She will never be normal, will she?

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by Stick a Fork in Me, Dec 16, 2009.

  1. 18 year old - smokes pot EVERY day. She's a senior in high school but I don't think she's going to graduate. She says she only goes for me and that she'd rather sleep in a park. I wish she would sleep in a park. I wouldn't shed a single tear. Since she became a daily (sometimes hourly) pot smoker she doesn't scream and yell as much, but she doesn't do ANYTHING. nothing. She sits in filth in her room and does nothing. They say mental and emotional development stops when they start smoking pot. Does this mean I'm going to be the mother of a teenaged bipolar ODD :censored2: for the rest of my life?

    I detest this human being that crawled out of my womb. DETEST. Which makes me the world's worst mother. I admit it. I am the worst mother in the world. All the private schooling and special programs and counseling and time spent and sacrifices were clearly inadequate. I did everything wrong because even heroin addicts and prostitutes don't produce children this vile. There is no way I can call this "human being" a gift from god. This is a curse. A punishment. For what, I don't know. I must have been hitler in a past life. Is mothering really this fragile that you can think you're doing everything you're supposed to do and they still come out monsters?

    Am I the only one who actually HATES their child?

    If you knew that THIS was what you were going to get, would you still have had them? I want to go back in time and rip out my uterus with a rusty spoon.

    And what is this BS I hear on tv and in books and from other people about the JOYS of parenting? Where is this "blessing?" Where is this great gift? Who are these people who love their children and think they're the best thing that ever happened in their lives? Are they INSANE?

    I want to know why God hates me so much that he gave me THIS. The idea that we're never tested beyond what we can handle is a load of **** because I cannot handle this. I still believe in god but I believe he's evil. No child was ever born who was more wanted, planned for, and dreamed of. And he gave me this fiend. I look forward to judgment day so I can stand before god and curse him for this. Burning in hell would be a relief after the last 18 years.

    I've lost my ability to be remotely civil to her. I don't know how to look at her without hate. She doesn't have any more ability to care for herself than a baby bird and I don't care. I want her gone. It took her 18 years to torture me to the point of hating her but she succeeded. Go figure. It's the only thing she's ever succeeded at.

    I spent last week with a friend who has a normal teenager. I wanted to die by the end of the week. It was torture to watch.
  2. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not

    Hey, there--

    Sounds like you need a vacation....a break....something to get you away from the situation for a while...

    I wish I knew what to say that would make it better....other than some days I feel like the world's worst mother, too.

    I'm so sorry that you are feeling so pained in your own home.

  3. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Hi, I think I responded to your first thread on general. These kids are tough. No one ever promised us easy or perfect kids. I dont think they even exist. I have three boys and even the easiest one has his challenges.

    When you describe your dtr as the pot smoker who wont do anything, I am reminded of the commercial that shows the guy in the cocoon that grows up around him like a huge bud of grass. Ever seen that one? I think its one of those parents against drugs or something like that. He goes into the cocoon as a teen and comes out as a middle aged man!

    Nah...I dont think so. My son was smoking pot and I just got tired of having to defend my house against him doing it here. I really didnt much care if he smoked it and I may be in the minority on that because it really did seem to help his bipolar when he smoked just a minor amount but I wasnt having it at my house. So, we had him leave. He got his own place and he is doing so much better.

    As far as your feelings about your child, well, I doubt you really feel hatred deep down. Hate is not the opposite of love, apathy is. There were times I hated my son too. It was because we were in a bitter tug of war against each other. When we finally stopped the fighting, our relationship became much better and we actually found the love that was there all along. I always loved him but I detested the things that he was doing. It wasnt that I hated him, I hated what he was doing but I just couldnt see it at the time. Kind of the forest for the trees thing.

    It may be that you are going to have to have your daughter move out in order to save any type of relationship you may have in the future. It may not be easy at first. She may hate you for doing that to her. So be it. One day she will thank you for making her grow up.
  4. jbrain

    jbrain Member

    I remember feeling intense feelings of hatred towards my difficult child 1 and wishing she'd never been born. I remember expressing those feelings to my husband (her stepdad) and he just listened. I did not feel it was a case of "loving her but not liking her." I felt I neither loved or liked her.

    I think you are going to have to get your difficult child out of the house. I made mine leave when she was 18 and not doing one thing to move forward. She wouldn't get a job, wouldn't go to school, wouldn't do anything to help in the house, etc. She had a do nothing boyfriend and they went to a homeless shelter in our town.

    She did improve once she was out of my house and had no other choice. She is 21 now and lives 3000 miles away from me on the other side of the country. We have a much improved relationship and I no longer have those feelings of hate towards her. I love her very much and even like her--but I have to keep my boundaries intact. I don't think she could ever live in my house again.

    Mainly I just wanted you to know I understand your feelings and I don't think you are a bad mom. I think you need a break, perhaps a permanent one.

  5. Mom2oddson

    Mom2oddson Active Member

    {{{{Hugs}}}} for your pain.

    Janet has a good point on Apathy being the opposite of Love, not hate. The depths of care for you child is what makes the pain so great. Maybe there is even some mourning of what could of been.

    I don't think there is a person on this board that hasn't felt like the worst parent at least a few times. I see my family counselor regularly just so that she can remind me that I am a good parent and did everything I could for my kids.

    Our kids are not easy. We pour our hearts and souls into them, into helping them, being there for them... and soemtimes if feels like we are wasting our efforts. But hang in there. Come here often and share...there is great help here. Work on detachment. That is so important. Since I've been able to detach from difficult child 1, I'm able to see his charm again. And, I'm able to disinguish between not liking his actions and loving him still. And I'm able to allow him to have the natural consequences for his actions. Like the fact that he is to have 24 hours of community service done by the end of December and he hasn't done one hour. So, when he ends up in jail from it....I'll bring him clean sock, underwear and maybe a pack of cigarettes. I'll visit, but I won't bail him out. And the best part... it doesn't upset me anymore.

    My heart goes out to you and the pain that you are in. Wish there was more I could do to help....
  6. Fran

    Fran Former Site Owner

    It sounds like you need a break, big time. I can say that there are periods when I felt pretty low.
    The healthiest thing now is to separate from each other. She is 18. Is there any relative who would take her on for 6 months?
    There are a few things I was thinking you could do if there is no one who will take her.
    1) Next time she is smoking pot, call the police. They have to take her out. Don't bail her out. Everytime she lights up, call the police.

    2) Check with her doctor about her medications. She may need something tweeked.

    3)At some point, you may have to put all of her clothes in garbage bags and leave them on the porch. Don't let her back in. Have the locks changed. One of our past members did that. The difficult child is a functioning adult who is married and has a career.

    4) Does she have any aspirations of a career? Maybe if she gets a GED she can get moving towards some sort of training.

    5) Give her a one way bus ticket and a ride to bus station to her bio father's house.

    6)Look for support groups of parents with difficult kids. I'm thinking parents of adolescent bipolar. There may even be a group who is for the ODD child.

    7) Get help for you. Carrying that degree of bitterness will hurt you. Get therapy, get friends, get away from her.

    Now, I have no experience with drugs, police or taking them away from their home so take this all with a grain of salt. It was the first things I thought of when I read through is.

    Your exhaustion is obvious. You are drained physically, emotionally and spiritually. You gave her 18 yrs, if you have nothing left to give then cut her loose.
  7. Suz

    Suz (the future) MRS. GERE


    Have the school authorities contacted you yet about her absenteeism or does her age excuse her from that formality?

    Is there an alternative education program or a GED program available to her?

    If she is openly smoking pot, I expect there are other things that she is doing privately. When is the last time you tossed her room from head to toe?

    My ex and I were very clear that we would not tolerate drugs in our home. It was a line in the sand that we were prepared to protect. We had our son arrested for drug paraphernalia. That was only the tip of the iceberg but it was a start.

    I went through some really bad years with my son so I understand your rage and your pain. During that time I sought medication and counseling to help me through the day/week/year. I took up painting as a hobby. I nurtured my relationships with friends so I had places to go and people to see outside of my home. I found this board to vent on.

    What are you doing for you?

    (Fran- how funny- we were posting at the same time with many similar thoughts)

  8. Star*

    Star* call 911


    You know, I didn't really read very well anyone answers to you because I have a slightly different thought and I'll do my best to explain - please no shock and awe hate mail.

    I very much get where you are at. There were times when I wondered why God hated me so much, I cursed the (and I say this almost with nasty malcontent attitude and quoted air fingers) "You never get any more than you can handle crud." - Okay first of all that is probably one of the most mis-quoted, para-phrased, passages in the Bible. So keeping that in mind - There are a lot of things in life that we just have no idea about. Strength or otherwise so if you can first of all rise above the idea that God is sitting up in heaven tossing darts at our life-board going "Ah today I shall make SAFIM so miserable by giving her a child she will never be able to handle mwah ha ha. And then? I shall make that child smoke pot. BWAH HA HA."

    Yeah - see? No such thing going on. Free will? Yeah now there's a thing that is really happening. Your child making horrible choices? Ewwwww yeah. (exhale). Roll eyes. Still angry with God? Still think he was standing on the assembly line and when your daughter rolled off he said "Stamp THAT one - defective and put her in SAFIM's womb....she needs a miserable brat - and that one will do." (and then laughed like Dr. Evil) - um....not likely. However....What I have come to believe after years of being so pancake flipping angry with the Almighty about my life? I'm really unique, I'm really tough, I'm built a little differently than a lot of other people I know, and I'm not just a survivor - I'm an overcomer. Not just with my kid - my whole life. And I have a choice. I've had free will my entire life - it just took me most of it to figure out - I HAVE FREE WILL...I CAN CHOOSE...

    I can choose to live with a child that makes me so miserable that I say things that are so ugly and miserable I don't even care that I say them. The bad thing about that is - most of the time when you get to that point? You really think you mean them, and you will snap at others and say "Oh I don't think it, I mean it - If he or she were dead I wouldn't care, it would be a relief." When you get to that point? The rest of us who have really overcome a lot (like all the lovely ladies above) will come forward and say "You need a break." What may go through YOUR head when you read those words of wisdom at this point is "I'll tell YOU what I'd like to break." and dismiss great advice for more anger.

    The Bi%^h about anger? Once it grabs you? It doesn't like to let go. It's happy making you very unhappy. It's very content living in your home, watching you be miserable, sullen, depressed, making comments like you have been, not being able to be around anyone who has children who are successful - that's another emotion - not jealousy; that's envy. Envy is another emotion that likes to live with anger. Their almost like twins. Both live to see you be at the bottom of the barrel, scraping by, barely existing - sad as can be- angry at the world, hating, loathing....wishing your kids would just disappear instead of figuring out how to take little Hitler and tell her that there are going to be some changes in little Germany or she's going to have to find a new Berlin.

    Anger, and Envy would be more accomplished if you never found a way to take control over your life/home/child ever again. See the thing is - right now? The focus has to be on Y-O-U. Not necessarily on your daughter. Rushing into her room and yelling "Okay today I'm the boss and you will...blah blah blah......" is going to get you that deer in the head light look, then laughter, then 'yeah right witch' and a screaming "GET OUT OF MY ROOM." and possibly a door slam. To which you feel defeated, undermined and belittled. IN YOUR OWN waffle tossin' home. I mean after all whose bloody walls and electricity are they? And who says you HAVE to do anything?

    So what needs to happen for you? Ah....are you willing to do anything for you first and let her just go by the way side for a while and ignore her? If nothing else???? This could be the start of "HOW I LEARNED TO DETACH 101." YOU would NOT have come here and picked out such a cute name (stab me with a fork) lol - if you did NOT want some kind of help - so KUDOS to you Sister....I mean way to GO.....BRAVE MOVE since you are living in the house with the female Antichrist....(and we'll work on that too) you'll have to find a nicer acronym for her....she can be .....hmmmmm you're the fork.....she can be the DISH that ran away with the spoon....Get it.....or she can be just the DISH....Or Spoongirl.....or Spooney..I dunno but we have to find her a better name than Memnoch. :faint: How about LEGNA? She's really and ANGEL - just a little backwards? (spell angel backwards?)
    I dunno - she's your kid - there were days when my son Dude - was Assteroid boy....or just (well I can't put that here)

    I applaud you very much for having the courage to seek us out. This IS a really knowledgeable, wonderful, heartfelt, NO B.S. group of women who will not cut you slack....we will hug you when you hurt, but our kids - all our kids have led us down thorny paths. You wanted to know if they ever will be normal?

    Well I think to a certain extent they can be. But YOU have to mature and learn how to parent them differently. SO the first thing is to get yourself into some good therapy and not worry so much about what she is doing right now. You ABSOLUTELY NEED a good #$*TCHING buddy....not a family member, or a girlfriend - they WILL.NOT.UNDERSTAND YOU...and your FAMILY PROBLEMS. What you need is a trained therapist that can come back at you with SOLID ADVICE that is particular to your families unique set of dynamics and problems and work on it from the inside out a layer at a time. You said so yourself - it took 18 get this way - it will take another 18 to undo it. If that's the case? And you end up being the only one that is committed to working on getting better? Then do it. You'll learn from a professional HOW to deal with things IF it becomes a reality that she DOES sleep in the park...if she DOES....things that are worse later in life.

    I buried my adopted son in February this year. He was a wonderful, bright, loving child of 18 years. I loved him with all my heart. He became the big brother to natural son after his big brother died 8 years ago; another wonderful kid of only 19 years old. I can promise you this. You can say all the things you have said about not caring if they're around, and thinking you mean it until you can't see them to say goodbye. The child we buried this Spring was burned alive in his car. The other boy died as a result of bullriding. You never know when you're going to have the last chance to tell them you love them....and without getting all weepy and mushy - I do understand the anger, but maybe it's time to tell The Almighty you're angry instead of waiting until you're standing in line.....that could be a long long time - besides he already knows you're angry. He's just waiting for you to tell him. Then just go in and maybe do something that you haven't tried in a long time. Just go tell your daughter you love her more than anything in the world. You really have nothing to've tried everything else and it hasn't worked.

    Sometimes the oddest advice, you know? And if that doesn't work? I have a fork for you. :tongue:

    Hugs - huge ones.

    I sure hope you come back and join us....there is no shame here. Besides we need to know what you nick name your daughter. I'm betting on little angel. ;)
  9. CrazyinVA

    CrazyinVA Well-Known Member Staff Member

    You are not a bad parent. You are fed up, exhausted, and feeling defeated. I know the feelings all too well.

    Others have made some good suggestions. I agree that you need a break. Think about what you can do today, to get through today/tonight. Put the future in the back of your mind right now, it's just too overwhelming to think about. Once you get through today and feel even slightly less overwhelmed, make a plan for the "next time" .. and so on, and so forth. I found that simply deciding what I would do "x" if "y" happened.. made me feel better, or at least, more able to cope with what was in front of me.

    None of us had dreams of raising ungrateful, lazy, drug-addicted, hygiene-challenged, unemployed, irresponsible, crazy (no offense, it's my favorite term) children. All of us know what it's like to be faced with the reality of all of that, and we've all had days where we felt absolutely despondent, angry and resentful over it. It HOOVERS.

    You are not alone. I hope that is of some tiny comfort. Hugs to you.
  10. CrazyinVA

    CrazyinVA Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Wow.. Star? Your post .. well let's just say I'm proud to know you, woman ;-)
  11. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    While you may be right that she will never change, my gut says that 18 years old is too young to make that determination when you know that they know right from wrong. My son used to tell me that he was going to grow up to be a male prostitute and live on the street. He's since changed his mind. He's still a little different, and way behind socially and economically than most. But he has a vision for himself. It's a start.

    My daughter, on the other hand, isn't ever going to change. I'm sure of it. There is nothing she wouldn't expect us to indulger her in. There is never a time she doesn't overly resent us for doing what we want rather than what she wants. It's come to me in the past few months that she really isn't ever going to change. I knew that logically years ago. But I didn't know it in my heart until recently. It's actually sort of a relief. We don't have to worry anymore about what we can do to help her be a better person, because she's just not ever going to be a better person.

    It's another step towards being my own person again.
  12. Bean

    Bean Member

    Thank you for posting this; I needed it. The initial posts and the responses.

    Fork, a little over a week ago my husband and I were venting to each other about the fantasy of living in another country where, when your children shamed themselves and you so painfully you could shoot them. It was a vent, and not serious, but it was so obvious how terrible we were feeling at the moment. So I know how you feel, sister. I do.

    I'm guessing that, though we have a whole lot of difficult children to talk about here, there really is a pretty solid group of decent parents. We probably wouldn't be here if we didn't care anymore. We'd have kicked them out, washed our hands and not looked back. We are here so we can enable our souls to deal with the pain we are feeling, but to also keep our hearts open (albeit guarded) for their return, to keep us functional for our spouses, other children, friends - for ourselves.

    I've spent so many years trying to advocate, support, aid, love, help. It is easy to lose yourself in the process. I found myself a wonderful local parent advocate group in the process (and a friend who understands). As much as I seek the community to "fix" things for me, the only real change I can make is in myself. I'm working on it, slowly. And concentrating on what most people who have "been there done that" say - keep loving them, be firm, take care of yourself and, me personally, I continue to pray and hand things over to God, seeking wisdom, peace and forgiveness.

    Please make a goal to pick something to do for you in the next day. A movie, a dinner, a relief from a duty you would normally do. It really is important.
  13. Wow this really is a pretty amazing place.

    I said things today in that post that I'm afraid to usually THINK out loud. To say them was cathartic but kind of terrifying and literally made me sick. As in running to the bathroom after hitting "submit."

    I came back expecting to be chastised. I can't believe the thoughtfulness and care you all express.

    Thank you so much.

    It's true - I've completely stopped taking care of myself and mostly live in an airless moment, waiting for the next wind to blow from her.

    I haven't seen a therapist in a while, but my old therapist was fabulous and kept telling me that "She's writing her own story - you're only a small chapter in it so stop making her the center of yours. Go live your life the best you can and the example will be the best thing you can offer her."

    I think her 18th birthday was an unexpectedly terrifying event for me. It's like "OK time's up - how did you do, mom?" I know that's not true, time is never up for a parent, but I still feel like such an utter failure at the one thing in my life that was the most important. I don't know how to let go of the idea that I'm to blame for this. Something I did or didn't do...

    Which means of course I'm thinking more about myself than about her (and not in a productive way), which isn't going to get anybody anywhere anyway.

    I'm mourning the loss of my baby and the loss of my dreams. I can't get a new baby at this point! So I'll have to get new dreams.

    Yeah, I need to still work on that detachment thing, don't I. Somebody cut the umbilical for me, please. I think it's starting to rot.

    The nickname I use for her when talking to my husband is "The Spawn."

    Not sure if I should use that one here, LOL.
  14. Bean

    Bean Member

    Totally understand that.

    I guess I was blessed by the fact that the last 9 months of her "childhood" went like this:

    Run away
    Inpatient tx (4 mos.)
    My parent's for 5 weeks (really hard to tell her she couldn't come home, but HAD to do it for us, for her, for our other kids)
    Jail until she was 18 (about 4 weeks)
    Group home for adult offenders (4 months)
    Parent's house (present)

    Through this, I had much grieving and adjustment. I mourned for the loss of things not going the "normal" way. For her not leaving our house under good terms, welcome to come back anytime. For the dreams of who I thought she'd be. For the reality that I'm living.

    I think, though, that it was good. I could have had her home and still could. But it would have been to the detriment of everyone in our house. It wasn't until just recently things felt like a home instead of a prison here. The tension is gone, the fear of having to hide everything is gone. The instability is gone. And I've been able to begin detaching in a way I know I could not have done if she were still here.

    It might take you booting her out for you to begin that process, too, I don't know. But I know that it is difficult and scary, and an emotional roller coaster.
  15. You've really been through it, bean. I'm so sorry.

    I booted the spawn when she was 14 and sent her to live with her dad for a year and a half. She kept complaining that her stepmother was abusive but I ignored her (boy who cried wolf syndrome). Then the stepmother's own cousin called me and advised me to get my daughter out of there because her cousin was being emotionally and physically abusive and she couldn't bear to see it any more.

    I still feel like s*** for that one.

    She actually did better for a short time here and we were able to get her into a credit recovery program to regain her lost school units (failed every class while living with her dad). Now she's in an independent study program and only has to go in once a week. Her grades are OK but it takes a lot of nagging to get her work done and they pretty much spoonfeed school to these kids.

    I feel this obligation to get her through school. Once that's done (or if she drops out) she can take off and live in the park if that makes her happy.
  16. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Oh sweetie. I think all parents look at kids when they hit that magic 18th birthday and is now grown and look how they are now. Some are better than we expected and some are not as far along as we expected. I celebrated my youngest sons 18th birthday with sparklers and champagne because it meant that I was no longer legally responsible for He thought I was happy for him! was happy for me!

    My son put me through sheer hell while he was a teen. It wasnt any better after he turned 18 either. It took me until it became damaging to our health and he was just so out of control...and he stole money from us and I ended up filing charges against him that we finally kicked him out. Oddly enough, that is what ended up turning him around. He doesnt hate me for that. He carries three felony convictions because of what he did to us but he knows he did it and I had to do what I did. It took him a little while to own up to his responsibility but he has.

    We really had some knock down drag out fights in the last year he lived here. It was bad. The best thing we ever did was have him move out. We didnt really just kick him out. We helped him find a place and had him go.

    Now we do have a good relationship because we dont have to be involved in day to day activities. He had us over for Thanksgiving this year with a few other people and it was something I would have never thought possible just a few short years ago. They can change.
  17. Suz

    Suz (the future) MRS. GERE

    First off, pour yourself a glass of wine. If you haven't done so already, I would suggest that you read our archives for some additional insight. Here's the link:

    Also, click on the link in my signature that's labeled "Detachment article" for another good read.

    Suz :wine:
  18. Star*

    Star* call 911

    I like Suz' idea - except in my personal life I poured an entire 2 bottles of tequila gold....:tongue:* hick* - and then I shaid...."oh my GOD pull over...and shcomeone hold my hair *hick* OH that's really ===toilet is .....thunk....then I thought.....WOW tat ish a dirty dirty toilet. :sick:

    And that was the last time I every drank.

    The end.

    How about Winger? She has wings? :angel3:
  19. Suz - thanks for that amazing article. Talk about hitting the target dead center.
  20. Star*

    Star* call 911

    Biggest claim to fame thus far? I've never been to the state Bed & Breakfast or had my shoestrings taken from me :D AND

    I've avoided the men in their nice white coats....for years. :surprise: