Bewildered Extremely Sad

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by Hopeful97, Jan 25, 2016.

  1. Hopeful97

    Hopeful97 Active Member

    I have had little to no contact with d c. A few weeks ago he left message he was crying saying how he was so depressed and had no one to talk to and he thought he would always be able to contact his mom when the depression got this bad. I ended up contacting him, he was still, for lack of better terms, in a very bad state with regard to the depression. I asked him if he was thinking of hurting himself he said he did not know. I told him I would take him to er he asked of we could just talk first. We talked for longer than we have in a while about having someone to be able to talk to and what needs to be done to help survive mental illness. Like therapy, medications, support group, doctor, and a person or a couple of people that I call a safety net (he already knows all of this). I had once told him if/when he was really bad with depression I would always talk to him. We ended up telling each other we loved and cared for the other. He was much better.

    Back up several years, mental illness is prevelant in my family. I have a mental illness and in and out of hospitals several times during my adult life and when kids were little. I am in recovery and I know that a relapse can happen at anytime, but over the years I have learned to get help early on and there times for whatever reason that I fail to do that and my safety net (hubs, parents, sis, friend, and now older son, doctor) will intervene. My reason for saying this is to give you the clear picture that my d c (diagnosed with mental illness very young and later diagnosed with mental illnesses) knows about the necessity to get help and there is help and you can lead a good life. Especially growing up so close to and even with m illnesses he probably has more knowledge than others his age.

    Anyway time elapsed no contact for a while with the exception of him asking hubby or first born to tell me he loves me. Which is not often because they have minimal contact. D c calls this weekend I did not respond he calls hubby, he is crying mess asks to talk to me. I tell him he knows to get help and he knows how. He says I thought you would always talk to me when I am this bad. I said we are talking. Told him again he needed to get professional help and that je knows how. I told him things would be much better if he stopped posting the crap he was posting on fb and to walk away from people wanting to engage in violence. He said he felt like he did not have a family, this probably came from him not knowing about gmas 90th surprise birthday party. I told him if a family event was going to happen someone would let him know and get him there if he wanted to participate. He came to both Christmas celebrations and 1 of the Thanksgiving celebrations. (Just adding because it bugs me, he was to be in 1st borns wedding which was about a month before he was made to leave our home. His brother really wanted him to be in his wedding, 1st born all about family, very loving and caring young man. 1st born has always talked to, included, helped, protected d c and they were at one time very close. D c got fitted for tux never showed up for daytime wedding or evening reception, no phone call nothing. 1st born extremely hurt as he said "Mom I thought since we got tux for him and he got fitted he would come and I told him I really wanted him to be part of one of the most important days of my life") Sorry about that rant, it was really for all of family to deal with the hurt and knowing how deeply he hurt 1st born.) Wedding was most wonderful time me, my hubby and son getting married have had in a long time even with the no show we went on and had a wonderful, fun exciting time.
    So I tell d c he does have a family that loves and cares for him. We hang up.

    Later that evening we discover an extremely violent post on the internet, this is very disturbing and I am even ashamed to talk about it, but if I do not it will continue to be at the forefront of my mind haunting me. It shows my d c in a fight (nothing new) this was different the other guy fell to ground after several exchanged punches went into a fetal position d c continues to kick and punch, you can hear people calling d c to stop. I turned it off, I was extremely extremely upset, angry, disappointed, extremely ashamed as was hubby. 1st born told us that others had to pull d c off.

    Knowing that my child is capable of that kind of violence............ I am distraught, numb I do not know how I feel.

    D c just talked to me a few hours before "oh I am so depressed" .
    Is this part of aspd (anti social personality disorder)? Where is this uncontrolled viciousness coming from? He has mentally and emotionaly abused me and hubs and others I am sure.

    When he was so distraught earlier in the day or just using that as some kind of manipulation? His other tatics have stopped working on me to get his way or perceived help (fear, yelling, blaming, etc.). Is he trying in some way to manipulate using what he knows about my mental illness? Where is this rage coming from?

    The abuse, lies, theft, destruction are no longer in my home. We were prisoners in our own home. Bolt locks on every interior door except d c s old room and bathroom. Lived like this for a few years. Locking our bolt on our bedroom door with dogs in room with us when we went to sleep. Eventually, leaving home with dogs when hubs went to work making d c leave when we were gone and me not returning until hubs called that he was home from work.

    I do not say the above paragraph so you will feel sorry or bad that is not my intention at all, purely to give you some background.

    Unsure if I should talk to him next time he is (I hate to say it) allegedly distraught? It is hard to wrap my brain around the fact that d c would use his or my mental illness as a manipulation tool. Does he want me out of the picture even though he says he loves me? How can Difficult Child use such a horrible illness to manipulate? What happens if he takes his life during one of those desperate times and I refused to talk to him?

    This feels wrong to say, but I wish d c was miles, miles, miles away rather than in the vicinity.

    Hubs is not as far along on this journey with d c I try to remember that, although after this weekend I think he inched along a little further. We do agree that d c should not be around our house and it is to be enforced by police.

    I do not think I have anymore to give d c has taken it all. If there is another d c "depressed crisis" I will simply say I am on the phone and be silent with the only response being "sorry about that" and "I love you goodbye" if I even talk to him at all.

    I always thought losing a child would be the most difficult thing to endure, but my mom who lost her son my brother when he was almost 17, told me she thinks what we are going through with d c is just as hard and in some ways harder. By her saying that it makes me think maybe I am a little stronger than I thought.

    This is so incredibly sad and difficult. I am trying to lovingly detach. It seems hubby is trying to say no and avoid.

    Sorry this is so long and rambly, had a lot on my mind. My emotions and thoughts are all over the place.


    Last edited: Jan 25, 2016
  2. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    The person he was fighting with, or the people who pulled him off, should be reporting this to police. When he has to start facing the consequences of his actions, he may be willing to get help.
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  3. Hopeful97

    Hopeful97 Active Member

    I totally agree. He has several warrants. He needs to be in a mental health secured prison. If the people who pulled him off are his cronies they are just as bad. Thus we do not want him around as we well know it brings his cronies around to.
  4. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Do you have a confidential crime stoppers line? (some places, it isn't confidential - where we are, it is)
    If you do, you could call in, and point them to the video.
    They can take it from there.
  5. Hopeful97

    Hopeful97 Active Member

    I go for a breast biopsy tomorrow along with all of these swirling emotions. How much more can I take, I think not much emotionally I am stretched very thin.
  6. pasajes4

    pasajes4 Well-Known Member

    Ditto. Kuddos to you for taking responsibility for managing your illness.
  7. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I couldn't agree more. Sometimes we think NOT telling the police on them when they do criminal things helps them. It does just the opposite and makes them think they can get away with anything. I would have reported my kid if this had happened to hope and pray that the police charges would lead to help. It sounds like your son may be taking drugs. Mental illness, contrary to some ignorant people's opinions, does not cause one to be violent unless they are having psychotic, paranoid hallucinations and voices and believe them. Depression does not cause violence. Drugs can.

    He does have symptoms of antisocial personality disorder from what you said, but again if he is taking drugs, that would or could be the root cause of his behavior. It's something that will land him in prison if he doesn't face consequences and does it again. And he isn't thinking...anyone can turn him in since he posted it on FB.

    Oh, and sending prayers that your biopsy comes back negative!! I went through that and understand. Take care of YOURSELF right now. You can't take care of any other adult, not even a child.

    Hugs and more hugs for your hurting heart.
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  8. Hopeful97

    Hopeful97 Active Member

    Thank you. We have a way to report not sure it is confidential. Will definitely look into it. Will hope if it is confidential that d c and/or cronies do not find out as they seem to because backlash would come most likely from cronies but who knows.
  9. Hopeful97

    Hopeful97 Active Member

    At this point I do not care, about the confidentiality, I do care because it involves the safety of the confidentiality person. I have called on him for other things.
  10. Hopeful97

    Hopeful97 Active Member

    Thank you. I do know that some kind of drug and probably alcohol are involved. I know that mental illness does not cause violence except maybe during a psychotic episode. He has been in many fights and I am sure many I do not know about and I am sure they became increasingly more violent each time. He has been arrested several times he always seems to wriggle out of it. It has to catch up to him sooner or later.

    Thank you for your prayers about my biopsy they are much appreciated.


  11. Hopeful97

    Hopeful97 Active Member

    D c s
  12. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Anger can be a manifestation of depression, especially in men. Depression doesn't cause violence - but when the depression spills over into anger, the anger can cause violence.
  13. Hopeful97

    Hopeful97 Active Member

    When d c came back home from residential living for a year and a half it did not take long for unacceptable behavior to begin and rapidly escalated leading to heavy police involvement and eventually d c not living in our home beginning on his 18th birthday.

    It seems, that is happening now. I do not know because I have had minimal contact.

    It is shameful that d c is capable of this kind of violent disregard for others.
  14. AppleCori

    AppleCori Well-Known Member

    Hi and welcome, Hope

    Just a quick note to say that I am glad you have found us. I hope that your biopsy is negative and everything is OK.

    Please keep posting, and please let us know how you are doing and the biopsy results.

    I hope you will stay with us.

    Prayers and thoughts for you tomorrow.

  15. Tanya M

    Tanya M Living with an attitude of gratitude Staff Member

    Hi Hopeful,

    I'm so glad you shared what is going on with you. Holding it inside does no good. I am so sorry for what you are going through. I can imagine how upsetting it was to view that video. I agree with the others that the police should be notified.

    Your son very well may be using the mental illness as a manipulation tool. One thing I have learned about difficult children is to never underestimate how low they will stoop to get what they want. I have been on the receiving end of my son talking the talk and me believing him only to have it all shattered when the truth comes out, and the truth always has a way of coming out.

    You are very wise to keep things in check and to be on guard. That is something else I learned about my son, to always be on guard. With my son, if his lips are moving he's most likely lying. I have been played by him too many times.
    I think as long as you are aware that he can be scamming you, you will be able to talk to him occasionally. It's when we "believe" what they are telling us that we so easily can by sucked back into the chaos vortex.

    The most important person you need to concern yourself with is YOU. It sounds to me like you have a very good grasp of all that is going on.

    I hope all goes well with your biopsy. Please let us know how things turn out. We care about you.

    (((HUGS))) to you this winters night..............
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  16. New Leaf

    New Leaf Well-Known Member

    Hi Hopeful,
    Thinking of you dear sister..... prayers going up for your biopsy tomorrow. I am sorry for all of your heart ache and this on top of it.
    Life is really, really hard.
    You are so strong.
    I am amazed at how much you have come through and how strong you are.
    You are brave as well, thank you for sharing your story, because there are others in similar situations who will benefit. It is difficult to deal with our own health issues, and our d cs. I am glad you have your safety net with your family, sis, hubby and older son.
    I am glad you were able to talk with your son. I know it has been awhile since there has been a decent conversation. But, talking with our d cs about their woes, whether it is in calm tones or not, can be very stressful on us.
    I am sorry Hopeful, it is disturbing. No wonder you are feeling bewildered and sad. Hopeful, I agree with the others that the police should be alerted on the video. What if his violent outbursts escalate? That would be even more horrible. I think you will have a weight lifted off your shoulders if you alert police.
    Son must deal with the consequences of his poor choices. It is assault. He is wrong.
    I am not a doctor, but I have been depressed. I don't feel like going anywhere, doing anything. It does seem more than a bit fishy.
    My two have extreme mood swings. They can be sullen, withdrawn and downright nasty, and their phone would ring, one of their "cronies" as you say, sudden uplifted spirits, laughter, etc., etc.
    Get off the phone, the biotch from heck is back in the room.
    It is bizarre and unsettling.
    I think our d cs are capable of stooping to some very dark levels to get what they want.
    Hopeful, do you have any idea of what he may be using? Meth makes people violent, as does a number of drugs out there.
    He is bouncing from here to there, and refused to go into a shelter that would help him get a job, rehab, whatever he needed to be set up. He was constantly showing up at your house, pleading for rides, which led to more and more. You and your hubby have been through so much, and what is clear about the things you have posted about, is that your son, like my two,
    thinks about one thing most of the time,
    ME, me,me,me,me.
    Poor me.
    But, HE won't do anything about it.

    It is disturbing to think he would use your illness
    . I do not put it past him.
    I write this, because my two would.
    The manipulating and lies, stealing, denial.
    It is hard for a mother to wrap her head around it.
    You know why Hopeful?
    Because we would not do these things to our own parents.

    There is an entirely different mindset going on with our d cs, and we are really no match for them.

    It reminds me of my two doggies playing, I have a big one and a small one.
    The small one runs circles and circles around the bigger one.

    This is what our d cs try do to us.
    Talk circles.
    Pull the wool over the eyes,
    the rug from under the feet,
    whatever it takes to get what they want.

    The biggest tool they use is guilt; so son felt depressed maybe because of gmas 90th surprise party, but, then again....... he was invited to his brothers wedding, tux fitted and all, and never showed up, no call, no nothing.

    Always about them.
    Too bad.
    We have spent enough time worrying about them, more than they think of their own choices and consequences, that is where I am at right now.

    You have health issues, that is first, Hopeful. You come first.

    I wish that for you too. I am liking my limited/no contact with my two. I just miss my grands.
    How does a mom say this?
    I have been stomped on too many times, and so have you.

    I do not blame you one bit Hopeful. I think short conversations are best, when we know our d cs just want to talk circles. Don't let him put you in the FOG.

    Until you figure out what is going on with your health, I would maybe even consider going no contact. Stress is very bad. This has been very stressful.
    Please take time for yourself to relax and breathe. You are a wonderful person and deserve peace.
    I will be thinking of you and praying for negative results with your biopsy.
    Will sis, or hubby be going?

    Know that you are not alone, we are circling up the prayer wagons here on CD.
    That is a GOOD circle....Prayers are powerful. Prayers and positive thinking..........

    Take care dear warrior sister. You are in my thoughts.....

  17. Albatross

    Albatross Well-Known Member

    I am so sorry, Hopeful.

    I too wonder about the erratic and extreme mood swings and what drugs are involved.

    In my son's case, he said something once after he had been drinking (and his filters were off) that stuck with me..."I drink this much so I can feel SOMETHING." That something is usually unbridled joy quickly followed by uncontrolled anger. But without alcohol he feels (or at least says he feels) no emotion about anything, other than profound depression.

    Right now, Hopeful, the focus should be on you. If going no contact is too much change to handle right now, I think you should do what you can to avoid any confrontation. Those kinds of non-committal "that sounds so hard/scary/sad, what are you going to do about it?" type answers are always the safest, I think.
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  18. AppleCori

    AppleCori Well-Known Member

    How did the appointment go today, Hope?
  19. Childofmine

    Childofmine one day at a time

    Hi Hopeful, I know you are reeling from the emotions of the encounters with your son and then the video and now the biopsy, but I want you to know that through it all, I see a lot of good thinking on your part.

    While it's very painful to hear and see these things, you have learned quite a bit about boundaries and letting him deal with his own life.

    It's so hard to make that first break, and it's so hard to hear that they still aren't doing the things that will lead them to a better life, but you know and I know that we can't make that happen for them.

    Who knows what he was thinking when he called you and what made him say the things he said to you and then go out and become violent? Don't try to apply your good reason to his motives and his decisions----he is going to do whatever he does until he is motivated by something to change his life.

    In my experience, the times my son was in jail (8 or 9 times) were the best times for him and for me, looking back. He was "somewhere", I could rest in that knowledge, he was away from the street, homelessness and drugs and actually, jail became a preferred place (for me) for him. It was one night while he was in jail the last time that he had an "awakening" that seems to have stuck. He is on a different path today and I pray it continues.

    As much as you can, stand back from him and say very little and wait. Beating someone up like he did will have some consequences of some sort, and perhaps that will be HIS turning point.

    I hope your doctor's visit was a positive one today and you are able to focus on yourself. Take care, and know that we're here for you.
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  20. Hopeful97

    Hopeful97 Active Member

    Thank you everyone. D c had asked me a while back, after an emergency happened with hubs and d c found afterward, if I would at least let him know when something in the family happens. I said ok. Hubs talks to d c a few times a week and sees him occasionally, that is ok hubs is at a different place than me on this journey concerning d c. It is ok because we agree on a very important item and that is d c is to be no where around our home. We were going out and before we left hubs was going to see d c for a few minutes (I don't think they have much to say to each other). I say I should probably tell d c about me, hubs asks if I want to go with him. No surprise d c is told sugery is needed there is not really a response. We leave quickly because suspicions some kind of drug deal happening. Needless to say I won't be going along again.
    I can honestly say this did not really bother it is kind of what I have come to expect which is really sad.

    Biopsy showed I have atypical ductal hyperplasia ADH which is kind of like a pre cursor to precancer. Lots of good info on the mayo clinic site. I talk to a surgeon Tuesday. It is my understanding that they remove the cluster of microcalcifications and follow up every 6 months. We will see what doctor says, I already have several questions written down. It is is going to be okay caught very early. Thanks for your prayers, care and concern it is greatly appreciated.

    Standing Strong!