2 hour violent episode, need some hugs

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by feelinalone, Mar 2, 2008.

  1. feelinalone

    feelinalone New Member

  2. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    Oh, my! No wonder he fell asleep so quickly. He had to be exhausted after all of that. I'm sure you are too.


    Anything out of the ordinary happen that might have set it off?

    Mine raged, and Travis could get pretty darn bad. But not as bad as the one you just described. I would hate to have to try and handle that alone.

    Hope you do well on your test. And that difficult child won't have another episode for a long long time.

  3. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    How long has he been on the Prozac? That can cause that kind of violence. It usually doesn't do it at first, but rather takes a little time to build in the system. Both myself and two of my kids had horrible reactions to Prozac. My daughter tried to kill herself on it.
  4. timer lady

    timer lady Queen of Hearts

    What an awful night - glad that you have a crisis plan in place & that brother in law was able to come in & help.

    by the way, don't use the PMS excuse for letting difficult child off - his behaviors, choices, illnesses are his. He may pick up on the stress you're feeling about the tests & such.

    I hope difficult child is calm & settled in the morning; that you're feeling better about things. Maybe next time you can skip the meal - frozen pizza, pop in a movie for difficult child & see if he'll chill while you study. Set up a living room tent & sit with him & eat pizza until he settles & you can study.

    I'm looking for some calm sensory ways to cool the situation off for you. I know that with my tweedles locking them away in a "safe" room was never safe or wise. We used weighted blankets, living room tents, time in's, etc. I needed to be in their sight, even though kt & wm knew I wasn't a happy camper.

    It didn't work all the time - but it didn't fail all the time either.

    Take some deep breaths - as you've called off school in the morning, plan on a long relaxing shower, time to study & finish laundry while it's quiet & difficult child is at school.

  5. AprilH

    AprilH Guest

    Your son's rage episode sounds exactly like the ones my son had and continues to have to this day. I was in a similar situation yesterday; picking him up like a three year old, putting him in his room while he is fighting me and trying to hold the door shut also...I broke down crying in my room and naturally he starts with the interrogating, asking me why I am crying and then laughing at me because I told him that I just wanted to be left alone for a few minutes. Part of me cannot wait until he turns eighteen because I know he is in for a rude awakening when he is out on his own, and the other part wants to keep him with me because I know that the world will probably chew him up and spit him out...I guess knowing that this will not last forever either way is what keeps me going. :sweating: by the way-My husband just re entered the Army and is gone until May for training, so in a way, I am a single Mom also...my son has always acted the same way, regardless if Mom or Dad is not around.
  6. daralex

    daralex Clinging onto my sanity

    Sorry you had such a horrible evening!!! Sending big ((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))
  7. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    DONT just take her off of it! Yikes! I worry about a doctor that says you could just take her off of it. The weaning could be causing this behavior. Any medication changes along with behavioral changes is often the result of the medications. I would wean him off slowly. There is a real withdrawal syndrome with SSRIs and it's not always pretty. After that, I'd take him to another doctor. in my opinion his advice on the weaning was dangerous. I've never heard of any doctor saying you can just discontinue an SSRI. Any withdrawal of an SSRI, even a slow withdrawal can cause the child to be worse at first. I'm guessing, from experience, that the medication changes or the Prozac itself are causing him to be worse and that it isn't really related to outside events. I've withdrawn from medications myself and NOTHING was worse than the time I had to go cold turkey from an antidepressant because I had a toxic reaction to it. Nothing! I totally lost it. I'd just slowly withdraw your child, and expect him to be worse before he gets better. (((Hugs)))
  8. SearchingForRainbows

    SearchingForRainbows Active Member

    Like Linda already said, I'm glad you have people you can call to help you when your difficult child is so out of control. I can't imagine how stressful it would be if you didn't have others to help you!!!

    difficult child 1 ALWAYS got worse if he sensed that things were rough for me. He actually enjoyed throwing fits when I didn't appear to be at my best. To this day, if he knows I've had a rough day, his face lights up with a creepy sort of smile... I know others have difficult children who also like to act up when they know mom has had a rough day. However, this is absolutely no excuse for their disgusting behavior!!!

    I'm sorry your difficult child is being such a pita right now!!! I wish I had some great advice for you. Unfortunately, all I can say is that I truly understand how you feel... I'm glad you found this bb. You're not alone. Hugs, WFEN
  9. KTMom91

    KTMom91 Well-Known Member

    I know how you feel...Miss KT did the same thing. Actually, she still does the same kind of things, just with more "ooomph" because of her age. Hugs to you. It can be so hard.
  10. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Wow, what a night. I cannot imagine writing or studying after that. I'm glad you were able to email your instructors.
    I'm so glad your b-i-l was able to come over.
    I hope your son is better today.
  11. Wiped Out

    Wiped Out Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Oh hugs-I hope today was much better.
  12. AprilH

    AprilH Guest

    I am right there with you on sweating when the school calls...I'm always ready and not surprised to hear what hijinks my son has been pulling all day. I am blessed like you to have a decent school that will at least try some preventative measures or some way of re direction to curb the behavior before they call me. My son's last school was not as accomodating either! Sending big hugs your way! :D
  13. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    I am sending big hugs. Also, as Linda said, it is NOT the fault of you, or your PMS causing HIS behavior. Believe me, I wondered for a while back when I used to have PMS if it could be "causing" my difficult child's behavior. Not only did his doctor's say no, one suggested I keep a diary - my rough PMS days, his behaviors, etc...

    While he did rage on PMS days, he also raged on so many others it opened my eyes. And I had some really bad days where he was fine. A journal can really open your eyes AND give you new ways to document exactly what you are seeing.

    Even it is worse on PMS days it is STILL his behavior.

    I am glad your brother in law his so great with him. This is a good thing.

    Now, I know you have to study. Next time you are at his psychiatrist or the therapist, have them show you how to do a therapeautic hold. It will let you keep him safe, and maybe you can have a reward for calming down and then NOT raging after you let go.

    I am sorry. I know how hard all of this is.

    About hte "you can just take him off the prozac". You CAN, but you shouldn't. Esp if he has been on it for several weeks, or longer. Behaviors CAN build up with any SSRI, but google "prozac withdrawal" for a real eyeopener. Prozac is the SSRI that stays in the body longest. My psychiatrist used it when taking me off Effexor and not starting another antidepressant right away. My son's psychiatrist also used it. ONE 20 mg dose every 2 WEEKS while he was having withdrawals until we decided he NEEDED and antidepressant (suicide attempts DO result in this!). I took me over 3 months to stop the effexor withdrawal, and my son was off for a month before we started another.

    Unfortunately, until he has been off the prozac for awhile you won't know if it is causing the rages. Some kids, on some SSRI's, develop worse raging after 3 months or so. My son was amazing, the first months on zoloft were great, then he was totally unable to control things. He doesn't have problems with luvox, nor did he with prozac.

    I hope your teachers are understanding and helpful. What happens if you cannot get your son to stop raging and he does serious damage to himself? Or to you?? Is there a plan to call 911 at a certain point to get him taken to a psychiatric hospital? or to call the psychiatrist's emergency line??

    I just want to make sure you don't get hurt badly, and that he doesn't.

    Sending big hugs,

  14. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    I just read the update about "i just don't like them" in regard to the medications. If you feel the medications are needed, then you should make sure (now that he has started to refuse them) to check his mouth to see he swallows. Or get the liquid version of prozac and of any allergy medications - but in my humble opinion this is harder because they can spit them out.

    medications are a big deal, so I sometimes have used a small bribe - usually one only for medications, and historically Hershey's syrup in a small spoon NOT full. They get a good chocolate taste, not too much sugar, and if they demand a large portion next time, use a smaller spoon and fill it full.

    Will he describe what he doesn't like about the medications? Do they make him feel a certain way, is it because he thinks you are trying to "control" him, is he sick, or does he not give a descrition. It took a LONG time for my difficult child to trust that I would listen when he said a medication made him feel bad/ I insisted that he tell me HOW a medication made him feel bad, or didn't like them. At the point he could tell me about feeling sick, or bad, or whatever, then I would call his doctor. I did INSIST on changes if my son was clear, if he wasn't, no changes until I knew what was going on.

    I just felt that if it made him feel bad and that I understood HOW, then we could find medications that didn't do this. It helped him learn about his body also.

    Sending hugs for a better day tomorrow.


  15. tryinghard

    tryinghard New Member


    My difficult child is a 12 year old boy. He has been diagnosis'd as ADHD when he was 6. As a baby the sitter would tell me that she had never in her 22 years of caring for infants seen a baby who would get upset for no reason and could not be comforted. WELL that should have been a HUGE red flag!:sheepish: At age three my difficult child ran off at an amusement park. Once we caught him, he hit, kicked, screamed, bite and scratched me until my husband took him from me and headed for the car. difficult child continued to hit, kick, bite, pinch husband all the way to the car. In the car difficult child was strapped into the car seat and husband attempted to drive around the parking lot so difficult child would fall asleep. NO LUCK..he screamed for three hours all the way home. This was the beginning of many many memoriable "rages".:furious:

    Here is the good news..they have gotten fewer and farther between and he is better able to collect himself and stop before going "over the edge".

    This is what we have done over the years. First, we found physical confrontatin of any kind made him worse. Second, we would try and have someone other than the person that was with him when the rage started interceed. I have no idea why this worked but it did! Third, we would keep our voices very calm and say, "I love you. I know you are feeling out of control right now. I know that you can pull yourself back and gain control. I believe in you. I love you and know you can do it".

    It was SO incredibly draining because this would last for hours when he was your son's age. With maturity he seems to be able to stop and control himself 90% of the time.

    This last Sunday we had to go to the store. We told difficult child and he went ballestic. Refusing to go, kicking things, telling us we were mean and unfair. The rage started with me so my husband came in to the room. I left the room. husband says to difficult child, " Son, I know you are upset, please tell me why" difficult child is still yelling and kicking things refusing to go. husband says, "You need to close your eyes and take deep breathes and take control of your emotions. You have a choice, you can go with us and have a good time OR if you continue to get upset you will still have to go, but you will be tired and sick because you spent so much enegy fighting going" It took him about five minutes to calm down and agree to go. After he agreed both me and husband hugged him and told him how proud we were of him and what a great decision he made.

    We used these technics since he was little. It did not work as well when he was younger, but has seemed to make a big difference the last two years.

    Sometimes when he was younger, I would just tell him over and over that I loved him and was there to help him. If possible, I would try and hug him even though his body was ridged and stiff. Sometimes it worked, other times it did not.

    I know how exhausting these rages can be. First and foremost do not blame yourself! Second, try your best to stay calm. I know it is so hard to do, but when I spun out of control (crying, yelling back) it seemed difficult child only got worse.

    i am not sure if my advice will help your difficult child or you, but I wanted to let you know I feel you pain and understand 100%. Unless you have experienced this you have no idea what these rages are like.

    Hang in there, you are a great mom~
  16. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    I am so very sorry. You must feel alone, abandoned and very scared. I am not sure where you are, but I wish I could just wrap you up in a big hug.

    It truly seems that your community is NOT responsive, and neither are your docs. You did answer my questions. I didn't mean to make you feel bad, I just thought that if you could have a concrete plan (or even a nebulous one!) that it might make things easier.

    The holds should be taught to you by professionals. To me, it sounds like a bad idea - I didn't know you had tried that. Are there any ways to help him self calm?? Weighted blankets can get expensive, my son likes a "crash pad" instead. When he gets overwhelmed he goes and yanks out hte crash pad. I made it with 2 flat twin size sheets, sewn together on 3 sides. Then I stuffed it with pillows, blankets, extra fluffy fabric not being used for a project. He can roll up in it (like a bean bag, but bigger), pull it on top of him, jump on it (usually off a dresser or the bed - arg).

    I know you are terribly pressed for time. I think some of the issues may be sensory, esp as he uses the mixed food to create certain "punishments" etc for you. It might be very helpful to read the book "The out of sync child has fun" by Kranowitz. It doesn't have all the theory that "the out of sync child" has - it contains activities that you can fairly easily set up or provide to let your son learn to self calm. The best thing is that many are very low cost, or stuff you already have!!!

    I do remember nights at the psychiatric hospital 75 miles away, waiting 8-10 hours in a locked waiting room to see an intake counsellor. AND I remember the uselessness of the suggestions we got there. (As if reading a book on Aspergers and having us spend 3-4 hours one on one - each parent separately that many hours!- a day would help. He was suicidal, afraid of himself, and didn't wantANYTHING to do with us!!!! Total joke of a counsellor, in my humble opinion)

    I have been as scared as you are, terrified my child will hurt himself or me, NO OUTLET in sight, and no support with him. My husband was NOT terribly supportive of any of the stuff with my son.

    I will hop e and pray that help comes soon. With a wonderful job opportunity for you, help for him, and a feeling of hope.


  17. ilovemykids

    ilovemykids New Member

    I live this life also. I feel your pain. My 6 year old has ADHD and ODD, this is an almost daily stuggle for us.
  18. tryinghard

    tryinghard New Member


    I just wanted to pop in and see how things are going...I am hoping that it is going well.

    Also, it is easy for me to say "stay calm" MUCH easier said than done even for me!!! There are times I have just exploded. Once I took a stick he was using the hit things in his room and when he would give it to me I got so mad I grab it and wanted to spank him with it. I knew that was not the right thing to do, but I was SOOOOO mad and frustrated I took the stick and broke it over the top of my head! Interestingly enough difficult child was so shocked it snapped him out of his rage. I have A LOT of mommy guilt of that wonderful act....but I have forgiven myself. The worst part was difficult child decided to share that story with a member of the family the other day....boy was I embarassed..even though difficult child found the whole thing very funny....

    I have learned we are human and can only try each day to learn from the past!

    I admire you and all that you are doing for your son. I believe in my heart that all we can do is love them, guide them, teach them the best we can and things will work out.
  19. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    The distractions are much what I meant. Also, a quiet area with some things that help him self-calm (for us a DVD-calm one,no violence of any kind - even many Disney animated videos are too violent for when my difficult child was needing this), things he can fiddle with, blankets, whatever works.

    The refusing to write can be several things. He needs to be tested for dysgraphia, and tested by an Occupational Therapist (OT) for sensory integration disorder. The school should be able to test for this in your situation. IF a certified letter requesting this doesn't get results, then check in with the Special Education forum - they know all the tricks!

    My boys have each refused to write. It hurts their hands. Jess too, though to a much lesser degree. The Occupational Therapist (OT) works with thank you on a weekly basis to improve his hands and writing. MAny tricks, but out school Occupational Therapist (OT) just does a little bit. we do more at home.

    Would it help you to see the info on sensory integration in a video? I know the "out of sync child" is available in vhs format - very very helpful if no time to read.

    The library at the university or the public library should have it or be able to get it. If not, let me know. I have it on VHS. Can problem make a copy and send it to you.


  20. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It


    I do not have a source or study for this, but our Occupational Therapist (OT) (the private one who did the evaluation, not the school one) told me that lefties often have more trouble, and dysgraphia is seen in many lefties. It is NOT a function of being lefthanded, it is a brain wiring issue, like dyslexia.

    Dysgraphia is something you probably need to google. You will learn a lot. My difficult child is also a lefty. My little guy is not, but holds his pencil like he is. Very strange, but thats my thank you!

    A computer may be the way to unlock your son's intelligence - he will be able to communicate with-o pain, does it get any better??? My son's work became much more detailed, clear and just wonderful. I know many other kids in my town who have had wonderful results with this.

    Is it possible that some of what they DO in art is a problem? If he got into something that had a texture or smell or something, art may not always be something he looks forward too. The sensory stuff will help.

    Again, if you can't get the video and need it, I will try to copy mine. It isn't the most up to date edition, but it is a bit easier to get if you are time challenged.