Children of Narcissists: Manipulative and guilt-ridden types

Discussion in 'Family of Origin' started by Copabanana, Sep 3, 2015.

  1. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    (From Wikipedia)

    Children of narcissists

    Children of a resistant, more stubborn temperament parent defend against being supportive of others in the house. They observe how the selfish parents get their needs met by others. They learn how manipulation and using guilt gets the parent what he or she wants. They develop a false self and useaggression and intimidation to get their way.[15] Some of the most common issues in narcissistic parenting are due to the lack of appropriate, responsible nurturing which ultimately contributes to a child’s feeling of emptiness, insecurity in loving relationships, imaginary fears, mistrust of others, identity conflict and inability to develop a unique existence from that of the parent.[16]

    The sensitive, guilt-ridden children in the family learn to meet the parent’s needs for gratification and try to get love by accommodating the whims and wishes of the parent. The child’s normal feelings are ignored, denied and eventuallyrepressed in attempts to gain the parent’s “love”. Guilt and shame keep the child locked into this developmental arrest. Their aggressive impulses and rage become split off and are not integrated with normal development. These children develop a false self as adefense mechanism and becomecodependent in relationships. The child's unconscious denial of their true selfperpetuates a cycle of self-hatred, fearing any reminder of their authentic self.
  2. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    If I had to put my sister and I into types as they are defined above, I would be the guilt-ridden type and my sister the manipulative/aggressive type.

    I do not think it is this simple but it is interesting nonetheless.
  3. Scent of Cedar *

    Scent of Cedar * Well-Known Member

    Initially, I read it as: "learn to meet the parent's needs for gratification". Then, I read it as: "The child will learn to meet the parent's needs for gratification and will create a self around the parent's needs. And no self at all, of her own."

    So slavery, or zombieism. Maybe that is what all the zombie movies are about these days.

    External locus of control, every minute, every thought, everything given over to someone else's needs or authority.

    What else I have been reading about this morning, regarding reclamation of efficacy:

    First, this thought: That in learning the hardest things, the value in the learning is less in what will be retained than it is that learning the hard things changes the way we think. Study of the Pythagorean Theorem, for instance, will change self concept, too.

    So, that is an interesting thing.

    VALUE: A matter of regard and behavior.

    MANIPULATION: To assure things run smoothly.

    I had not seen this definition of manipulation. Oh, how I wish I'd known it when that first therapist named me "manipulator". To this interpretation of that word, I would have acquiesced, immediately.

    I though he was saying I was a liar, or someone who used others to her own advantage.

    Isn't that something.

    Here is something interesting:

    External locus of control: Dread of failure/manipulation (in the sense noted above)/doormat Primary value: That things go well.


    This new concept is one of those things that changes how we interpret what we see:

    A person with a strong self core cannot be verbally or emotionally abused.

    For us then, the work we do next involves creating and strengthening strong core values.

    Independence; efficacy. Negative emotion to constructive motivation.

    The relationship to the abusive lover, mother, sister will be damaged: only relationship can be emotionally abused.

    For healthy people, only the relationship can be emotionally abused. This concept is mind boggling, to me. It changes everything. This phrase describes internal locus of control at the relationship level.

    There are a thousand other levels where we will be establishing internal locus of control. This is the phrase that will help us see it.

    Abuse and betrayal make it impossible for relationship to thrive.

    I did some research on lying too, this morning. Not lying in a way to tell a falsehood or to gossip or to present a false reality, but lying to ourselves as we have done, in weighting our realities to one side or the other. How did we learn to assess ourselves as we do? Where did that value come from, that we each place on relationships to abusive sisters (and moms too, in my case). Where did we come to believe it was somehow appropriate to pine for relationships to these people who had already harmed us so deeply?

    How did that happen.

    Why do we want them.

    Very nice, Copa and Serenity. Very good for us, to read this.

    Self concept can be changed. Meditation, learning, prayer, exercise; choice to see differently. All these things have to do with core strength; with integrity in the way we are put together. Integrity is how we believe in ourselves. As we are recognizing the toxicity of FOO values, this is occurring naturally. Now that we are here, now the we see it, we can focus and tailor our recoveries.

    That has to do with efficacy, with internal locus of control: Negative events = constructive motivation.

    Self efficacy: Perceived ability to matter; to make a difference.

    This is what our mothers/sisters are messing with. "People with poor emotional regulation skills must rely" on others to assess reality: that is external locus of control. That is where it happens. Right there.

    Sister is upset; sister is crying. Mother is upset; mother is unhappy; mother is enraged; mother is disgusted; mother feels contempt.

    But in healthy people, like we were before our abusers hurt us into little people with external locus of control, only the relationship is damaged.

    If you engage in the exercise, you will recognize the way you focus on what the person needs. There is total devotion of self to changing the person's emotional state.

    We need to establish balance in the way we see.

    Internal, not external, locus of control.


    Last edited: Sep 4, 2015