as someone said about leading a horse to water....


Active Member
you cannot make them drink, even if they are dehydrated hanging by their sallow skin.

ant was mugged last friday. sunday he showed up at boyfriend's house while I was there. we hugged and I told him this is not going to end til one of us is dead. he refused to stay at BFs and went back to his apartment with some girl who had a gun to stay and protect them. I am not kidding his apartment is in a war zone looking area crawling with creeps in the daylight even.

so I made a mistake. I gave him 30 bucks. he was broke, boyfriend gave him a bag of food from the cupboards. I told him to buy simple food for the week and not eat out.

he ate out on the way back to his apartment. he bought cigarettes. monday he had one dollar left. :hammer: I know I know I should have gone and given him two bags of food instead. whatever! :eek: he can starve as I am not giving him anything. boyfriend on the other hand is buying his lunch every day til friday. so he gets one meal. not my problem.

sunday boyfriend called a friend nearby his house who had a lovely apartment closer to boyfriend, safe area, less money. we went and looked. I would not mind being there myself. wrap around porch, big window with a view of the park, safe secure, a nice family living downstairs of the place. I told boyfriend I would front the security deposit and one month rent and the guy said he would give a short lease to see if he liked it so we would not be tied in long. boyfriend said he would take the money out of ant's wages to pay me back what I put out. my risk would be if ant went back to jail I would have to pay a couple month's rent for an empty place.

after much thought boyfriend took ant monday to see the place and told him our plan. ant said no. :grrr:

he said he will stay in war zone. his choice. problem because war zone has two bars he can walk to and prostitutes all over the place.

so that was my final offer. deal or no deal.

No deal. no further offers will be given.
I noticed after I am sad and spend a few days mourning, it is followed by some plan of action and then I let it go. I must learn to be more patient with the plan unfolding.


No real answers to life..
He doesn't want your involvement because he views it as you will have some say in his life. Ant still doesn't want to hear about any rules, let alone listen to his mom with a reasonable plan....sorry for your pain.


Former desparate mom
<span style='font-size: 11pt'>I know the feeling. You get disgusted and throw up your hands and walk away, then you cool off and think of something that may help,then realize difficult child's sabotage the opportunity. You throw up your hands again.
Ant is making risky choices that put him in harm's way. There is no parent that will not worry about a kid who is doing that sort of thing but difficult child's have the door that slams down when they should be thinking wisely about their safety. It blocks out reasonable decisions.
I always find it amazing that anyone would choose a dirty, crappy living environment just to prove they are not listening to anyone. I always want to ask "how's that working for you?"
All you can do is realize he has a lot of limitations and that he isn't really interested in our view of a decent life.
Hang in there Janet. </span>


New Member
As always Janet, your strength inspires me. Your plan was a good one but I agree with whymemom. He doesn't want you to feel you have any say in his life even if it means putting his own life at risk. Typical difficult child behavior.

saving grace

New Member
This kills me, wasnt Ant just beggin to come home last week??? He will live with you but he wont take an offer of help for his OWN place!!!! what is going on with him. UGH this makes me so angry. I just want to shake him.

Im so sorry this is so difficult for you Janet, I really am.



New Member
Ant will get it in his own time. The crummy place is "his" place in his eyes. He can come and go and have whoever stay and yes, it is close to the bars he wants to visit.

Janet he is not ready. The right thing, the easiest thing would be to move to the place you and boyfriend found. He is not ready for that yet. He is tasting what he thinks he missed all that time in jail. Be patient and let go.

When he is ready, you will know

Sending hugs!! I know your heart is broken


(the future) MRS. GERE
Oh goodness, Rob would rather be homeless on his own terms than in an apartment if I had anything to do with it. I must admit that I am stubborn enough myself that I have a grudging respect for his recalcitrance, even if it is misguided and sometimes unsafe. We can only hope that their values will eventually be acceptable because we sure don't have any control over them.

Oh Janet. I am praying so hard for you and Ant. I know haw hard it is for you to detatch from him, and how very worried you are about him.
The only thing you have control over is YOU. He will get help and change if and only if (and when) he is ready.

The serenity prayer. Till you are blue in the face.

Gentle hugs. Or big bear hugs, whichever you need.


Stubborn, stubborn, stubborn. If only they would use their powers for good....think of what all that stubbornness could accomplish.

I'm sorry you are hurting.


New Member
I think the problem is, whether we understand it or not, Ant is living where he feels he belongs and is comfortable. He probably wouldn't be comfortable in a "nice" apartment with a wrap around porch. I remember when my difficult child got his apartment last year and I cringed when I saw the neighborhood it was in. I thought, why doesn't he want to live in a nice neighborhood like the one he grew up in??? But this is where he felt he belonged!! Thank god the soberhouse he is living in now is in a really nice area. I know he doesn't really care, but it makes me feel better.

I think it is time for you to totally detatch for a while. You are trying to hard to get him to do things that he obviously isn't willing to do. You know he is capable of change, because he did it for a short time, but right now he's back to his old ways and not ready to give them up again yet.

I'm amazed your boyfriend does so much for him. I give him a lot of credit. He must be some amazing guy. Most fathers wouldn't do as much as he has. I hope Ant appreciates this someday.


New Member
Oh and by the way, don't kick yourself for giving him the $30. We have all slipped up and done that when we see our children starving. Atleast I know I have.


I agree, don't beat yourself up over giving him $30.00--we are only human and we want so much to be of help. We do learn and move on and it sounds as though you have once again! You have done what you can, now it is time to just let go again (til next time, right?) :smile: Sounds like you know your process, you are doing great.


New Member
Janet, we have to do what we can.

And you did.

It was better for Ant to tell you honestly that he likes where he is than for him to have taken the apartment and trashed it or embarrassed you or boyfriend, or both.

Give him credit for that, if you can, Janet.

I too admire your strength.

And your compassion.



New Member
Janet, I totally understand you wanting to help and being frustrated when the help is denied. The bottom line is Ant isn't ready to lead the life you want for him. He might not be capable or he might not be willing. Either way there is nothing more you can do. -RM


Active Member
I am at peace with knwoing he had a choice. if his choice brings him trouble, at least I tried.
the thing about boyfriend is strange at times. he profits from having ant live near him as ant works very hard for him. he pays ant well but 5.00 an hour less than the other guy who drives his own truck. ant has to get rides from boyfriend. boyfriend does not want to socialize with ant in any way but he keeps him during the day for work. ant needs him.
Bfs situation with me puzzles me at times. on sunday when I asked him about having his mother for mother's day he casually said he would not be home. keep in mind we have lived together almost two yrs. he then said he was going on a trip with his daughters. they had planned it 6 wks ago. they asked if he would go without me. he didnt bother to ask to include me and didnt bother to tell me he was going. he can be very good with ant but keeps me in the dark at times.

I have always gone to visit them in Difficult Child with him. this time they want only him. when we had the issue of the older girl cutting me out of a planned trip last october, boyfriend promised in the future he would make the girls know we are a couple and I was to at least be asked and given the choice to go or not. he must have decided once more not to bother ckg with me. he said his girls do the same with their mother, and her live in man of three yrs. he is not included to anything.

I think it is wrong. I do not want him to exclude me. at times I understand him wanting time alone with his girls. this has nothing to do with getting away from ant. at the time they planned this, ant lived here. it is about the girls wanting to keep daddy to themselves. boyfriend will not go to bat for me.

so he is going. I told him this is the last time I will be left out and not asked to play. unless I say I do not want to do whatever it is they are doing...he should at least invite me and give me a choice. he agreed that he will consult me next time, but then again he agreed to that in October. here we are again.

boyfriend always wanted a son, he likes to try and mould people. he has an ex brother in law he still is doing this with, a cocaine addict that boyfriend loans money to, gives work to, and the guy disappoints boyfriend time and again. still boyfriend babys this guy. the guy is 48 yrs old.


New Member
Sounds like he likes to feel needed and likes to try and fix people?? Hmmmm??

I don't like that he's not including you on mothers day. I know you don't have any of his children, but aren't his kids spending it with their mother? It's not fathers day!! He should be telling them that you are a part of his life and if you aren't included, neither is he.


Active Member
his girls should have their mom over, I do not know why they are having him and not her. boyfriend and his ex do not speak to one another at all as she left him about 5 yrs ago for the guy she is living with now. she is happy and the girls are happy for her. however the older girl has told both parents they can visit without any partners.

it is a 5 hr drive to their house, he will take them out to dinner, in the morning they are going for a hike then out to shop (he will pay) and then dinner out again, in the morn brunch and then he will drive 5 hrs home to get here by dinner mother's day to see his mother. the trips are all the same. I have gone on them with him twice a year for the past three yrs.

believe me we had a two day talk about this-- this week. we had a longer talk in October about the colorado trip I was excluded from and he went on with the older girl. I had been invited 6 mon prior, had taken time off work, made plans and one week before the trip I happened to tell boyfriend we hadnt bought airplane tix yet and he had been stalling. he then fessed up he bought tix with the daughter as she had asked that she and he go without me so they could have time alone. grrr i nearly broke up with him then but chose to stay on as he has so many other good qualities.

he has a very small family...just he and a sis, mom and dad and these two girls are the only grandkids. they are spoiled rotten and never have to include anyone. I am the first person to come along new to their world as their parents were married 24 yrs. boyfriend tells me they exclude mom's boyfriend and he is ok with it. I am not ok with it. he needs to make me a factor. I do not mind him having time with his daughters, just they do it so mean.


Active Member
by the way he said his family thinks this is ok. my family would never exclude him and I would not allow my sons to say I could come but he was not welcome.

he said they plan on doing more wilderness backpack treks. they go to areas that are very isolated and backpack to find trails in places most people would never venture. I do like to hike and walk on known trails but one time I went with them to do this other stuff, they got lost in a dark forest in the Rocky mtns. they are novices. I was scared. they find their way with markings on trees and stuff. I ended up bailing out and going back. they asked boyfriend in front of me if he knew I was like that and if so why did he bring me along.

I went one more time and they did it again. we went down a path by a river and then they decided to go off path. I was hyperventilating and worried about snakes and bears and getting lost again. I went back and let them continue for the next two hrs. as they poked along in the woods.

boyfriend said no sense asking me to stuff they want to do like that as I will not like it so I can stay home. my point is at least ask me and let me decide or plan places to go that are intermediate trails, not advanced ones. or let me hang out with a book in the park til they get back.

now they know I am afraid in caves so I am betting there will be a spelunking trip for crying out loud. that way they can say they didnt ask me because they knew I would not like it.


Active Member
can you tell I am angry???? lol
I am trying to see waht choices do I have?

A. let the daughters have him alone and just be glad I have him the other days to myself

B. set a precedent since this is a developing part of our relationship...insist he have them include me just like my sons are with him

C. go find someone else altogether who makes me a priority



No real answers to life..
<span style='font-family: Comic Sans MS'>Janet, it looks like you will have to choose between A & C. He's already been down the B path and chose once again not to tell you until its too late. He wants to avoid conflict with you, yet he still chooses to go with his daughters. He could say no to them or he could tell you ahead of time that this is what he is doing and face wrath from either party. It looks to me like he is thinking you won't walk away from the ball is in your court. Do you want him part time or is it more important to have someone there, at least on his terms?

I know what my answer would be, but I say it from the comfort of my home and 30+year marriage. I am confident I would go it alone, but I am an independent person and if something happened to my husband I don't think I could start over with someone else. I'd rather live alone with my dog..... But you are a "big girl" and will have to make your own decision. It will be the right one for you....

Time to put on your "big girl panties".....(quoting some board member...I just can't remember who!)</span>