. It is a miracle I don't collapse just typing that.

The only way I can talk to my son is to tell him he needs treatment. There is nothing else to say. I am direct with him. I tell him this is not how we live and he deserves to live better. I speak from my heart, of the pain. I do not force myself to do anything anymore than I can bear that gives me pain. And yet my heart is broken. Especially today. He left my town. I could not, would not see him. It breaks my heart.

My son feels he is safe. (He sleeps in bushes at a college, most of the time.) He feels he is making safe choices. He is at least considering treatment. I tell him I love him and he tells me he loves me. I am beyond grateful for that.

I have to have hope. I cannot live without hope.

But the other stuff, the financial support, the conditions, involving myself in his life, in choices that were only his to make, what mistakes. I agree with your husband. It's enough.

There was a mother on this site who joined the year I did. Her son is paranoid schizophrenic. Her name is FeelingSad. She came when she was forced to get a restraining order against her son for 5 years because she feared he would kill her. As far as I know, she has not seen or spoken to her son since that time--it would be over 8 years now. Her heart broke. As far as she knows her son is okay. These guys get by. As the years went by she made a life where she could thrive. Then she feared her middle son was becoming paranoid schizophrenic. How much pain can we bear?

Never in a million years would I believe that our situation would deteriorate this way, but it has.

Your life, your marriage, and your family over and above and apart from your ill son have intrinsic and equal value. Sacrificing these things does not help. I think it makes it harder for our ill children when we sacrifice ourselves. I think it's harder on them when the boundaries are blurry. I think it is harder on them when they are not held responsible for themselves. It infantilizes them.

Your son has great attributes. To be a stellar worker with a great work ethic is a huge deal. To have been self-supporting, wonderful. Your son sounds smart and capable. He needs to face himself and his life. Where he has to deal with the consequences of his choices, even greatly impaired ones. There is a plethora of support if he were to be open to it, one day. If he is sheltered, he won't ever have the need to open to the support he needs. I believe he can do this. Many, many people do. Trust him. Trust hope. I am. If I can do it, you can too.

 

[thisismylife?]

That is the best advice I've been able to understand. Yes, the yoyo "rules" would send a blurry message. Thats a new angle to consider and it really makes a lot of sense. Thank you so much and many prayers to you.

 

[Copabanana]

the yoyo "rules" would send a blurry message.

It's not that.

Let me say what I mean. Your center of gravity now is in him. How he will change. Could change. What message he will get? If this or that will motivate or affect him. That never works.

Persisting with the idea that there is something YOU can do vs HE has to do is the problem. This is the thing that blurs the message. It's even worse than this. It gives HIM power and control over YOU. Because he knows he can manipulate you because YOU care so much. This gives him leverage over you. (And it's crazy-making. Just as bad or worse, this disincentivizes him to DO FOR HIMSELF. (How do I know this? I've lived it. )

Let me repeat: worrying about how or what you should do to have influence over him, teaches him that he can manipulate you. It teaches him how to manipulate you. The message he gets is he survives and prospers by manipulating YOU.

But there's more. Worst of all, you give up yourself. And the result in my experience is horrific. Your well-being becomes contingent on his well-being. The reality is that YOU have not one whit of control over him. The worst of it is that you risk effectively abandoning yourself.

The messages HE needs to get are from his own brain that HE is not living well. He not you, needs to care, that he is not living well. And he needs to act on this caring.

Messages from your brain need to be that you are not living well, by focusing on him as a source of your own well-being. You can shift that. This is your only potential for influence and control. That you live for you, based upon your own well-being.

 

[Deni D]

This is my life ~ I can only speak to my experiences with my son.

Has always kept employment, great work ethic. Occasionally needs money but mostly self supporting until 2 months ago. Lost his job, began thinking we are in on a scheme to monitor him together with a group and keeps asking when the test will be over.

My son has bipolar disorder (inherited) with schizoaffective tendencies(I think from substance abuse). He told me when he was psychotic he still has some connection to reality. He knew he was thinking wrong. I tell you this because during the worst of it with my son I questioned whether he had any ability to deal with reality. I often thought there was just no way to turn, I couldn't help him, he couldn't help himself. I'm hoping in the back of your son's mind there is something that will bring him forward to get help for himself. He did work, even with all of his troubles, until April of this year. This is pretty big, because there is a place for him feel a loss in his life and hopefully want to work himself back into that better life.

He says medication has not worked for him in the past and therapy is a scam......

My son said the same at the time he went years without taking medication. And now he refers to incidents back when he wasn't taking medication as a mistake because he wasn't taking medication.

So to my point... re: the detachment articles I've read here. It's going to happen, the money will end, the text messages will be great anger and sadness. Seems someone who cannot think rationally, leaving him to fend on his own is harsh but again he's had so many chances for so many years.

Detachment is such a weird and difficult thing. And really in my case it doesn't end, I still can get sucked into doing and being too much at times but considering my son's situation now detaching is easier. It's not the forcing yourself to cut off the money flow in desperate hope that he will turn around. It's also not the forcing yourself to detach emotionally with the hope that will change him. For a long time my thoughts were "I'll detach and he will get better. Hope this works, I'll try it because nothing else has".
As Copa said

Your center of gravity now is in him. How he will change. Could change. What message he will get? If this or that will motivate or affect him. That never works.

My center of gravity was still my son.

Maybe in the long run it was good thing I started and stayed in the mode of working on detaching with the idea of changing my son. I might not have kept going back to it so many times if I didn't have that motivation. I can't really say, but I do know now that detaching is really for us. Figuring out where we end and where our loved one's begin in situations. Keeping ourselves from going down that rabbit hole we have no control of, bit by bit.

One thing I can think of that I know helped me was I was able to get the idea in situations with other people first. During the worst times I would distract myself by getting into other people's business too much. I would become too emotionally invested in problems other people had and also helped people too much when I should have stood back. So when I recognized this in myself I practiced detaching in those situations. They were much easier to understand and do than in dealing with my son. It was easier to work through what I should be doing, or not, both emotionally and physically. I would step back and think to myself am I getting too invested here? Am I taking on the emotions of this person too much? Am I going to be doing too much here? With these thoughts I had to remind myself that:
~ people are not all little birds with broken wings that have to be rescued by me or they won't make it.
~ I'm not the end all and be all, I'm not in charge of fixing everything.
~ It's insulting someone if I take on too much of their business and treat them like they can't do for themselves or handle an emotional situation themself.
This thought process helped me figure out what's okay to do and what was too much in less dramatic/traumatic situations than the one's our adult children have brought us into.

With my son I had to define boundaries that were measurable before I could get anywhere with detaching. This included what I would provide financially for him. Examples are ~ doctor's out of pocket expenses, therapy expenses, uber rides to and from certain places. Also what I was going to put up with emotionally from him like ~ swearing at me, I would hang up the phone, do it again within the same week, hang up and not answer calls for a week, keep it up and calls are not answered for longer.

Please don't see this as setting him loose, just shifting gears.

 

[Fairy dust]

So beautifully said Deni. Thank you! i thank all of the people on this forum for sharing, understanding and all without judgement. We are all beautiful souls just trying to make our journey. I think healing begins when we respect ourselves first and foremost. Sometimes I imagine myself as a 5 year old girl. Would. I let anyone treat her the way our son treated us? No. Putting ourselves back at the centre of gravity is what is needed in my view. Sometimes we can love to much. That love needs to be redirected towards ourselves! Hugs to all!

 

[Copabanana]

because there is a place for him feel a loss in his life and hopefully want to work himself back into that better life.

Thank you for this, Deni. My son is in a mess right now and wanting to pull me into it. He said, I don't have any friends anymore.
I react badly, and say, "that's because x, y and z."

Thank you for reminding medication this. That a place to feel a loss, is a good thing.

 

[Nomad]

I really like this verbage "shifting gears." We had to change our thinking and define boundaries with our daughter and once we did, it brought much relief. My center of gravity was her as well. But, when something happened that opened my eyes, that changed. It was difficult and painful, but necessary. I have much angst about all the time lost. But, I thought I was doing the very best and that somehow , that was what I was suppose to do AND that doing my very best would make a positive difference. Hmmm. Well, not really. Not much at all. The ball is in her court. I've very significantly detached. And am moving forward. I hope for the best, but understand this is VERY (understatement here) likely going to be a very bumpy rough road...for her. Life moves on and life is good. Don't get me wrong, I'm not happy about much of this. I pray a lot these days. I finally get it when folks say "let go and let God." I have significantly more peace. We all need and deserve this.