Anguished Mother

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Heather52, Jul 31, 2016.

  1. Heather52

    Heather52 Member

    I sometimes wonder if our estranged children fully comprehend the devastation their actions create when they chose to cut all ties . If things could have been different if they read some books pertaing to estrangements and what anguish they cause the chaos , families ruined , the lives they had changed and some of which are so damaged that' they are beyond repair . Or are they so self absorbed and selfish , that they simply don't care.

    God Forgive those that are capable of dishing out this heinous act.
  2. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I agree wirh you, Hearher. There is no excuse to cut total contact with somebody who loves you. calling once a month, to keep tabs, is doable.

    Many of us us apologized 100 times and didn't even know what we did. And we were punished for acts we did not understand. Its like being thrown in the trash.

    Have you ever posted on an estranged site? Those people understand. I can get links.
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2016
  3. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Copa...I am not sure what your parents did to make you feel it was decent and right to completely cut out two people who loved you, if they did. I do agree you are a good person, but if you truly cut off your parents, forcing them to grieve as I did when my son cut me off totally, then I think you are a good person who did a very cruel thing. I can only imagine how you hurt them by throwing them away for whatever reason. I do not feel this is ever okay.
    What if your son disappeared for twelve years with no word? He won't partly because he needs you financially, but if he were financially secure he could cut you out. You would never know what happened, if he married, if you had grandkids you don't know. Would this be ok in your heart? Would you be able to just go on with your life?
    Estrangement tends to be familial. Our kids see how we treat our people who love us. Often they copy what they see us do.
    This has not yet happened to you. I hope it never does. But I don't think it is ever okay to cause a parent to experience the living death of their child, even if we don't depend on them financially or even if we see their flaws.
    A more selfish man than my father does not exist. He has never even really been a father. But he loves me and I won't destroy him because he did not know how to do better or just because he was selfish and did know better. I don't punish.
    I have first hand knowledge of being tossed to the wind by a child. He probably thinks he has a good reason too. But it hurt; it wounded; if he had been my only child it may have killed me.
    No. Unless a father molested or broke his child's bones; unless a mother forced her child to beg, steal, be a prostitute, go hungry. .. I do not agree that it is okay to do a cut off. No, it's the meanest thing one can do to a parent. Nothing is worse. It may be the easiest route for some, but is it not cowardly?
    Copa you ARE kind and in the end you hurt for what you did.
    Most estranged parents apologize more than they can count and it doesn't lead to a resolution.

    You too may want to read the estranged parent sites. Just put"estranged parents of adult children" in your search engine, pick a forum with a community, and read the pain. Not to hurt yourself. To learn what this does to parents. For knowledge.
    Most people don't know.

    Have a peaceful evening, both.
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2016
  4. Heather52

    Heather52 Member

    In my heart and in my soul there are only two acceptable reasons for estrangement. Sexual Abuse and Physical abuse , the later should not be an excuse if that was resolved and one didn't feel one is in danger. Many people got over physical and emotional abuse once the victim had Learned to forgive and resumed a healthy lasting relationship with the abuser. Sexual Abuse never. End of. No matter what, one call a month is more than doable if one had a heart, a soul and a conscious.

    I got over physical and emotional abuse. Once I became an adult , I learned to forgive, and I learned that people are flawed. With forgiveness, I had a great relationship with my parents and my children has many many happy memories with my parents, their grandparents.
  5. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Heather, I agree. Most of the time that is not the case.

    Copa whether Im blocked r not, I did NOT judge you. I do not, however, feel this thread is appropriate for justifying estrangement. The mother is hurting, as did I, as does everyone this happens to. I am not going to defend myself further. This was not meant to hurt you. I am sorry about your father...I would have done the same.

    Heather, you are not alone.
  6. Sister's Keeper

    Sister's Keeper Active Member

    Well, I'm going to disagree.

    I don't think that you owe anyone a relationship, regardless of DNA.

    Just because someone loves you, or shares DNA with you does not, automatically, make them good for you.

    Sometimes we have to cut people out of our lives for our own emotional well-being.

    There are many reasons for this. Narrowing it down to just abuse is oversimplifying it. Some relationships are toxic.
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  7. BloodiedButUnbowed

    BloodiedButUnbowed Active Member

    16 year old stepson has cut us off completely. He has also cut off my W's parents. His birthday is tomorrow,and it will go unacknowledged. My W has texted him extending an offer to celebrate and he will not reply. We have not seen him since April after his partial hospitalization and IEP meeting at school. He was not found eligible for any services, but he was very angry that we took things to that level in response to his violence, and is not willing to forgive us. Add in his enabling, codependent father, with whom he lives, and who allows him to do whatever he wants, and who never backs up my W on anything involving their children, and the end result is a confused, spoiled yet also neglected man-child who has all of the freedom of adulthood with none of the consequences or responsibility. Our younger son tells us that the 16 year old is staying up until all hours of the night, sleeping until 4pm, and their father does nothing to enforce any rules or structure. School will be starting soon and it will be a literal wake up call.

    At first I felt that SS had no right to cut off anyone because he is a minor and therefore, should not be allowed to make these decisions. I still feel that way, but I have a deeper understanding now of the damage he has incurred as a result of living in a world with literally no boundaries or consequences. He thinks he can do whatever he wants to do, and that is what he is doing. His behavior now - not just cutting off his mother's side of the family, but also not living up to his responsibilities as a son and a student (very smart but lazy and doesn't do his work), having violent tantrums, refusing to take his psychiatric medications - reflects his upbringing.

    My W is hurt by his cruelty but is not pushing him. I am glad he is out of our lives and hope he stays gone as long as he is the way he is right now.
  8. mof

    mof Momdidntsignupforthis

    I imagine your pain. You know where his life is going, I pray intervention of some kind comes sooner or later for him. We too use the phrase man child...

    Hugs, sorry for your pain and stress
  9. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Sisters Keeper, I agree. You dont owe them one.

    But the cruelty of not even speaking to somebody because you don't like them is worse than a death. And when you do it to your own parents, it is more likely to happen to you with your own adult children. It often is familial...estrangements tend to run in families. This is an issue I have studied.

    it is an individual decision though. Parents cut off kids all the time and vice versa. it is getting more pervasive. I know how it feels and would not do it to another loved one unless there was real danger to me. I mean physical danger.

    I am not super close to my dad, but it doesnt kill me to call him once a week and to let him know I love him, evrn though he is flawed. He is no gem. He screams a lot. Once he said, in a furious voice, that not one of us ever gave him one moment of pleasure, not one. Everyone can brag about his kids but he can't. Blah, blah, blah.

    I feel sorry for him. I pity his illness. I do not take his nonsense personally. I know something is wrong with him. I am not going to be his best buddy. I ferl he is a narcissist. Yet I know he loves me too and that a straight cut off would hurt him. I choose not to cause him this pain. I dont have to. We live in different states. Usually our short calls are fine. If they aren't,i can tell him I have to go.

    These are all individual choices. I feel better about me if I dont inflict extra pain on people who have issues. And I dont feel it costs me anything. We are all different due to our experiences and individually.
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2016
  10. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    For those reading this who are estranged by a child or want to know how it feels, I have posted the link to one of my favorite estranged parents sites. You are not alone and you can move on. It isn't easy, but it is doable. The book is beyond awesome.
  11. Sister's Keeper

    Sister's Keeper Active Member

    Sorry, but I disagree. I don't think anyone should have to tolerate anyone who is toxic in their life. I don't believe an obligation trumps anyone's right to peace and happiness in their life.

    Some people are toxic. They bring pain and chaos. I don't think DNA should make any difference in allowing them to control and upset your life. I don't believe a relationship is ever an obligation.
  12. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Sisters Keeper, I already said that if you feel you have to do it, you will. I dont disagree that some people are toxic. And since we are all different, we deal with toxic people in ways that are comfortable to ourselves.

    That does not change the fact that while some toxic people are dangerous, such as child molesters, most just say things we don't like and many are mentally ill. We can leave them in the dust, which will hurt them, or we can keep up contact. It doesnt mean spending days together. I am against shunning people to the point we ask like they no longer exist, but I dont expect everyone to think like me.

    In estrangements, usually the entire family is impacted and sides are taken. Again, I have studied estrangement extensively. I feel the estranger often becomes the toxic person due to this. Also, it is a fact that estrangement tends to become common in certain families....if people look in their family backgrounds estrangers usually see other estrangement in their family and their own kids are at much higher risk to do the same to them. Even if we were good parents or think we were. (I think we all think we are).

    I personally choose not to set this example for my family. My one estranged child was unusual that he came to our country and family at age six and had many identity issues and, of course, his backgound included the very hurtful experience of being given up for adoption. That is a type of estrangement in of itself. Andhe made no bones about feeling unwanted thst nobody adopted him for six years and having trouble bonding with adults.

    Sisters Keeper, you did a brave and noble thing, taking in your sisters children. The outcome of how the kids will ultimately respond to having a mother who chose drugs over them can not play out yet. Your kids are too young to guess. I did not see it coming with my son. We got along well.

    None of my beloved children who came to me as babies are estranged. In fact we are very close. Usually I hear from all of them every other day. I tried hard to not show them estrangement. I dont see it as a good example. And now that my dad is 92 I am so glad I never said,"You are disowned. You are toxic."

    I will have no regrets. I kept him far enough away that his toxicity did not affect mr or anyone else I love. I feel anyone can keep a distance without total estrangement. BUT we sll have to do what we feel is best. If you feel that there are toxic people that you cant talk to at all ever again, that is your decision. The same answers that may apply to you or me dont apply to everyone else. We are different in our thinking and approaches and that is okay.

    One thing I would not forgive and forget sexual abuse, a family.member who tried to hurt or kill me or steal all I have. I do need to protect me and my kids from danger.

    Those reasons are the only things that would make me estrange somebody. Words, no. Detach, yes. Estrange, no. it simply hurts too much and I know how it feels and know estrangement affects more than just me, if i make that choice...which I won't.

    Sisters Keeper, I am okay with anything you want to do in your life. I just would not do the same. And thats okay. And my decisions are also okay and my feeling about estrangement in my life is unshakable. As I am sure your are with you.
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2016
  13. Sister's Keeper

    Sister's Keeper Active Member

    I am not seeking nor do I require approval for any choices I have made or will make in my life. I am also quite cognizant of the not too subtle disapproval in the form of attempting to shame or threaten people who have made, or needed to make different choices than you have. Please don't play head games. You don't frighten me with threats of "regret" or that my own children will do the same to me. If there is a point in my children's lives that it is in their best interests emotionally to separate from the family, I would rather have a happy, healthy child and me take the brunt of the pain, than have a child who is unhappy or does not feel peace in their lives because they feel an obligation.

    As you have said, everyone makes choices in their lives based upon their own experiences. We all need to do what we need to do to be happy and healthy. I am sorry that you have been hurt by experiences in your life and they have, undoubtedly, colored your feelings on the matter, but the ominous statement, subtle and not so subtle, that our children will leave us or we will live a life of regret really aren't necessary.

    We all make the choices we deem necessary to be whole, happy, and healthy. It is different for everyone as everyone's situations are different.

    What works for you works for you and I am glad that it makes you happy, healthy, and whole, just, please, respect that not everyone's life situation is the same, nor should it be.
  14. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    SISTERS Keeper I am sorry you feel that way. I feel it is a hurtful choice if you made it and that there are compromises to the choice but it has nothING to do with me.

    Those who do this get very defensive. I get that. There is nothing in it for me to shame you.

    Frankly, I read the first two sentences of your newest reply only and don't want to see anyone defending a shun. Yes, I feel it is not a good choice. Your kids are too young for this to be an issue yet.

    As Copa did me, I am blocking you. I don't really think we have anything more to say about this to one another. Good bye.
  15. svengandhi

    svengandhi Well-Known Member

    I am someone who was estranged from my parents pretty much from the time I entered college until they died and who will NEVER speak to my only sibling ever again. My reasons do not involve sexual or physical abuse but they are satisfactory to me.

    I don't think that anyone can presume understand why another person makes the choices that they do. I would much rather have had my parents and sister in my life, but it wasn't possible if I wanted to be a mentally healthy person who could raise her own children in an emotionally stable and safe environment. For me, that's the crux of it. Anything else is nobody's business.
  16. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Sven, I am very sad for you.

    This makes me feel blessed that as bad as my family was (and frankly it sucked) I did not feel this was necessary.

    We do what we feel we have to do. I am not going to talk about this with people who estranged loved ones. I usually address this issue on more appropriate forums and this in my opinion is not the right place for this issue.

    I will not revisit this thread. I do understand that everyone has his/her own story. As for judging, everyone is judged. I am trying very hard not to do this here...its hard so I will move on.

    Anyone who posts here about this, is no longer posting to me. I am not going to read it.
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2016
  17. Sister's Keeper

    Sister's Keeper Active Member

    ...and this is exactly my point. People can be just as abusive, if not more, emotionally than they can be physically. Sometimes there are people who just are not positive or healthy influences in our lives.

    If a spouse or significant other or even a friend were toxic then everyone would be shouting from the rooftops to kick them to the curb and not to allow them the power to control your emotions, but when that person is a parent suddenly they are "owed" a relationship.

    Just because someone gives birth to you doesn't make them a good person or a healthy person or a positive force in your life. Sometimes, for everyone's well-being the best thing to do is remove the toxin from your life.

    It would be ideal if everyone could have a close and loving parent-child relationship, but the mere act of raising a child doesn't, necessarily, make you a healthy or loving person.

    It is way too cut and dried to say that all but physical and sexual abuse should be tolerated.
  18. This is an interesting toppic....I think one not all of us want to admit in ourselves.....
    I agree with trying to minimize the contact with a toxic problem is, what if the emosional prise that you pay, for example highten anxiety exct (for not having contact) hurts more than the toxic remarks, rejection exct.? What if your fear for rejection in itself causes more stress than the emotional pain of listening to rejecting, hurtfull remarks?