Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by HeartHurt, Oct 9, 2018.

  1. HeartHurt

    HeartHurt New Member

    First time here and would value some input and suggestions.
    My 80yr old mother has recently moved in with my 35yr old daughter and her family. Doctors said she couldn't live on her own and needed 24hr a day care and is suffering from mild memory loss. Not enough money to hire a nurse, I work full time and live in a tri-level (she can't do stairs) and my Mom can be very needy with me when she isn't like that with anyone else. My daughter does not work and has a bedroom on their main floor with a bathroom across the hall. Her and my son-in-law said they would move her in with them. This was at the beginning of July.

    My daughter has scheduled and taken my mom to doctors appointments, attorneys appointments to change her power of attorney and such without letting anyone know these appointments were scheduled. I asked her why she's not sharing that information and she says "If Grandma wanted you to know she'd tell you". I let it slide and just talked to mom who says she thought she told me.

    Moms birthday is coming up and I wanted to make an appointment for her to get fitted for a wig as a surprise. Sent me daughter a message asking if there were any upcoming appointments. She said, no. I sent her a message and said I was making an appointment for Grandma and would let her know when since it wouldn't conflict with anything. She asked where I was taking her and why I was taking her, this rubbed me the wrong way and I responded with "a surprise for her birthday". She came back with "BS, if that's what it was you'd tell me, you're doing something else and I want to know what. I responded with "like you tell me when she has appointments?" Then it hit the fan.

    She responded by telling me "I don't have to share with you. You opted out of caring for your mother, you made the choice. It's not my job to inform you of what's going when you didn't want the responsibility in the first place. She's in my care now and it's my responsibility to take care of her, so no you don't get to swoop in with your plans because it's not about you. It's not my place nor my job to tell you anything. I don't respect you and am tired of you playing the victim all the time"

    I am absolutely crushed. We discussed the move as a family before anything took place and all was good. Now I'm the bad guy and have been frozen out and belittled by my own daughter
  2. RN0441

    RN0441 100% better than I was but not at 100% yet

    I don't have daughters (unfortunately) but as I was reading this I felt that a lot of information may have been left out.

    First of all I think it is WONDERFUL and very kind that your daughter and her husband took in your mother since you are unable to due to your job and house layout (stairs). I probably would be so thankful for that - that I'd let most anything else go.

    I guess I would not have said anything about the appointments in an accusatory fashion - not that you did but it sounds like you were pretty upset that you did not know all of what was going on.

    Of course, my nature is that way. I don't like conflict or to argue. Sometimes this serves me well and at times I unknowingly let people walk on me but it is what it is. We all have our personality traits.

    No one should have to be the bad guy here. I'd really try to let some time go by so that everyone can calm down and then try to have a civil face to face conversation - maybe over lunch or something between just you and your daughter.

    You obviously both love your mother very much and have her well being at heart so don't let this ugly get in the way of a happy family life. Arguing will do nothing but bring you all down.

    Take the high road. You're the mom.

    Good luck!
  3. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    Are you thinking that she did this to try to control your mothers money, and not in a caring way?

    I am at the age where parents die and there are incredible fights over the money and kids and grands take in the elderly sometimes for ill gotten gains, not out of love. Siblings stop speaking forever. It is NOT that uncommon to turn into a power of the care and money war. What is your daughter like? Would she or her husband do this?

    I think your daughter has some red flags for bad intentions. You know if she could do something like this. I dont know her. But when youngers start digging into monetary matters when an elderly relative has any form of dementia my radar goes off.

    I have never been in a situation where even my horrid family fought over money so I dont know if you can contact eldercare for this or an attorney or if not. And maybe this is not her intention as I dont know her. This may be my cynicism creeping in.

    It sounds suspicious to me though. Yet your daughter HAS been caring for her so I dont know if that gives her rights. Has she treated her well?

    Good luck. Others with more experience will come along. I personally feel your daughter was unecessarily harsh on you. Why does she think you are lying to her??? Another red flag that makes me think she is thinking of the $$$. If Grandma has dementia she isnt going to tell you anything. I doubt Grandma is deliberately keeping secrets from you. But I am sensitive and due to my own bad family very suspicious.

    I do know my two daughters would never speak to me that way. I dont think its normal.
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2018
  4. HeartHurt

    HeartHurt New Member

    Thanks for your response. Yes there is a whole lot more to this conversation than I posted but that would require a novella to print it out. I don't think my daughter has nefarious thoughts in mind, her and her husband are doing very well for themselves and their kids. I'm actually very proud of what they've accomplished. Truth is she looks at my husband and I as uneducated (we sent her to a 4yr college so she's "smart") and trashy. Way she comes across anyway.

    My mother is extremely manipulative and always plays both sides of the coin all the time so I'm sure this is a mitigating factor. What hurts is that my daughter is well aware of this, she's known it her entire life. Now she's attacking me saying I'm belittling my mom, telling her she's alienating me among other things. I did tell my mom she's punishing me very well because she continuously tells me "You didn't want to take care of me or want me". I'm just shocked my daughter would attack me so harshly and tell me she has no respect for me because I'm playing games and playing victim. Which I don't think I am but maybe I need to look harder at that one.
  5. Tired out

    Tired out Active Member

    Honestly, I have to give your daughter the benefit of the doubt. Maybe it is really hard having her grandma live with her BUT she felt it was the right thing to do. If you don't like how she is handling it get a different living situation for yourself and have your mom move in with you If she wants to.
    My hubby's family just went through all of this type of thing and i just kept thanking my sisters and brother in law for handling their dad. It wasn't fun for them but they did it and did it well. My grandmom was a master manipulator and that type of personality doesn't make it easy for anyone. They will lie and play people against each other.

    Why was it a secret that you couldn't tell your daughter you were is for your mom not your daughter,. It sounds to me like you are feeding a fire that is already burning.
    Perhaps your problem is really that you feel guilty that you aren't the one taking care of your mom? Would you like it better if she was in a retirement home?
  6. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    I dont care if your mom manipulates or your daughter has no ulterior motives. Your daughter has no respect or class to talk to you, who put her through college, as if you are trash. None. Or to demean you. Sorry. I have one son who talks to me disrespectually and I recently set strict boundaries on how he can talk to me. Or not. Up to him. My other kids are actually very kind and respectful and would NEVER talk to me that way. And I consider her talk demeaning and uncalled for.

    Your mother isnt making things any better.

    I am one who is done done done with being talked to shabbily. If I were in your shoes, I would find other loved ones and friends to hang around with. I would seek minimal contact in that situation. Just necessary stuff and not much conversing.

    I have, as I said, one child who is not nice and three who are great. My attitute is that I wont come back for more nastiness. Not to anyone. Nobody deserves that. Nobody. Not one of us. Not you. And, yes, your daughter is nasty to not keep you up on what is going on with your mother and talking to you like you are unimportant.

    Yes, it was possibly nice your daughter took in your mother and if you say its not for the money, I believe you. But you couldnt take in your mother due to work circumstances and maybe also your health. You are not young. She has money, is fortunate not to have to work, and has a spouse supporting her. They are young and likely healthy. So she could do it and you could not. If you live alone you have to work. Period. It was not your choice. And nobody should say you had a choice. Its wrong.

    I guess Ive had it up to my eyeballs with people who are supposed to love us but love to put us down more. I dont allow that anymore. From anyone. Your daughter is smart. Even she thinks so. She knows she is treating you as if you are not as good as her and she knows when she is being mean. Or condenscending. She KNOWS it. Many here are very sadly used to this from their kids, but Im not used to that from most of mine. I have one who is like that and three who are horrified by him and dont accept him as he is, so I know the difference between a grown kid being nice and respectful and one who isnt. Big difference . Easy to spot. Most adult kids appreciate their parents and do not talk down to them. Most worry about us as we age. Thats the truth.

    It is up to you how much of that drama you want to put up with. Perhaps just bring or send your mother a birthday gift certificate rather than have to report your whereabouts to your daughter who doesnt believe you anyway. On God's green earth, what does she think you are REALLY going to do???? Rob a bank with your mother??? Ask yourself honestly if you want to deal with this treatment or not? The answer lies with you and only with you. But I dont think you are doing anything wrong at all or are being treated with respect and I will stand by that. I think your daughter is being nasty and I dont know how far gone your mother is....but she is unhelpful if she still knows her own mind. But I do think your mother forgets.

    Love and light! Do not doubt yourself. Dont let anyone make you feel small. You are precious and special.
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2018
  7. HeartHurt

    HeartHurt New Member

  8. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    This poster can not take care of her mother who needs constant attention and I think the last sentence here was uncalled for.

    The fact is, sadly this Mom has dementia and likely will end up in a retirement home and it is not a terrible place for us to put our loved ones when there is no other choice. When we cant care for them 24/7. When we work or are older ourselves. We will see how long this daughter can handle her. It hasnt been long yet and she has children. And she is already bitter a little. "You chose not to do it,Mom." Even when she had no option.

    Let us not judge. I never want my kids or grands to care for me at home if I can no longer care for myself. I would rather go to a home. It is not evil to do not be able to care for an elderly relative who needs the care of an infant...24/7.
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2018
  9. HeartHurt

    HeartHurt New Member

    I’m 55 yrs old and at least 12 yrs away from retirement. I can’t financially quit work, buy another home to accommodate my mother’s needs and go forward. I need to also plan for my own retirement and needs at 80. The plan was to find an assisted living home that worked in her budget and my daughters home was to be the interim. My daughter made the decision to just keep grandma with her since she doesn’t need to work. Side note, when my daughter and son in law were having their 5000 square foot home built 4 yrs ago they offered to build an area to accommodate grandma then and she refused. Now it’s my fault I can’t quit working and sell my home to buy another to accommodate??
  10. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    No, hon. This is not your fault. An elderly grandparent with dementia can be as dangerous to herself and others as a difficult child. And many here can not accomodate or live with their difficult children. We shall see if Daughter can do this long term without hiring full time nurses to watch Mom.

    My dear grandmother was from the Depression era and lived on a dime but stashed money away. When her beloved husband had a stroke, she tried to keep him home. He was thrown into dementia from the stroke and from being a sweet, quiet man who never raised his voice he became belligerant and swore, was combative and ran away. My brokenhearted grandma had to put him in a home, although it was a nice caring home. She was in her 60s and he lived a long time. She visited him but could not live with him or care for him. She didnt work but was not strong enough or healthy enough to care for him.

    You do not need to explain yourself. I think most of us get it. Many try with elderly parents but many also cant do it. You most certainly cant do it if you need to work. And who knows how long your daughter can do it? I hope she can for a long tine .But this is unpredictable and very difficult.

    You are doing what you have to do. What you CAN do. Nobody can honestly say you have a choice.

    Love and light.
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2018
  11. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Your situation really pushes my buttons because all hell broke lose when my mother got ill. I took care of her and my sister wanted no part of it. And she blamed me for everything. She would not talk to my mother nor did she see her for the year as she died. She felt like she was victimized by me. And I was TERRIFIED of her. She is an attorney.

    All hell broke lose in M's family too as his parents became very ill and needed care decisions to be made, and then there is the HOUSE.

    These situations press buttons for everybody. Maybe one family in 20 gets through this intact.

    I agree with RN that graciousness would be optimal. After all your daughter is taking responsibility. But I think daughter could find it in herself to be transparent and to keep you informed. But it sounds like this is not the way things are not handled openly in the family. That is not your daughter's fault and responsibility alone. It sounds like your mother started the dynamic and maybe inherited it too.

    You have choices to make. You could take responsibility now for the whole thing. One hundred percent. Tell the truth to yourself how you feel. When you understand your own part, ask your daughter for forgiveness. Tell her about your gratitude. Find understanding and love in your heart for your mother. Let go of control. And guilt. I think that is what RN is telling you. It is very very hard. But what are your options?

    If there are assets involved and you think that might be THE ISSUE it is another ballgame.

    I am very sorry. I know how hard it is. I wish I could go back and follow my advice. I would have bent over backwards to show kindness to my mother and to my sister going back my whole life. If I could do it now, I would.
  12. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    I agree with SWOT here. I tried to take care of my mother and it almost killed me. If you give more than you have to give that is not right. You owe something to yourself. Your daughter offered and consented to this. She has no right to mistreat you.

    But I would also try to not look for fights. I think you might feel sensitive right now. Better to keep a wide berth, I think. If she is really doing this out of love and responsibility and obligation, she deserves protection and care. That is what I think.
  13. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    Copa...I am so sorry again for what you went through. You were ever so kind and loving. I know you suffered very much.

    This woman has no choice. If I had wanted to care for my abusive mother I would have had no choice either. She HAS to work. And caring for Mom is a full time job. I never would have had the money to tske Mother in and taken care of her, even if she had been the kindest mother on earth. I would not have had the resources to do so. It would have made me very sad but I could not have done it. Even my rich brother and nearby sister could not keep her in their homes for their own reasons, partly work!! I never thought they should have. She was not in her right mind.

    I think this daughter should do the apoligizing for her disrespect of her mother and for boldly accusing her mother of lying about what she was going to do with her mother on her birthday. How nasty is it to say "I dont believe you!" Ick and terrible. Even Bart never said that to me. Thats calling her mother a liar and yet she was telling the truth. Makes me sick! She is treating her mother like garbage. Its not normal. Its mean and cruel.

    Our sons should apologize to us too. (Yeah right). But should we apologize to them for how they treat us? Believe it or not I did this so many times to Bart!!! He wasnt the only one but he was the last one I apologized to him for making him yell at me lol. Yes, it was close to that! Really!

    I was up one very recent night throwing up from his stress. I knew then that this was bad for me...I had to lower the hammer or keep getting sick from these yelling, swearing, screaming, horrid conversations. And they could happen three times a day.

    I remember being by the toilet that night thinking that other people need and love youngest is getting married....i have a granddaughter who lights up my life, my creative, magical daughter ....I have a younger son whose smile fills my world and a husband who has big loving plans for us...I am dearly loved. I cant let my oldest son kill me with stress. He is welcome to talk to me anytime....if he will be kind. No apology needed. Kindness necessary though.

    I dont think we should apologize to those who wrong us. It doesnt accomplish anything and usually leads to even worse treatment from those we apologize to. Apologists and pleasers like us get stepped on. I know for me, I have apoligized to someone who was mean to me for the last time.

    Trust me, I have tried pleading, begging and groveling at it's most pathetic level! You havent lived until you write your VERY abusive mother a love letter telling her that everything between the two of you that went bad was your own fault and she was not at fault for anything and that I just wanted her love. And I was sorry that I was so bad too!! Yes, I wrote this to her and in many ways and more than just one time...nothing melted her icy heart. Wasted apology but also not one that should have been given. I was wrong to have sent it.

    This demeaning of myself, this lie apology, never worked for anyone I tried it on and it ruined my self esteem. When you get aling lovingly with simebody tou really dint find yourself needing to apoligize and when you do it comes from your soul.

    But we all do what we must do. You are very kind

    Love and light!
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2018
  14. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    I agree with you here SWOT. Let me explain what I mean.
    First. I do NOT believe this member should physically take responsibility for her mother's care. Absolutely not.

    What I mean is this: This member has absolutely no control here over what the daughter says, does or thinks. The daughter was out of line. She was taking power in a situation through what M calls acting like a martyr. He cannot stand when I or anybody else feels they have the right to call shots, or tries to manipulate based upon the fact that they allow themselves to be used, or trying to assert victimhood. This daughter is manipulating. She is giving voice to hostilities and pettiness on the basis of her supposed moral high ground. She is trying to shove it to her mother.

    This is wrong and bad. I am in 1000 percent agreement.

    But this is the position I take: This is a family system. The grandmother is described as always having been manipulative. She manipulates power. She seems to set up these conflicts. And even with dementia the character traits of people usually persist. Or get worse. But we cannot hold the mother/grandmother at this point as responsible to the same extent, if she is impaired. The others are.

    So. What I meant about the mother taking responsibility is to take the high road. Which to me is not debasing yourself. It is empowering yourself.

    Your mother, my mother poisoned the well of the sibling relationships of our families. Nobody could rise above it. It is too late for us.

    This mother knows what is going on. She loves her daughter. She does not believe her daughter is acting from meanness or smallness or self-interest. She does not believe her daughter is trying to hurt her grandmother. She recognizes the work and sacrifice and responsibility her child is taking on.

    But this mother feels guilt, I believe. Guilt that she should not feel. And she also feels a loss of legitimate authority with her daughter, that her daughter is running with. WRONG. The daughter consented to this responsibility. She deserves no POWER OR AUTHORITY OR RIGHTEOUSNESS because she took on this task. She chose it. I am channeling M here. She chose it. That's it. Let her do it. And let her take care of the responsibility. End of story.

    The lording over the mother. I agree. That is horrible.

    But the mother can let it go. She can focus on her work. Focus her life. Her responsibilities. And CHOOSE to feel gratitude to her child. And CHOOSE to feel pride in a daughter who has decided to live well, as a decent human being.

    The mother does not have to get into it with the daughter, tit for tat. She has no reason to be defensive when the daughter acts out of line. The daughter IS OUT OF LINE in her mouthiness. And she is out of line because she is concealing things that should be out in the open (the appointments) and she is being snarky and lording it over. But the Mom does NOT have to react. She is the MOM. I think this Mom feels guilt she should not feel. That is my point.

    I am in no way defending the daughter or criticizing the mom. But we can choose not to make family feuds worse. That is my mistake. Because I was so afraid of my sister I made the whole thing worse.

    The only way this daughter will ever apologize is if the mother steps outside of the conflict first. Within the conflict there can be no resolution.
    I have humbled myself to my son many times. And it empowers him, and not in a good way. He begins to believe he is the Emperor of Life. So. I really do get this. I lost my phone which is a good thing because I am always at risk for begging my son to come back and taking total responsibility in a bad way.

    What I meant is this mother take responsibility in a good way. Because she is big enough to do it. By big I mean strong, and good hearted. You and I unfortunately are very alike in that we seem to never feel very big. It is hard to explain. So I will stop here.
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2018
  15. Smithmom

    Smithmom Active Member

    I have no experience with my mother's aging as I backed away from her many years ago. Largely that was because I was ridiculed, bullied, etc all my life. Now she treats my kids like crap. So I want nothing to do with her.

    My bro is responsible for all that. My position is that I keep out of it. He has joint accounts, power of attorney, and anything else. I have no idea. I consider myself well rid of the aggravation. Without her constant comments and presence in my life I actually have a bit of self esteem. What happens to her money I have no idea. I don't even know if he'll call me when she's gone. Think I've grieved so much over my relationship with my mother that I don't even know if I will then.

    What I guess I'm saying is figure out what you want from each of the generations. Your relationships are changing. Adjust your expectations. Your daughter is now becoming the matriarch and you probably can't change that. But is that a bad thing? Do you really want that role? Certainly you want respect from all sides and you're not getting that now. So sit down with your daughter and talk about what each of you wants going forward.
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  16. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    Copa you are so smart and wise. I see how smart you think. Damage control and high ground. I get it. I dont know that I could do it. You are a special lady.

    I was more in Smithsmoms shoes. When my mom passed (and she was quite sick) she had brain cancer but had not acknowledged me for over a decade and she had ignored my kids. It never crossed my mind to take care of her. At all. My siblings did it although from a nursing home. I had mourned her years before. We were no longer connected. I

    Smirhsmom my heart hurts for your very similar situation and I am sorry. I dont even consider myself an unintended part of my FOO. They are not of my soul and heart, any of them except my grandma and dad, both deceased.

    My mom disinherited me. Her last eff you to me for whatever. I expected it. It still smarted. It no longer does.

    I am screwing up the order of this post!!! Sorry but I have had no coffee yet! Apologize if my rambling makes no sense.

    Back to Copa, M is so smart. Yes, daughter is being a martyr but she asked for this. That doesnt mean she is a great or bad person. She is in between. For now she is doing something very nice for her grandmother and she picked the role.

    I dont know if there is or isnt anything in it for her, either financially or emotionally and neither matters. It is what it is, as my Dad said. She was of the RARE circumstance where being in her 30s she not only didnt have to work but obviously didnt want to work and she has a huge house and she can do this. And perhaps her kids are old enough for her to take this on.

    Her daughter, the person who helped THIS daughter be this person who doesnt work in her 30s, can not do the same. But she doesnt deserve to be treated as if she is unimportant in this life. I would not stir the pot or confront her but I would mostly stay away and drop expectations. The daughter to me sounds as if she feels powerful. When people feel empowered they often belittle others. She is perhaps angry that something that is hard to do fell on her shoulders. But she volunteered. She didnt have to. That is no excuse to be mean to anybody.

    This poster is not me and may chose to ride it out in this situation and stay engaged, which is her right and doesnt mean anything bad or just is her choic

    If I were this poster (and I remember that I am not) I would back off. I agree with that. Whoever is at fault and I think it is both but daughter isnt sick....the sweet woman here does not deserve this treatment by one or both.

    Nice adults do what they offer to do do with grace, not haughtiness and abuse. Daughter KNOWS how she is treating her mom.

    I vote go live your lifelthe best you can. Mom is being cared for and there is nothing anyone can do to determine how even our beloved kids and mothers treat us. But we can distance ourselves. We can be good to us.

    Love and light. This is really up to the poster.
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018
  17. Lil

    Lil Well-Known Member

    FWIW, I see the biggest problem here being that grandma and daughter both seem to have gotten it into their heads that HeartHurt just didn't want to take on grandma. Of course that's not true and I DO know how awful that is to hear...and how awful that is for grandma to think. When my elderly father could not care for himself, he moved in with a cousin who is a nurse. I got a two bedroom condo and told him my friend was going to be my roommate. He was devastated. He had somehow gotten it in his head I had told him he could live with me. I lived on a steep hill and he couldn't have even taken walks outside. His health was such he couldn't be alone and I worked from 8 a.m. to sometimes after midnight! I even worked weekends sometimes. I explained that to him, but I think there were times that he still thought I just didn't want him.

    HeartHurt, I know your daughter's disrespect and your mother's remarks have hurt you. But, being defensive and angry will not help this situation. In my opinion - and it's worth what you're paying for it - the thing to do when your mom or daughter says such things is to say what you've said here...

    "I have to work. Mom would be all alone because I can't afford a caregiver and I have to work. Do you think I should quit my job? What would we do to pay the bills? How would I get ready for MY old age if I have no income and use all my retirement now? Mom can't do the stairs in my house. Do you think I should sell my house to buy one she can handle? Even if I DID sell my house...I would still have to work! We discussed this as a family. This wasn't just my choice."

    Maybe your daughter would actually like a break from your mom and that is fueling some of her resentment? Ask her if she needs a break. Tell her it hadn't occurred to you that maybe she's in need of some respite herself. Could you offer take over some of the caretaking? Does your mother have anything she does besides sit around the house? Maybe you could find some senior activities to take her to, where she could socialize? If daughter hasn't historically been nasty to you, maybe there's a reason for it now. Finding out the reason may be key to everyone getting along.
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  18. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Yes. I think you could do it. The issue is defining the problem in such a way as we are not personalizing it. My issue for my sister has always been that her meanness I always take personally when really while I am the recipient, it is really not about me. Her meanness is about her. I am in charge of my own heart and head.

    This is what I mean:
    Lil nails it here. She has stepped outside of the conflict, the nastiness and is defining the problem not as evidence of badness and wrongness but as a symptom of something outside of their personalities. I agree with every word of Lil's post.
  19. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    Oh, I think her post is good. And dear Lil came from a kind family from what she has shared. And if this daughter was always nice before then I agree that it very well could be situational and fixable.

    But this poster says in her first post that her daughter treats her as if she is not as good as her. That to me is a red flag to me as a chronic problem with this daughter that probably cant be so easily fixed and is not new to this difficult journey her daughter took on.

    The more the history of being treated lesser than, the harder it is to fix. Some people dont talk things over well too. I am one of them. I dont like talking things over if they are contentious. I will hide before forcing a verbal fight. I was able to speak my mind more as a kid and young adult than now. Now I get so queasy at the thought that I dont. This is not a good thing. I am just saying that not everyone can comfortably clear the air with a good talkimg it out.

    I think I stopped doing it because when I spoke my feelings they were invalidated. It takes loving and open and accepting people to be able to sit down and resolve conflicts. It is hard for people to hear themselves put in a negative light. They get defensive, if the chemistry is wrong. Even "How can I help you with Mom?" can turn into "Forget it. You cant. You wont. This should be your responsibility, not mine!"

    I am not saying it works this way in all cases but it is hard to put yourself out there to those you love who may come back at you with sharp, angry answers. I cant do it. I admire those who can. Not everyone can remember in the moment that it is not about them. Wish I could.


    Copa about the sisters. I think my sister's issue with me was a lot about her not knowing me well. She attributed my horrid social skills to hurting her on purpose. Sometimes I did try to hurt her after she hurt me. Once I friended all her FB friends knowing that it would drive her nuts after she called me up to yell at me for the type of birthday message I posted to her on her page. I was at a friends house and she could hear my sisters nasty call over something I had no idea would have offended her. It had been a joke and not in bad taste. I still dont really get her wrath over that.

    I admit I still think its a bit funny that I did that passive aggressive thing to get back at her. Most of her friends did friend me and since she cut me off for a long time after that, they stayed my friends for a long time.

    But my sister calling the police on me repeatedly for my sending her an email etc. WAS more about her than me. She wanted control and felt she needed to go extreme to get it. I didnt take the cops too personally because I knew she had big problems to go there and so often, but I didnt want the cops coming over....apologizing, stammering. They knew. Many of the same cops were her victims more than once.

    Even though she was the one who blew the top off of "I will teach you a lesson" I certainly got my digs in. I admit I made mistakes. I personally feel she made more. And bigger ones.

    Under no circumstances could we have ever talked things out because she would have never admitted that the cops were crazy. To the end she tried to pretend that she only called the cops one time. So nothing could have been talked out snd I didnt want to confront her about this. It would have been all about why it was justified calling the cops and I didnt want to hear the crap.

    I am not sure how I got here lol. I guess you bringing up your sister triggered old irratation. I rarely think about her or any of my FOO anymore.

    I guess I started out saying or MEANING that the high ground often means wrongly accepting blame and doesnt always work. I prefer to be quiet and let it be. For me, and ourselves is all we have, this worked the best. For Bart yes we will talk again but not for anyone else. Cant fix what is unfixable. Its like shattered glass sometimes.

    Love and light! Sorry for rambling.
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018
  20. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Yes. This is wrong. We cannot make our kids love us or respect us. But we love them. This mother knows who she is and who she is not. She does not have to react to the pettiness of the daughter. We do not have to make mountains out of molehills. There is nothing in the mother's anger and righteousness that will make this daughter change. Change does not come that way.
    Well. This is how I felt about my sister. That she hurt me on purpose. But the thing is, she did. She would leave the mark of Zorro so that I knew she had been there and done bad things. You see. You are right. My stomach is tightening up here. I agree. We need to not go back there. We are choosing to perpetuate the hurt.
    No. It does not. There is a difference between blame and fault and taking responsibility for yourself.

    I can say *or feel: I know it is all my fault and I deserve blame.

    Or I can say: I understand the situation and I am accepting that it is in the past, but right now is a new present, where I can decide anew. I can take responsibility to do that. To take each new moment as a gift, a present. This has nothing to do with blame or fault. If anybody else wants to blame me or hurt me, it is on them. I do not have to take it on. Or take it in.

    It is not to deny the pain. Or to deny the wrong. It is to accept it as real but not to personalize it and not to continue the war. Revisiting hurts is continuing the war.

    M can be harsh. And opinionated. He hurts me without intending to. And when I react with hurt, he gets defensive and lost and hostile. And then he begins to blame me. And things get worse. We are getting better and better at retreating, and nursing our wounds, and just coming back to center. This happens more and more quickly instead of lasting days.

    I do not think this would be possible with our sisters. I really, really don't. Because when you think about it for each of us, there is no relationship at all anymore. That you describe your sister, there is NOT ONE THING she is doing that is kind and good hearted that comes from a true desire to connect. Nor is my own sister.

    This mother on this thread is NOT in that kind of situation. She is in conversation with her daughter. And the conflict in the main I think is about guilt and maybe a little bit about power. But the mother, can and will right this ship. She has desire to do so and she will.