Hey, Cedar, or anyone interested in FOO (Family of Origin) issues. Cedar, WHY NOW???

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
Well...and maybe one day you'll see this too...it turned out for the best.

Nope. It turned out for the worst. We turned out for the better. Against all odds and in defiance of every obstacle they could throw against us.


Would you have found it better if your FOO had not been there to influence your kids?

Oh, so much better. Remember what my mother said when our daughter was placed in that first facility: "Well," (Sneering contemptuous voice here like you could never imagine. Worse than James Cagney.) "looks like you weren't such a good mother after all, were you?"

And that echoed and set me off on that quest that would never end until I had been here on the site long enough to get it that I did not do this. My therapists, even that first one, would look at me funny too, when I would say that about urgency in finding what it was that I had done to my children.

That's the thing, SWOT and Copa. We believe every word out of their mouths.

I don't know if I'm nicer than they are. We all know how to stick it to one another and we have. But I do feel, in a humble way, that I have given more to people to make their lives better than the rest of my FOO. And I value this about me.

See? I can actually see the value of myself when they are not anywhere in my world.

I really try hard to help people and animals too. I really like this giving quality I have that even my first husband, who used to criticize me a lot, could see and talked about. But FOO could not see.

Good. About sticking it to them. Once I am out of my shallow grave to the tune of Rocky, I will stand up to my family and be incredibly mean to them, watch and see. You stood right up to them.

Yay.

You are kind here, SWOT. Unfailingly kind. This is like the name your sister was so determined to name you that has to do with a psychiatric diagnosis ~ to that you were so determined to believe must be true because they told you so. I did not believe that naming. You know I did not because I posted that to you.

I was right, SWOT.

I am right now, about the kindness in your heart.

You just believe them more than me.

"You adopted those kids for the money."
Good old E.

My mom would so say this.

This was before we adopted Snoic, the only one who had a subsidy and we didn't adopt him for that reason.

You love Sonic true. You are proud of him for who he is. It is an eerie strange thing that our lying FOO spoke as they did in the first place. Worse than that is that we believed them then and cannot unhear their stupid, lying truths in our heads, now. Not yet.

But we will.

These things that E. had said to me is why a multitude of therapists have told me she was abusive.

She was so cruel, SWOT.

Cruelly, intentionally, toxically abusive.

"I'm not going to send you to a psychiatrist. Mrs. R. sent D. to one and the psychiatrist blamed HER for her daughter's problems. I'm not sending you there just so you can hear how I caused your problems."

Or to let anyone else hear.

Or to take the smallest risk that you would ever get away from her.

Cedar

I really do have to go now. Good work today, everyone.

Woot!
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
Good Morning, Eveybody

:O)

I was thinking about self esteem this morning, and about what it feels like to tear through old trauma. It doesn't feel very good. As I review where we've been, as I begin to distance myself from the traumatic aspects of things, I want to do that in a healthy way.

So, I will list those things here for us too. Please do the same, for me.

TED talks has 20 minute discussion on anything imaginable. Brene Brown is there, anyone you can think of is there. Free information on anything, anything at all, for all of us. As regards our healing in this time, if you google the word and TED talks and youtube, there will be a number of twenty minute presentations on whatever it is that is the question at hand.


This is a 20 minute TED talk about determining what we want, and making that real.

I had a URL here but it wasn't working. I will recover it correct;y and post it below.

This is the best book I have read on changing the toxicity in the ways we see ourselves.

SeIf Esteem, by McKay/Fanning


(Curious is it not, that I struggled so against permitting my son to do the same. Looking at that will be the stuff of another post---

Would you like to do that this morning, Copa?

How does this statement intersect with the way your son is behaving toward you? He is not calling, is throwing a temper tantrum. How are you interpreting his behavior Copa, and how are you managing your emotions through this time?

What is your understanding of what is happening between yourself and your son? Do you think he is establishing independence as you did too when you were young?

How do you feel Copa about the way he is treating you?

Cedar
 
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BusynMember

Well-Known Member
She was so cruel, SWOT.

Cruelly, intentionally, toxically abusive.
First of all, I'm so sorry your mother was such a mean person regarding you and your daughter when that happened. Nothing is worse than hearing that crapola when you already so distraught and in a normal family with normal people (whatever normal is) you wouldn't have heard that. People would have come to you and your daughter with love. Honestly, I'm sooooooooo glad my "family" had not been around for any mishaps with my children as I love them even if they were not perfect people all the time. How horrible of your mother. Just...ugh.

There is a lot I kept from everybody except my real sister (my dear deceased friend, the angel).

Your mother and mine were deliberately cruel to us and invalidated all that we did because they wanted to keep us feeling badly about ourselves.Either that or they were so out-of-it regarding who we were that they actually talked themselves into believing it.

If you adopt a child with special needs and get a subsidy, you do not get the bills paid. You get what it costs to cover the expenses of raising the child, and really a lot less. I don't have to explain it to you. You know. I adopted kids for a couple of interesting reasons. One is that I did not want to duplicate my DNA again, looking at my entire family (not just me). I was afraid. Bart got the least of it, maybe because he was so distanced from FOO. My grandson does not appear to have much of this lethal DNA. Another reason I wanted to adopt is that I wanted a large family. I knew THEY would be my family, not FOO. Another was I care deeply about the very poor a nd deprived and wanted to give love and a home to a child who maybe needed it. That was a huge factor in not adopting white children, as t hey get homes more easily. I have no doubt that my invalidation in childhood lead to my desire to be a helper. I have b een this way all my life, wanting to help those who are down and out. Anyone who really knows me, knows this about me.

If E. knew me at all, she'd know I was not the one who cared about money. I still don't care. Never have. Never will. I'm the one who shops with delight at garage sales for myself and thrift shops and drives old cars so that we don't have to make car payments.

Cedar, they were our wombs, but they never knew us. E. talked about me in the way of when I was nine years old until we no longer had any honest contact, which was somewhere in my 30s. We spoke after that but not in any meaningful way (I wonder if anything I ever told E. was meaningful or believed).

My therapists caught on early when I explained my home life as a child always adding, "But I deserved it because I was such a bad kid." That is almost a giveaway that somebody has been abused and brainwashed. They blame the little kid who had no power. They excuse the abuser. Worse, often they worship their abuser and look for her love.

I looked for her love for too long. What a waste of time that I can't get back...lol.

I am being told, with the newer research on Borderline (BPD), that Borderline (BPD) and post traumatic stress disorder are pretty much related so if they say I have Borderline (BPD), they are admitting I had abuse too ;)

Work today. Have a good one :) Turn off those tapes and stay calm. You know yourself. They don't.
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
Your mother and mine were deliberately cruel to us and invalidated all that we did

This is so important a piece to know, for us to be able to create and claim the change in mindset and outlook we are working for, here. We have been finding the cruel or invalidating internal messages taken on faith; we have examined and are countering, and then, finding them invalid and extinguishing them. Please do watch the TED talk. It is about making change within happen. It is about the rare miracle it is to have been born, to be who we are. It is about acting on that good impulse and creating change and how to do that. The speaker has a book: Stop Saying You're Fine.

If you adopt a child with special needs and get a subsidy, you do not get the bills paid.

Your mom hurt you at the core of you as you were formed. That core, for you I think SWOT, is composed of kindness and of determination to speak up, to make change, to do something about the sad things, or the stupidly bad things, in the world. This core self is where your mother and your sister too, did their nefarious work. You are stronger, finer, better balanced, more sensitive and human and humane than they are, SWOT. That is why they tried to break, or to cheapen or discolor your interpretations of your essential self: to make it impossible for you to believe in yourself strongly enough to believe you could create the change in the world you see in your mind's eye, and in your heart.

I think it was very special, what you did, SWOT. Most people only want to adopt the dream child, the perfect child.

The way I see it is that you could pay someone a million dollars every year, and it would never be enough to keep them committed to a special needs or even, to a racially and culturally different child unless that is who you already are in your heart. That is who you are inside, SWOT. There is no good or bad about it. At some level, this is what you would always have done with your life. This is how you would make a difference in the world. That is how committed you are to changing the badness that is. It wasn't a dream, it wasn't pretentious; it had nothing to do with money.

There is no amount of money that can buy what a mother does.

If you were in it for the money, you would have started a chain of day care centers. You would have been able to take care of special needs or differing ethnicity children and made a fortune and changed lives. But what you wanted to be was something even more special than that. You wanted to give children something you never had.

Their own mother.

And I think, from the way you talk about Sonic and Jumper and Bart and Gone Boy, that you really did well, SWOT. These were not your flesh and blood. (Bart was.) But you made a mother for them, and you gave them that incredible thing and you changed the world.

You are like the Kennedy's in that way, SWOT.

Had you been well-mothered enough to believe in yourself heart and soul, there is no telling what you may have accomplished, for yourself, and for the world. Even carrying the burdens you carried, you did change the world, for those children you adopted and cherished and made strong.

***

Copa, you too. Your mother loving you, or at least, your mother allowing you to love her, destroyed your resistance, took away your strength.

You began to doubt yourself; you began to doubt and regret the right paths you had been so determined to walk.

I think it would help you to look at it that way, just for the sake of exploration, Copa.

Did your mother love you at the end of her life, or was she so weakened that she allowed, or you claimed, the right to love her?

Don't let her do it to you, Copa. Don't let the sister, weak mother reflector that she is if she is not a loyal sister, determine who you are, either. Stand up, Copa.

Pronounce your own name.

Donate the freaking comforter. Go away from this life for awhile. Go with M or without him, but go.

When you return, everything will be clear, so clear to you, Copa.

You have done so many things that were more impossible than this thing your body and brain and spirit are telling you to do now. Do not just let go and pretend you did not need what you needed, Copa. Do not convince yourself it was enough that you loved, or that you did not merit being loved. See it. Taste what they did to you. Declare your own name, Copa.

I already know that finer Copa. I see her in your posts. That is who you are. We all have to fight for it, Copa. You and me and everyone, even if they've been perfectly mothered.

We all have to fight for it, Copa.

You have what you need.

You always had it, or you would be the sister who chose to follow exactly the path the mother set up. And you would be the sister now, so blindly determined, as my sister is, and as SWOT's sister is, to see those same destructive patterns continued.

I can see your name, Copa.

I cannot hear my own.

But I am getting the idea now of how to declare my own name, too. And it is a very different name than those people I trusted to define me gave me.

It's simple in one way and a complexity of toxicity in another. What I need to do this, what I need to learn and define and pronounce my own name, is to see and believe, with unshakable faith, that they lie. Everything I think I know about how things work, about how to respond to the challenges that come to each of us, everything they taught me about how to do that is a lie.

So I will be naked. I will look really stupid. I will feel wrong and at risk and I will crave safety and certainty.

So what.

I crave all kinds of things that are not what I need to do this.

So that's what I know this morning. Like abuse in the first place, and like the predators who are drawn to our vulnerabilities and who try to convince us to fear or admire or give ourselves over to their higher wisdom or their higher anything else, there is nothing personal to us, or even to them, in what they did to us then or what their stand-ins, those predators we continually invite into our lives, do to us, now.

And we need to be certain not to pass who we believed we were when they lied to us ~ we will not pass that on, to our children.

We are way more than enough or our predators would not be drawn to us, today. Whatever it is in the heart of us, that strength that is ours, that is simply who and how we are, is what they want subverted to them. They do want to possess us. They want us enthralled to them, they want us validating that they are whatever more than us it is that they need.

Let them want whatever they want.

Just don't believe them. We have established, beyond doubt, that they lie.

No trust without mutual respect. No love, without trust.

End of story.

The predators in our lives cannot give us what we needed, then. Those times are over. It is what it is and that cannot be changed. We are essentially alone in the world. Alone is safer, is the better choice. Until we are healed enough to demand healthy people, healthy and healing and integrity-based relationship, we will be alone.

No trust without respect; no love without trust.

That is the essence of what we are teaching our kids too, now that we have the words, or now that we borrowed the words from those here on the site who were stronger than we were.

So we're good, then.

The similarities in our stories, the seeming dependency of our sisters and their determined, blind lust to see us destroyed. How could we all have that really rotten dynamic at the core of our female relationships to family?

Our mothers, each equally determined that her child will not ever see or think or act for herself. Our mothers, so determined to change the realities of what we have gone on to create of our lives that they will lie to us about who we are to our faces to this day and will unite with our own sisters, with those very people who should be sources of strength and intelligence and identity through all our lives and into our deaths, each mother and each sister, uniting to deceive us about who we are.

I have read your posts about your mothers and your sisters, about the gears and wheels and the mechanisms creaking away at the hearts of your families of origin and in them, saw the truth of my own.

So that's what I have to say about that, this morning.

It sickens me a little to see just how similar all of our mothers and sisters were and are. I woke up a little sickened by it, by the loss of it for me. It was more fun to believe everything was okay. I am believing this is an adjustment phase, too. It must be that I took pleasure from thinking about my family of origin, and from believing in that dinner we all would have. It makes sense that I would; that it would soothe the hurts and soften those KFCD repeating tapes when I do that.

D H asked what was learned on the site yesterday. It seemed so ugly to me that I did not want to sully the air with my words about them, and about what I learned about them. I don't feel that same emotional punch in the gut I generally feel when I write or think or say "mother" or "sister". I miss that. Now? I feel nothing. Sad, with little tears prickling at the corners of my eyes that I ignore. So there is proof positive that negative, hurtful connection is at least connection. I've read that we will die, without connection.

I will have to be very careful now not to glom on to my children or grands for connection. I have to remember it is my task to love them, but that it is not their task to love me, except as that loving makes them stronger human children and human adults.

My task is to love them, not to look for love from them. I will not tell them any of what we do here. I will be looking to teach them about establishing strength and connection within themselves, not through my words but through who I become as I develop strength and willingness to look foolish, and to be naked and vulnerable to the moment I am in and to be okay with that.

That is present. That is what present and real feel like.

Vulnerable and open and flexible and flexibly certain.

I will have to remember that.

Either that or they were so out-of-it regarding who we were that they actually talked themselves into believing it.

I think that is a piece of it, SWOT. At some level they did believe it; at other levels they did not. Mostly, they seldom saw us or themselves, at all. Everyone living in their heads, listening to all those same boring, repetitive negative tapes instead of being present to the wonder, to the unpredictability that is really living, really checking in and staying present, to the wonder of our own lives, to the undeniable fact that we are alive and that time is short.

So I guess that for me this morning, the question is how to eradicate the tapes. And what to replace them with. And how to keep going right on in the scary face of unpredictability. That is why we kept the tapes. We believe our mothers to this day. A bad map, one sure to direct us to the island where the muses sing and entrance us onto the rocks, is at least a map; is better than no map, at all.

So we are going to have to let go of everything we think we know.

The tapes are so stupidly wrong. There is no benefit in them, and such a waste of the time we are given here in this one lifetime, to listen to them, to consider those tapes, at all. Yet, they are there, sneaking and taping away under all things.

So, here is the other lesson in the Monty Python Grail piece. The French responders 1) Did not acknowledge the authority of the king. "You silly king." The way the king's call was answered ~ not with fear or respect, but with those voices that were slightly irritated at having been disturbed, or curious maybe, about who was making that noise in the morning. 2) They had their own. When the king presents his offer of: You give all of us free dinner and lodging for the night in exchange for disrupting and then, risking your lives on a Grail quest for something you already have. The Frenchman's answer is: "We've already got one." When asked whether they have actually seen it or whether this is a trick, the response is: "Oh, yes. It's very nice."

And then they laugh together, the Frenchmen, at their response to the king.

That is what family should look like.

Unshakable validation of what is real about us.

And that is why the determination to prevent the creation of family, in our families of origin.

Then, the Frenchmen repeats what he's told the king to representations of himself, and they laugh and find strength in laughing, at the king because whether they actually "have one" or not has nothing to do with this king or his quest or his authority from God.

Yet, like our sisters, the king refuses to accept our reality. He attacks the castle, instead. And again, the French refuse to accept the king's interpretation of the seriousness of his quest. Cows and chickens and everything they can think of ~ including night slops ~ rain down on the king.

And he retreats in the face of their ridicule and their certainty.

Because the way into the castle is a slippery and exposed set of stairs.

Unless the king and his cohorts had been welcomed, as we have welcomed our FOO to validate our realities instead of their own, there is no way into the castle.

***

Feeling badly, as I am this morning that the king and my sister hold no further threat because "We already got one." is like entering an echoing chamber.

That will fill with self, now.

It is only lonely now because it is freshly cleared.

There is fresh air, and the sea.

It is a sunny day.

So the thing is to keep going. The tapes have been exposed and the KFCD signal, weakened. Here is an unusual correspondence between internal and external life: I am finding it almost impossible to listen to radio or television except for things that matter. I am conscious of television as a waste, as a distraction from savoring, from being present.

Good.

I had not understood why that was happening.

Imagery: Reaching up, pulling myself up, seeing the stars and hearing the Rocky theme and recognizing myself, just as it happened in the poem. It is again that feeling of determined alone-ness. Of doing my best and not knowing the outcome, at all. I like it though. Perhaps that is the absence of KFCD.

I don't have to explain it to you. You know. I adopted kids for a couple of interesting reasons. One is that I did not want to duplicate my DNA again, looking at my entire family (not just me). I was afraid. Bart got the least of it, maybe because he was so distanced from FOO. My grandson does not appear to have much of this lethal DNA. Another reason I wanted to adopt is that I wanted a large family. I knew THEY would be my family, not FOO. Another was I care deeply about the very poor a nd deprived and wanted to give love and a home to a child who maybe needed it. That was a huge factor in not adopting white children, as t hey get homes more easily.

If I did not have you and Copa to explain myself to, I would never have come through this as I have. Explain away, SWOT. That is where we heal. You know that the discrepancies between what is real and what you were taught about your own realities exist. Find and eradicate them and you will declare your own truth for the first time.

As for your DNA. I think the world would be so much less kind a place without your particular DNA. You are here with all of us, willing to try, willing to offer support for the quest, willing to figure out what it is to be human and how to do that. Just as we have found is the case in my family of origin, the reasons for the ways we were hurt are invalid. That is why I kept trying to see what the win was, for them to do what they seemed to be doing. What I am figuring out is that why they did it is just why they did it. It is my job to see and judge the truth in their conclusions about me, to judge the truth in what they told me mattered about me.

There is not much truth there at all, SWOT. There is not strength for me in believing what they are so sure that they know.

There is so little of value, and so much that is deeply toxic in how they insist we see ourselves. What benefit could there be to us in seeing ourselves through the eyes of those determined to have us believe we are less than we are?

We need, and we need to require, that our interactions validate that we are more, not less, than we are.

We can meet that challenge; we must see to it that we do not live down to their expectations. There is no benefit in it that I have been able to find. There has been no wisdom, no learning or unusual way to determine what is real from reviewing the nature of interaction in my FOO.

I needed to know that.

Like the French say in Monty's Grail quest: "We already got one." And, "Yes, it is very nice." And then, to throw whatever they've got at the silly king. Not like a war with something you are afraid of, where your sword must be sharp and vigilance eternal. Just, "Oh, go away, you silly king." So, whatever I have when they come, if they come, when they call, if they call ~ whatever I have will be enough and more than enough and if they keep trying?

That is when you pull out and pour out, the night slops.

And then they will go away.

The trick is not to miss them when they are gone. Celebrate the empty.

Cedar
 

InsaneCdn

Well-Known Member
Had you been well-mothered enough to believe in yourself heart and soul, there is no telling what you may have accomplished, for yourself, and for the world
Or not. Sometimes, I believe that the only way I could end up having the strength and tenacity and other attributes that have carried my little family through these tough years was... to come out of a really tough situation to start with. The difference between us, and the previous generation(s), is that we have chosen to build differently on our past than they built on theirs.
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
I looked for her love for too long. What a waste of time that I can't get back...lol.

This is so good for me to think, too. But it really is a waste of time. What new thing might we have created with the energy we have put into trying to understand what happened. You are so right in saying it is over and there is nothing there for Now, or for future.

"What a waste of time that I can't get back."

We spoke after that but not in any meaningful way (I wonder if anything I ever told E. was meaningful or believed).

Or whether anything she told you was.

"But I deserved it because I was such a bad kid."

That is how you described yourself here on the site too. I do the same. Copa...I don't know; I think these are not life patterns for Copa until her mother cam back into her life. The thing to take away from what we know now about our childhoods and our lives to this minute is that, had each of us been raised to believe there are challenges for everyone and these particular challenges are the ones we have, we would have been better prepared to believe in ourselves, whatever those challenges that are our challenges might be. But I think that instead of learning what our real challenges were, we learned it was more important, that it was vitally important somehow, to address, to listen and devote time and attention to, our mothers instead of ourselves.

That is the difference, maybe. That is what I mean when I say we must refuse to see ourselves through our abusers' eyes. They are everywhere in our psyches.

Those places where we pay intense attention were never where we needed to be devoting our attention.

Those things we believe, and have always somehow believed about ourselves were lies, too.

I was thinking about the feelings surrounding that fight my mother forced onto my brother and I that day when I wore those red shoes. The feelings were so clumsy and so shaming and so ugly, SWOT and Copa.

Such ugly feelings that we all just muddled our way through somehow. They had taken that sunny day from us, too. But there they still were, when I uncovered them yesterday.

So, this morning, I remembered two other things that apply here in the sense of how we attend events in our lives, today. In the sense of what seems important, and of where we spend our time and attention, and of why we are even working so intensely right now.

It's like our abilities to discriminate what is important in life are twisted a little. We pay attention to the wrong things, for the wrong reasons. That is a
piece I think, of why we can be retraumatized now by things that cannot be undone. Hyper-awareness to those signals that are similar to the signals that our mothers were on the path; that our mothers (the Red Queen in the Alice in Wonderland stories) were on their ways. There was no escaping our mothers. Being made to fight with my brother in a fight no one could win ~ or my brother would surely have won it ~ that too is the flavor of my mother. And that is the taste of swollen and ugly and not strong and "Just don't think, Cedar."

The first incident circles around that birthday party when I was eight. That hyper-awareness to risk, to the power the mother would hold to name publicly; to shame publicly, destroying even the independence and the good joy to be found in friendship, or in completing an assignment in school, or to any good thing I could attempt when she had no knowledge and no power because others were protecting me from her, and from what I knew of myself. That is the flavor of not risking, to this day; of living down and not up, in our potential.

That feeling of that birthday party. That feeling of not wanting anyone to know how it was, between myself and my mother. That feeling is the shame I carried for her. That is part of the burden I posted about yesterday.

That feeling.

The second incident has to do with going away to camp. There were friends going. I was able to go, too. This was a goodness, a kindness on my mother's part as was the birthday party. And the same dynamic applied. So, I was walking with the friend I was going to camp with. And all at once, I heard my mother screaming my name. And I ran so fast toward my mother's voice that the friend called out, "What? Where are you going? Wait up." Or similar things. The point here is the one I was making about what and how, as adults, we have taught ourselves needs attending to.

I got home, and my mother was enraged about preparation for camp. She should not be the one packing clothing and etc when I was the one going to camp.

This also happened when I was eight or nine. The friend is the one I post about, with the so beautifully perfect mother who brought me to the beach that day.

I have grown up, and this may be true for you too, with a sense of hyper-awareness for the bad things; I pay entire attention to the bad signals. In a way, I am still listening, as I did when I was eight or when I was nine, for the signals that tell me my life is not my own and that what needs to be paid attention to is my mother, and not me.

Or my husband, and not me.

Or my children's troubles, and not my child.

This kind of thinking ties in to the TED piece I posted. It has to do with how we justify that we are fine, that we have tended to what was crucially important, even if we have had to let go of ourselves, of our true purposes.

It has to do with small thinking; it has to do with living down to someone else's potential for us instead of claiming the right to live up to our own.

Cedar
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Had you been well-mothered enough to believe in yourself heart and soul, there is no telling what you may have accomplished, for yourself, and for the world. Even carrying the burdens you carried, you did change the world, for those children you adopted and cherished and made strong.
Thank your for your k ind words, Cedar. I really felt enraged when E. said that to me. I may have yelled at her "THAT's NOT TRUE!" And she would have mocked, "Oh, suuuuuuuuuuure, it's not." (She mocked me all the time). And when I fought back, I got called abusive by those who didn't get it and didn't hear the exchange. I really appreciate that you get it. I did want to leave a legacy for myself t hat I tried to do good in the world for children and animals.

I am not convinced I would have been interested, at least to this extent, in helping others if my FOO had been more "normal" (whatever that is). I know it came strictly from my need to give other children what I did not have. I remember thinking just that. So maybe it made me a better, more caring person in many ways. E. was cruel to me and did not deserve me to love her as much as I did, even if I yelled back at her sometimes.

But the kids deserved a loving mother and I could do that. And I have been blessed tenfold by these kids God entrusted into my care. It is more my blessing than theirs, in my opinion. Now I am stuck on trying to help save animals. I don't think I'd care about either as much if E. would have been at least "semi-average" to me, like she was to them. They certainly do not have the heart of giving in them, not on a permanent basis.
This kind of thinking ties in to the TED piece I posted. It has to do with how we justify that we are fine, that we have tended to what was crucially important, even if we have had to let go of ourselves, of our true purposes.
I listened to the second tape, Cedar. But it seems as if she wants us to reach for the stars and set high goals. I've never wanted or craved that. I just want peace, love and all that old hippie junk, only I REALLY want it for me and my loved ones. So in a way the tape was a disconnect for me, but in a way I could relate. And I do appreciate the share.

Cedar, yesterday was an example of a dream evening for me. It was Jumper's birthday. We got Sonic. We barbecued and laughed and talked while we did (music in the background). We came in and ate, making jokes, laughing and all just 100% getting along. Nobody said a cross word because...well...we work well as a family unit. Afterward, we drove Sonic home and I went to Walmart with Jumper and we talked a little more.

That's the kind of life I love. No drama. Quiet. Love. Peace. Money can't buy that. I never cared about money.

Somebody close to me made her husband sell their very nice home to build a bigger house in a better neighborhood and they could not afford it. The wife made her husband ask her wealthy father-in-law to fund the part of the mortgage that they could not pay and he agreed. Her threat was she'd divorce him if she did not get her dream house. It was beautiful. I saw it. I thought she was paying for it with their salary. It never would have crossed my mind to live somewhere I couldn't pay for so it never crossed my mind that THEY were doing it either. When the two of them split anyway, which was bound to happen considering this kind of demand and I'm sure many others that were based on money that was not there, it sold for way under market value.

I feel sorry for anybody who would care so much about "looking rich" that they would do this. I find it sad.

I am so glad that it takes so little to make me happy.

Does it amaze you, as much as it does me, the extent some people will go through to make others think they are well off or to have "nice things?"

Such silly, silly people.
 
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Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I walk my own walk, as do you. Afraid, vulnerable, damaged...almost always I walked, or hobbled or stumbled on my own.
I have tried always to go forward in my life. I went so far as to make myself the central figure in my own hero narrative, with a twist. I was the broken and vulnerable hero, and always, I had an inner confidence.

My son has this same confidence. And the same sense of being broken and vulnerable. But so far he has not shown the need or the desire to triumph.

The question, is why did I need to me to keep such control and power in my son's life, even though I had a great deal of independence and autonomy in my own life since an early age?

Lack of confidence in him?
Lack of confidence in myself?
The lives of one or both of my parents?
My experience as independent?
Wanting to compensate for what I had lacked from one or another parent through my son?
Using my son to meet my own needs, of one thing or another?

All of these are possible. And I will pay attention to each of them, at some point.

I could not leave fast enough for my mother. That I am aware of she suffered not at all from an empty nest. To her children were responsibilities and burdens that she could well do without. No kids in the house to her meant more for her.

My father remarried when I was about 11 and soon after he dropped out of site to avoid child support. I did not see him or speak to him for about 5 years. He had a new wife and a new child, my half brother and lived in another state.

My father was a fantasy that I longed for because my life with my mother and especially my stepfather was so difficult.

My father resurfaced when I was 16 and I saw the reality. He was a dissolute, morally compromised and sadistic man.

It took me another decade at least to finally accept the full extent of his limitations and how damaging it was to be around him.

He was a drunk. He used drugs. He was cruel. He was a low life. He was an alcoholic. He drank himself into a stupor. When I saw him, we went to dive bars and drank.

The thing was I had needed a parent and it took me a while to really get that my father wasn't it.

When I separated myself from my father, and he finally understood that I wanted no contact he turned on me. He could not hold onto any goodwill for me at all, if I did not want to be around him. He was dead from cancer within 5 years. His death was hastened by drugs.

Some years later when I finally saw my brother again he told me how much my father had come to hate me. He hated me rabidly. He called me a lesbian, "n" lover. Anything bad he could think of he called me, especially sexual deviant or racially marginalized.

There were two prices I paid, as I see it of having distanced myself from my father. The first, he turned on me. The second, he went to the bottom and died.

For what it's worth, I understand that neither was not my fault.

But I think that I have struggled most of my life that I had a father who was dissolute, without moral discipline, and mean. Who in the years before he died, hated me with all his guts.

Nobody had a Dad like my father (or my mother for that matter.)While gifted with looks, charm, great intelligence, he lacked the character to make something of himself and his life. Instead, he sunk steadily lower. The trajectory of my father's life was relentlessly downwards. Emerging horribleness. Degradation. Unrelenting decline. As much as he could, he took me with him. Did I fear on some level the same thing for my son?

I never wanted to live as my father but I was attracted to some of the same things as he, to the night, to marginal people, to danger, etc. Later in life I substituted travel and work to satiate this interest but as a younger woman, I flirted with people who did things: bars nightlife punk drugs crime.

But I really do think that adopting a child who had been affected by some of the circumstances that affected my father...was part of my motivation to adopt my son. A fantasy of rescue is what they call it.

And for years, our life together, mine and my son, was everything I could have wished it to be.

As my son got older, I may have had a fear on some level, that if I let go my son would run amok, as did my father. I am only surmising this. It was not something I faced at the time.

In my family I was the one who was responsible for my parents. Not vice versa. Was there the unconscious expectation on my part that my son care for me? I am not sure.

Both of my parents were very good looking. My father was tall, handsome, charming. Nobody had a Dad like him.

My parents divorced when I was 8 years old, and my father became a merchant marine traveling all over foreign lands. He had a huge amount of money. When I was 8 I was going to five star restaurants. We took cabs everywhere. I lived like in the movie Casablanca. Colorful characters. Exotic people.

Except it wasn't really like that.

My Dad was investigated for heroin trafficking.

I would wait for him. He would not show up. I adored him. He was unreliable. The idea of him more than the reality, was the thing. My prince will come.

As he aged.

Sadism.

Alcoholism.

Amorality.

Cockroaches.

Drunk.

Cruel.

Lost looks.

Cool.

Dissolute.

Hepatitis.

I hated being in that life.

What is your understanding of what is happening between yourself and your son?
I think he is trying to deal with my detaching. In some positive ways, in some negative.

Also, I think he is trying to work out who he is. Being adopted he has to work out his destiny with respect to me, but also in terms of who he is as the son of his birth parents, that they were so compromised, and their behavior caused him such harm.

My son blames his birth parents for the fact that he acquired Hep B at birth, was drug exposed, and indeed for the general circumstances of his life at birth and infancy. He blames them for his mental illness. He feels very stigmatized by the way they lived, their drug addiction and the fact that they were ill.

So I think he is trying to some extent in the way he is living to visit and explore some of the circumstances in which his birth parents lived. I think it is as much this as limited capacity on his part to do better, that is responsible for his choices.

It could also be that he uses his lifestyle choices to both distinguish himself from me and to distance himself from me emotionally because he knows that living in such a way so triggers me.

I think I am trying to detach. That is to say, to move back enough to allow him to live his life independently, experience consequences and learn; at the same time, to remove myself from experiencing and paying such a high price for the consequences of his acts, and his behaviors.

I think my son is reacting to my move back by testing different ways to keep power over me; at the same time he is responding to this vacuum in the power relationship in a variety of ways. He is punishing me a little bit. He is trying to take control by distancing from me (as opposed to me distancing from him. They call this passive into active, I think.) And I think he is trying to mature.

Do you think he is establishing independence as you did too when you were young?
I do not know. What is independence? To me, it can be: Autonomy. Self-determination. Economic self-sufficiency.

My son has made his own choices for years. He has insisted upon having complete control. The problem has been that he does not want to take responsibility for consequences of his choices. Nor does he want to take responsibility for paying his way, or, for working. He wants full freedom without responsibility.

He is living independently. I think he is autonomous in terms of control, but not autonomous psychologically. But I think I was not either for most of my life, in terms of my mother. Had I been, I don't think I would have suffered so these past two years plus.

Economic self-sufficiency for my son is mixed. He does get the SSI payment. So if I accept that this is okay, really no different than my pension, then I can say he is establishing economic self-sufficiency.

So, in sum, with the exception of working, he is living independently more or less as I did.

Somewhere in your posts of the last day ago you ask if I think that my Mother did love me in the period before she died, or if I think that what it was was that she was so sick she could not stop me from loving her.

My answer is some of both. My mother's way of loving was always very attenuated, always limited by her selfishness, that she cared about little beyond herself. Her love could be trumped by her self-interest, of doing hateful things to serve herself.

As my Mother died a paradoxical thing happened. In one way her power to hurt me diminished as she became vulnerable and dependent. On the other hand, her power grew as she became more needy, and I became the only person who would or could help her.

Eventually my decisions during this period came to hinge on, who was I and who did I want to be. Could I be strong enough to care for her? Was I strong enough to move close to her? Was I strong enough to not? Could I still love myself if I did not put her first, as she had nobody else?

The months as she died, I took one and than another position in response to these questions, to see what if anything I could do.

I had a fundamental ignorance through it all that I did not at that time understand.

Deciding to love her and care for her, seemed straightforward. The problem was to do so, I gave up defenses erected for a lifetime.

I could have never anticipated the impact on me as I give them up. When my mother fell ill there was a change in the dynamic between us of a lifetime. What I lost was the ability to use my only defense, distance.

At the same time, when she became vulnerable, I had a Sophie's choice. I had to choose between abandoning her, which would mean I would abandon part of myself--my sense of myself as responsible. Or step up, and at the same time, expose myself to danger, without defense.

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To sum up, Cedar, my mother's capacity to love always was quite limited. I think she loved me in the way she could. At the end, I accepted that. And I decided to love my mother as she was. As she was dying, what she lacked as a mother was not any longer important. She was my mother. The person who occupied that space in me. I decided to love her as she was. My decision. To love her in place.

Yes, you are right. In the months until she died, and after, I was depleted and exhausted. It was like entering the twilight zone. I had became selfless. I had left all of my needs, interests, capacities. Her needs became the center of my life. I resisted it at first, wanting to keep my own life. But then, I surrendered.

What I did not understand was when I surrendered I lost control of my life. I had gone onto an alternate track, where I had no self-protection. I became the person who I would have been had I not stood up for myself. Ever. Even though I had stood up for myself most of my life.

Every so often I look on Zillow at my sister's house in a city far across the country where I have never been. Yesterday, to my surprise, the house was up for sale. My sister believing she is upper class, clearly had it staged.

We spent an hour M and I trying to understand what she was doing. 75 percent, M thought, she is moving to another city. 75 percent I thought, now that she has my mother's money she is buying a more expensive house. Looks like I won. I saw she joined a religious congregation last month. She would not have done so, if she was leaving that City. So, it must be she is buying a more expensive house. Her property taxes are more than my mortgage payment, already.

I am not stalking her. Let's make that clear right off the bat. Just Google and Zillow. Why so strongly in my mind was my sister yesterday?

How are you interpreting his behavior Copa, and how are you managing your emotions through this time?
I think I am blaming and punishing myself. As long as I can remember when I am vulnerable, I have turned on myself. I punish myself for being vulnerable. And I look for ways to make it worse, not better. It is not conscious, but I do not stop it. And a major way I do this is by throwing overboard any support I may have. I distance myself and I create fights with whoever I have in my corner. In this circumstance, I have turned on M since Friday or Saturday.

M and I have several vulnerabilities in our relationship that are really, really raging red scabs...easily opened up by me. They have to do with his status here, the fact that when he left Mx 11 years ago, he separated from but did not formally divorce his wife, and because where we live has been economically depressed, I have been the most steady breadwinner, and now we live primarily on my pension. He works for himself as much as he can. Getting a job is more complicated.

The thing is, these things can be a way to attack myself, and for others to attack me and us.

These trouble spots have always been present in our relationship. We have learned to manage by disregarding them or working together to resolve them.

The thing I want to say is because they are ever present, I can always tap my anxiety about any one of them, to create distance from M. And whoever in our life who wants to opine about this or that, seems to feel free. M could care less. I care a great deal.

I have long ago made peace with the fact that I wanted the relationship, and accept what comes with it. Except, I can change my mind anytime I need to. And, if I feel vulnerable I can be very sensitive to the perceptions of others' about these personal dynamics. And believe me, a lot of people have strong feelings one way or another about these things which really are personal and private matters.

So, I picked a fight with M. About all of these issues. Again. We are okay, now.
 
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Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
Deciding to love her and care for her, seemed straightforward. The problem was to do so, I gave up defenses erected for a lifetime.

Defenses against loving her, Copa?

So, I picked a fight with M. About all of these issues. Again. We are okay, now.

Are you feeling stronger, more centered, more entitled and determined to have what you want? That is what is happening to me. I am clearer, more separately my own.

The War of The Grandma's Baklava grand is here! She arrived unexpectedly yesterday, to surprise us. Unless I can talk her out of it, we are to hike a local trail this morning.

It is woodtick season here.

Man, I hate woodticks.

But for right now, I am having coffee with cream and thinking about all of you. A happy morning.

:O)

Cedar
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
It's like our abilities to discriminate what is important in life are twisted

Yesterday's postings were chaotic. I apologize. I was posting when Baklava granddaughter arrived. I just hit post and spent the rest of the day with her.

This morning, I can barely make heads nor tails out of my post, myself.

Let me be clearer, because what I was working toward yesterday was actually an important concept: where we pay attention.

In abusive relationship with our parent, we learned we had no right to self definition. That is the essence of boundary destruction. We knew we could not say no; we learned we could not even say yes because the rules for saying yes were changeable things. We learned that whatever safety there was for us lay in our abuser's eyes. The only control we had over our lives, or over the terror of our potential deaths ~ and this was imaginary too ~ lay in continually assessing the changing emotional states of our abusers. Remember that when we were little and did not have words to describe our situations to ourselves, we had only fear, and avoidance of remembered fear, to learn from. We learned hyper-awareness to the abuser's chaotic emotional state was what mattered. *** Where peers who would go on to live self-defined lives learned to accept and cope with whatever their challenges were, we learned to pay attention to the abuser's emotional state. *** We went to school in the morning after nights sometimes, and sometimes not, defined by a nighttime awakening to the raging, out of control abuser. They say that in brainwashing soldiers, confusing the victim regarding what time it is, and whether it is safe to go to sleep, and preventing restful sleep, is part of the process of terrorizing and disorienting the victim.

Those things happened to us, too.

We were jerked out of sleep without rhyme or reason and subjected to intense fear. Whether our abusers hurt us or not, the fear, the sickening, intense fear of it was there as we awakened into their reality.

They could not even leave us alone while we slept. We did not grow up believing we even have a right to rest, to sleep, to ever relax.


***

Back to the main point: having a look at what matters, at how we value and assess and categorize, how we think, today.

Hyper~awareness of the emotional states of everyone in our lives makes it impossible for us to concentrate with the same sharply honed attention people who are not emotionally attuned to others are able to devote to the task at hand.

This could explain SWOT, how you could be bright and responsive and intelligent when you are safely posting away, or when you were safely away from your abuser for a time, but were not able to perform to your own expectations regarding school assignments. They do not expect people in concentration camps, or soldiers being traumatized into brainwashed states to turn in book reports on time or exceed expectations in other ways.

Yet, we expected those things of ourselves.

So, we believe we have a thinking problem.

What we have is a PTSD problem with brains which have had to be hypervigilant to the changing emotional realities of our abusers.

But we didn't have those words to label what it is about the way we think that was different, either.

The wonder of it is that we are able to think coherently, at all.

It always bothered me that SWOT believed she was not smart. I am considered overly smart. Everything has to be so finely defined for me. This is because when I was punished, when my abuser was on the path, I needed to know why I had done whatever it was I had done. Thus: "Just don't think, Cedar."

Again: You do not matter. Only I matter. "Don't you dare." was a thing I heard often, as well.

***

In the midst of abusive incidents, we learned to tamp down the immediacy of our awareness. We learned to freeze ourselves a little so we could hone in with terrible intensity on where the abuser was emotionally. We needed to do that so we could know how bad it was going to get. We needed to do that so we could remain functional through intense fear. I can feel the sickness, can feel again the thick, bumbling feeling of shame and of fear in the incidents I posted about yesterday. But the interesting thing is that I was hyper-conscious, was totally focused on all of it from the perspective of my mother's emotional state.

I don't see my brother's face as we were forced to fight one another: I see my mother's.

I don't see my friend's face when I remember running for home when my mother screamed my name through the neighborhood so loudly that I heard her on the other side of the block. What I remember is the sick anticipation of what my mother's face was going to look like; that feeling of too late, and of should have known better than to be in the sunshine, just walking along with a friend.

I had forgotten to keep my focus on my mother.

And that is what the crime was in the red shoes incident, and that was the crime in the packing clothes for camp incident. Whatever it was we discussed for the third thing, I am sure the sin in it was that I had not been focused on my mother, had not been sickly clinging, thanking her for a birthday party I was afraid to have.

We were, I was, raised to never, ever, look away from, lose awareness of, my mother. To never, ever, put anything before her.

Could this be part of why she did not visit the hospital when I had my babies?

She came to our homes after their births with my father and grandmother.

I think there is material here that will be helpful to us in reclaiming our perspectives. We are seeing in the same ways, today.

I am.

I am so busy assessing the emotional states of others that it has become second nature to me. Compassion, then. That is where it started, this intense awareness of the emotional states of others. Compassion, in those whose locus of control are external, and sociopathy in those for whom locus of control is internal?

Could this be true.

Well, who cares. I was trying to figure out how my sister could be so different than me. Why doesn't matter. I am distracting myself.

So, that is the genesis of people pleasing, right? It has to do with how we see, with what we think is important when we filter everything through our brains to decide response.

So that is another way of describing the genesis of external locus of control.

If we can see it, we can change it.

So, that's two things: Genesis of attention to other people's emotional states (people pleasing) and genesis of external locus of control even in filtering information through our brains and deciding which, of all the thousands of bits of information, are relevant.

I need to make breakfast now. Baklava grand is here this morning. She is a treasure, soft and bright and sweet.

She brought me much tea from the tea-creating hippie.

We are enjoying all kinds of tea, very much. These are lovely memories we are making together. I feel fortunate, and very happy, this morning.

Cedar
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Remember that when we were little and did not have words to describe our situations to ourselves, we had only fear, and avoidance of remembered fear, to learn from. We learned hyper-awareness to the abuser's chaotic emotional state was what mattered. *** Where peers who would go on to live self-defined lives learned to accept and cope with whatever their challenges were, we learned to pay attention to the abuser's emotional state. *** We went to school in the morning after nights sometimes, and sometimes not, defined by a nighttime awakening to the raging, out of control abuser. They say that in brainwashing soldiers, confusing the victim regarding
Wow. Amazing. Not quite as extreme in my case. But true. Like I never knew when a "night raid" was coming or some sort of anger at something I didn't expect, such as her thinking I dated a non-Jewish boy two months ago...things would just come out of the blue. But I did say "no."

That didn't mean I wasn't afraid of her. I was and I also hated/loved her.


Copa, I'm so sorry for your hurt. I am sorry you are going through these feelings now and I know how hard it is to do it. You're being very brave. It's easier to stay "stuffed."
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
This could explain SWOT, how you could be bright and responsive and intelligent when you are safely posting away, or when you were safely away from your abuser for a time, but were not able to perform to your own expectations regarding school assignments. They do not expect people in concentration camps, or soldiers being traumatized into brainwashed states to turn in book reports on time or exceed expectations in other ways
Thank you, Cedar. You would probably find learning about PTSD interesting. I am sure I have many symptoms, although I fought that, even as my therapists would say, "Well, you sound like you have some trauma symptoms..."

I am working on my Wise Mind skills to keep myself positive and with this mindfulness, I am checking out my body every morning to see how I feel. I woke up, as I do every day, with a bit of stress in my gut. I was able to deal with it today by telling myself, "You were conditioned as a child to be stressed. You are safe now and don't need this defense anymore." Then I did a guided meditation and the stress was gone.

It's amazing how our childhood years condition our responses for life. We feel things we were taught to feel and the younger it started, the more it stays with us. And the more important it is to avoid triggers.

Other people may find anger helpful. I read that in a post on PE. I think it's true of people who were raised to learn to control their anxiety. Or to not fear abandonment or lack of validation. For me, and maybe for you two, anger and anxiety go hand-in-hand. It is never healthy for me to be angry. It causes an over-reaction that is fueled by my anxiety. It triggers panic attacks, which is definitely not good for me.

Again, we learn this as children. The fight or flight is never turned off.

Look into trauma symptoms. Verrrrrrrrrrrrrrry interesting.

Sorry if I stole the thread. Cedar, hope you have more fun times today with your precious grand! Grands are the best!
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
It always bothered me that SWOT believed she was not smart.
I do think I'm smart, but I also have neurological differences that make conventional learning difficult. School was a disaster for me, both due to neurological differences and other stuff plus a total lack of believing in myself.

"Girls don't have to be smart. They just have to be beautiful."
"You get an 'A' in Boys." (This actually wasn't true either. I flunked boys and never had a steady boyfriend in high school partly due to the fact that I was such a goody two shoes I wouldn't even hardly let anyone kiss me).
"Anything in a pair of pants." Yeah, maybe, although certainly not sexually. I needed to feel SOMEBODY liked me and I had that with boys.

I didn't care about school or grades by the time I got to high school. I had given up. I needed more tutoring and help than I was given and it was too hard to concentrate...who knows why? I don't. There was no special education at the time and my parents did not bother with the problem. I was just a girl, and, worse, a baaaaaaaaaaad girl.
 
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Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
This is because when I was punished, when my abuser was on the path, I needed to know why I had done whatever it was I had done. Thus: "Just don't think, Cedar."

Again: You do not matter. Only I matter. "Don't you dare." was a thing I heard often, as well.

I wanted to explain this more clearly. In explaining why I had made a certain choice, which was actually a doomed attempt to respond to the abuser's intent, in rationally explaining the why behind whatever it was the abuser was on the path about, the response was always: "Just don't think, Cedar." And I had forgotten the words "Don't you dare." until this morning. But those words were there, too. "Don't you dare." (And imagine a mindset where one is prepared for every predicted eventuality ~ think how much offline brainpower was being consumed to do that, to have that running conversation going on under the radar. That is how our minds work today. Going off in every direction and making cognitive leaps to fill in the blanks to form a coherent whole.)

Another piece: "Don't you dare." justified the abuse the abuser had intended all along. So, that's probably why I did not have that in connection with "Just don't think, Cedar." until this morning. "Don't you dare." was a signal for another mindset than the explaining mindset. "Don't you dare." was code for: Too late.

But as it was happening to me, those two things could not be connected because there had been a paradigm shift in my thinking from rational thought to survival mode.

Huh.

True.

That feels very right.

I am glad that I know now the truth in: Abusers abuse because they are abusers. That is why I think I have a thinking problem. Because though we make what sense we can out of abusive incidents to create for ourselves an imaginary sense of efficacy, nothing ever fit. Maybe that is why I work toward a center from the rim where I know two opposing things.

That way, I know what was real.

Because growing up, those of us in close proximity to abusers learned that nothing makes sense. All we know for sure is to be aware, to be hyper-aware, of the abuser's mindset.

This could account for all kinds of absent mindedness in our lives; for loss of time when we feel safe enough to disregard the abuser, to stop reaching out to determine the abuser's emotional state.

Cedar
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Cedar and Copa,

This is extremely interesting regarding symptoms of emotional abuse. So much of the symptoms I have. No wonder my therapists always put the trauma bit out there and no wonder I didn't want to believe it could be. I used to think, "That's silly. Nobody hit me. I wasn't sexually abused. That means it wasn't that bad."

I wanted to protect E. even though she never protected me. Interestingly, I never did or do blame my father for my childhood. He wasn't there much and he could yell too, but I saw her as the one who was baiting him into his anger, like she did me, and I saw her as the dangerous one. My father never really scared me, although we've had our moments. I am not traumatized because of anything he did. It was almost entirely two things: E. and the abuse at school, which is also a part. Strangely Uncle is a very small part but for the limited amount of time I ever saw him, it is amazing how revolting I find him and how creepy. No, he didn't sexually abuse me. I'm sure of that. I think his arrogance and his words just remind me a lot of E. And what he did to my boys, which the entire D N A collection validated. I guess they didn't understand that an adult just walking in and out of a child's life for his own gain is unhealthy and sad for the child. After all, how would we know this?

And he was Perfect with a capital P. (shudder)

I never loved or liked him, but he does take up some rental space in my head just for standing for everything that was wrong with FOO that *they* couldn't see.

And he was so "good" at hiding his selfishness, a bit like Thing 2. Good skills at "looking good."

Anyhow, I think you'll like the article I posted.

http://www.healingresources.info/emotional_trauma_overview.htm
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
I didn't care about school or grades by the time I got to high school. I had given up. I needed more tutoring and help than I was given and it was too hard to concentrate...who knows why? I don't. There was no special education at the time and my parents did not bother with the problem. I was just a girl, and, worse, a baaaaaaaaaaad girl.

This is what I am saying this morning, SWOT. How could those of us treated as we were in our homes, where we are supposed to be safe and supported and cherished and encouraged...how could we concentrate on things that did not have directly to do with the abuser's emotional mindset. We could and did concentrate to a degree of course. But our full attention, and the underlying self talk whirling away beneath the stream of conscious thought, was on our abusers. What they had done the night before at 2 a.m. Whether they were right. Where we'd gone wrong. Somehow, trying to put those pieces that could never make sense together so we could learn how to keep the abuser placated in future when we were asleep. With whatever attention we had left, we were predicting what mindset the abuser would be in when we got back from school. Or when we went to sleep that night, or any night.

The rest of our powers of concentration? Were learning algebra or geometry or the mechanics of the English language. Maybe that is why we can grasp so many things intuitively without knowing how we did that. That intuitive kind of learning is probably the only kind we had left over to devote to whatever was being required of us in school.

SWOT, here is the thing: How could I be easily honor bound in my scholastic career when I returned to school as an adult, but only an A or B student in high school? Think about that for a minute. How could I do that SWOT, so easily too, when my children were troubled, my marriage was teetering, I was working, and had just gone through what I had gone through with that freaking first therapist?

How could I do that, SWOT? Advanced math, statistics, chemistry, anat/phys and biology when I had been out of school for something like eighteen years?

Because I was not afraid. My mother was the last thing on my mind. I was focused so wholly on my kids. I remember she popped over to spend the night while I was studying for finals. She knew I was studying for finals, because when she said she would like to come spend the night that night, I said "I am studying for finals, mom. Let's do it another night." My mom came the night of her choosing anyway.

And I studied, anyway.

I made dinner and so on, of course. But then, I studied. And she mentioned something about that when she left the next morning, too. Something about not having been able to visit because I was studying, like that didn't matter.

Circle and circle and circle and who cares about that part this morning. The part I am caring about this morning is exactly what you said:"...it was too hard to concentrate, and who knows why...."

That's why.

Cedar
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
The article was excellent.

The last treatment listed? Is very like what we do, here. All the things I never discuss ~ not just what happened, but how I felt when it happened ~ I do that, here. So do both of you. As we've felt safe (and this is where you sister's determination to take that away comes in) we have gone deeper. We have each recalled traumatic events, re-experienced and re-understood them through our own eyes instead of taking the abuser's perspective and re-injuring ourselves through remembering the traumatic event by seeing ourselves as they saw us.

Instead of us seeing an adult abusing a child, we revisited the hatred and contempt in the abuser's eyes and, until we found safe witness here, named ourselves again whatever it was the abuser saw when we were depersonalized and the abuse occurred.

Even when we were sleeping, the abuser could not leave us alone. So, we began sleeping fully aware that we did not deserve even rest.

That is how much we were broken.

It is good to see in this way. Good, to touch the anger that should always have been there against our abusers but that we turned on ourselves, instead.

So here is a question: What if I turn into a really nasty person. So we have had to trust ourselves not to be that core nastiness those stupid abusers hurt into us.

"Go away, you silly king." That is the Frenchman, from Monty Python.

Plus, we laugh here. We do share beautiful things, or visits from grandchildren. We do laugh together sometimes, in our postings, as was mentioned as part of the theory behind that last kind of healing therapy listed in the article SWOT posted for us.

Just excellent, SWOT.

Thank you for posting for us.

Cedar
 
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