19 year old daughter OUT OF CONTROL - stole $, IRS froze bank account

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by NewYorkMom, Mar 5, 2015.

  1. NewYorkMom

    NewYorkMom New Member

    Hello everyone. I'm a brand new member here and I'm looking for some people to talk to about the situation I'm currently going through with my 19 year old lying, stealing, out of control daughter. I have always had problems with my younger daughter but over the past few years it's gotten out of control. Me and my younger daughter have never gotten along. I have a great relationship with my older daughter but the younger one is a completely different story. She's just not a good person and and is an extremely deceitful and conniving, terrible human being. Always had a problem with authority - used to get calls from school she would threaten teachers, principals, etc. She also has a long history of lying about everything, used to cut school constantly (she dropped out in 10th grade by the way) and has gotten into many fistfights. Her father has never been involved in her life and she resents me for it. I can count on one hand the amount of times they've met. No desire to be in her life. We fight about that constantly among other things.

    Things started getting worse about 6 years ago when we moved from New York to new jersey. She resents me for it. Says I've ruined her life, taken her away from her friends, moved her into a white trash redneck dump...ever since then we've grown even further apart and we fight constantly. Since moving to jersey she's been in countless fistfights, dropped out of school in 10th grade, she even punched me in the face almost 2 years ago...she was arrested and put on probation and stayed in jail for one night. Had to pay a fine but the judge only gave her a disorderly conduct charge. She laughs about it and tells me I deserved it, says she would do it again. She curses at me, screams and yells at me, punches holes in the walls, threw a drink at me a few weeks ago and laughed about it. My daughter is also very lazy and has no work ethic. Sleeps all day. Goes to bed at 4,5,6,7 in the morning. She hasn't had a job since July of 2014 and all she does is party and goes out for days without calling. She also constantly has money and I have no idea how. The other day she came in with bags of brand new clothes. Asked her where does someone with no job get $$ to buy clothes. Told me to go f*ck myself. She is a nightmare.

    However, she does have some goals. Even though she dropped out of school she's currently trying to get her GED. She applies to jobs but it's hard for her to find one because she has no diploma. She also quit the last job she had and then gets mad that she doesn't have one and hasn't had a job since last summer. She's had about 4 or 5 jobs in total! Most 19 year olds have only had one or two - and she quit all of them!! Again, no work ethic. Says job gets "boring". She wants to move back to New York and go to cosmetology school. Never wants to see my "fat face" among other words, again.

    I must admit that I'm at fault for a lot of the fights as well. I have serious anger issues and am currently on antidepressants (which my darling daughter has stolen from me before by the way) and I've hit her too which I know is wrong but she drives me crazy.

    Anyway, I've written a lot and now I should get to the main point of this thread. Recently I was going to take my older daughter + my two grandchildren out to dinner. Had heart attack when I was told my account was frozen by IRS. My younger daughter tried to purchase a cell phone online because she wanted to go to New York to meet a boy - however we live in a very rural part of jersey and we're about 4 hours away. Says she needed a phone so she could get in touch with him when she was going to New York. Anyway for some reason or another she somehow alerted my bank and the charge didn't go through and is only listed as "pending". Long story short, IRS tried to get money from my account because I've been paying them in installments. However the pending charge for the cell phone made IRS unable to get the money they needed. It's very confusing. IRS froze my account and I have to go to the office later today to see what can be done.

    Besides everything I've mentioned theres so many other problems. Someone please help me. I don't know what to do. Should I press charges? Kick her out? I'm going crazy! Help!
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2015
  2. pasajes4

    pasajes4 Well-Known Member

    Welcome to the board. You are not alone. She is legally an adult. You do not have to let her live with you. It is a difficult decision. When you are up to it, and feel like you want to, include a signature. Does she have any mental health issues? I don't know if you can press charges about the bank account. If you choose to kick her out, you need to check on the eviction process in your state.:group-hug:
  3. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Hi there. I'm sorry for your trouble with your daughter. Please take a deep breath and calm down as you can't change what has already happened. All you can do is clear your head and think about the future. I can't tell you what to do, except I do think it's time you start taking care of yourself. You gave her nineteen years and she did not learn anything from you. I'm sure you did not teach her to steal. If she took your antidepressants, well, kids take wacky drugs. Maybe she doesn't know they don't get you high so she thinks she can get money on the street. I would, by what you have said, suspect she is using some sort of drug beyond just pot. I also think she might have a dangerous personality disorder known as antisocial personality disorder. These people are kind of born without a conscience (saw some good stuff on this...scientific studies and brain images on Investigative Discovery). They are dangerous people and even if they are our beloved children, in my opinion, usually best left alone. They will steal you blind for their gain, even if you are a mother, father, brother, best friend, doesn't matter. They are only interested in their own gain and do not feel guilty. I don't know if I'm right, but it's something to look up on the internet and read about because they usually do not think there is anything wrong with them and are quite happy being this way and do not change, but they do get bolder and pull all kinds of stuff, like what your daughter did to you. She wants something so she threw you under the bus.

    I can not tell you what to do. There are many options. One is to keep thing as they are. I'm going to tell you only what I would do, if it were me, knowoing that you are NOT me. I do have a son who used to con and scam, but not me!!!! At any rate, he doesn't do it anymore, but he is darn lucky I didn't find out when he was actively doing it. He did steal from us by memorizing his father's credit card numbers. And I have a daughter who once took drugs, so I sort of recognize druggie behavior as well. Without further ado this is what I'd do because to me my home is my sanctuary and my castle and I don't feel I should have to be afraid of another adult in my own home.

    I would press charges, but having typed that, I would probably not be able to do it without hesitating "She'll hate me forever." Well, she is already saying so and chances aer she does not realy understand love or boundaries anyway. I would pack her bags. I wouldn't have any qualms about that. You try to hurt me, no matter who you are, you can not live with me. Yes, we all made mistakes, but she really crossed the line by stealing from you like that. You can't settle anything without getting her out so you can clear your head. Once I made her leave, minding the tenant laws of my area, I'd changed my locks, credit cards, bank account #, anything she could possibly have a copy of.

    You desperately need therapy too. You can't solve anything by hitting people, but you already know that. From now on, walk away, walk away, walk away. If it were me, I'd go low contact to no contact with this particular daughter. If you are paying for her phone or car or anything stop. She took money from you. Let her pay for things herself. If this were me,a nd I know you're not me, she'd be out. I feel she is dangerous to you.

    It's time to start caring about yourself first. You raised her to adulthood and she keeps making poor choices. If it were me, I'd let her try things herself. What she did was vicious. My advice is to protect yourself against her and any further damage. This is not just a difficult kid. This one shows a total lack of feelings or regard for others and you are fair game.

    Of course, this is just my opinion and what I would do.

    I am sorry you had to join us, but I'm glad you did. Try to get the ball rolling on taking care of YOU from now on. Hugs for your hurting heart!!! Is there a dad somewhere who can take her off your hands? That's one solution. I'd still press charges.
  4. 2much2recover

    2much2recover Well-Known Member

    I think the ONLY way you are going to UN-tangle the mess with the IRS is to press charges. Then once she is arrested have her address changed, and change the locks and then do not let her back in the house.
    I just posted this on another thread so I hope you too, find it helpful: "
    I suggest getting credit freeze on your credit. : http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0497-credit-freeze-faqs#place which is not one of those expensive credit monitoring service - it just gives you a pin number so only you can open credit in your name."

    Read more: http://www.conductdisorders.com/community/threads/liar.59874/#ixzz3TWBqPL4Z
  5. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    One last thing, but important. You posted in "General" which is basically for parents of minor children. You probably should post over at Parent Emeritus where we all have adult children over eighteen and we get the options you have that parents of minors don't have. There's a great community over there, but they may not see your post since it is in a different forum.
  6. CrazyinVA

    CrazyinVA Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Welcome, NY Mom. Glad you’re here. If you look through the threads on this Parents Emeritus board, you’ll see many stories similar to your own – I hope that brings you some small comfort. You’re definitely not alone!

    I hope you can get to the bottom of the IRS issue and get your account unfrozen quickly. You don’t mention how your daughter was able to use your account – did you give her permission to access it (even previously), or did she steal your information and do it without your permission? If it’s the latter, it’s a pretty serious issue. As MWM mentions, you may want to think about pressing charges – or at the very least contact your bank and deny the pending charges for the cell phone. If you didn’t authorize those charges, you have every right to ask that they reverse them/cancel the pending transaction.

    As an aside, if she really wants a cell phone, she can get one of those cheap track phones at plenty of places – convenience stores, drug stores, etc. She doesn’t even need to involve you, that’s on her.

    I understand, too, how these kids can drive you crazy yourself – to the point where you become out of control and fight back. Anti-depressants are a good start, I’m of the belief that taking medication alone is not much use if you’re not also getting counseling to address the underlying issues. I hope you have someone you can talk to.

    I do think it’s time to think about getting your daughter out of the house. Check the local laws to see if you can legally evict her. At the very least, I’d think about putting down a hard line when it comes to the physical violence – if she hits you, throws things at you, or damages your property, call 911.

    At the top of this board is a thread called “Article on Detachment” – I would definitely take some time to read through that. Detachment is something we’ve all had to learn to practice when it comes to dealing with our difficult kids. We have to take care of ourselves first and foremost, and not let them control our lives.

    Keep us posted!
  7. DoneDad

    DoneDad Active Member

    I'm on my iPad so I can't type a lot, but this situation is literally killing you. You say you had a heart attack when you found out about her trying to steal from your bank account and the repercussions of that with the IRS.

    You've got to detach from your daughter. 2much2recover and MWM have the game plan. Press charges and change the locks. You say she has assaulted you. Get a restraining order in place. You are being abused. Your life is in danger. She has thrown your finances into chaos. You don't deserve this.

    I know calling the police on your own child is hard - we did it when Difficult Child daughter moved out at 19 and she and the idiot loser she was with at the time (there have been a lot of them) were breaking into our house and stealing from us. Looking back, I think, "what choice did we have?" We could have kept being victimized, or we could stop it. Those are also your choices. Either put up with it or put a stop to it. Your daughter is not going to change the situation. She likes it the way it is. You need to make a change.

    People here are a great help in this process. I know how alone this kind of situation makes you feel. Keep posting.
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  8. Jabberwockey

    Jabberwockey Well-Known Member

    And this is the truth. As odd as it may seem, our difficult children don't want their situation to change. They want us to provide for them so they can continue to live life without responsibility. She WONT change it so you will have to and it will be difficult. We've had to kick our son out for stealing from us, lying to us, and doing drugs in the house.

    I greatly value MWM's opinion. She is a very strong woman who has dealt with a lot of adversity in her life and came out the better for it. I personally believe that she is a bit quick to jump on the "they're doing serious drugs" band wagon. Having said that, from what you have said about your daughter, MWM is right. Your daughter is doing drugs and probably something more potent than just pot. She is also either stealing or dealing. No job yet she always seems to have spending money and comes home with a bunch of new cloths?? HUGE warning flag.

    I don't know your full situation but based on what you have said here, you not only need to distance yourself from her, you need to get yourself help as well. Not even factoring in your admission of personal anger management issues, going through something like this by yourself is almost impossible. My wife and I have family to talk to if we need support or advice and many on here advocate for counseling or support groups. Pick one or multiple, whatever you feel most comfortable with but get help.

    Just so you know, there are a couple of saying that float around this board on a regular basis and are good things to remember. First is "Not my circus, not my monkey" meaning that the problems and drama of our difficult children is just that, THEIRS! Just because you are the parent doesn't mean you're obligated to be in the middle of it. The other is "Take what you need and ignore the rest". Many of us have very similar circumstances, many of us don't. Even if your situation is almost identical to someone else's, you and your Difficult Child aren't the same people so may react differently. Take the advice that sounds good to you and ignore what doesn't, its that simple. Even if you don't want anyone's advice this is still a great place to come for support! Sucks that you have to be here but Welcome to our crazy little corner of the Internet!
  9. Scent of Cedar *

    Scent of Cedar * Well-Known Member

    My daughter's father and I were married before I became pregnant. He has been in her life in every way from the moment of her birth ~ was even there for the birth. We are still married, 43 years later. He worked, I was the mom at home. There were all kinds of perks and family and etc. And yet, you could have been describing our daughter, when you described your own.

    I am sorry this is happening to you.

    You do not deserve to be treated this way. No one deserves to be treated this way.

    Research posted here for us by moms on this site indicates there is a genetic component to personality.

    You did nothing wrong.

    Your child displays many of the characteristic behaviors of what we call difficult child (Gift From God) or differently wired, kids.

    The divorce, the presence or lack of a father, religious upbringing or atheist ~ none of that seems to matter. As you read with us, you will find every kind of parenting represented, here on the site.

    The one thing we all have in common is that, however well or badly we raised our children, there are those kids who are "differently wired", as one of our moms describes it, from birth.

    This is an important thing for us to know. It is a very hard thing, to love a self-destructing, differently wired child.

    And yet, we do.

    And loving them destroys us. All of us, each of us, every time.

    There are two questions, here: How to help our children and how to recover ourselves.

    What we are learning, here on the site, is that the answer to both questions may be the same thing. There is a theory of parenting specific to differently wired, or difficult child (Gift From God) kids. The theory is called detachment parenting. I would say that each of the parents here on the site is in some version of learning to be comfortable with detachment parenting. It is counter-intuitive parenting...but it actually does seem to help some difficult child kids.

    Detachment parenting definitely helps parents establish loving boundaries between themselves and their difficult child kids. The boundaries from the parent's side will be loving. difficult child kids hate and resent us whether we help them, destroying ourselves and our lives in the endless process of trying to get them on their feet, or not.

    Expect your daughter's behaviors to escalate when you stand up to her.

    That is what difficult child children do, whether they are 19, like your daughter, or 39.

    Then it is time for things to change. Thank Heaven you are here.

    When our kids behave this way, we are so appalled, we feel so guilty, we live day in day out and every long night with such deep regret that we forget we hold all the cards.

    Sweet girl.

    Is she using and selling drugs?

    More importantly, is she using and selling and storing drugs in your house?

    I am so sorry. No mother should hear such things from the child she birthed.

    I am so glad you found us.

    We have been where you are.


    That is debatable. We will go to great lengths to save our children from themselves.

    There is no one who could take the kinds of abuse our kids dish out without responding in a way that escalates the violence ~ especially when the child's behaviors are putting him or her at risk and we are trying to save them from themselves.

    We become desperate, and desperate people do desperate things ~ things they never imagined themselves doing.


    But you probably will not be able to. I never wanted my kids to have legal problems to cope with on top of everything else that was going wrong.


    This, you can and should do.

    Change the locks. Don't let her in. Call the police when she does come.

    She is not the boss of you.

    I am sorry for the hurt of it. The others are right. This child is dangerously out of control and has no compunctions about abusing you. The longer this situation continues, the worse it will likely get.

    There was a mom who posted here some time ago whose child had put her in Intensive Care with a brain bleed.

    I believe the child was in his late twenties when that happened.

    She still took him back.

    And he continued to abuse and disrespect her and play her with a finesse unimaginable.

    When she was able to get him out of her house, she began to be able to see her reality differently.

    And she began to reclaim her life.

    We have all heard the stories of those parents whose children dominate and abuse them well into old age.

    You don't want that to be your story.


    If you are not comfortable with putting your child on the streets, would it be possible to rent a room for a specified time with a clear end date? Say, a month or even, three or six months? It could be that once she is away from home and understands she is on her own, her attitude will change and she will stand up. If it doesn't, and if she does not keep a job, that is on her. You will have had those months to regroup, and to remember that birthing and raising this child does not entitle her to your self respect, or to your life.

    However tough we may talk sometimes, in the real world, there is that place in our hearts where we just cannot turn our children away with nothing.

    Get her out of your house however you can do it.

    I think there is no other solution.


    What you will learn, here with us, is how to survive the hurtful, outrageous things life with a difficult child child revolves around. It isn't easy, and it isn't pleasant, but it can be done.

    Welcome, New York Mom.

    You have been alone with this for a long time.

    Now, you have all of us.

    The site is anonymous. The more often you post, the more you will see yourself in our stories. You are not the only parent in this position. It is shocking how many of us there are. We all have had to become very strong.

    You will, too.

    But we are right here, and we have been where you are.

  10. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    There are also some of us, Cedar, who feel it is a kindness to put them out and make them face the world alone. When they are so dangerous we are afraid of them, I feel they need total shock and awe. Many survive quite well as they are able to con and swindle others they find along the path.

    I had no trouble calling the cops on fifteen year old Princess and her pot. I felt I had to do something to try to stop her or to get help. It didn't work, but I was more concerned with her life and whether she even had a future (or would die) than if she had a police blight on her record. If you change and survive, you can get help getting a chance, even if you have a felony on your record. Once you're dead, that's the end of your chances at least in this world. I always felt it was more abusive to let things go. And both of my kids DID change somewhat. Princess, of course, is doing excellent and Bart only so-so, but I shudder to think of what Bart would have been like if he would have stolen from me and I'd let him. He knew I'd call the cops on him. I was never his victim.

    It really isn't all that hard to take action when you are in danger or if you feel that being lenient is worse than going all out.

    I am against paying rent for our trouble lovies. They could have stayed at home if they'd followed simple rules such as no drugs in the house, don't hit me, get a job. I feel that if they don't do it in our house, why will they do it in a rental house on our dime? I have yet to hear from any parent who tried it that it has worked. The usual theme is that the adult child has trashed the house, brought in questionable "roommates" and gotten tossed out for bad behavior or not changed their behavior at all.

    Until we cut the strings, in my opinion most of our adult difficult kids have no chance at all. They depend on us to be suckers enough to fund them while they break the law, slack, use drugs, end up in jail etc.

    So my advice, which is contrary to some others here, is not to rent her anything. She is conniving and will be very good at coudh surfing until her new "friends" find out what she's like and throw her out. Then she will find another victim.

    I respect everyone's views here. Take what you like from us and leave the rest. We are all only offering our own opinion, including me.
  11. Jabberwockey

    Jabberwockey Well-Known Member

    Yeah, I've definitely learned my lesson on that one! Although the rental was more to give Lil peace of mind that to give our son help. Yes, we hoped he would take advantage of it and must admit that it shocked me a bit how quickly he lost his job and didn't even attempt to pay rent. I figured he would pay the first month or two then find excuses to stop. Like I said, lesson learned and it will never happen again.

    Actually its about time for me to hassle him a bit about signing up for the government phone program as his WILL be getting cut off in June. Considering how long and what it took for him to finally get signed up for food stamps I don't see him doing it without Lil holding his hand through it.

    So yeah, the really need to be allowed to fall on their faces in order to learn anything. Granted, that is for each parent to decide based on how their children act but I haven't really seen a parent yet that came to this board that had a child that would learn without it going that far. That's the reason we came here!
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  12. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Jabs, haha, I've been on this board for so long I just knew in advance it was going to be a wash. I've never heard of this working. If they still need us to support them, they haven't gotten it together yet and the mentality isn't there. When they start moving in "friends"...well, they all seem to do that and it just causes more trouble. At least your son hasn't trashed the apartment. That's Part Three (or getting thrown out for wild and crazy parties). I mean, I get it. People hope they'll give their kids a hand up and they'll be grateful for the chance and take advantage of it, but again I don't recall anytime it has ever worked. This scenario plus the trashing the place is the most common. They either don't see the future, don't do anything about the future, or think that when it comes right down to it, you'll still pay for them. But I think it's more in the middle. They think "I'll worry about it when I have to" and toke on. Or shoot up on. Or whatever they are doing that is contributing to the puzzling lack of motivation.We rarely know how much garbage our kids ae putting into their bodies. In a way, it doesn't matter.
  13. DoneDad

    DoneDad Active Member

    This is another reason that you need to get her out of your environment sooner rather than later. You could be the one ending up in jail with a domestic violence charge. They know how to manipulate the system. Your situation sounds very dire on a lot of levels. You need help - the New Jersey Domestic Violence Hotline is 1 (800) 572-SAFE (7233).

    I hate to say it, but there are ways for 19 year old girls to get money and bags of new clothes other than drugs. If she is involved in the escort/prostitution/sugar-daddy world, you could end up with some very dangerous people coming around your house.

    You need to get her out. Not so she can learn a lesson (she might or might not). You need to protect yourself.
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  14. Jabberwockey

    Jabberwockey Well-Known Member

    I never held out any significant hope that this would work. As I said, it was more for Lil's peace of mind than anything. As far as trashing the place goes, I don't expect that to happen. He is trying not to alienate Lil and I would be willing to bet that he KNOWS that I will press charges if he trashes the place! For the life of me though, I don't understand how three or four people can "Live", and I use this term loosely, in an apartment that is smaller than three work cubicles?!?!?!?!
  15. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Who knows...lol. If I was paying for that apartment, the other freeloaders would be gone or the rent would stop, but I know LIl isn't there yet. We all have to talk our own walks, one step at a time. That includes our children who don't seem to understand what "adult" means unless you try to give them a curfew!!!!
  16. Jabberwockey

    Jabberwockey Well-Known Member

    Honestly MWM, I would have already discussed that with her if it weren't for the fact that I had to co-sign in order for him to be able to get a place. I had more work experience before I turned 17 than he has now. He has no credit built up. Love the saying "First thing you do when you realize your in a hole is stop digging!". Well, our clueless son refuses to acknowledge that he's in a hole, except for when he want to throw it in our faces to try and hurt us anyway.
  17. Lil

    Lil Well-Known Member

    It has nothing to do with being nice or something...we're not going to hurt our own credit or get sued over $285/mo.

    I agree with the others who would kick her out. She apparently does quite well on her own, since she goes out for days without calling. She could very well just stay out. You do NOT have to put up with name calling and abuse.

    I assume the "heart attack" was a figure of speech? But whether it was or not, using your bank account without permission is stealing. Stealing is a deal breaker. We put up with it for a bit, but in the end that's what put our son out. If you can't trust her to not steal and she isn't even polite, what possible use is there in keeping her home?
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2015
  18. DoneDad

    DoneDad Active Member

    Oh, I'm very literal. I thought she really had a heart attack.