New to ODD need help/advice

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Drew64, Jan 1, 2015.

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  1. Drew64

    Drew64 Member

    Came across this forum during web search. Thought I would join after seeing not alone in this battle. Will try to make a long story short. Have a 15 y/o daughter who was diagnosed with ADHD at a young age. Has always been a little difficult but overall a good kid. This past yr things just got out of control. Partly my fault. She entered high school last yr without her best friend being there. Her friend was hospitalized for cutting herself. She then blamed my daughter for her actions. So made it thru freshman yr and she did ok. Gave her her laptop back over summer and that was a mistake. She got so involved in minecraft and chatting with friends online I couldn't get her off. Finally my wife tried taking it away at night to prepare her for school well the next thing I know I'm getting a call at work saying the cops are at our house. It seems my daughter pulled a kitchen knife out and threaten her mom unless she got the computer back. They took her to the hospital which has a paych ward for kids. She was admitted and ended up being there a week because she was just stubborn and would follow instructions, take medications or shower because the showers were dirty. She was angry at us for letting her stay there. Finally was D/C after 10'days. She seemed to be better and was back at school but that lasted only a few weeks. On top of this the detective that came to scene decided to charge her with assault with weapon so we could get proper help we needed. So we had to go to court 3 times because my daughter wouldn't admit to anything. Says mom was at fault for yelling at her. Finally they dropped the charges free and clear. We had a case manager and therapist come to house. Still have them coming. Daughter started missing school though making excuses not doing any homework. She stopped taking medications saying didn't make her feel good and doesent engage in therapy. Finally school decided she needed an alternative school. We saw two of them and she hated them both. She has an IEP. So they felt home instruction would start until could find a residential facility for her. She is moody and I can't get her off her computer without a fight. She has completely reversed her sleep cycle since some of her friends are in different time zones. She can be sweet as pie at times and angry again in no time. She doesent do drugs, drink , smoke or anything like that. She just plays minecraft and talks online. We have been told this is her social outlet since has few friends at school. Sometimes can't even get her to shower. I started researching residential facilities in NJ since we live there. Her case manager is looking for a proper fit as well. Not much around our area. This is very disheartening. I've explain to my daughter what may happen and she just wants to be left alone and feels we need therapy. My wife and I do see a therapist to help with parenting. My wife does have a short fuse but also suffered a severe concussion a few hrs ago and still has symptoms. So basically have been looking for a residential facility so she can be out of house and get treated and educated. I know she will not go voluntarily and may need to be hospitalized first then transferred. If anyone can PM me with any facilities in NJ that they can recommend. To me she doesent fit into a normal patient population since just behavior issue and no substance abuse or anything. I have one in mind that I like but might not be covered. Thanks in advance and I'm glad to see im not alone in this struggle.
     
  2. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Hi. JMO but even if she doesn't do drugs, and I'm not convinced that's 100% true...it would be hard for you to know for sure...she has some mental health issues...bad ones...going on and is unsafe to live with. It's a bit extreme to take a knife to a mother for ANY reason. If you have other kids or pets, I'd be leery of keeping her home any longer than necessary. I'm no therapist or psychiatrist, but it sounds more serious than a behavioral issue to me. She sounds mentally ill or personality disordered.

    Drugs or not drugs, I think she does fit into a residential treatment setting. You can't leave her at home if she is doing dangerous stuff, and this way she'll get some kind of help, whether she likes it or not.

    If she was eighteen, she would have been charged. What are her friends like? Who is she chatting with online? Boys? Men? Is she home alone during the day? I ask because my daughter was homeschooled and still did drugs and I didn't know it. Look to your daughter's friends, even if there are only a few. If they do drugs, she probably does as well. Like hangs with like, especially at her age. My daughter sneaked out at night when we were sleeping. There is always a way to do drugs if you want.

    Did she have very chaotic early years? Was she adopted? Is your wife her stepmother? Something sounds "off" about her behavior that goes beyond ODD. Chaotic early years, birth-five, can cause serious issues later on. Adopted kids are always at higher risk and also often have gone through chaos and abuse before coming to our home...sometimes, sadly, it is too late. Early divorce/neglect/abuse...all of this can contribute to problems later on. She sounds very angry at your wife which is why I asked if she was a stepmother.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2015
  3. Drew64

    Drew64 Member

    Well thanks for the reply. First off I know 100percemt she doesent do drugs. She is shy , timid girl. Went thru the DARE program in our school system. When she was going to school would hang with very good kids whom I have met and met there parents. Online the only thing she does is play minecraft. She has no Facebook account, no Twitter account or anything like that. She hates those social networks. She feels different t because she likes Japanese anime and kids in her class don't. She talks to boys and girls who have this same interest online. Does a lot of drawing with her tablet and usually is in her room so I can hear most of the conversation. She may curse sometimes but no bad conversation. The threat made was just give me the computer or else. She has seen 2 doctors and a counselor during her court time and she is not a threat to herself or others. She and her mom have always battled. More now that mom is not working. When she was working she had a job that kept her from being at a lot of my daughters functions. I was taking her to her sport events and stuff. The only drugs she took were the ones prescribed by her doctors. This I am sure of. I know my kid very well. She is angry and depressed I know. Thinks she is hurting us not herself. I have no problems being in the house with her. When she is on her computer talking it's like nothing is wrong. Laughs and carries on conversation. We have been told by professionals that residential would be good so she is out of house and away from any conflict in house. Maybe a wake up,call for her.
     
  4. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Ok...well, if you don't think the knife incident was serious...and you believe she is not a threat to anyone (doctors have been known to be incorrect), then I would NOT send her to residential. She'll get killed in there. I had a few foster kids who were in residential and it's a tough scene where if you misbehave you can be put in restraints and taken to an Isolation room. I've seen it. It's for tough kids who ARE threatening to others. Many were foster kids. Some had parents who wished they could take their kids home, but it was hard to get them out once they were in.

    Get your information about ANY facility outside of people who work for that facility. You want to know all about it to see if it's right for your daughter. Talk to parents who have or had kids there before committing to sending her. Don't just trust a walk through. Get serious information. I would never have put my kids in the facility the State put these kids into, but I was just a foster. I had no choice or say. And you may be fooled too. Be a smart informed parent :)

    Was your daughter ever evaluated by a private psychiatrist (the guy with the MD?) after that incident. There are different levels of professionals. A counselor would not have the experience of a psychiatrist, for example, nor can a counselor diagnose.

    Have you looked into teen schools for disturbed kids?

    I forget what they are called. I have heard second hand that they are costly but far more helpful than residential.

    Did your daughter actually get close to her mother with the knife? Does your wife feel safe alone with her? After all, she's a woman and many, like me, tend to get frightened by stuff like that. That would be hard for me to forget and I'd be very concerned that she did that. But that's me.

    Good luck :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2015
  5. Drew64

    Drew64 Member

    No it was an across the room thing. The facilities I'm looking at don't use restraints. I can't afford one of those educational associates. The facility I'm looking at I've spoken to one of the supervisors who,does the school. Answered all my questions. It's attached to a hospital. So it has inpatient, outpatient and residential. I'm not sure what facilities your talking about but I've not heard of them using restrains unless it's in a mental hospital.
     
  6. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Behavioral health centers of all kinds use restraints if a kid or adult get out of control. Or they put people in Isolation. I have a serious mood disorder and had voluntarily admitted myself to good psychiatric hospitals three times for treatment. I do not know if your particular facility does not use this method if a child will not comply. I hope they don't! I saw kids taken away by security guards in what was a residential treatment center for my foster child and they were young kids, under teenage, so I just wanted you to be sure they didn't do that. Would hate for your daughter to have that happen for ANY reason. It astounded me. Then they would be put in an isolation room and locked in until the doctor on call felt the child could be safe with the others. I've had a lot of experience as both a patient and a student of mental health. I'm doing very well and these places helped me, but I was careful to follow the rules and try to get better.

    I actually learned a lot and have good feelings about the hospitals. However, they were short term and I made sure I did nothing to get put into isolation.

    Your facility sounds decent. Double check on the restraints. Ask what they do if a child gets violent or is non-compliant. Make them tell you everything. Read their policies. Sometimes once they are in there it is hard to get out. This is true of adults too. More likely, if you have no insurance they may toss you out early. Find out all about the place. If it is run by the State, be veryyyyyyy diligent about finding out everything first.

    Yeah, those teen schools are pricey, but excellent. I would do that if there was any way Just do your research. Don't take anything for granted. Just make sure your daughter will be in good hands. I'm not trying to talk you out of it. I'm trying to help you make sure the daughter you love is in a truly good place. Not all of them are.
     
  7. Drew64

    Drew64 Member

    Appreciate it. In nj we have a system set up that once I. A hospital they have a case manager which she does. They are looking into facilities that they try to match to her. Some are more for runaways. She just has a lot of power in our house now and everyone feels she needs to be on medications and talk to someone. She refuses home therapy. Blames mom for a lot but she is responsible for her actions. She's a good kid. Never in any trouble in school. Not disruptive except at home towards me and my wife and even this varies. She can come out of room and be in great mood and another day just not want to say or do anything. She is isolating herself and her hygiene is not the best so that's why residential. I know she will not go quietly. Just defiant. The clinic I. Looking at does a pot of substance abuse rehab but deals with all aspects of behavior. They use a reward system. Don't go to school don't get to go in trip,for weekend. I've looed into wilderness programs. My kid didn't even like sleep away camp. Was on honor roll first yr of school. Feel,depression is causing her anger. Feels like has no friends. I worried this would make it worse but she left us no options. She can't not go to school or get therapy and it's better than a group home.
     
  8. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Hey, good about the case manager and glad everyone wants to help her. Doesn't sound like she is a bad kid, just kind of lost and a teenager. She'll get a good evaluation in any facility. Good luck :)
     
  9. Wiped Out

    Wiped Out Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Just adding in my welcome. Sorry you needed to find us but glad you did since you will get much support here. I hope you find a good fit for your daughter if she goes to a residential center. After coming out of the p-hospital did they psychiatrist give any type of diagnosis?
     
  10. Drew64

    Drew64 Member

    She was diagnosed with depression and became very oppositional. Was on Zoloft in hospital but when saw outside child psychiatrist she told him made her feel empty inside so we tried lexapro which also gave her side effects. Then abilify which seemed to work but the dr was honest with her and always told her to let him know if medications made her feel out of sorts. She said it did and has not been on medications since. If she would have stayed on it I think wounds be in as bad a shape as now. Also just has no friends that has anything i common with her except online.
     
  11. Wiped Out

    Wiped Out Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I agree she probably wouldn't be in as bad of shape but teenage years coupled with depression is so difficult. My easy child/difficult child suffers from depression. When she was in high school it was horrible and she didn't have a lot of friends either (mostly due to her being an introvert). Her medications took a lot of trial and error before she found a good combo for her. Things aren't perfect for her but are much improved.
     
  12. Drew64

    Drew64 Member

    Here's another problem I may have. How do you get someone to a facility who doesent want to go. I know a lot of these are voluntary which I think is absurd given not close to 18 y/o yet. We have been told may have to admit her to hospital first then have her transferred to a facility.
     
  13. GuideMe

    GuideMe Active Member

    Drew,

    Welcome to the forum. I would like to offer some of my advice.

    It is quite a common reaction your daughter had when you took her computer away, believe or not. Some will say that it is not a normal reaction, but in all actuality, it is. If they disagree with me, that's fine, I will leave it for the birds to argue with. I am speaking from MY own experience. Many of the people on this board were not raised with the current technology today and their adult kids were not raised with it either. I am forced to put this disclaimer since there is a few who will argue with me, especially me for whatever reason and go on and on, getting off topic, and the whole issue becomes convoluted and that's not what *I* am here for. I am here to offer advice to the asker and help and also to ask for help with my own issues. These are my intentions and those were my intentions when I joined this forum or any other forum I belong to. I find anything else or less, just ridiculous and waste of my time.

    Anyway, back to the subject at hand. We are not just talking about Nintendo, Sega and all the other old gaming systems of the past. The current technology out there today many of us did not have. However, I, raised a daughter in this exact age. When social media really blew up, she was about 11 years old. Let's forget about social media for a minute, let's talk about all the new aged computer active games such as World of Warcraft. I don't know if you don't know anything about it, but since I am short on time, these types of games can be compared to being addicted to crack. Even if your daughter doesn't do social media, all the current platforms that are out there these days, whether it be social media, interactive gaming such as and especially Mincraft, iphones, ipod, what have you, are HIGHLY addictive.

    It seems you allowed your daughter to unknowingly become addicted to these games, most likely so it would occupy her and you didn't have to deal with all of her issues. You were just hoping it would go away like all parents in this situation do. But, surprise, surprise. They just got worse. You tried to take her life, that you allowed her to build, away from her. That's why she pulled the knife, a violent reaction, which again is not uncommon at all for kids or teens who are addicted to their games, social media, phone...etc. etc. So I guess I am kind of upset, since you and your wife played a hand in this, that you are seeking to send her away by any means necessary. You should think really hard about what you are doing. No facility is going to except her for being addicted to games. You already tried to have her admitted because she pulled a knife, but that ain't going to get her in you said. So what's left since you say she isn't addicted to drugs? Nothing. No residential facility will accept her with her history and rightfully so. Sorry if I am coming off harsh, but I am just thinking about your daughter here and in my humble, humble opinion, I don't think this is fair to her. I think you need to find other, more reasonable ways to deal with this situation. You allowed her to get into this gaming world that is so utterly addicting, it's going to take a long time and a lot of work for her to get out of it.
     
  14. Drew64

    Drew64 Member

    First off thanks for input. Second we do admit a role for some of her behavior. But I never gave her the computer to occupy her so I wouldn't have to deal with her issues. I've been dealing with her issues for a while. We had her see a child psychiatrist after being released from hospital. He stated has clinical depression and developing ODD. He said her computer usage is her only social outlet since no real friends at school. We did try and limit her time. Became a physical battle. So after much discussion with the school psychologist and the dr and case manager as well as other family member opinions it was fels residential was best. She has an IEP and yes facilities will accept her. We all feel she needs to be out of house for a short term so she can get better and we can go to therapy to learn better skills. We tried to get her to therapy she refuses. Refuses medications now. Refuses school. Tried alternative school didn't like. I think if she would be on low dose of medications which I don't like either but maybe necessary she will feel better. The depression fuels her anger because she feels she has nothing. We try to do activities all the time with her. You can't force someone to do stuff. Her hygiene is worse she is becoming non functional so what are our options
     
  15. GuideMe

    GuideMe Active Member

    Well, somehow she got addicted to these games, somehow Drew. She is still a child and you are the parent. I don't judge you at all, I really don't, I am just not too comfortable with your solution. I doubt a facility will accept her based on those issues I don't care what her school psychologist says or anyone else who agreed with it said. Maybe some of them just like to tell you what you want to hear. The most important thing is, the facilities are not agreeing with it so far, unless you start to lie or make her issues seem worse than they appear. However, I do not have that problem as you can see, lol. However, I think she does need help, she really does, I just don't agree with the way you're going about it.
     
  16. Drew64

    Drew64 Member

    Well I have spoken to a number of facilities. They say they deal,with these issues all the time. Yes addiction to video,game is problem but it is also her social outlet. She does have other issues as well. When someone spends 10 days in a psychiatric hospital and won't follow staff directions and makes excuses for everything and blames everyone else for the problems there is a problem. im not happy about sending her any where. It breaks my heart. She won't open up about any of her feelings to anyone. This is part of problem
     
  17. GuideMe

    GuideMe Active Member

    Well, from what I read, a lot of her issues can be chalked up to normal hormonal teenage rebellion. I have seen many other parents in here who have children with more severe issues than you're describing, not at all to diminish your daughters problem, I am just saying I don't think they are necessarily Residential Treatment Center (RTC) worthy. About your daughter not opening up to anyone, well that's HER choice. She has free will. You can't force her to open up if she doesn't want to. A wise therapist once told me you cannot force someone to get help. You can't force them to take medications. That therapist, was a therapist I wanted my daughter to see and he refused because he said it was pointless unless she wanted the help. Guess what? My daughter eventually came around as you can see by my signature. She takes her medications because she wants too. I have no say in it what so ever. I am very surprised and happy about how seriously she is taking her mental health, but that came from HER, not me. It would be one thing if you daughter came to you and asked for help and you refused her, but you can't force another human being to get help or open up or to take medications, especially for what seems to be such normal hormonal defiant teenage behavior. I mean you can try, but will it work? I don't know. Will it backfire? I don't know.

    I know you want this to be over now, but that's not in our control. Sometimes, in this particular situation, you just have to ride it out with them and work on it along the way.
     
  18. Drew64

    Drew64 Member

    Her outburst are not normal,for a 15 y/o. So when your kid doesent shower for 4 days even after her menstral cycle or brush her teeth in a month or go to school or refuse to do homework and wants to fail that's all hormonal. I don't think so. I know my daughter pretty well and she has a good personality but this past year totally changed. Screams at us. Sometimes hits my wife. Not normal sorry.
     
  19. GuideMe

    GuideMe Active Member

    It's not abnormal either Mr. Drew. There is certainly a scale here on what's normal and abnormal. From one extreme to another. I'm sure you're not that naive about what teens can go through, especially girls. Last time I checked, it's not a crime not to take a shower. It's not abnormal to refuse to do homework. Not abnormal to scream at parents. If she hits your wife, call the police. That needs to stop immediately. Never an excuse for abuse. Otherwise, you can say I don't think so all you like. You say this last year totally changed....ahem...it's called a phase.
     
  20. Drew64

    Drew64 Member

    So you recommend she not go to school. Stay in her room and we just let it happen. We've been to a child psychologist and a psychiatrist. Both feel she needs intervention. I don't like giving kids medications either but sometimes it may help. Even had a counsler she dealt with during court part of this tat recently saw her again and said a short term stay somewhere may help. Yes these are her decisions but I will not have my daughter dictate what care she gets at this time. She's too immature to be making those decisions. She screamed one time for so long our neighbors called the cops. They came and calmed her down but that's not normal behavior.
     
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